Dawkins Does Denver; Fickle Philly Fans Frustrated

[Schneed10]

This report per CBS 3 here in Philly says Dawkins has agreed in principle with the Denver Broncos.

Important to note that there are conflicting reports, some indicate this is jumping the gun. The major news outlets, like ESPN and SI, have not confirmed this yet.

It was indeed confirmed that Dawkins did at least visit with the Broncos today. And the Broncos did indeed sign Eagles RB Correll Buckhalter.

Reports: Brian Dawkins Expected To Fly The Coup - cbs3.com

[Schneed10]

If this is true, and if I were an Eagles fan, I'd be FURIOUS. It's one thing to cut guys to gain cap space when they're on the downside of their career. But when you're the Eagles, perennially flush with cap space, it's inexcusable to let this guy go. Yeah he's old, he gets burned in coverage, but his leadership and emotional impact on his teammates is invaluable. Not to mention he can still hit like a ton of bricks.

This is the kind of thing that makes me thank the good Lord for Danny. I'd rather have someone who does everything in his power. It's the far better alternative to having a cheapskate ownership like Philly does.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

If this is true, and if I were an Eagles fan, I'd be FURIOUS. It's one thing to cut guys to gain cap space when they're on the downside of their career. But when you're the Eagles, perennially flush with cap space, it's inexcusable to let this guy go. Yeah he's old, he gets burned in coverage, but his leadership and emotional impact on his teammates is invaluable. Not to mention he can still hit like a ton of bricks.

This is the kind of thing that makes me thank the good Lord for Danny. I'd rather have someone who does everything in his power. It's the far better alternative to having a cheapskate ownership like Philly does.

I agree with you on this 100% Schneed.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

If this is true, and if I were an Eagles fan, I'd be FURIOUS. It's one thing to cut guys to gain cap space when they're on the downside of their career. But when you're the Eagles, perennially flush with cap space, it's inexcusable to let this guy go. Yeah he's old, he gets burned in coverage, but his leadership and emotional impact on his teammates is invaluable. Not to mention he can still hit like a ton of bricks.

This is the kind of thing that makes me thank the good Lord for Danny. I'd rather have someone who does everything in his power. It's the far better alternative to having a cheapskate ownership like Philly does.

Let me just say that I agree totally with your first bolded statement. Letting Dawkins walk for what is essentially a 2yr $9M contract with Denver was just dumb.

My argument with CRedskinsRule is that I would take their current FO over our current FO. They win more than we do. Plain and simple. And, as you point out, they are perennially flush with cap space. So if they win more and spend much less, I'd say that makes them better on and off the field.

I don't know if I'd "thank the good Lord for Danny." Sure, he does everything in his power. But he has a history of kidding himself into thinking he's a football mind, and that power you speak of has often turned into foolish big spending.

I would however thank the good Lord for Danny if he gave personnel autonomy AND a blank check to a solid group of football minds and said, "build me a winner the right way."

Again, I apologize to all if I sound pro-Eagle in these posts. I'm just trying to take my fandom out of this and judge the situation based on facts.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Let me just say that I agree totally with your first bolded statement. Letting Dawkins walk for what is essentially a 2yr $9M contract with Denver was just dumb.

My argument with CRedskinsRule is that I would take their current FO over our current FO. They win more than we do. Plain and simple. And, as you point out, they are perennially flush with cap space. So if they win more and spend much less, I'd say that makes them better on and off the field.

I don't know if I'd "thank the good Lord for Danny." Sure, he does everything in his power. But he has a history of kidding himself into thinking he's a football mind, and that power you speak of has often turned into foolish big spending.

I would however thank the good Lord for Danny if he gave personnel autonomy AND a blank check to a solid group of football minds and said, "build me a winner the right way."

Again, I apologize to all if I sound pro-Eagle in these posts. I'm just trying to take my fandom out of this and judge the situation based on facts.

Great points here GMScud

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Let me just say that I agree totally with your first bolded statement. Letting Dawkins walk for what is essentially a 2yr $9M contract with Denver was just dumb.

My argument with CRedskinsRule is that I would take their current FO over our current FO. They win more than we do. Plain and simple. And, as you point out, they are perennially flush with cap space. So if they win more and spend much less, I'd say that makes them better on and off the field.

I don't know if I'd "thank the good Lord for Danny." Sure, he does everything in his power. But he has a history of kidding himself into thinking he's a football mind, and that power you speak of has often turned into foolish big spending.

I would however thank the good Lord for Danny if he gave personnel autonomy AND a blank check to a solid group of football minds and said, "build me a winner the right way."

Again, I apologize to all if I sound pro-Eagle in these posts. I'm just trying to take my fandom out of this and judge the situation based on facts.

Well what the hell you want to do that for?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Let me just say that I agree totally with your first bolded statement. Letting Dawkins walk for what is essentially a 2yr $9M contract with Denver was just dumb.

My argument with CRedskinsRule is that I would take their current FO over our current FO. They win more than we do. Plain and simple. And, as you point out, they are perennially flush with cap space. So if they win more and spend much less, I'd say that makes them better on and off the field.

I don't know if I'd "thank the good Lord for Danny." Sure, he does everything in his power. But he has a history of kidding himself into thinking he's a football mind, and that power you speak of has often turned into foolish big spending.

I would however thank the good Lord for Danny if he gave personnel autonomy AND a blank check to a solid group of football minds and said, "build me a winner the right way."

Again, I apologize to all if I sound pro-Eagle in these posts. I'm just trying to take my fandom out of this and judge the situation based on facts.

The reason the Eagles win more often than we do isn't their front office and their scouting. The reason is the QB. Donovan McNabb is (and has been) a far better QB than anybody we've been put on the field during the past 10 years. Other than that, their front office has not acquired an appreciably greater level of talent than the Redskins have.

Their first round DTs, Bunkley and Patterson are starting to come into their own, but neither has reached the Pro Bowl, and when you're picked that high you should. Their attempts to find a TE worth a darn have been a dismal failure - franchising LJ Smith and giving him top 5 TE money? Their best offensive lineman, Shawn Andrews, has major mental problems and has trouble staying on the field. The rest of the linemen can't drive block to save their lives, and consequently the Eagles can never run the ball successfully on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1. Their linebackers are solid, but underwhelming. Safeties and corners are underwhelming, except for Asante Samuel. And I don't think I need to get into the WRs.

The Eagles have had some success, but so have we. You have to be thrilled with Brian Westbrook in the 3rd round, just like you do with Chris Cooley. Trent Cole has developed into an impact player, just like Mike Sellers. Overall, there is nothing about the non-QB personnel that makes me think the Eagles are better than the 'Skins. And it showed last year, we swept them.

While the Redskins have made boneheaded mistakes in free agency, like Adam Archuleta, the Eagles have made the mistake of doing too little. What's the bigger crime? Having a franchise QB capable of taking you all the way, and doing NOTHING to give him a significant weapon in the passing game, even though your team has both the cash and the cap space to do so? Or shelling out as much money as the cap allows to fill out your team, but missing badly?

See, the thing is, if the Eagles were willing to spend in free agency like the Redskins, combining that with Philly's ability to avoid the blunder on such decisions, and combining that with a franchise QB? You'd have at least one Super Bowl right now, and there's no Eagle fan that doesn't feel that way right now. How can you leave your fans thinking that McNabb's great career was wasted, all because the front office wouldn't sack up and pay a receiver?

I'd rather have Danny and Vinny any day. They'll make mistakes, but at least they'll try. And hell, even a blind squirrel has to find a nut eventually. When McNabb is done in Philly and they have to rely on Kevin Kolb, that team will enter a VERY dark period.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The reason the Eagles win more often than we do isn't their front office and their scouting. The reason is the QB. Donovan McNabb is (and has been) a far better QB than anybody we've been put on the field during the past 10 years. Other than that, their front office has not acquired an appreciably greater level of talent than the Redskins have.

Their first round DTs, Bunkley and Patterson are starting to come into their own, but neither has reached the Pro Bowl, and when you're picked that high you should. Their attempts to find a TE worth a darn have been a dismal failure - franchising LJ Smith and giving him top 5 TE money? Their best offensive lineman, Shawn Andrews, has major mental problems and has trouble staying on the field. The rest of the linemen can't drive block to save their lives, and consequently the Eagles can never run the ball successfully on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1. Their linebackers are solid, but underwhelming. Safeties and corners are underwhelming, except for Asante Samuel. And I don't think I need to get into the WRs.

The Eagles have had some success, but so have we. You have to be thrilled with Brian Westbrook in the 3rd round, just like you do with Chris Cooley. Trent Cole has developed into an impact player, just like Mike Sellers. Overall, there is nothing about the non-QB personnel that makes me think the Eagles are better than the 'Skins. And it showed last year, we swept them.

While the Redskins have made boneheaded mistakes in free agency, like Adam Archuleta, the Eagles have made the mistake of doing too little. What's the bigger crime? Having a franchise QB capable of taking you all the way, and doing NOTHING to give him a significant weapon in the passing game, even though your team has both the cash and the cap space to do so? Or shelling out as much money as the cap allows to fill out your team, but missing badly?

See, the thing is, if the Eagles were willing to spend in free agency like the Redskins, combining that with Philly's ability to avoid the blunder on such decisions, and combining that with a franchise QB? You'd have at least one Super Bowl right now, and there's no Eagle fan that doesn't feel that way right now. How can you leave your fans thinking that McNabb's great career was wasted, all because the front office wouldn't sack up and pay a receiver?

I'd rather have Danny and Vinny any day. They'll make mistakes, but at least they'll try. And hell, even a blind squirrel has to find a nut eventually. When McNabb is done in Philly and they have to rely on Kevin Kolb, that team will enter a VERY dark period.

Yet for some reason Eagles fans keep calling for McNabb's head.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Yet for some reason Eagles fans keep calling for McNabb's head.

Because using the same excuse for 8 years gets old. They've moved on to another argument, misguided as it is.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The reason the Eagles win more often than we do isn't their front office and their scouting. The reason is the QB. Donovan McNabb is (and has been) a far better QB than anybody we've been put on the field during the past 10 years. Other than that, their front office has not acquired an appreciably greater level of talent than the Redskins have.

Their first round DTs, Bunkley and Patterson are starting to come into their own, but neither has reached the Pro Bowl, and when you're picked that high you should. Their attempts to find a TE worth a darn have been a dismal failure - franchising LJ Smith and giving him top 5 TE money? Their best offensive lineman, Shawn Andrews, has major mental problems and has trouble staying on the field. The rest of the linemen can't drive block to save their lives, and consequently the Eagles can never run the ball successfully on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1. Their linebackers are solid, but underwhelming. Safeties and corners are underwhelming, except for Asante Samuel. And I don't think I need to get into the WRs.

The Eagles have had some success, but so have we. You have to be thrilled with Brian Westbrook in the 3rd round, just like you do with Chris Cooley. Trent Cole has developed into an impact player, just like Mike Sellers. Overall, there is nothing about the non-QB personnel that makes me think the Eagles are better than the 'Skins. And it showed last year, we swept them.

While the Redskins have made boneheaded mistakes in free agency, like Adam Archuleta, the Eagles have made the mistake of doing too little. What's the bigger crime? Having a franchise QB capable of taking you all the way, and doing NOTHING to give him a significant weapon in the passing game, even though your team has both the cash and the cap space to do so? Or shelling out as much money as the cap allows to fill out your team, but missing badly?

See, the thing is, if the Eagles were willing to spend in free agency like the Redskins, combining that with Philly's ability to avoid the blunder on such decisions, and combining that with a franchise QB? You'd have at least one Super Bowl right now, and there's no Eagle fan that doesn't feel that way right now. How can you leave your fans thinking that McNabb's great career was wasted, all because the front office wouldn't sack up and pay a receiver?

I'd rather have Danny and Vinny any day. They'll make mistakes, but at least they'll try. And hell, even a blind squirrel has to find a nut eventually. When McNabb is done in Philly and they have to rely on Kevin Kolb, that team will enter a VERY dark period.

So you say the reason they win is McNabb. Ok. They drafted him, didn't they? Bunkley and Patterson, as you say, are coming along very well. They weren't immediate stars, but the Eagles are clearly developing their talents. There's no reason to think they won't be pretty high level starters for years to come. And they drafted both of them.

Shawn Andrews definitely has some mental issues, but there weren't any red flags as far as I know when they drafted him. When his head is in the right place he's a pro-bolwer. You mentioned Trent Cole- they also drafted him in the 5th round and turned him into a stud.

They understand the game is won on the line of scrimmage and they draft accordingly. I hear your point about their struggles running on 3rd/4th and short, but keep in mind when they decide to commit to the run it usually works out really well for them. I think the majority of their struggles in the running game are more a function of how quickly Reid abandons it.

To me it seems like the main leg of your argument against their FO is the lack of a WR. But consider a few things- In the past 5 or so years they've done the following: used two high draft picks on receivers in Reggie Brown and DeSean Jackson. Brown isn't that great and gets hurt a lot, but Jackson looks to be a star in the making. They also signed TO, and he helped take them to a SuperBowl. Of course he imploded, but they still rolled the dice on a huge name for big dollars. Then they gave Kevin Curtis a pretty penny. He's been there 2 seasons. The first he had 1,100 yards and like 80 catches. Last season he was injured half the year. Don't forget they made a huge push for Randy Moss, but he chose NE. My point is they aren't ignoring the position.

They shouldn't have franchised LJ. He's garbage. But Celek looks like a solid young player. Remember he had 2tds in the NFC Championship game this year. Not bad for another 5th round pick.

The fact that Philly hasn't gotten or developed a superstar receiver for McNabb may be a crime. But not having a franchise QB (yes, I think we have one now) for more than a decade while overspending on numerous other positions when we don't have anyone worth a damn to manage the game... That's a huge crime IMO. Brad Johnson is the only exception, and he wasn't a Snyder guy. Snyder did let him walk though, and he went on to win a Super Bowl in Tampa just a few years later.

The Eagles have plenty of homegrown talent on their roster (Westbrook!). We have some great drafted players too, and nowhere have I said our FO stinks in this argument. I just maintain that I would take Philly's over ours.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by GMScud

So you say the reason they win is McNabb. Ok. They drafted him, didn't they? Bunkley and Patterson, as you say, are coming along very well. They weren't immediate stars, but the Eagles are clearly developing their talents. There's no reason to think they won't be pretty high level starters for years to come. And they drafted both of them.

Shawn Andrews definitely has some mental issues, but there weren't any red flags as far as I know when they drafted him. When his head is in the right place he's a pro-bolwer. You mentioned Trent Cole- they also drafted him in the 5th round and turned him into a stud.

They understand the game is won on the line of scrimmage and they draft accordingly. I hear your point about their struggles running on 3rd/4th and short, but keep in mind when they decide to commit to the run it usually works out really well for them. I think the majority of their struggles in the running game are more a function of how quickly Reid abandons it.

To me it seems like the main leg of your argument against their FO is the lack of a WR. But consider a few things- In the past 5 or so years they've done the following: used two high draft picks on receivers in Reggie Brown and DeSean Jackson. Brown isn't that great and gets hurt a lot, but Jackson looks to be a star in the making. They also signed TO, and he helped take them to a SuperBowl. Of course he imploded, but they still rolled the dice on a huge name for big dollars. Then they gave Kevin Curtis a pretty penny. He's been there 2 seasons. The first he had 1,100 yards and like 80 catches. Last season he was injured half the year. Don't forget they made a huge push for Randy Moss, but he chose NE. My point is they aren't ignoring the position.

They shouldn't have franchised LJ. He's garbage. But Celek looks like a solid young player. Remember he had 2tds in the NFC Championship game this year. Not bad for another 5th round pick.

The fact that Philly hasn't gotten or developed a superstar receiver for McNabb may be a crime. But not having a franchise QB (yes, I think we have one now) for more than a decade while overspending on numerous other positions when we don't have anyone worth a damn to manage the game... That's a huge crime IMO. Brad Johnson is the only exception, and he wasn't a Snyder guy. Snyder did let him walk though, and he went on to win a Super Bowl in Tampa just a few years later.

The Eagles have plenty of homegrown talent on their roster (Westbrook!). We have some great drafted players too, and nowhere have I said our FO stinks in this argument. I just maintain that I would take Philly's over ours.

If the Eagles front office is so great, why haven't they won a SB? I know that sounds like a stupid question/statement, but I think in this business the end goal is winning SBs, not just making to the NFC Championship or the playoffs. Multiple playoff appearances sets the expectation of a championship and Eagles have not done so, their chance are running out. Which is why I think your comparison is not fair, given the success of the Eagles as an organization, but their lack of winning it all may be seen as a success. I personally think if they had ponied up money for T.O. they would have won a championship.

I'm sure if this were a Lions website, someone would be probably praising our team for not having losing season and making it to the playoffs. And of course, for us "not having a losing season" is nice but we want to take it to the next level. So yes, the Eagles have a good front office, who knows maybe our team would have multiple playoff appearances, but having just that sets an expectation that if the team doesn't win the big one, it has not succeed.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The reason the Eagles win more often than we do isn't their front office and their scouting. The reason is the QB. Donovan McNabb is (and has been) a far better QB than anybody we've been put on the field during the past 10 years. Other than that, their front office has not acquired an appreciably greater level of talent than the Redskins have.

Their first round DTs, Bunkley and Patterson are starting to come into their own, but neither has reached the Pro Bowl, and when you're picked that high you should. Their attempts to find a TE worth a darn have been a dismal failure - franchising LJ Smith and giving him top 5 TE money? Their best offensive lineman, Shawn Andrews, has major mental problems and has trouble staying on the field. The rest of the linemen can't drive block to save their lives, and consequently the Eagles can never run the ball successfully on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1. Their linebackers are solid, but underwhelming. Safeties and corners are underwhelming, except for Asante Samuel. And I don't think I need to get into the WRs.

The Eagles have had some success, but so have we. You have to be thrilled with Brian Westbrook in the 3rd round, just like you do with Chris Cooley. Trent Cole has developed into an impact player, just like Mike Sellers. Overall, there is nothing about the non-QB personnel that makes me think the Eagles are better than the 'Skins. And it showed last year, we swept them.

While the Redskins have made boneheaded mistakes in free agency, like Adam Archuleta, the Eagles have made the mistake of doing too little. What's the bigger crime? Having a franchise QB capable of taking you all the way, and doing NOTHING to give him a significant weapon in the passing game, even though your team has both the cash and the cap space to do so? Or shelling out as much money as the cap allows to fill out your team, but missing badly?

See, the thing is, if the Eagles were willing to spend in free agency like the Redskins, combining that with Philly's ability to avoid the blunder on such decisions, and combining that with a franchise QB? You'd have at least one Super Bowl right now, and there's no Eagle fan that doesn't feel that way right now. How can you leave your fans thinking that McNabb's great career was wasted, all because the front office wouldn't sack up and pay a receiver?

I'd rather have Danny and Vinny any day. They'll make mistakes, but at least they'll try. And hell, even a blind squirrel has to find a nut eventually. When McNabb is done in Philly and they have to rely on Kevin Kolb, that team will enter a VERY dark period.

Nice analysis. You have to wonder why the Eagles, with all of their space, haven't bought the players that could lead them to a championship. WR's are available year after year in the draft, by trade, etc. You'd think even investing 10 mil a year would be a great return, does the owner really covet that 10 mil more than he would potential returns?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The reason the Eagles win more often than we do isn't their front office and their scouting. The reason is the QB. Donovan McNabb is (and has been) a far better QB than anybody we've been put on the field during the past 10 years. Other than that, their front office has not acquired an appreciably greater level of talent than the Redskins have.

Their first round DTs, Bunkley and Patterson are starting to come into their own, but neither has reached the Pro Bowl, and when you're picked that high you should. Their attempts to find a TE worth a darn have been a dismal failure - franchising LJ Smith and giving him top 5 TE money? Their best offensive lineman, Shawn Andrews, has major mental problems and has trouble staying on the field. The rest of the linemen can't drive block to save their lives, and consequently the Eagles can never run the ball successfully on 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1. Their linebackers are solid, but underwhelming. Safeties and corners are underwhelming, except for Asante Samuel. And I don't think I need to get into the WRs.

The Eagles have had some success, but so have we. You have to be thrilled with Brian Westbrook in the 3rd round, just like you do with Chris Cooley. Trent Cole has developed into an impact player, just like Mike Sellers. Overall, there is nothing about the non-QB personnel that makes me think the Eagles are better than the 'Skins. And it showed last year, we swept them.

While the Redskins have made boneheaded mistakes in free agency, like Adam Archuleta, the Eagles have made the mistake of doing too little. What's the bigger crime? Having a franchise QB capable of taking you all the way, and doing NOTHING to give him a significant weapon in the passing game, even though your team has both the cash and the cap space to do so? Or shelling out as much money as the cap allows to fill out your team, but missing badly?

See, the thing is, if the Eagles were willing to spend in free agency like the Redskins, combining that with Philly's ability to avoid the blunder on such decisions, and combining that with a franchise QB? You'd have at least one Super Bowl right now, and there's no Eagle fan that doesn't feel that way right now. How can you leave your fans thinking that McNabb's great career was wasted, all because the front office wouldn't sack up and pay a receiver?

I'd rather have Danny and Vinny any day. They'll make mistakes, but at least they'll try. And hell, even a blind squirrel has to find a nut eventually. When McNabb is done in Philly and they have to rely on Kevin Kolb, that team will enter a VERY dark period.

You bring up a great point about McNabb being the difference maker between the two organizations. But I have to respectfully disagree. At least somewhat.

In my estimation, Andy Reid has been undoubtedly the difference maker, the glue, the staying power and has been the sole reason the Eagles have been a consistent playoff contender. Even through McNabb's ups and downs and eratic play. Besides, Belichek, no coach has his team consistently prepared more than Andy Reid. I don't want to turn this thread into an Eagles or Reid lovefest, but if we're thinking that the Eagles are done because they let B. Dawks go, which by the way was a dumb ass move, we're in for a rude awakening in the NFC East. This team will compete and play well in 2009.

[JoeRedskin]

Yeah. I posted over in the Free Agent thread: http://www.thewarpath.net/531539-post677.html

It seems like it's pretty much a done deal. Dawkins is apparently flying to Denver as we speak.

And yes, the Eagles' fans are PISSED.

[NYCSkin]

Dawkins' departure from the Eagles is one of the best FA moves for the rest of the NFC East. The Eagles basically lose their heart and soul with this one move...