Core group to be competitive-Worst case

[Paintrain]

With the CBA mess going on and the rumors that we may have as many as 20 rookies on the roster to get under the cap (which seems absolutely ridiculous to me), who are the players that we HAVE to keep around in order to at least compete in '06? My list (without doing cap calculations, someone smarter than me can tell me if it works) is:
QB-Brunell, Campbell
RB-Portis, Nemo
FB/HB-Cooley, Sellers
TE-?
LT-Samuels
LG-Wilson
C-Rabach
RG-Thomas
RT-Jansen
WR-Moss, Patten
P-Frost
K-?
DE-Daniels
DT-Griffin
DT-Saleva'a
DE-Evans
LB-Clemons
LB-Marshall
LB-Washington
CB-Springs
FS-Taylor
SS-Stoutmire
CB-Rogers
PR/KR-Brown

That's 25 players and with a 45 man roster that assumes the rest would be rookies.. That leaves us with NO veteran depth.. Additions/subtractions/other options?

[jdlea]

I think the thing that could really hurt us, if we went with that group, would be that we would have Nemo backing up Portis, alone. I don't know if I have that much faith in a guy who didn't really see the field this year. I don't think that he can back Portis up by himself. I think we really need Rock or Betts on the roster.

I also think that, if need be, we could get by without Philip Daniels.

[onlydarksets]

I don't think you can be competitive without at least 1-2 veteran backups in the following:
O-line
D-line
LB
Secondary

I don't necessarily fear rotating rookies into the game. I fear 2-3 rookie starters. People are going to get hurt, and we need some vets to back them up.

[Huddle]

It would probably be a mistake to try to be competitive.

I think you'd have to look at it as sacrificing the 2006 season and lop off top-salaried vets who are on the downside of their careers: Brunell, Samuels, Springs, Daniels...keep as much young talent as possible.

[RedskinPete]

Originally Posted by Huddle

It would probably be a mistake to try to be competitive.

I think you'd have to look at it as sacrificing the 2006 season and lop off top-salaried vets who are on the downside of their careers: Brunell, Samuels, Springs, Daniels...keep as much young talent as possible.

hate to say it but I think you are right! Keep the young talent and we will have to let go the older players! Worest case is here so deal with it!

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

With the CBA mess going on and the rumors that we may have as many as 20 rookies on the roster to get under the cap (which seems absolutely ridiculous to me), who are the players that we HAVE to keep around in order to at least compete in '06? My list (without doing cap calculations, someone smarter than me can tell me if it works) is:
QB-Brunell, Campbell
RB-Portis, Nemo
FB/HB-Cooley, Sellers
TE-?
LT-Samuels
LG-Wilson
C-Rabach
RG-Thomas
RT-Jansen
WR-Moss, Patten
P-Frost
K-?
DE-Daniels
DT-Griffin
DT-Saleva'a
DE-Evans
LB-Clemons
LB-Marshall
LB-Washington
CB-Springs
FS-Taylor
SS-Stoutmire
CB-Rogers
PR/KR-Brown

That's 25 players and with a 45 man roster that assumes the rest would be rookies.. That leaves us with NO veteran depth.. Additions/subtractions/other options?

wilson got cut before the season, it'd be doc (or a rookie). evans is gone (FA, can't resign), stoutmire is gone (FA), brown is gone, frost is gone (both are too expensive at their vet mins due to year played).

we also get 7 draftees, so maybe toss doc and replace him with a rookie 2nd rounder, punter has to be a first year guy (koch), we have a 1st year kicker on roster already.

the skins can draft a TE and OG in the 2nd and 3rd, keep doc and get a CB in the 5th (gerrick McPherson)... then see whose left in the 6th for DL or WR depth :/ not the best situation. our DL is going to kinda suck though griffin is good and daniels is okay (if he can be kept).

[Schneed10]

If there is no CBA extension, as appears will be the case, we will enter the final uncapped season.

The following players will NOT be considered potential cuts by the Redskins, because cutting them will cost more than keeping them:

Shawn Springs
Clinton Portis
Mark Brunell
Randy Thomas
Cornelius Griffin
Sean Taylor
Santana Moss
Carlos Rogers
Jason Campbell
Lavar Arrington

Everyone else would get consideration for the axe, because cutting them would represent a savings. For the rest of the roster, here are the players with the potential to get cut, in an order based on my perception of most likely to be cut to the least likely to be cut.

Player - Cap Savings
Matt Bowen - $2 M
Brandon Noble - $1.7 M
Cory Raymer - $1 M
Walt Harris - $2 M
Patrick Ramsey - $1.7 M (assuming trade)
John Hall - $1.2 M
James Thrash - $875 K
Pierson Prioleau - $550 K
David Patten - $650 K
Taylor Jacobs - $100 K
Tom Tupa - $600 K
Mike Sellers - $500 K
Reynaldo Wynn - $400 K
Casey Rabach - $1.1 M
Ladell Betts - $550 K
Manny White - $100 K
Joe Salavea'a - $500 K
Phillip Daniels - $800 K
Lemar Marshall - $400 K
Derrick Dockery - $450 K
Jon Jansen - $800 K
Marcus Washington - $500 K
Chris Samuels - $300 K
Chris Cooley - $200 K

So I'm saying Bowen is the most likely to be cut, and Cooley is the least likely. If I were GM and I had to make cuts, I'd go straight down the list from the top until I got under the cap. Hopefully people restructure enough so that we don't have to go too far down the list.

All the other players on the roster don't have signing bonuses, they just have the league minimum base salaries based on their level of experience. Guys like Ryan Boschetti could be replaced by rookies to save about $100 K apiece.

[bigm29]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

If there is no CBA extension, as appears will be the case, we will enter the final uncapped season.

The following players will NOT be considered potential cuts by the Redskins, because cutting them will cost more than keeping them:

Shawn Springs
Clinton Portis
Mark Brunell
Randy Thomas
Cornelius Griffin
Sean Taylor
Santana Moss
Carlos Rogers
Jason Campbell
Lavar Arrington

Everyone else would get consideration for the axe, because cutting them would represent a savings. For the rest of the roster, here are the players with the potential to get cut, in an order based on my perception of most likely to be cut to the least likely to be cut.

Player - Cap Savings
Matt Bowen - $2 M
Brandon Noble - $1.7 M
Cory Raymer - $1 M
Walt Harris - $2 M
Patrick Ramsey - $1.7 M (assuming trade)
John Hall - $1.2 M
James Thrash - $875 K
Pierson Prioleau - $550 K
David Patten - $650 K
Taylor Jacobs - $100 K
Tom Tupa - $600 K
Mike Sellers - $500 K
Reynaldo Wynn - $400 K
Casey Rabach - $1.1 M
Ladell Betts - $550 K
Manny White - $100 K
Joe Salavea'a - $500 K
Phillip Daniels - $800 K
Lemar Marshall - $400 K
Derrick Dockery - $450 K
Jon Jansen - $800 K
Marcus Washington - $500 K
Chris Samuels - $300 K
Chris Cooley - $200 K

So I'm saying Bowen is the most likely to be cut, and Cooley is the least likely. If I were GM and I had to make cuts, I'd go straight down the list from the top until I got under the cap. Hopefully people restructure enough so that we don't have to go too far down the list.

All the other players on the roster don't have signing bonuses, they just have the league minimum base salaries based on their level of experience. Guys like Ryan Boschetti could be replaced by rookies to save about $100 K apiece.

If all the players on that bottom list were cut it would save us a total of only 18.975 million!

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by bigm29

If all the players on that bottom list were cut it would save us a total of only 18.975 million!

i posted about that too... 34 1st year guys, 13 guys from the 2005 roster and only 47 players on the team this year... IF no one restructures. everyone that helps out now keeps more people on board and they'll probably all get danny love later on for it.

we're lucky gibbs came back. I don't think norv or spurrier could give players the kinda religion about team they need to give money back.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by That Guy

i posted about that too... 34 1st year guys, 13 guys from the 2005 roster and only 47 players on the team this year... IF no one restructures. everyone that helps out now keeps more people on board and they'll probably all get danny love later on for it.

we're lucky gibbs came back. I don't think norv or spurrier could give players the kinda religion about team they need to give money back.

Exactly, that's why I don't feel TOO bad about the lack of cba extension. I posted in another thread the same thought - Danny will give a couple of winks & hopefully he's a man of his word & takes care of some guys in 07. In addition, let's not forget that the grass is only greener in a few towns, like ARizona, Minn. & Cleveland, otherwise the free agent $ ain't lookin too fat in 06. It will be a buyer's market, in many cases players might be advised to pursure contracts that give them an option to hit the market in 07.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Exactly, that's why I don't feel TOO bad about the lack of cba extension. I posted in another thread the same thought - Danny will give a couple of winks & hopefully he's a man of his word & takes care of some guys in 07. In addition, let's not forget that the grass is only greener in a few towns, like ARizona, Minn. & Cleveland, otherwise the free agent $ ain't lookin too fat in 06. It will be a buyer's market, in many cases players might be advised to pursure contracts that give them an option to hit the market in 07.

right, the money in the drafts and FA is going to be terrible... i bet some starters end up as backups or vet min or taking a year off/cfl/etc... everyone wants to have a shot for the 2007 market though.

[That Guy]

lavar would save money cause of the roster bonus he wouldn't get. cutting the filler contracts (vet min guys) would also save nearly 6mill$ in space.

you'd lose money on TJ cause of his replacement cost. no way he goes. same with white and cooley.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by That Guy

lavar would save money cause of the roster bonus he wouldn't get. cutting the filler contracts (vet min guys) would also save nearly 6mill$ in space.

you'd lose money on TJ cause of his replacement cost. no way he goes. same with white and cooley.

On Lavar, the remaining portion of his signing bonus is so great that it outweighs the $6 million roster bonus. If you cut Lavar, his remaining prorated signing bonus will accelerate and hit us with $12.8 million in 2006. Keeping him, even paying him the roster bonus, will result in a hit of only $12 million.

Hopefully they can get that roster bonus down in some sort of restructure.

You're right about TJ, replacing him even with a rookie would be a net hurt to our cap. And White and Cooley are so far down the list that I don't think the Skins would ever have to get that deep in their cuts.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

On Lavar, the remaining portion of his signing bonus is so great that it outweighs the $6 million roster bonus. If you cut Lavar, his remaining prorated signing bonus will accelerate and hit us with $12.8 million in 2006. Keeping him, even paying him the roster bonus, will result in a hit of only $12 million.

Hopefully they can get that roster bonus down in some sort of restructure.

You're right about TJ, replacing him even with a rookie would be a net hurt to our cap. And White and Cooley are so far down the list that I don't think the Skins would ever have to get that deep in their cuts.

white and cooley would both be negative cuts.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by That Guy

white and cooley would both be negative cuts.

You're right, assuming that we're starting from a roster of 53 players. Which would mean we'd have to replace Cooley and White. But we're not, our roster is huge right now because of the chump FAs we signed in January, guys like Lumsden. They're already figured into the salary cap totals being reported by Clayton et al.

It depends which cap number you're working from. Canuck's number nets out the guys on the roster beyond the first 53. So if you're working from that number and trying to get down to $95 million, you're right, you'd have to find replacements for Cooley and White, and include them in the Canuck number. That would make cutting Cooley and White pointless due to your replacement costs.

But if you're starting from the Clayton number (which is a little higher than Canuck's) then the replacements are already on board. And I'm not totally sure, but I think NFL teams have to get their entire roster under the cap, not just the first 53 guys.

Anyway, the point is pretty much moot. Cooley and White would stick around pretty much under any circumstances. They are two of the last guys the Skins would ever want to get rid of.