Sally J.'s latest is spot on

[freddyg12]

Searched elsewhere for this on the wp & almost put it in an existing thread ("Lavar's twitter" led to discussion of our owner).

But I felt it was such a strong & well written article that it had to stand alone. I know a lot of us have been unhappy w/Sally Jenkins over the years, but based on my limited knowledge as only a fan, I really find it hard to disagree w/most of what she says. I've always felt the biggest difference between JJ & DS was that Jerry is at least accessible to the public & makes himself somewhat accountable.

Here's the link:

washingtonpost.com

[MonkFan4Life]

Now what i don't understand is how can people ask for Danny to get out of the spotlight but then complain when he does exactly that ? The whole shaking of the hands thing is kinda blow but I mean if you want the guy to stay in the shadows why ask for him to come out.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

Now what i don't understand is how can people ask for Danny to get out of the spotlight but then complain when he does exactly that ? The whole shaking of the hands thing is kinda blow but I mean if you want the guy to stay in the shadows why ask for him to come out.

I think that's what you're misinterpreting from the article; she (and others) are not saying DS should "get out of the spotlight" because he's not in it. Rather, he's behind the scenes & very involved in the team's direction. For someone w/that much involvement & impact (of course, he is the owner), he does little to nothing in conveying a sense of responsibility to the public. Instead, he lets others take the blame, even though he may be the greatest source of the problems.

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

I think that's what you're misinterpreting from the article; she (and others) are not saying DS should "get out of the spotlight" because he's not in it. Rather, he's behind the scenes & very involved in the team's direction. For someone w/that much involvement & impact (of course, he is the owner), he does little to nothing in conveying a sense of responsibility to the public. Instead, he lets others take the blame, even though he may be the greatest source of the problems.

That is what happens when you have all the money!

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

Now what i don't understand is how can people ask for Danny to get out of the spotlight but then complain when he does exactly that ? The whole shaking of the hands thing is kinda blow but I mean if you want the guy to stay in the shadows why ask for him to come out.

He has never been in the spotlight. I think people want him out of the football decision making which he has refused to do minus the Marty year.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

Now what i don't understand is how can people ask for Danny to get out of the spotlight but then complain when he does exactly that ? The whole shaking of the hands thing is kinda blow but I mean if you want the guy to stay in the shadows why ask for him to come out.

If you're going to run the team, make yourself accessible

It's fine to stay in the shadows if you're just signing checks

[MrSpectre]

S.S. -- I think you're protesting too much.

All I'm saying is that any team's fans may have a reasonable expectation that an owner who doesn't know jack about football should leave the football side of his operation to professionals. He should exercise a little humility. He should hire a general manager with a proven track record, give him five years to succeed, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Synder doesn't get this, because he sees the Redskins as his toy, and, by God, he'll play with it whenever he wants to. Fun for him, possibly, but a raised middle finger towards everyone else.

So we've been treated to a series of idiosyncratic signings based on Danny's judgment, e.g., Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, the Old Ball Coach, and now Jim Zorn, DeAngelo Hall, the great wide receiver drafts of 2008, and probably Dana Stubblefield again in Albert Haynesworth.

Vinny Cerrato may have a good track record elsewhere, but in Washington, he hasn't done what a competent G.M. would have done, i.e., draft for depth on the offensive and defensive lines first, and build around that. Why hasn't he done that? Think what you want, but I think it has to do with the need for anyone on the Redskin payroll to humor Danny, which has meant surrender draft picks for high-priced free agents, or follow Danny's draft "strategy."

Sammy, it's unfair to cite the overall record of mediocrity since 1972. Sustained mediocrity set in only after Joe Gibbs left for the first time and JKC died. Snyder's advent has made things worse. Three playoff appearances and one playoff victory in twelve years amount to very little and shouldn't be excused. There's a real, fundamental problem with how this organization is run. I think it's the owner and his lack of a coherent FOOTBALL plan.

I will support a losing team for years if the organization has a plan for trying to get better, if it trusts professionals to develop such a plan, if it hires and fires players with a long-term strategy in mind. I support the Caps, Wizards, and Nationals, who are doing these things. Snyder isn't. I think he has to go before things get better. Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

S.S. -- I think you're protesting too much.

All I'm saying is that any team's fans may have a reasonable expectation that an owner who doesn't know jack about football should leave the football side of his operation to professionals. He should exercise a little humility. He should hire a general manager with a proven track record, give him five years to succeed, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Synder doesn't get this, because he sees the Redskins as his toy, and, by God, he'll play with it whenever he wants to. Fun for him, possibly, but a raised middle finger towards everyone else.

So we've been treated to a series of idiosyncratic signings based on Danny's judgment, e.g., Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, the Old Ball Coach, and now Jim Zorn, DeAngelo Hall, the great wide receiver drafts of 2008, and probably Dana Stubblefield again in Albert Haynesworth.

Vinny Cerrato may have a good track record elsewhere, but in Washington, he hasn't done what a competent G.M. would have done, i.e., draft for depth on the offensive and defensive lines first, and build around that. Why hasn't he done that? Think what you want, but I think it has to do with the need for anyone on the Redskin payroll to humor Danny, which has meant surrender draft picks for high-priced free agents, or follow Danny's draft "strategy."

Sammy, it's unfair to cite the overall record of mediocrity since 1972. Sustained mediocrity set in only after Joe Gibbs left for the first time and JKC died. Snyder's advent has made things worse. Three playoff appearances and one playoff victory in twelve years amount to very little and shouldn't be excused. There's a real, fundamental problem with how this organization is run. I think it's the owner and his lack of a coherent FOOTBALL plan.

I will support a losing team for years if the organization has a plan for trying to get better, if it trusts professionals to develop such a plan, if it hires and fires players with a long-term strategy in mind. I support the Caps, Wizards, and Nationals, who are doing these things. Snyder isn't. I think he has to go before things get better. Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS!

:vomit:

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS!

Good luck with that. Remember, don't be a fan of the Skins again when things turn around under Snyder.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

S.S. -- I think you're protesting too much.

All I'm saying is that any team's fans may have a reasonable expectation that an owner who doesn't know jack about football should leave the football side of his operation to professionals. He should exercise a little humility. He should hire a general manager with a proven track record, give him five years to succeed, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Synder doesn't get this, because he sees the Redskins as his toy, and, by God, he'll play with it whenever he wants to. Fun for him, possibly, but a raised middle finger towards everyone else.

So we've been treated to a series of idiosyncratic signings based on Danny's judgment, e.g., Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, the Old Ball Coach, and now Jim Zorn, DeAngelo Hall, the great wide receiver drafts of 2008, and probably Dana Stubblefield again in Albert Haynesworth.

Vinny Cerrato may have a good track record elsewhere, but in Washington, he hasn't done what a competent G.M. would have done, i.e., draft for depth on the offensive and defensive lines first, and build around that. Why hasn't he done that? Think what you want, but I think it has to do with the need for anyone on the Redskin payroll to humor Danny, which has meant surrender draft picks for high-priced free agents, or follow Danny's draft "strategy."

Sammy, it's unfair to cite the overall record of mediocrity since 1972. Sustained mediocrity set in only after Joe Gibbs left for the first time and JKC died. Snyder's advent has made things worse. Three playoff appearances and one playoff victory in twelve years amount to very little and shouldn't be excused. There's a real, fundamental problem with how this organization is run. I think it's the owner and his lack of a coherent FOOTBALL plan.

I will support a losing team for years if the organization has a plan for trying to get better, if it trusts professionals to develop such a plan, if it hires and fires players with a long-term strategy in mind. I support the Caps, Wizards, and Nationals, who are doing these things. Snyder isn't. I think he has to go before things get better. Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS!

Fine, Mr. Bandwagon. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

S.S. -- I think you're protesting too much.

All I'm saying is that any team's fans may have a reasonable expectation that an owner who doesn't know jack about football should leave the football side of his operation to professionals. He should exercise a little humility. He should hire a general manager with a proven track record, give him five years to succeed, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Synder doesn't get this, because he sees the Redskins as his toy, and, by God, he'll play with it whenever he wants to. Fun for him, possibly, but a raised middle finger towards everyone else.

So we've been treated to a series of idiosyncratic signings based on Danny's judgment, e.g., Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, the Old Ball Coach, and now Jim Zorn, DeAngelo Hall, the great wide receiver drafts of 2008, and probably Dana Stubblefield again in Albert Haynesworth.

Vinny Cerrato may have a good track record elsewhere, but in Washington, he hasn't done what a competent G.M. would have done, i.e., draft for depth on the offensive and defensive lines first, and build around that. Why hasn't he done that? Think what you want, but I think it has to do with the need for anyone on the Redskin payroll to humor Danny, which has meant surrender draft picks for high-priced free agents, or follow Danny's draft "strategy."

Sammy, it's unfair to cite the overall record of mediocrity since 1972. Sustained mediocrity set in only after Joe Gibbs left for the first time and JKC died. Snyder's advent has made things worse. Three playoff appearances and one playoff victory in twelve years amount to very little and shouldn't be excused. There's a real, fundamental problem with how this organization is run. I think it's the owner and his lack of a coherent FOOTBALL plan.

I will support a losing team for years if the organization has a plan for trying to get better, if it trusts professionals to develop such a plan, if it hires and fires players with a long-term strategy in mind. I support the Caps, Wizards, and Nationals, who are doing these things. Snyder isn't. I think he has to go before things get better. Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS!

I'm sorry and I REALLY tried to be objective when reading that, but seriously, that just sounds absolutely stupid. So basically by your logic, you're rooting for the Steeler's management? Who gives a crap about the players or the coaches, it's the owner that I root for? Not only that, why not the Patriots? Why not any other team that looks like it "has" a plan? Is it because the Steelers won the Super Bowl last year?

Honestly, if you say that the ultimate goal of the NFL is the win the Super Bowl, then you might say the Steelers along with a lot of other teams over that span have been mired in mediocrity playoff-wise. The Patriots are really the only team who seem to fit your "bill". It's easy to be like, "Awesome! We won again." But in my opinion it would be ALMOST as maddening to be a fan of the Chargers or the Colts. While both are consistently good, they both don't do well in the playoffs (with the exception of the Colts Super Bowl year).

Your argument just sounds ridiculous. It's like you just want to be a front-runner like every other half-hearted Skins fan.

I might not be speaking for the entire fan base, but believe me when I say that we will NOT miss you at all.

[MrSpectre]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I'm sorry and I REALLY tried to be objective when reading that, but seriously, that just sounds absolutely stupid. So basically by your logic, you're rooting for the Steeler's management? Who gives a crap about the players or the coaches, it's the owner that I root for? Not only that, why not the Patriots? Why not any other team that looks like it "has" a plan? Is it because the Steelers won the Super Bowl last year?

Honestly, if you say that the ultimate goal of the NFL is the win the Super Bowl, then you might say the Steelers along with a lot of other teams over that span have been mired in mediocrity playoff-wise. The Patriots are really the only team who seem to fit your "bill". It's easy to be like, "Awesome! We won again." But in my opinion it would be ALMOST as maddening to be a fan of the Chargers or the Colts. While both are consistently good, they both don't do well in the playoffs (with the exception of the Colts Super Bowl year).

Your argument just sounds ridiculous. It's like you just want to be a front-runner like every other half-hearted Skins fan.

I might not be speaking for the entire fan base, but believe me when I say that we will NOT miss you at all.

No, Malcolm, I'm not rooting for the Steelers' management. Let me try again.

The Steelers have had three coaches over the last thirty-eight years. They've had a consistent policy of building through the draft with a concentration on offensive and defensive lines, then skill offensive players, linebackers, and defensive backs. They usually have winning seasons. When they don't, they don't panic and lunge after some savior free agent, wasting multiple draft picks in the process. Over time, that builds team cohesiveness, or, if you like, a positive culture. Management, players, and fans are on the same page, working together. They aren't at the mercy of a single megalomaniac and his pet toady.

To call for this kind of management is not being a "front-runner." As I said, I support the Nationals. But too many Redskins' fans seem to be the kind of idiots who, finding themselves in a deep hole, just keep digging.

Sorry if any of the words were too long for you.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by MrSpectre

S.S. -- I think you're protesting too much.

All I'm saying is that any team's fans may have a reasonable expectation that an owner who doesn't know jack about football should leave the football side of his operation to professionals. He should exercise a little humility. He should hire a general manager with a proven track record, give him five years to succeed, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Synder doesn't get this, because he sees the Redskins as his toy, and, by God, he'll play with it whenever he wants to. Fun for him, possibly, but a raised middle finger towards everyone else.

So we've been treated to a series of idiosyncratic signings based on Danny's judgment, e.g., Deion Sanders, Dana Stubblefield, the Old Ball Coach, and now Jim Zorn, DeAngelo Hall, the great wide receiver drafts of 2008, and probably Dana Stubblefield again in Albert Haynesworth.

Vinny Cerrato may have a good track record elsewhere, but in Washington, he hasn't done what a competent G.M. would have done, i.e., draft for depth on the offensive and defensive lines first, and build around that. Why hasn't he done that? Think what you want, but I think it has to do with the need for anyone on the Redskin payroll to humor Danny, which has meant surrender draft picks for high-priced free agents, or follow Danny's draft "strategy."

Sammy, it's unfair to cite the overall record of mediocrity since 1972. Sustained mediocrity set in only after Joe Gibbs left for the first time and JKC died. Snyder's advent has made things worse. Three playoff appearances and one playoff victory in twelve years amount to very little and shouldn't be excused. There's a real, fundamental problem with how this organization is run. I think it's the owner and his lack of a coherent FOOTBALL plan.

I will support a losing team for years if the organization has a plan for trying to get better, if it trusts professionals to develop such a plan, if it hires and fires players with a long-term strategy in mind. I support the Caps, Wizards, and Nationals, who are doing these things. Snyder isn't. I think he has to go before things get better. Meanwhile, for me, it's GO STEELERS!

Dude, you wasted all of that space to say go Steelers?

FAIL

[MonkFan4Life]

Well just say that he really isn't meddling now. We know that he did before but if he's allowing Vinny to run things, and allowing the coaches to do what they want to do why blame him ? Or is it because we cannot believe anything that the man says because that is the go to excuse/reason for things going bad here ? Because in all honesty, if he meddled as much as everyone said that he did don't you think that we would have Sanchez ? Would Jason even be in the starting lineup ? So many things would be different if Snyder was the meddler that he is made out to be IMO. And his responsibility to the public. Really ? Do you think that he doesn't want to put out a winning product on the field ?

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by MonkFan4Life

Well just say that he really isn't meddling now. We know that he did before but if he's allowing Vinny to run things, and allowing the coaches to do what they want to do why blame him ? Or is it because we cannot believe anything that the man says because that is the go to excuse/reason for things going bad here ? Because in all honesty, if he meddled as much as everyone said that he did don't you think that we would have Sanchez ? Would Jason even be in the starting lineup ? So many things would be different if Snyder was the meddler that he is made out to be IMO. And his responsibility to the public. Really ? Do you think that he doesn't want to put out a winning product on the field ?

These are good questions, and I doubt any of us honestly knows the answers. But the issue of the questions could also be posed a different way; was Snyder the only one behind the attempt at getting Sanchez? i.e. did vinny & zorn have any weight in the matter? Much of the reason he couldn't land him was he didn't have much to offer. JC might be the starter in spite of Snyder, but that doesn't mean DS didn't try hard to find his replacement.

This really isn't about "meddling" per se, it's about leadership & management style. To sum it up, is Snyder effective in this regard? I think there is evidence to say, no he isn't. He is obviously a good ceo in terms of increasing the value of his company, but not in building a winning team.