O-Line and ST questions

[aprius]

Why havent we gone after Scott Gragg or Ross Verba?
Gragg is a very good backup and Verba is an excellent starter at Tackle.
I think the 35 million request was bogus... He just wanted to get out of Cleveland....wouldnt you? Not exactly a winter wonderland at -40F.

Why dont we renegotiate ST's contract to pay for any additions?
Heck, you could void it on a morality clause or insubordination or a thousand other reasons.
ST and Drew know that and are probably shaking in their boots about that.
I dont have a good feeling about the trial.
I think he will get probation.
I think he will not be playing this year in any uniform.

I hope they write into all contracts that players are not allowed to use or own guns or lethal weapons.
Guns and knives keep getting players into trouble.
They should also write into every contract that it is void if the player is CHARGED with a felony (not convicted), DUI or possession of drugs and all signing bonuses must be returned.
The following contract should be for the league minimum for 5 years.
These kids would be forced to take the high road then and become adults.
They would be forced to make better judgements.

[MTK]

First off it's very unlikely any sort of decision will come on Taylor during the season. Most reports are saying he's safe for the 2005 season.

In regard to the offensive line, if the staff felt they needed help, I think they would have gone after some help. They made one key addition in Rabach, and I'm guessing they feel pretty good about everyone else.

[aprius]

I get scared about our lack of depth and having Dockery as a starter.
Dockery was awful last year.
Buges does have a way of developing players though.
I just hope our kids who are backing up the line develop in to something great and that Friedman and Raymer are cut because of lack of talent. I could smell how bad they stunk out here in Frisco....3000 miles away.
ST's trial begins the day after the season starts and will end a few weeks after that, at the most, and he will not play during that time.
Then when it is over he will not play the rest of the season due to suspension or jail is my feeling.

[MTK]

I would argue that Dockery was far from awful. He's still green but we could do alot worse.

I wouldn't say our depth is so bad. We have Ray Brown, Friedman (I think Raymer will get the axe), Molinaro and Wilson.

[aprius]

But you must admit Dockery played badly in comparison with his first year.
He has so much promise and I pray that was a soph slump not a harbinger of things to come.

[aprius]

I hope what you say is true about ST playing this year. We need him alot.

[MTK]

Personally I thought Dockery was much improved over his rookie season.

[gortiz]

Dock was anything but awful! He wasn't spectacular, but I think serviceable. I mean, not many people can make very good calls on the ability of lineman because you don't hear about them when they are doing good. . .I didn't hear much about Dock last season.

I'm starting to think that this last Taylor incident is going to be just one speed bump on a long and troubled life for this dude. I'm not saying he is not going to have a good career, he already is in fact good, but man, he is a thug. Wait till he gets married, screws that up, crashes cars, and I'm calling this now, he is going to get into a fight with a teamate, then not pay taxes, maybe some kind of substance abuse...Sorry, I know this a crappy thread, but I'm feeling it. At this age, his resume is longer than so many players. His balls must be dragging on the floor to hold out after his rookie year and not call Gibbs?? Hang on boys and girls!

[heybigstar]

Originally Posted by gortiz

Dock was anything but awful! He wasn't spectacular, but I think serviceable. I mean, not many people can make very good calls on the ability of lineman because you don't hear about them when they are doing good. . .I didn't hear much about Dock last season.

I'm starting to think that this last Taylor incident is going to be just one speed bump on a long and troubled life for this dude. I'm not saying he is not going to have a good career, he already is in fact good, but man, he is a thug. Wait till he gets married, screws that up, crashes cars, and I'm calling this now, he is going to get into a fight with a teamate, then not pay taxes, maybe some kind of substance abuse...Sorry, I know this a crappy thread, but I'm feeling it. At this age, his resume is longer than so many players. His balls must be dragging on the floor to hold out after his rookie year and not call Gibbs?? Hang on boys and girls!

Great Post.... I also read that article about Taylor where they show he has a good side and a bad side. He is just a very intense player. That translates to causing chaos for other defenses on the field.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

I agree. I think for him, as with Ramsey, it's his make or break year. Another year under Bugel will fix it I believe.

[firstdown]

I think that just the opposite could happen from this incident. It could be the scared straight thing that turns his life around. If he is on the field we need him in a skins jersy and not playing for another team. If he becomes a team distration then maybe we have to rethink his value to the team. As for now we have to let the chips fall where they fall and move on from there. After this year we may not even have a choice on his status, it could be made for us. While reading the article on him I couldn't help but think of Ricky Williams and thats not good.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Just a couple of comments here:

1. The Redskins are not permitted to re-do Taylor's contract now. The CBA forbids it. A rookie contract cannot be renegotiated until after one year passes from the date the original one was signed. So, if the Skins redid Taylor's deal now, they'd be fined by the league and the renegotiated contract would be voided.

2. I understand that someone who works for an employer that is going to pay that person millions of dollars might have to sacrifice some of his rights and freedoms to accommodate the wishes of his beneficient employer. But it seems like an awful lot to ask of someone that they waive their right to own a gun or a knife (does that include dinner knives so you can cut your T-Bone steak?) or to suffer a penalty when being charged with a crime. A baseball bat can be a lethal weapon; would it be reasonable to say that NFL contracts forbid a player to own a baseball bat?

3. "Innocent until proven guilty" has worked for about 220 years so I'd be reluctant to throw away all of that legal standing just because some athletes get in trouble.

4. Someone said that athletes would be forced to use better judgment. Sorr, but I have to disagree here. I don't think anyone can force anyone else to use good judgment - - particularly when there is not a whole lot of basis to say that the person in question has the ability to exercise good judgment. In Sean Taylor's case, I'm hard pressed to come up with a situation where the outcome showed that he used good judgment. Maybe it's because he felt no pressure to do so. OR maybe "good judgment" is beyond his capacity. He is after all a world class MEATHEAD.

5. Dockery was better last year than he was his rookie year. Dockery last year was still below average as a starting guard in the NFL. Can he improve? Sure, he's only a kid. Will he improve? That's the big question for the OL this year because if he does not improve, there will be a hole in the dike.

[BrudLee]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Just a couple of comments here:

1. The Redskins are not permitted to re-do Taylor's contract now. The CBA forbids it. A rookie contract cannot be renegotiated until after one year passes from the date the original one was signed. So, if the Skins redid Taylor's deal now, they'd be fined by the league and the renegotiated contract would be voided.

2. I understand that someone who works for an employer that is going to pay that person millions of dollars might have to sacrifice some of his rights and freedoms to accommodate the wishes of his beneficient employer. But it seems like an awful lot to ask of someone that they waive their right to own a gun or a knife (does that include dinner knives so you can cut your T-Bone steak?) or to suffer a penalty when being charged with a crime. A baseball bat can be a lethal weapon; would it be reasonable to say that NFL contracts forbid a player to own a baseball bat?

3. "Innocent until proven guilty" has worked for about 220 years so I'd be reluctant to throw away all of that legal standing just because some athletes get in trouble.

4. Someone said that athletes would be forced to use better judgment. Sorr, but I have to disagree here. I don't think anyone can force anyone else to use good judgment - - particularly when there is not a whole lot of basis to say that the person in question has the ability to exercise good judgment. In Sean Taylor's case, I'm hard pressed to come up with a situation where the outcome showed that he used good judgment. Maybe it's because he felt no pressure to do so. OR maybe "good judgment" is beyond his capacity. He is after all a world class MEATHEAD.

5. Dockery was better last year than he was his rookie year. Dockery last year was still below average as a starting guard in the NFL. Can he improve? Sure, he's only a kid. Will he improve? That's the big question for the OL this year because if he does not improve, there will be a hole in the dike.

SC-
Up until #4 you had me scared there. I was afraid you'd grown soft on Taylor.

I would worry less about Dockery than most of you are. He is going to be spending his second year with one of history's great position coaches, and last year - when we had some depth on the O-line (Friedman has several starts at guard over his career) - Dockery got all his starts. He may not have looked good to us, but Bugel sees things a little differently.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Just a couple of comments here:

1. The Redskins are not permitted to re-do Taylor's contract now. The CBA forbids it. A rookie contract cannot be renegotiated until after one year passes from the date the original one was signed. So, if the Skins redid Taylor's deal now, they'd be fined by the league and the renegotiated contract would be voided.

2. I understand that someone who works for an employer that is going to pay that person millions of dollars might have to sacrifice some of his rights and freedoms to accommodate the wishes of his beneficient employer. But it seems like an awful lot to ask of someone that they waive their right to own a gun or a knife (does that include dinner knives so you can cut your T-Bone steak?) or to suffer a penalty when being charged with a crime. A baseball bat can be a lethal weapon; would it be reasonable to say that NFL contracts forbid a player to own a baseball bat?

3. "Innocent until proven guilty" has worked for about 220 years so I'd be reluctant to throw away all of that legal standing just because some athletes get in trouble.

4. Someone said that athletes would be forced to use better judgment. Sorr, but I have to disagree here. I don't think anyone can force anyone else to use good judgment - - particularly when there is not a whole lot of basis to say that the person in question has the ability to exercise good judgment. In Sean Taylor's case, I'm hard pressed to come up with a situation where the outcome showed that he used good judgment. Maybe it's because he felt no pressure to do so. OR maybe "good judgment" is beyond his capacity. He is after all a world class MEATHEAD.

5. Dockery was better last year than he was his rookie year. Dockery last year was still below average as a starting guard in the NFL. Can he improve? Sure, he's only a kid. Will he improve? That's the big question for the OL this year because if he does not improve, there will be a hole in the dike.

There is officially a first time for everything.. I agree with SC!

[aprius]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Just a couple of comments here:

1. The Redskins are not permitted to re-do Taylor's contract now. The CBA forbids it. A rookie contract cannot be renegotiated until after one year passes from the date the original one was signed. So, if the Skins redid Taylor's deal now, they'd be fined by the league and the renegotiated contract would be voided.

2. I understand that someone who works for an employer that is going to pay that person millions of dollars might have to sacrifice some of his rights and freedoms to accommodate the wishes of his beneficient employer. But it seems like an awful lot to ask of someone that they waive their right to own a gun or a knife (does that include dinner knives so you can cut your T-Bone steak?) or to suffer a penalty when being charged with a crime. A baseball bat can be a lethal weapon; would it be reasonable to say that NFL contracts forbid a player to own a baseball bat?

3. "Innocent until proven guilty" has worked for about 220 years so I'd be reluctant to throw away all of that legal standing just because some athletes get in trouble.

4. Someone said that athletes would be forced to use better judgment. Sorr, but I have to disagree here. I don't think anyone can force anyone else to use good judgment - - particularly when there is not a whole lot of basis to say that the person in question has the ability to exercise good judgment. In Sean Taylor's case, I'm hard pressed to come up with a situation where the outcome showed that he used good judgment. Maybe it's because he felt no pressure to do so. OR maybe "good judgment" is beyond his capacity. He is after all a world class MEATHEAD.

5. Dockery was better last year than he was his rookie year. Dockery last year was still below average as a starting guard in the NFL. Can he improve? Sure, he's only a kid. Will he improve? That's the big question for the OL this year because if he does not improve, there will be a hole in the dike.

1. They can void the contract and re-do it that way. No penalty.

2. Dont be overly dramatic. I am not talking silverware unless it is bought with the intent to kill or harm. People can buy butcher knives to kill with and often do. Some of our worst killers used them.

3. Innocent until proven guilty doesnt work in business or politics. Why should it work in the NFL? The NFL is a massive business. Their employees(players) need more accountability. I was once fired for suspicion of doing something that 3 years later was proven to be done by my manager. I got an apology after the company went bankrupt because of him. The NFL can do the same thing. I am not saying he can not own a gun after he gets out of the NFL. After all, for most, NFL means Not For Long. Would you rather see one of the best safeties ever to roam the field or would you like him rotting in prison for murder one day?.....which it may come to if he keeps upping the ante. The DUI he got of on technicalities. He wont do that forever... even with Rosenhaus.

4. You said it yourself..."Maybe it's because he felt no pressure to do so." You proved my point for me. Thank you. You may wish to reiterate that and say you agree with me.

5. I disagree. I think Dockery played alot better in his rookie year and I think many coaches that watched him would agree. Ray Brown is not an answer....his body has to give out one day and it will be sooner than later.