Understanding the Issues: Education

[SmootSmack]

This was supposed to continue with the theme of anonymously presenting the candidates and asking you to vote on their policies, without sharing which candidate was tied to each policy. However, we are down to just two candidates now. And on this particular issue, Education, I simply couldn’t gather enough solid information on McCain’s stance to outline his beliefs (other than he’s for vouchers).

So with that in mind, below is Obama’s stance on Education. Do you agree with Obama’s plan?
Granted, you may not agree with everything. So let’s say this. If you agree with more than 75% of what he is saying then vote “Yes”, less than 25% vote no. Anywhere in between, abstain and let’s discuss.


• Teacher Service Scholarships: Cover four years of undergraduate or two years of graduate teacher education, including high-quality alternative programs for mid-career recruits in exchange for teaching for at least four years in a high-need field or location.

• Teacher Residency Program: In these programs, individuals completing coursework for teacher certification could serve as apprentices in the classrooms of veteran teachers, as long as they pledged at least three years of service in the sponsoring district.

• Districts will be able to design programs that reward accomplished educators who serve as a mentor to new teachers with a salary increase. Districts can reward teachers who work in underserved places like rural areas and inner cities. And if teachers consistently excel in the classroom, that work can be valued and rewarded as well.

• Make science and math education a national priority

• Supports charter schools; does not support vouchers, focus should be on investing in our public schools

• Standardized tests drain creativity from schools

• Provide funds for states to implement a broader range of assessments that can evaluate higher-order skills, including students’ abilities to use technology, conduct research, engage in scientific investigation, solve problems, present and defend their ideas

• $4,000 college tuition for 100 hours public service/year

• Provide funding to school districts to invest in intervention strategies in middle school - strategies such as personal academic plans, teaching teams, parent involvement, mentoring, intensive reading and math instruction, and extended learning time.

• Double funding for the main federal support for afterschool programs to serve one million more children.

• Supports summer learning opportunities for disadvantaged children through partnerships between local schools and community organizations.

• Supports outreach programs like GEAR UP, TRIO and Upward Bound to encourage more young people from low-income families to consider and prepare for college.

• Streamline the financial aid process by eliminating the current federal financial aid application and enabling families to apply simply by checking a box on their tax form, authorizing their tax information to be used, and eliminating the need for a separate application.

[mredskins]

I voted yes because anything is better then what it is now.

[DynamiteRave]

Hell yes.

If I can get $4,000 for my tuition while only putting forth 100 hours of community service, you damn well better believe I'm on board for that.

That's $4,000 that can stay in my bank account.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Hell yes.

If I can get $4,000 for my tuition while only putting forth 100 hours of community service, you damn well better believe I'm on board for that.

That's $4,000 that can stay in my bank account.

But thats also a new tax that you will be paying your entire life to support.

[mooby]

Yeah, I definitely agree with Obama's stance on education. Part of the reason I didn't go to college out of high school was because I didn't want to pay out the ass for, and I didn't like the options of getting money now to pay for it but then I spend the next 30 years of my life paying it back. But I think you would see a lot of kids doing 100 hours of community service if it meant getting 4 grand for college.

[Schneed10]

I've got a number of issues, and a number of things I like. Overall, I abstained from the vote.

• Teacher Service Scholarships: Cover four years of undergraduate or two years of graduate teacher education, including high-quality alternative programs for mid-career recruits in exchange for teaching for at least four years in a high-need field or location.

Source of funding? That's a big question mark. If you're going to pull the troops home from Iraq, I'd like to see that money go back to the taxpayers, reducing government spending. I don't want to see the Iraq money spent on things like this.

• Districts will be able to design programs that reward accomplished educators who serve as a mentor to new teachers with a salary increase. Districts can reward teachers who work in underserved places like rural areas and inner cities. And if teachers consistently excel in the classroom, that work can be valued and rewarded as well.

How the hell can you measure which teachers "perform well" in the classroom?

• Make science and math education a national priority

I love this idea, we need it. But it's short on details.

• Standardized tests drain creativity from schools

Not sure what this means.

• Provide funds for states to implement a broader range of assessments that can evaluate higher-order skills, including students’ abilities to use technology, conduct research, engage in scientific investigation, solve problems, present and defend their ideas

I like this idea a lot. There are a lot more forms of intelligence than just your traditional reading, writing, and math.

• $4,000 college tuition for 100 hours public service/year

Again, source of funding? American citizens should try actually saving and investing their money for a change.

• Double funding for the main federal support for afterschool programs to serve one million more children.

Parenting should be the answer here, not government funding.

• Streamline the financial aid process by eliminating the current federal financial aid application and enabling families to apply simply by checking a box on their tax form, authorizing their tax information to be used, and eliminating the need for a separate application.

Brilliant idea. This will streamline paperwork and make use of the considerable infrastructure already in place with the IRS. I'm hopeful that there are other politicians who are actually considering improving efficiencies within the government's processes.

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Parenting should be the answer here, not government funding.

I'm guessing that your wife stays at home with your kid(s)? I'm not knocking the stay-at-home mom, but those in that situation tend not to have an understanding of the realities of a family where both parents work. For many families, it's not an option to have a stay at home parent, and after-school care is essential to allowing some parents to provide all of the material necessities for their kids.

Obviously, there is a funding issue, but this is one that I think is critical in today's world.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

I'm guessing that your wife stays at home with your kid(s)? I'm not knocking the stay-at-home mom, but those in that situation tend not to have an understanding of the realities of a family where both parents work. For many families, it's not an option to have a stay at home parent, and after-school care is essential to allowing some parents to provide all of the material necessities for their kids.

Obviously, there is a funding issue, but this is one that I think is critical in today's world.

No, both myself and my wife work. Our one-year old is in daycare.

When I said parenting, it's not a matter of parental oversight and constantly being home to keep them out of trouble. It's a matter of raising your kids right so that by the time they get to be teenagers, they're capable of making the right decisions in compromising situations. Raising them right means more than just bringing them up with good moral compasses, it means making sure they're kept busy with activities throughout childhood so they build a network of friends in multiple activities, making it more likely they'll continue to participate in school athletics, music, dance, school newspaper, science club, anything to keep them busy in their teenage years. Idle hands...

Ideally every family would have the stay at home parent to provide even more support. But I know it's still possible to keep kids on the right track with two working parents.

[onlydarksets]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

No, both myself and my wife work. Our one-year old is in daycare.

When I said parenting, it's not a matter of parental oversight and constantly being home to keep them out of trouble. It's a matter of raising your kids right so that by the time they get to be teenagers, they're capable of making the right decisions in compromising situations. Raising them right means more than just bringing them up with good moral compasses, it means making sure they're kept busy with activities throughout childhood so they build a network of friends in multiple activities, making it more likely they'll continue to participate in school athletics, music, dance, school newspaper, science club, anything to keep them busy in their teenage years. Idle hands...

Ideally every family would have the stay at home parent to provide even more support. But I know it's still possible to keep kids on the right track with two working parents.

Then maybe I'm misunderstanding after-school care - I thought it referred to pre-high school kids. That is, kids whom it is illegal to leave unsupervised (in most states). Is it primarily for kids 14 and over?

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by onlydarksets

Then maybe I'm misunderstanding after-school care - I thought it referred to pre-high school kids. That is, kids whom it is illegal to leave unsupervised (in most states). Is it primarily for kids 14 and over?

Good question. I assumed it was for high-school aged kids, similar to programs run by PAL and YMCA, designed to keep them out of trouble.

If it's for little kids, and both parents work, I'm not sure why parents would need funding for after-care? Seems like two working parents can handle the cost of those programs, they're only a couple hundred a month.

Which of course brings up a whole other issue... single parents. That's a group that needs the after-care help. But I've got a personal moral issue with lending support to single parents when most of them are single parents as a result of their own misjudgments. Of course their kids can't help being born into a shitty situation, so in that sense I can see the logic in helping them. But still, it doesn't taste good because their parents (most, not all) should have to struggle.

(sorry for the opinionated opinion)

[saden1]

Yes, Yes, Yes! One thing I really like about his proposal is that it's incentive based and the good kind of incentives.

[DynamiteRave]

I think the standardized tests thing means that SATs really aren't standardized and varies from community to community. What may mean one thing to community A, may mean something completely different to community B.

(This applies only to the reading/verbal section, because math is universal)

Ergo, schools are limiting itself in teaching because they have to try to teach what correlates to the SAT, thus limiting the creativity within the schools.

I agree with SATs not being standardized but I can't say that I understand how it limits the creativity. Hell, I was just shooting from the hip with that explanation.. But I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

I think the standardized tests thing means that SATs really aren't standardized and varies from community to community. What may mean one thing to community A, may mean something completely different to community B.

(This applies only to the reading/verbal section, because math is universal)

Ergo, schools are limiting itself in teaching because they have to try to teach what correlates to the SAT, thus limiting the creativity within the schools.

I agree with SATs not being standardized but I can't say that I understand how it limits the creativity. Hell, I was just shooting from the hip with that explanation.. But I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying.

Yeah I think I gotcha. You're saying that the SATs force teachers/schools to gear their teaching styles towards the test.

I'm not sure that's a bad thing. I happen to love the SAT and think it's a great measure. It combines good probing questions with the need to perform under pressure (time limit). I think you need a degree of standardization in schools all across the land. After all, all students are headed to the same real world and job market, aren't they?

The SATs are a funny animal though - those who did well on them tend to like them. Those who didn't... not so much.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah I think I gotcha. You're saying that the SATs force teachers/schools to gear their teaching styles towards the test.

I'm not sure that's a bad thing. I happen to love the SAT and think it's a great measure. It combines good probing questions with the need to perform under pressure (time limit). I think you need a degree of standardization in schools all across the land. After all, all students are headed to the same real world and job market, aren't they?

The SATs are a funny animal though - those who did well on them tend to like them. Those who didn't... not so much.

It's definitely a bad thing if you talk to teachers. I had the opportunity to speak with a middle school teacher/principle a few weeks ago and he said they're just training the children to take the test. No critical think necessary. When teachers don't believe in what they are doing how can they possibly do a good job?

SAT is a total different beast, it's a collage aptitude test. Teachers can do some prep-work to prepare students for the test but they don't base their curriculum on the test.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

It's definitely a bad thing if you talk to teachers. I had the opportunity to speak with a middle school teacher/principle a few weeks ago and he said they're just training the children to take the test. No critical think necessary. When teachers don't believe in what they are doing how can they possibly do a good job?

SAT is a total different beast, it's a collage aptitude test. Teachers can do some prep-work to prepare students for the test but they don't base their curriculum on the test.

While I agree teachers get stuck teaching to the test isn't it the basic stuff kids nee to know?