Worst 5 Moves of Snyder era?

[Paintrain]

The past month has been a tumultuous time for the Redskins faithful with the will he/won't he on the Cutler trade, the rumored infatuation with Mark Sanchez and the potential cost of that move and really just a general sense of uneasiness among us all. It was touched on in another thread that the Sanchez trade/draft could be one of the 5 worst moves in Snyder's ownership reign so it seemed like it could spawn 2 threads of their own- so in this one what are your worst 5 moves of the Dan Snyder era?

Worst 5 (in no particular order)
1. Firing Marty Schottenheimer. I will admit, I hated the Marty-ball era for most of his lone season with the team. It was bland, boring to watch, seemingly way out-dated and I thought he was just in it for the paycheck. What I missed was what his plan was. He wasn't trying to win a season, he was trying to build a team. He had to get buy in, had to get his players, had to get the organization on track and with his plan and Snyder's pockets it could have been amazing. His military style clashed with the defensive leaders, won him no favor in the locker room but given time likely would have produced results for most of this decade. Another coach that was initially hated but eventually saw the results of his program-Tom Coughlin.

2. Hiring Steve Spurrier. Shane Matthews, Danny Wuerffel, Jacquez Green, Reidel Anthony, just the whole damn Gator-Skins era was terrible. If there ever was a time that we needed Charley Casserly (or another GM) to pick the right pieces that was the time. Spurrier was overmatched on the NFL level and it was pretty evident early on. By the end of his 2nd year it was almost merciful for Spurrier to leave. He was tired of the NFL and God knows we were tired of him! The shame is he could have been a successful offensive coordinator with the right GM and right head coach.

3. The offseason championships. Since 2000 the Redskins have earned the reputation-sometimes legitimately, sometimes not-of being champs of the offseason. The worst was 2000 coming off the division title season and bringing in Smith, George, Carrier and Deion but not far behind was the Brandon Lloyd/Adam Archuleta offseason of '05. We can't really fault Snyder for big game hunting but we can clearly blame him for his aim!

4. Hiring Joe Gibbs. I know I am going to get killed for this because of who Gibbs is and what he represents. I also know that I included him in my best 5 list so it's contradictory for him to be in the worst 5 also but hear me out. When Gibbs arrived, we were a mess. We had no clear answer at QB, an OK offensive line, no legitimate depth in the WR corp and only two playmakers (Arrington & Pierce) on defense (not counting Champ because he was leaving). After 4 years of Gibbs, when he left we had no clear answer at QB, an older but still OK offensive line, no legitimate depth in the WR corp and only two playmakers (Landry & Fletcher) on defense. Gibbs had a 4 year plan and sacraficed much of our future to try to reach it. Once he left, we were left with an old, bloated, mediocre roster and not much to restock the cupboard with.

5. Vinny Cerrato. I don't think there is a team executive as reviled by his fan base (now that Millen was fired) as Vinny is with the Redskins. I don't think there is anything tangible that we can specifically point to him and say, 'you did this!' but the problem is his relationship to the owner and the perceived lap dog status it represents. With an owner like Snyder, we need a strong, accomplished GM that he will respect and defer to. Vinny just gives us the sense that even if it's the most moronic football decision, he will reply with-'Well if you think so, Dan.' Cerrato isn't helped by his portrayal in the media, but it's telling that after Marty fired him he didn't get a sniff in any other organization.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

1. Firing Marty Schottenheimer. I will admit, I hated the Marty-ball era for most of his lone season with the team. It was bland, boring to watch, seemingly way out-dated and I thought he was just in it for the paycheck. What I missed was what his plan was. He wasn't trying to win a season, he was trying to build a team. He had to get buy in, had to get his players, had to get the organization on track and with his plan and Snyder's pockets it could have been amazing. His military style clashed with the defensive leaders, won him no favor in the locker room but given time likely would have produced results for most of this decade. Another coach that was initially hated but eventually saw the results of his program-Tom Coughlin.

Mark Schlereth once said that playing against Marty Schottenheimer coached teams were absolute battles; that the next day, the bumps and bruises were harder to deal with than the bumps and bruises that you got from playing other teams.

I still have no doubt that whatever happens with regard to Mark Sanchez, Dan Snyder could trade away this year's entire draft, plus next year's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, and you'd still have the same old people eventually coming around to the defense of this front office no matter what they do.

[SFREDSKIN]

Stubblefield
Deion
Trotter
Spurrier
Pierce

By the way, how many SB's has Marty won and how many has JG? That's ridiculous that you have hiring Gibbs as one of the worst moves. Hiring Gibbs was the best move, it restored integrity.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Stubblefield
Deion
Trotter
Spurrier
Pierce

By the way, how many SB's has Marty won and how many has JG? That's ridiculous that you have hiring Gibbs as one of the worst moves. Hiring Gibbs was the best move, it restored integrity.

Stubblefield was a terrible move but his signing happened in 1998, pre-Danny. Can't blame Danny for that one.

1) Pierce
2) Casserly
3) Gator-skins
4) Archuleta
5) Duckett

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Stubblefield
Deion
Trotter
Spurrier
Pierce

By the way, how many SB's has Marty won and how many has JG? That's ridiculous that you have hiring Gibbs as one of the worst moves. Hiring Gibbs was the best move, it restored integrity.

Yeah I remember the end of that 03 season and the team had just 100% quit on Spurrier. And I also remember the first part of the 01 season when the team wouldn't play for Marty cause he was such a dick. Gibbs 2 made his fair share of mistakes but I've never seen a Gibbs team qiut.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Stubblefield
Deion
Trotter
Spurrier
Pierce

By the way, how many SB's has Marty won and how many has JG? That's ridiculous that you have hiring Gibbs as one of the worst moves. Hiring Gibbs was the best move, it restored integrity.

I completely agree with that, which is why that move is also on my best list but for all the integrity restoring he did, when he left the team was no better than it was when he arrived in many areas.

We didn't have a clear QB picture when he arrived, nor when he left.
We didn't have good WR depth when he arrived, nor when he left.
We didn't have consistent game changers when he arrived, nor when he left.

In many ways, the Gibbs years-since he was on a 4 year plan-set us back a few years because he left us with an old, bloated roster and not much to build with.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I completely agree with that, which is why that move is also on my best list but for all the integrity restoring he did, when he left the team was no better than it was when he arrived in many areas.

We didn't have a clear QB picture when he arrived, nor when he left.
We didn't have good WR depth when he arrived, nor when he left.
We didn't have consistent game changers when he arrived, nor when he left.

In many ways, the Gibbs years-since he was on a 4 year plan-set us back a few years because he left us with an old, bloated roster and not much to build with.

Dude, you're making no sense. You can't have it listed as both a best move and a worst move at the same time, they are mutually exclusive categories. It kind of completely tanks the credibility of your entire list.

[Beemnseven]

-- Showing Brian Mitchell the door.

-- Attempting to weasel out of the contract he signed with Marty to get more control.

-- Firing Marty.

-- All of the boneheaded personnel moves, I've listed them before, no point in rehashing them.

-- Ignoring the model of success of all the championship teams: Recognizing the importance of the draft, and stockpiling as many picks as possible.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Dude, you're making no sense. You can't have it listed as both a best move and a worst move at the same time, they are mutually exclusive categories. It kind of completely tanks the credibility of your entire list.

Here's how it makes sense. Gibbs did all of the intangible things our franchise needed when he came back. He 'restored our integrity' after the Spurrier debacle, he was able to guide us through the Sean Taylor tragedy like probably no other coach could, he put us back in the category of respectability rather than the laughingstock we had become.

For all good that he did, our roster is overall weighted down by his failed agenda to win in 4 years. During his time we traded more picks than any other time in this decade. During his time we acquired more free agents young and old than any other time this decade. During his time we didn't tangibly improve (unquestioned long term starters) at any key positions other than S, RB and TE. See my previous post about the number of question marks that were here when he came in and the same question marks remained when he left.

Clear opportunities were missed badly at 3 key positions. 3 specific moves could have dramatically altered our roster and we'd be in a much different place. For example-
-Acquiring Brunell and not seeing what he had in Ramsey for at least one season. We've seen that Ramsey didn't get it done as an NFL starter, but if Gibbs saw that after the first year he could have acquired Drew Brees as a FA.
-Not letting Pierce go. Obvious miss here, no need to belabor this point. As good as Fletcher is and has been for us, we are in a position THIS YEAR where we are already having to consider his replacement.
-Not letting Smoot go. The domino effect of this one is, to me, the biggest gaffe in the Gibbs era. Smoot leaves which left a void at CB, which we filled with Carlos Rogers. In picking Rogers, we bypassed Shawn Merriman and Demarcus Ware. Both became elite pass rushers and perennial All Pros at a position (pass rusher) that we've been trying to fill for 20 years. Not to mention we have to face Ware twice a year makes it all the more dramatic.

To ignore those facts is ignoring the overall impact of the Gibbs return.

[redskinjim]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Stubblefield
Deion
Trotter
Spurrier
Pierce

By the way, how many SB's has Marty won and how many has JG? That's ridiculous that you have hiring Gibbs as one of the worst moves. Hiring Gibbs was the best move, it restored integrity.

well done but put spurrier first.that was a very embarrasing time to be a redskin when he did the duck qwacking thing on monday night football and they replayed it over and over in slow motion after getting stomped by the giants

[#56fanatic]

#1 - firing Norv in the middle of a possible play off run

#2 - letting Brian Mitchell go to Philly + the D. Sanders signing

#3 - Firing of Marty and re-hiring of My Cousin Vinny

#4 - Trading Champ for Portis - (I love Portis....but honesty someone of Champs ability doesn't come around every year, and really when you think about it, has Portis really put up superior #'s....NO, hasn't come close to rushing titles, doesn't have that break away speed anymore)

#5 - Allowing Antonio Pierce to walk. It took us how many years to get a good replacement, and he will be gone in a year due to age and decline in play. Pierce was a beast, true professional, and worked harder in the film room than anyone on that team and it showed on the field. He was a REDSKIN..

I guess # 5 could be a combination of things, but the overall statement would be " Letting Redskins go for the bigger name and overpaying"

[SmootSmack]

-not doing his research on Spurrier
-not coming to an agreement with Ron Wolf
-Duckett trade
-Letting Bruce Smith and D. Green run things
-Charging for practice

[skinsnut]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

-Charging for practice

I forgot about that one....good one Mr Smack

[celts32]

In my oppinion it all starts at the top so I see the bad personel decisions as the result of the bad front office/coaching decisions so I listed mostly front office moves and only one player move:

1. Firing Marty Schottenheimer- I would really like to list this as 1 through 5.
2. Vinny Cerrato
3. Firing Charley Casserly instead of Norv
4. Hiring Steve Spurrier
5. Trading Champ for Portis

[70Chip]

Removing press credentials from Joe Crisp.