2004 draft will last 11/2 hours for us this year!

RedskinPete · 03-07-2004, 12:58 AM

With Butler being offered a contract and word is the Rams will not match it there goes our 5th round pick. Now we have just the first round # 5 pick in the draft. So unless we trade down it is a pick and the we can go play golf! So needs are still many like a lineman on the D and O side along with a saftey! So the pick unless we move down is Tommie Harris! I still think we should have goen after more D lineman free agents and picked Winslow! But that looks to not the case!

offiss · 03-07-2004, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedskinPete

With Butler being offered a contract and word is the Rams will not match it there goes our 5th round pick. Now we have just the first round # 5 pick in the draft. So unless we trade down it is a pick and the we can go play golf! So needs are still many like a lineman on the D and O side along with a saftey! So the pick unless we move down is Tommie Harris! I still think we should have goen after more D lineman free agents and picked Winslow! But that looks to not the case!

rest assured we ain't pick'in tommy harris with the #5 pick in the draft, isn't harris the guy who disapeared every time he ran into a high profile tackle? If that happened in college what do think will happen in the pro's?

Paintrain · 03-07-2004, 08:29 AM

Does anyone else get the impression that Gibbs is trying to have his entire team assembled by his first mini-camp (late March)? Think about the potential stroke of genius that would be, they get an additional session since he is a new coach so he can start to implement the offense and defense to everyone 4 months before camp opens! No risk of rookie holdouts, no learning curve, just all veterans who can come in and get the job done.. I don't know who they would trade their 5th pick for if it came to that, maybe (I doubt it) they will trade it to Miami for DE Adewale Ogunleye..

AnonEmouse · 03-07-2004, 08:38 AM

I still go for them dropping down in the draft and getting a good DE with S and TE the other likely picks. I can't see the point trading the #1 pick for 1 player when you can get 2 of not 3 or 4 others with lower picks.

Anyway, Adewale Ogunleye isn't worth giving up the #1 for.

johnnyredskin63 · 03-07-2004, 08:39 AM

you know,i thought the same thing myself.i would be surprised now if he did'nt trade away all of the picks and use the free agent period as our draft this year.if he does'nt trade down or get rid of the 5th pick,i'm sure he'll take
winslow jr.

Daseal · 03-07-2004, 09:34 AM

Yeah, he'll keep the #5, one player won't make that big of a difference. I think we'll take either Taylor or Winslow.

Remember when Gibbs stated that he saw a lot of talent that suprised him on the tapes? I think he was talking about D Line. Everyone assumed McCullough, but I don't think he's going to see the field much this year. Maybe he saw something in our D Line. Really we didn't have a D coordinator worth a damn.

skins009 · 03-07-2004, 10:59 AM

I gues Gibbs needs a new pair of glasses then, bc its hard to know where he saw talent on our d-line.

AnonEmouse · 03-08-2004, 07:43 AM

MY head says they'll trade down, but my heart says Taylor. I remember when we had Alvin Walton - the guy hit like a train. Like Attwater and Lott, that kind of player can make up for a deficiency elsewhere. And if we pick up a DE in FA, then we have less to worry about.

skinsfanthru&thru · 03-08-2004, 08:30 AM

I've noticed almost everyone on this site stating fears about our defense as it stands right now, but correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Greg Williams' defense finish in the top 5 or 10 last year and the only above average players I know about having been on that team were Takeo Spikes, Sam Adams, Lawyer Milloy, and A. Winfield. His system is able to get average players to become above average (for example Aaron Schobel.) Can anyone hear say w/o a shadow of a doubt that Marvin Lewis had better players, with the exception of Bailey, when he was here or Ray Rhodes? This year, for the first time in a long time, we actually have coaches on both offense and defense who know what they are doing. I think we'll be fine once we make a couple veteran additions after the June 1st cut date and although I honestly see us trading down in the draft, one draft idea that I like that hasn't been mentioned as far as I know is to draft Roy Williams of Texas. Can anyone say he wouldn't be an upgrade over if not Gardner atleast Mccants? We could have a Kansas City-like offense and I believe williams can coach up atleast a top 10 defense. How scary and awesome would that be?

Phinehas · 03-08-2004, 09:12 AM

I feel pretty comfortable with the offense. Gardner is the only weak link that I see, but McCants and perhaps even Jacobs could step up and give good production there. However, on the defensive side, I'm still a little concerned about the lack of a pass rush. I know that Williams has talked about both strong and weak-side linebackers providing extra pass-rush capabilities, but I think the defense improves a lot if you also have a DE applying pressure on the QB. So, if it were up to me, I'd look to trade down for mid first and second round picks. Then I'd look to draft Udeze at DE, and then either Sanders or Schweigart at safety. Although neither Sanders or Schweigart is Sean Taylor, both are quality safties. Furthermore, once you put either of them together with Udeze, I think you help out your defense more than just Taylor would.

--Phinehas

beg8878 · 03-08-2004, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfanthru&thru

but correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Greg Williams' defense finish in the top 5 or 10 last year and the only above average players I know about having been on that team were Takeo Spikes, Sam Adams, Lawyer Milloy, and A. Winfield.

Those 4 plus London Fletcher who is a damn good linebacker as well. Williams did a fine job at making that D work, but don't kid yourself...anytime you have 5 "borderline" pro bowlers on the field, it is hard to say that there wasn't an abundance of talent.

skinsfanthru&thru · 03-08-2004, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beg8878

Those 4 plus London Fletcher who is a damn good linebacker as well. Williams did a fine job at making that D work, but don't kid yourself...anytime you have 5 "borderline" pro bowlers on the field, it is hard to say that there wasn't an abundance of talent.

don't we now have 5-6 players with pro bowl possiblities? and he got people I know I had never heard of before getting enormous production like schobel who had 8.5 and 12 sacks the past two years. I'm just saying it's not as bad as a lot of people are making it out to be even though I do hope one of the remaining additions we make is a pass rush specialist. That being said I don't know how anyone would be against us having an offense like KC but with a solid defense as well like a buffalo quietly had last year. I mean if KC could do what they have done without a defense or a solid #1 WR, imagine what could be done with a ramsey/brunell, portis, coles&roy williams&gardner offense and a decent defense led by arrington, smoot, griffin, trotter, and washington. I just think with the very consistent production he's had at texas, R.Williams is the best overall WR with his size, strength, speed, hands, and route running abilities.

I know I'm in the minority hear but I don't think u can go wrong with that pick just like u couldn't with winslow or taylor. we could even trade down and still get him because with all the hype about fitzgerald and Mike Williams entering early, he's become lost in the mix.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 03-09-2004, 12:20 AM

While we've got a lot of talent, the Bills had more last season and they were much more balanced. Great LBs, very good DBs, AND a good line.

Defensewins · 03-08-2004, 10:28 AM

Now that the Redskins have spent almost all of their cap money, and not addressed the safety position, (in my opinion) there is a strong chance they may have tipped their hand that S Taylor will be their pick. Trading down and getting a D-lineman is very tempting, but the fact that there is no legitmate safety backup is a big problem.
Todd Franz and Andre Lott can not be counted on if there were a season ending injury to Ohalete or Bowen. Lott and Franz are situational players at best, they are small pass defenders, they don't scare anyone in run support or laying big hits.
They have addressed all positions but Safety. They already signed DT Griffen, DE Daniels, LB Washington, CB's Springs and CB Butler.
Under Gibbs, the Skins have always had great Safety's : Mark Murphy, Tony Peters, Alvin Walton, Brad Edwards, Danny Copeland, etc.
Ohalete and Bowen are Ok, but the need a talent boost like drafting S Sean Taylor.
Plus see the large number of D-lineman (below) already on the roster. Either way, you can't go wrong with drafting a safety or D-lineman.

DT's:
Cornelis Griffen
Jermaine Haley
Brandon Noble
Reggie McGrew
Cedric Killings

DE's:
Renaldo Wynn
Regan Upshaw
Phillip Daniels
Nic Clemons
Ron Warner
Greg White

joethiesmanfan · 03-08-2004, 10:58 AM

What we gonna do with all these d-linemen? We are not gonna have a defensive line like the panthers. They have weak corners we have strong corners and LB's we cant afford a marquee line and keep the players we have we need good linemen which we have. I dont want to gamble on a D-lineman when we know taylor and winslow will be special. Look at robertson first d-linemen taken in last years draft was a bust. you can get linemen as undrafted free agents but you not gonna find a safety or TE like winslow too often. give Coach Gibbs a couple years to build a championship team we saw a special d-lineman in Kearse but we couldnt afford him (salary cap remember). added winslow a playersthat would cause match up problems for our opponents and taylor would cause match up problems for our opponents. The NFL is about matchups you not running through our line with arrington and washington and trotter and taylor humming down on you. we can pick a lineman up anytime.

03-07-2004, 12:58 AM	#1
RedskinPete The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Camino,Ca Posts: 1,174	2004 draft will last 11/2 hours for us this year! With Butler being offered a contract and word is the Rams will not match it there goes our 5th round pick. Now we have just the first round # 5 pick in the draft. So unless we trade down it is a pick and the we can go play golf! So needs are still many like a lineman on the D and O side along with a saftey! So the pick unless we move down is Tommie Harris! I still think we should have goen after more D lineman free agents and picked Winslow! But that looks to not the case!

03-07-2004, 08:29 AM	#3
Paintrain Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Age: 53 Posts: 5,006	Does anyone else get the impression that Gibbs is trying to have his entire team assembled by his first mini-camp (late March)? Think about the potential stroke of genius that would be, they get an additional session since he is a new coach so he can start to implement the offense and defense to everyone 4 months before camp opens! No risk of rookie holdouts, no learning curve, just all veterans who can come in and get the job done.. I don't know who they would trade their 5th pick for if it came to that, maybe (I doubt it) they will trade it to Miami for DE Adewale Ogunleye..

03-07-2004, 08:38 AM	#4
AnonEmouse The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK Age: 58 Posts: 2,228	I still go for them dropping down in the draft and getting a good DE with S and TE the other likely picks. I can't see the point trading the #1 pick for 1 player when you can get 2 of not 3 or 4 others with lower picks. Anyway, Adewale Ogunleye isn't worth giving up the #1 for.

03-07-2004, 08:39 AM	#5
johnnyredskin63 Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 203	you know,i thought the same thing myself.i would be surprised now if he did'nt trade away all of the picks and use the free agent period as our draft this year.if he does'nt trade down or get rid of the 5th pick,i'm sure he'll take winslow jr. __________________ it's me,bigredskinfan63 bigledzepfan63 "the sea was red and the sky was grey,wondered how tommorow could ever follow today HAIL TO THE REDSKINS always remember ladies and germs-THE COWBOYS SUCK

03-07-2004, 09:34 AM	#6
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	Yeah, he'll keep the #5, one player won't make that big of a difference. I think we'll take either Taylor or Winslow. Remember when Gibbs stated that he saw a lot of talent that suprised him on the tapes? I think he was talking about D Line. Everyone assumed McCullough, but I don't think he's going to see the field much this year. Maybe he saw something in our D Line. Really we didn't have a D coordinator worth a damn.

03-07-2004, 10:59 AM	#7
skins009 Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 528	I gues Gibbs needs a new pair of glasses then, bc its hard to know where he saw talent on our d-line.

03-08-2004, 07:43 AM	#8
AnonEmouse The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: UK Age: 58 Posts: 2,228	MY head says they'll trade down, but my heart says Taylor. I remember when we had Alvin Walton - the guy hit like a train. Like Attwater and Lott, that kind of player can make up for a deficiency elsewhere. And if we pick up a DE in FA, then we have less to worry about.

03-08-2004, 08:30 AM	#9
skinsfanthru&thru Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Age: 43 Posts: 3,812	I've noticed almost everyone on this site stating fears about our defense as it stands right now, but correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Greg Williams' defense finish in the top 5 or 10 last year and the only above average players I know about having been on that team were Takeo Spikes, Sam Adams, Lawyer Milloy, and A. Winfield. His system is able to get average players to become above average (for example Aaron Schobel.) Can anyone hear say w/o a shadow of a doubt that Marvin Lewis had better players, with the exception of Bailey, when he was here or Ray Rhodes? This year, for the first time in a long time, we actually have coaches on both offense and defense who know what they are doing. I think we'll be fine once we make a couple veteran additions after the June 1st cut date and although I honestly see us trading down in the draft, one draft idea that I like that hasn't been mentioned as far as I know is to draft Roy Williams of Texas. Can anyone say he wouldn't be an upgrade over if not Gardner atleast Mccants? We could have a Kansas City-like offense and I believe williams can coach up atleast a top 10 defense. How scary and awesome would that be?

03-08-2004, 09:12 AM	#10
Phinehas Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 106	I feel pretty comfortable with the offense. Gardner is the only weak link that I see, but McCants and perhaps even Jacobs could step up and give good production there. However, on the defensive side, I'm still a little concerned about the lack of a pass rush. I know that Williams has talked about both strong and weak-side linebackers providing extra pass-rush capabilities, but I think the defense improves a lot if you also have a DE applying pressure on the QB. So, if it were up to me, I'd look to trade down for mid first and second round picks. Then I'd look to draft Udeze at DE, and then either Sanders or Schweigart at safety. Although neither Sanders or Schweigart is Sean Taylor, both are quality safties. Furthermore, once you put either of them together with Udeze, I think you help out your defense more than just Taylor would. --Phinehas

03-09-2004, 12:20 AM	#13
Sheriff Gonna Getcha Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 45 Posts: 8,317	While we've got a lot of talent, the Bills had more last season and they were much more balanced. Great LBs, very good DBs, AND a good line.

03-08-2004, 10:28 AM	#14
Defensewins Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 3,742	Now that the Redskins have spent almost all of their cap money, and not addressed the safety position, (in my opinion) there is a strong chance they may have tipped their hand that S Taylor will be their pick. Trading down and getting a D-lineman is very tempting, but the fact that there is no legitmate safety backup is a big problem. Todd Franz and Andre Lott can not be counted on if there were a season ending injury to Ohalete or Bowen. Lott and Franz are situational players at best, they are small pass defenders, they don't scare anyone in run support or laying big hits. They have addressed all positions but Safety. They already signed DT Griffen, DE Daniels, LB Washington, CB's Springs and CB Butler. Under Gibbs, the Skins have always had great Safety's : Mark Murphy, Tony Peters, Alvin Walton, Brad Edwards, Danny Copeland, etc. Ohalete and Bowen are Ok, but the need a talent boost like drafting S Sean Taylor. Plus see the large number of D-lineman (below) already on the roster. Either way, you can't go wrong with drafting a safety or D-lineman. DT's: Cornelis Griffen Jermaine Haley Brandon Noble Reggie McGrew Cedric Killings DE's: Renaldo Wynn Regan Upshaw Phillip Daniels Nic Clemons Ron Warner Greg White

03-08-2004, 10:58 AM	#15
joethiesmanfan The Starter Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 1,163	What we gonna do with all these d-linemen? We are not gonna have a defensive line like the panthers. They have weak corners we have strong corners and LB's we cant afford a marquee line and keep the players we have we need good linemen which we have. I dont want to gamble on a D-lineman when we know taylor and winslow will be special. Look at robertson first d-linemen taken in last years draft was a bust. you can get linemen as undrafted free agents but you not gonna find a safety or TE like winslow too often. give Coach Gibbs a couple years to build a championship team we saw a special d-lineman in Kearse but we couldnt afford him (salary cap remember). added winslow a playersthat would cause match up problems for our opponents and taylor would cause match up problems for our opponents. The NFL is about matchups you not running through our line with arrington and washington and trotter and taylor humming down on you. we can pick a lineman up anytime.

2004 draft will last 11/2 hours for us this year!

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