the all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread sponsored by Paintrain

[MTK]

Continued from here http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...dskins-51.html

[Paintrain]

Lol, I'm so honored.

Since the pressure is now on, here's an interesting look at how the varied offseason approaches between us and Seattle have led us to divergent paths.

Redskins, Seahawks took different paths - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

I'm sure this will just open up the draft vs. free agency discussion again.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Lol, I'm so honored.

Since the pressure is now on, here's an interesting look at how the varied offseason approaches between us and Seattle have led us to divergent paths.

Redskins, Seahawks took different paths - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

I'm sure this will just open up the draft vs. free agency discussion again.

They've just done a better overall job picking players and having a true plan. Seattle has taken some chances in free agency, hit on some and missed on some. But the players they've picked at almost every position is better than ours.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Lol, I'm so honored.

Since the pressure is now on, here's an interesting look at how the varied offseason approaches between us and Seattle have led us to divergent paths.

Redskins, Seahawks took different paths - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

I'm sure this will just open up the draft vs. free agency discussion again.

The article didn't mention Jordan Reed?

What I take away from the article is simply that Seattle hit on their lower round picks and drafted a lot of defense. I always believe that a sign of a great GM is one who can find the diamonds in the rough in the lower rounds. I know someone here won't agree with me on that, but it's obvious that's true. Mike Shanahan had the final say, and seemed to hit more on the offensive side of the ball than defense. Yet he still seeemed to whiff on offensive linemen and the secondary. Seattle's GM picked the players while Carroll coached the team. The 'skins have that in place now. Let's compare the two after this version of the front office, and after Gruden has been in place for a couple seasons.

[skinsfaninok]

Rak will stay , we will re sign him and hopefully he'll get better and better

[FRPLG]

Well the point of the article was more that Seattle has been very good in the draft and we weren't.

[NYCskinfan82]

Rak is good I'm hoping with the hiring of the new OLB coach he will just get that much better.

[Lotus]

The Seahawks defense is driven by the Legion of Boom, who allow the front 7 to gamble and blitz more. And the Legion of Boom is made up primarily of lower round draft picks.

The point is that the Seahawks have done something we haven't done: develop players. Coach 'em up. Make them better than they should be on paper.

The Seahawks teach us that player development is more important than draft vs. free agency.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Lotus

The Seahawks defense is driven by the Legion of Boom, who allow the front 7 to gamble and blitz more. And the Legion of Boom is made up primarily of lower round draft picks.

The point is that the Seahawks have done something we haven't done: develop players. Coach 'em up. Make them better than they should be on paper.

The Seahawks teach us that player development is more important than draft vs. free agency.

This is the key. How we get a player is rather irrelevant, it's what we do when they get here that's the key. That's one ding on bringing back so many position coaches. We have done a terrible job of developing players for a long, long time. I think players like Kerrigan, Amerson, Rak, Williams, Hankerson, Helu, even Morris and of course RG3 have a lot more upside that we've yet to see.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

This is the key. How we get a player is rather irrelevant, it's what we do when they get here that's the key. That's one ding on bringing back so many position coaches. We have done a terrible job of developing players for a long, long time. I think players like Kerrigan, Amerson, Rak, Williams, Hankerson, Helu, even Morris and of course RG3 have a lot more upside that we've yet to see.

One problem I've found about the Skins in recent years is always a catch-22 with player development.

On one hand, we'll push someone into a starting role far before they're early, and they fizzle out after a few games (anyone remember Chris Horton?)

On the other hand, we stash people on the bench where they get zero live game reps until they fade into obscurity OR fame (Clemons/Rinehart/etc.) Not saying that Compton or Gettis or McRib are the answer, but damn it would have been nice to see them get some game reps. At least we could have properly evaluated them. If Rib would have come back in shape after the playoff loss, I think he would have been starting, so there's that.

Alfred Morris is the only "developmental" player that has really worked out for us, at least that I can remember. And if it wasn't for injuries, we might not have ever known his name.

[WillH]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

One problem I've found about the Skins in recent years is always a catch-22 with player development.

On one hand, we'll push someone into a starting role far before they're early, and they fizzle out after a few games (anyone remember Chris Horton?)

On the other hand, we stash people on the bench where they get zero live game reps until they fade into obscurity OR fame (Clemons/Rinehart/etc.) Not saying that Compton or Gettis or McRib are the answer, but damn it would have been nice to see them get some game reps. At least we could have properly evaluated them. If Rib would have come back in shape after the playoff loss, I think he would have been starting, so there's that.

Alfred Morris is the only "developmental" player that has really worked out for us, at least that I can remember. And if it wasn't for injuries, we might not have ever known his name.

I think they have done a good job developing Perry Reily, then again, the LB coaches have been replaced, and perhaps Fletcher had more to do with that than the coaches.

Jordan Reed and Rob Jackson are two others that might be considered well developed talent, and I think Paul and Paulsen have developed into good depth TE's at least.

Overall though, I see what you're saying.

[jamf]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

One problem I've found about the Skins in recent years is always a catch-22 with player development.

On one hand, we'll push someone into a starting role far before they're early, and they fizzle out after a few games (anyone remember Chris Horton?)

On the other hand, we stash people on the bench where they get zero live game reps until they fade into obscurity OR fame (Clemons/Rinehart/etc.) Not saying that Compton or Gettis or McRib are the answer, but damn it would have been nice to see them get some game reps. At least we could have properly evaluated them. If Rib would have come back in shape after the playoff loss, I think he would have been starting, so there's that.

Alfred Morris is the only "developmental" player that has really worked out for us, at least that I can remember. And if it wasn't for injuries, we might not have ever known his name.

Are you implying that Horton washed out because he played too much as a rookie?
I don't buy that argument. Nothing is more valuable than playing time for rookies.

It's all about coaching and talent evaluation.
The good teams can take an unknown player that fits their system and coach them up so they can play solid football. Patriots toss new people in the starting line up every week and they play pretty well.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Well the point of the article was more that Seattle has been very good in the draft and we weren't.

I mean the teams went in different directions for many reasons.

1. They are loaded with talent we r not
2. Pete Carroll has done a great job with this team and they love the guy, obviously ms didn't get that same treatment.
3. RW didn't have a horrible knee injury and miss all OS.
4. They have a dominant set of DBs, ours are as bad as it gets with Wilson starting.
5. Injuries killed us this yr, who was their big injury? Nobody

[mredskins]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I mean the teams went in different directions for many reasons.

1. They are loaded with talent we r not
2. Pete Carroll has done a great job with this team and they love the guy, obviously ms didn't get that same treatment.
3. RW didn't have a horrible knee injury and miss all OS.
4. They have a dominant set of DBs, ours are as bad as it gets with Wilson starting.
5. Injuries killed us this yr, who was their big injury? Nobody

Actually we had a pretty injury free year. LAst year we sustained more injuries at least to key players.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I mean the teams went in different directions for many reasons.

1. They are loaded with talent we r not
2. Pete Carroll has done a great job with this team and they love the guy, obviously ms didn't get that same treatment.
3. RW didn't have a horrible knee injury and miss all OS.
4. They have a dominant set of DBs, ours are as bad as it gets with Wilson starting.
5. Injuries killed us this yr, who was their big injury? Nobody

Seattle was not loaded before Pete Carroll and John Schneider arrived in 2010. They have done a much better job with the draft than Shanahan and Allen have. They only used one high draft choice on their excellent defensive backfield, Earl Thomas in the first round. Richard Sherman and Kam Chancellor were both 5th round picks.
Saying that they had no injuries is also inaccurate considering that their top FA pickup, Percy Harvin, essentially missed the entire year. Bottom line, they've built the right way - excellent drafting and player development. They had a blueprint and stuck with it. I fear that this offseason will be a return of free spending like there is no tomorrow around here. That is no way to sustain success, as Snyder has proven over and over again.