What's The Real Problem?

offiss · 09-12-2006, 09:54 AM

The biggest problem I saw in that game was the lack of talent, and the inability to identify it and correct it. Yes it is true we spend plenty of money and give away plenty of picks for the glorified positions, yet we do nothing for depth and special teams.

For starters can anyone tell me that after 3 years with Gibbs and Cerratto evaluating talent we don't have a kick returner? I have to watch Rock returning kicks, it is true Betts is good in this area but he is also our starter and at this point our primary backup, Rock and Thrash just aren't going to cut it.

Perhaps the most irritating part of our team is our kicking game, obviously Gibbs hasen't been able to figure out that Hall isn't accurate, his leg strength has dimished, and he's usually injured. Frost on the other hand stunk last season and yet is in camp with no real competition to speak of, yes he had a beautiful punt downed at the 3 yard line, but early on it was the same old Frost, his kickoffs aren't anything special, and yes he's kicking off because our kicker can't even do that.

As for our O-line, sorry but Raback and Dockery are weak links, and I do believe thier inability to push defenders has a profound effect on the rest of our O-linemen.

Now for Brunell, what more can be said, same old, if his primary is covered he's running towards the sideline and throwing the ball away, how many times last night did he jump out of the pocket with nobody near him? The guy has a 2 second clock in his head after he sets up, once that alarm sounds in his mind he loses it, he will not stay in the pocket and take a possible hit to deliver the ball, which is not an uncommon trait in an older QB but it wont work, the scouting report on Brunell when we traded for him has proven to be accurate " he is no longer willing to take a hit to complete a pass" that is why he was going to be cut by the Jags to begin with. Will he have his moments this year? Absolutly! But he needs very favorable conditions to be successefull, I say put Campbell in there and let him learn, I don't believe we can afford another year of wait and see with him we need to find out about him now, let Brunell relieve him occasionly if he seems to overwhelmed but I believe we must commit to him now.

As for our inability to stop the Viks on third down I can't help but think that Springs would have made a big difference there, as for Rogers? He's looked horrble so far, pre-season was a precursor to the regular season, everytime there is a ball thrown his way the WR is behind him which is bad enough but if he had the brains to turn around and pick up the ball he still could have possibly made a play, bottom line he's shown no indication this year he will ever be able to remotly cover anyone.

AA, something tells me he ain't covering anyone either, and if that's the case he'll have to learn to tackle without grabbing the facemask.

Didn't think Taylor deserved the roughing penalty, and I thought that even more after I watched the refs put thier flags away on our last drive when Moss took a spear right in the side just as he caught the pass, if that's not leading with your head on a defensless reciever I don't know what is, it certainly wasen't the next play when Brunell overthrough the reciver and after the ball went over his head he recieved a shot to the back of his head, I am really growing tired of the hypcryical calls by these refs!

GTripp0012 · 09-12-2006, 09:58 AM

Hmm. Interesting take, but really it came down to one series. After Frost deadened the ball at the MIN 3, you CANT allow them to get out of their own territory. We controlled the game on offense although a few more points would have been nice.

Hog1 · 09-12-2006, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Hmm. Interesting take, but really it came down to one series. After Frost deadened the ball at the MIN 3, you CANT allow them to get out of their own territory. We controlled the game on offense although a few more points would have been nice.

While I can't accept O's assessment of the game, I don't think we controlled anything. I think we managed to stay with an unspectacular Vikings team. the difference is, they did what they had to do, and we did not. it should not have been close. ESPN innaguration, 9-11 memorial, OUR crib======it was a disgrace

scowan · 09-12-2006, 10:28 AM

Real Problem(s) 1) no turnovers 2) inability to get our D off the field on 3rd downs 3) not able to convert TDs in the Red Zone. 4) bad 3rd down conversion ratio on Offense

Good things 1) no turnovers 2) good field position, Randle El is a big improvement over Antonio Brown 3) Offense looks better than preseason.

What we need next week at Dallas 1) healthier Clinton Portis and a 100 rushing day from him. 2) convert on 3rd down 3) get the D off the field on 3rd down 4) convert in the red zone 5) pressure Bledsoe and get some turnovers.

irish · 09-12-2006, 10:55 AM

The real problem with the redskins in general is a lack of organizational continuity. Constant player and coaching changes, the system du jour being put in every offseason. Nothing is ever built upon, every year is a rebuilding process (in one way or another) and I just dont see consistently successful teams doing things that way. I thought Gibbs was going to bring back organizational consistency but so far that has not been the case.

EXoffender · 09-12-2006, 11:02 AM

You guys love Thrash though. Remember? Gibbs should no longer bank on Hall's veteran status. He can't make FGs over 40yds. Rogers is a keeper. There's no doubt about that.

12thMan · 09-12-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EXoffender

You guys love Thrash though. Remember? Gibbs should no longer bank on Hall's veteran status. He can't make FGs over 40yds. Rogers is a keeper. There's no doubt about that.

Wilbon ripped him a new one in today's Post. I was really steamed about Rogers dancing after the WR for the Vikes dropped the ball.

jsarno · 09-12-2006, 06:56 PM

With all the comments thus far, it's obvious we can not just pick one problem. There were a slew!
This is how I saw it: (in no particular order)
1- Horrible play calling on both sides of the ball. Why did we not try to open up the field by throwing downfield? We have Moss, a burner, Lloyd, the guy that can jump and has the "size", and Randle El to create, yet we never even looked at Lloyd and limited Moss to screens. On the D side, we made the Vikes O line look like all pro's. Partly play calling, partly...
2- No defensive penetration. Brad had all day to throw the ball. The linebackers had no sense of urgency, and the DE's didn't create any opportunities.
3- The 700 page playbook. If Brunell was "wishing the day was over", that lack of confidence will trickle down. Brunell was not that good. If you watched downfield, often times a receiver was open and Brunell never saw him. Brunell looked confused.
4- Poor kicking game. I'm not the type to blame the loss on such a thing, but watching Hall's previous kicks, I was even nervous about him hitting an extra point. He kicks one ugly ball. When Randel El did not get to that first down marker, I knew we lost cause Hall would have missed that field goal 4 out of 5 times.
5- Most importantly, we could not stop the 3rd down conversions!!!!! We let the freakin Vikes run or pass at will on 3rd downs! We were lucky to lose by only 3 thanks to Williamson sucking. He dropped that easy TD on the most perfect pass anyone has seen in years, and, humorously, dropping a pass with the deflection of his helmet!
6- Injuries. The loss of Springs was noticably significant, and we need Portis to run the ball 20 times. I like Betts, but he's no Portis.
7- Why OH WHY don't we use Randel El for kickoffs? If he can punt return, he can kick return. Our KR game is horrendous.

There were some other issues, but those were the biggies.

Monkeydad · 09-12-2006, 11:21 AM

Told you we need a kicker.

skinsguy · 09-12-2006, 11:33 AM

This is just one game. My concerns are certainly of our defense. Hopefully their swish cheese showing last night was just a fluke. I can't really say anything negative about our offense except for not punching it in everytime they got into the Red Zone. This offense has proved that it can move the ball and that we do have some weapons - despite not having Cooley involved alot. We just have to do a better job in the red zone. Brunell did a good job - no turnovers and plays smart. You also can't fault Hall --- he made up for the bulk of our scoring last night. If ARE could have gotten just one more yard...then more than likely Hall would have had a chip shot.

Biggest problem right now is Special Teams (namely Frost) and defense -- oddly enough.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 09-12-2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsguy

This is just one game. My concerns are certainly of our defense. Hopefully their swish cheese showing last night was just a fluke. I can't really say anything negative about our offense except for not punching it in everytime they got into the Red Zone. This offense has proved that it can move the ball and that we do have some weapons - despite not having Cooley involved alot. We just have to do a better job in the red zone. Brunell did a good job - no turnovers and plays smart. You also can't fault Hall --- he made up for the bulk of our scoring last night. If ARE could have gotten just one more yard...then more than likely Hall would have had a chip shot.

Biggest problem right now is Special Teams (namely Frost) and defense -- oddly enough.

The defense allowed 19 points, 86 rushing yards, and 223 passing yards. While not fantastic stats, and though they didn't meet my expectations of them, objectively speaking they were not "Swiss Cheese" or otherwise horrible. I think we've been a little spoiled by Williams' defense the past few years. The did a decent job, even if they couldn't seal the deal.

The offense also played decent, but couldn't seal the deal. Yeah they moved the ball and I was encouraged, but they didn't score 7 points when it counted.

The problem is that we didn't do anything to perfection. Both sides of the ball came up short.

skinsguy · 09-12-2006, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

The defense allowed 19 points, 86 rushing yards, and 223 passing yards. While not fantastic stats, and though they didn't meet my expectations of them, objectively speaking they were not "Swiss Cheese" or otherwise horrible. I think we've been a little spoiled by Williams' defense the past few years. The did a decent job, even if they couldn't seal the deal.

The offense also played decent, but couldn't seal the deal. Yeah they moved the ball and I was encouraged, but they didn't score 7 points when it counted.

The problem is that we didn't do anything to perfection. Both sides of the ball came up short.

I agree that the offense couldn't seal the deal in the red zone, and did mention that, but I don't agree that the defense did their job -- although I will say allowing the Viking's great field position for much of the game didn't help matters. Still, if we were spoiled by great defenses under Williams the past two seasons --- AND considering that any changes we made on defense was supposed to have been upgrades, that leads me to believe that the defense was a dissappointment last night.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 09-12-2006, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Still, if we were spoiled by great defenses under Williams the past two seasons --- AND considering that any changes we made on defense was supposed to have been upgrades, that leads me to believe that the defense was a dissappointment last night.

No question they were a disappointment. I have just been trying to look at things objectively and without reference to our expectations. The defense disappointed us because they were medicore when we expected them to be great. Conversely, the offense encouraged many of us because it was mediocre when we expected it to be sub-par. So, while the defense might have been a disappointment, the units performed at about the same level.

Hog1 · 09-12-2006, 12:43 PM

Brunell did a good job - no turnovers and plays smart!
Can't deny that. Brunell did a good job. I expect him to. He's smart. I wish however, I would see him hit a few more guys in stride. I seems to me almost every reception the reciever is coming back to the ball, having to stop or radically adjust. Kill's yards after catch

freddyg12 · 09-12-2006, 01:21 PM

we never gave the running game a chance to establish tempo on O
the calls were mainly edge plays & we passed a lot on 1st down. I know Saunders likes to keep defenses guessing, but any o line wants to run block 1st & it builds their confidence over the course. vikes ran even when they didn't avg. 3+
I guess its a matter of adjusting to this O, we'll be rusty early on.
On D, we need springs!

09-12-2006, 09:54 AM	#1
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	What's The Real Problem? The biggest problem I saw in that game was the lack of talent, and the inability to identify it and correct it. Yes it is true we spend plenty of money and give away plenty of picks for the glorified positions, yet we do nothing for depth and special teams. For starters can anyone tell me that after 3 years with Gibbs and Cerratto evaluating talent we don't have a kick returner? I have to watch Rock returning kicks, it is true Betts is good in this area but he is also our starter and at this point our primary backup, Rock and Thrash just aren't going to cut it. Perhaps the most irritating part of our team is our kicking game, obviously Gibbs hasen't been able to figure out that Hall isn't accurate, his leg strength has dimished, and he's usually injured. Frost on the other hand stunk last season and yet is in camp with no real competition to speak of, yes he had a beautiful punt downed at the 3 yard line, but early on it was the same old Frost, his kickoffs aren't anything special, and yes he's kicking off because our kicker can't even do that. As for our O-line, sorry but Raback and Dockery are weak links, and I do believe thier inability to push defenders has a profound effect on the rest of our O-linemen. Now for Brunell, what more can be said, same old, if his primary is covered he's running towards the sideline and throwing the ball away, how many times last night did he jump out of the pocket with nobody near him? The guy has a 2 second clock in his head after he sets up, once that alarm sounds in his mind he loses it, he will not stay in the pocket and take a possible hit to deliver the ball, which is not an uncommon trait in an older QB but it wont work, the scouting report on Brunell when we traded for him has proven to be accurate " he is no longer willing to take a hit to complete a pass" that is why he was going to be cut by the Jags to begin with. Will he have his moments this year? Absolutly! But he needs very favorable conditions to be successefull, I say put Campbell in there and let him learn, I don't believe we can afford another year of wait and see with him we need to find out about him now, let Brunell relieve him occasionly if he seems to overwhelmed but I believe we must commit to him now. As for our inability to stop the Viks on third down I can't help but think that Springs would have made a big difference there, as for Rogers? He's looked horrble so far, pre-season was a precursor to the regular season, everytime there is a ball thrown his way the WR is behind him which is bad enough but if he had the brains to turn around and pick up the ball he still could have possibly made a play, bottom line he's shown no indication this year he will ever be able to remotly cover anyone. AA, something tells me he ain't covering anyone either, and if that's the case he'll have to learn to tackle without grabbing the facemask. Didn't think Taylor deserved the roughing penalty, and I thought that even more after I watched the refs put thier flags away on our last drive when Moss took a spear right in the side just as he caught the pass, if that's not leading with your head on a defensless reciever I don't know what is, it certainly wasen't the next play when Brunell overthrough the reciver and after the ball went over his head he recieved a shot to the back of his head, I am really growing tired of the hypcryical calls by these refs!

09-12-2006, 09:58 AM	#2
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Evanston, IL Age: 37 Posts: 15,994	Re: What's The Real Problem? Hmm. Interesting take, but really it came down to one series. After Frost deadened the ball at the MIN 3, you CANT allow them to get out of their own territory. We controlled the game on offense although a few more points would have been nice.

09-12-2006, 10:28 AM	#4
scowan The Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: KY Age: 56 Posts: 1,559	Re: What's The Real Problem? Real Problem(s) 1) no turnovers 2) inability to get our D off the field on 3rd downs 3) not able to convert TDs in the Red Zone. 4) bad 3rd down conversion ratio on Offense Good things 1) no turnovers 2) good field position, Randle El is a big improvement over Antonio Brown 3) Offense looks better than preseason. What we need next week at Dallas 1) healthier Clinton Portis and a 100 rushing day from him. 2) convert on 3rd down 3) get the D off the field on 3rd down 4) convert in the red zone 5) pressure Bledsoe and get some turnovers.

09-12-2006, 10:55 AM	#5
irish Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,575	Re: What's The Real Problem? The real problem with the redskins in general is a lack of organizational continuity. Constant player and coaching changes, the system du jour being put in every offseason. Nothing is ever built upon, every year is a rebuilding process (in one way or another) and I just dont see consistently successful teams doing things that way. I thought Gibbs was going to bring back organizational consistency but so far that has not been the case.

09-12-2006, 11:02 AM	#6
EXoffender The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Norfolk, Va Posts: 1,046	Re: What's The Real Problem? You guys love Thrash though. Remember? Gibbs should no longer bank on Hall's veteran status. He can't make FGs over 40yds. Rogers is a keeper. There's no doubt about that.

09-12-2006, 06:56 PM	#8
jsarno Franchise Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 31 Spooner St. Age: 50 Posts: 9,534	Re: What's The Real Problem? With all the comments thus far, it's obvious we can not just pick one problem. There were a slew! This is how I saw it: (in no particular order) 1- Horrible play calling on both sides of the ball. Why did we not try to open up the field by throwing downfield? We have Moss, a burner, Lloyd, the guy that can jump and has the "size", and Randle El to create, yet we never even looked at Lloyd and limited Moss to screens. On the D side, we made the Vikes O line look like all pro's. Partly play calling, partly... 2- No defensive penetration. Brad had all day to throw the ball. The linebackers had no sense of urgency, and the DE's didn't create any opportunities. 3- The 700 page playbook. If Brunell was "wishing the day was over", that lack of confidence will trickle down. Brunell was not that good. If you watched downfield, often times a receiver was open and Brunell never saw him. Brunell looked confused. 4- Poor kicking game. I'm not the type to blame the loss on such a thing, but watching Hall's previous kicks, I was even nervous about him hitting an extra point. He kicks one ugly ball. When Randel El did not get to that first down marker, I knew we lost cause Hall would have missed that field goal 4 out of 5 times. 5- Most importantly, we could not stop the 3rd down conversions!!!!! We let the freakin Vikes run or pass at will on 3rd downs! We were lucky to lose by only 3 thanks to Williamson sucking. He dropped that easy TD on the most perfect pass anyone has seen in years, and, humorously, dropping a pass with the deflection of his helmet! 6- Injuries. The loss of Springs was noticably significant, and we need Portis to run the ball 20 times. I like Betts, but he's no Portis. 7- Why OH WHY don't we use Randel El for kickoffs? If he can punt return, he can kick return. Our KR game is horrendous. There were some other issues, but those were the biggies. __________________ Zoltan is ZESTY! - courtesy of joeredskin

09-12-2006, 11:21 AM	#9
Monkeydad Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: PA Age: 45 Posts: 17,460	Re: What's The Real Problem? Told you we need a kicker.

09-12-2006, 11:33 AM	#10
skinsguy Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Greensboro, North Carolina Posts: 6,766	Re: What's The Real Problem? This is just one game. My concerns are certainly of our defense. Hopefully their swish cheese showing last night was just a fluke. I can't really say anything negative about our offense except for not punching it in everytime they got into the Red Zone. This offense has proved that it can move the ball and that we do have some weapons - despite not having Cooley involved alot. We just have to do a better job in the red zone. Brunell did a good job - no turnovers and plays smart. You also can't fault Hall --- he made up for the bulk of our scoring last night. If ARE could have gotten just one more yard...then more than likely Hall would have had a chip shot. Biggest problem right now is Special Teams (namely Frost) and defense -- oddly enough. __________________ "Fire Up That Diesel!"

09-12-2006, 12:43 PM	#14
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 10,675	Re: What's The Real Problem? Brunell did a good job - no turnovers and plays smart! Can't deny that. Brunell did a good job. I expect him to. He's smart. I wish however, I would see him hit a few more guys in stride. I seems to me almost every reception the reciever is coming back to the ball, having to stop or radically adjust. Kill's yards after catch __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... *“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs*

09-12-2006, 01:21 PM	#15
freddyg12 Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 4,540	Re: What's The Real Problem? we never gave the running game a chance to establish tempo on O the calls were mainly edge plays & we passed a lot on 1st down. I know Saunders likes to keep defenses guessing, but any o line wants to run block 1st & it builds their confidence over the course. vikes ran even when they didn't avg. 3+ I guess its a matter of adjusting to this O, we'll be rusty early on. On D, we need springs!

What's The Real Problem?

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