Patriots accused of taping Rams before the 2002 Super Bowl

[Tha Posse]

FOX Sports on MSN - NFL - Pats deny report that worker filmed Rams before XXXVI

[SuperFan99]

I would love to see Belicheat called before congress . . . so he could perjure himself. The fact that writers gave him coach of the year makes me sick. I don't care if you've been undefeated for 10 years straight, he f(@#* cheated . . . And you really believe the Jets game was the first time he tried videotaping another team?

We're all smarter than that . . .

[Cap'nChaos47]

I've watched my opponents game film since I was 10 years old.... I'm having a hard time understanding what type of filming is not allowed and if that's the case - why is other filming permitted??

[Rajmahal33]

I don't think its relevant what they actually videotaped, or how they used it. It's a matter of breaking a rule...one that isn't nitpicky or subjective. It's pretty freaking blatant and well-defined. Don't use any form of unsanctioned surveillance against your opponent to gain intelligence about the team's strategies or discussions. I dont think if it could be proven that the patriots did film the rams walk-through, that they could justify it as an accident or claim that it was harmless.

Therefore, it shouldn't be up for debate if what they did was actually that bad, but rather the debate should be how to substantiate the claim and if it is in fact true, what should the repercussions be. I think its pretty clear that the pats organization (with Belichick at the helm) may have been doing this quite often and they just happened to get caught earlier this year against the jets. Merryl Hodge suggested that they should be stripped of that first superbowl crown in this case and I tend to agree with this. (Mainly b/c i think they would have had an unjust competitive advantage. They were 14 point underdogs and the game was decided by a last minute FG that was allowed to happen by stopping the most potent offense in NFL history at the time).

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Cap'nChaos47

I've watched my opponents game film since I was 10 years old.... I'm having a hard time understanding what type of filming is not allowed and if that's the case - why is other filming permitted??

You don't see the difference between filming a game where there are 75,000 people in attendance and another 15 million watching on TV on the one hand and filming a closed practice on the other?

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Cap'nChaos47

I've watched my opponents game film since I was 10 years old.... I'm having a hard time understanding what type of filming is not allowed and if that's the case - why is other filming permitted??

I think there is a big difference from Little league, High school and possibly College and the NFL. The rules in Little league and High school are such that the coach's have to send to the next opponant the last game played so they can evaluate film(plays). I'm not sure if Colleges do this but I do not think Pro teams do.

Also, It would be no big deal if they were taping the whole game to see the plays used. Heck teams can tape from the Direct tv sports package if they wanted. Where the problem comes in is when they are taping the had signals and the plays being run from the hand signals. Which is what the issue was with the Jets. That gives the opposing teams somewhat of an advantage in possibly knowing the next play. This is what cost them a first round pick and $500,000.

Now if they did tape a walk through which is supposed to be closed then they need to be hammered. Now that a name is out there it will be interesting to see if the person feels he has to prove his statement or can the Patriots buy him off and not have the tape surface. lol.

I did not belive it when they said the only team they taped was the Jets. I'm would bet they have other tapes on other teams as well. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that if they produced all the tapes they had they would have looked bad and the coach would have been suspended for a while. I could be wrong maybe there was only one team and thats it. I also have problems with the Commish. If the tapes did not have any value to them then send copies to the media and allow them to show the public so we all can say "oh this is all crap." I would have liked to have seen him also give the film to the team that was filmed and allow them to evaluate what was being filmed and if it was pertinant or not. Instead he immediatly destroys the film within what 2 days. I have issues in how all this was handled.

[Defensewins]

This thing is getting silly. So they taped them running a slant. Then a stop and go. Then a running play. You do not think they already have all the game film of them running these exact plays but in game conditions. NFL teams do not reinvent the wheel each time they take the field. Before a game you know every play each team runs and you even prepare for the plays they do not run.
The Woodward and Bernstein's need to take a deep breath. This does not raise to the level of taking away a SB crown away. I think this has more to do with the hate for the Patriots by certain fans and press. They can not stand seeing another team do well.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

This thing is getting silly. So they taped them running a slant. Then a stop and go. Then a running play. You do not think they already have all the game film of them running these exact plays but in game conditions. NFL teams do not reinvent the wheel each time they take the field. Before a game you know every play each team runs and you even prepare for the plays they do not run.
The Woodward and Bernstein's need to take a deep breath. This does not raise to the level of taking away a SB crown away. I think this has more to do with the hate for the Patriots by certain fans and press. They can not stand seeing another team do well.

I think your wrong. If the tape was of no value, then why bother to go the trouble of acquiring it. It's like someone breaks into a house, steals a load of stuff and then says, "But this stuff isn't even worth that much!" Knowing what plays a team runs in a walkthrough and the order they run them in would be a huge advantage for someone calling a defense.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

I think your wrong. If the tape was of no value, then why bother to go the trouble of acquiring it. It's like someone breaks into a house, steals a load of stuff and then says, "But this stuff isn't even worth that much!" Knowing what plays a team runs in a walkthrough and the order they run them in would be a huge advantage for someone calling a defense.

The Fox article states, "It was not known whether the cameraman was told by the Patriots to film the practice or what he did with the tape, the Herald said."
So the Herald that made these allegations with unidentified sources and a lot of rumors goes even further and says 'it is not known what he did with the tape."
When you or any credible source has actual facts then punishment should be considered, until then it is premature.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

The Fox article states, "It was not known whether the cameraman was told by the Patriots to film the practice or what he did with the tape, the Herald said."
So the Herald that made these allegations with unidentified sources and a lot of rumors goes even further and says 'it is not known what he did with the tape."
When you or any credible source has actual facts then punishment should be considered, until then it is premature.

You stood up and defended the Pats and essentially said that, even if true, this is much to do about nothing. So, I'm not sure why we can't speculate about what should happen if the allegations prove true.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

The Fox article states, "It was not known whether the cameraman was told by the Patriots to film the practice or what he did with the tape, the Herald said."
So the Herald that made these allegations with unidentified sources and a lot of rumors goes even further and says 'it is not known what he did with the tape."
When you or any credible source has actual facts then punishment should be considered, until then it is premature.

Before you were saying it was okay for them to look at the tape because it was of little value. Your new position is that they never looked at the tape at all. I would suggest that if the tape was made, then Belichik almost certainly watched it personally, made notes, and adjusted his gameplan accordingly.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Before you were saying it was okay for them to look at the tape because it was of little value. Your new position is that they never looked at the tape at all. I would suggest that if the tape was made, then Belichik almost certainly watched it personally, made notes, and adjusted his gameplan accordingly.

It is not a new position.
They are two totally different subjects:

1) Did they get an advantage by watching practice tape?
2) Did this tape really exist and what was done with it after it was recorded? Can it be proved?

If you need more explanation let me know.
I never said they did or did not watch the tape. I was referring to what can be proved and how this so called revealing article is nothing but scuttlebutt. .

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

This thing is getting silly. So they taped them running a slant. Then a stop and go. Then a running play. You do not think they already have all the game film of them running these exact plays but in game conditions. NFL teams do not reinvent the wheel each time they take the field. Before a game you know every play each team runs and you even prepare for the plays they do not run.
The Woodward and Bernstein's need to take a deep breath. This does not raise to the level of taking away a SB crown away. I think this has more to do with the hate for the Patriots by certain fans and press. They can not stand seeing another team do well.

I know you're schtick is to defend Belichick and the Pats, but this kind of espionage (if it took place) definitely deserves condemnation and harsh sanctions. Filming a team's walkthroughs (i.e., the plays they will run the next day) gives a great competitive advantage. As someone else noted, why in the hell would Belichick risk getting hit with severe sanctions if it gave him no advantage? Either you think Belichick is a dumbass and risked a great deal for nothing, or you're not being totally honest with yourself.

Also, the notion that fans can't stand seeing another team doing well is unfounded. I had no problem with the Colts marching towards a perfect season and I wanted them to do it. Why? I have respect for Manning and Dungy. I and so many others have a serious problem with the Pats winning. Why? Maybe that's something you need to think about.

[Darrell_Green_28]

i say whether or not the cheating had anything to do with the out come of the game, its still breaking the rules and should be disciplined harshly. As I heard earlier someone on espn comparing it to, if you go to rob a bank but dont get away with it you still attempted to rob the bank. If you go to a casino and cheat and lose and get caught you still are gonna get punished, as if you would cheat and win big... ITS STILL CHEATING... no matter what the final outcome was. if they wanted to tape they should have followed the rules as to how it can be done.

[Kronz21]

Strip them of the Superbowl!! JK! Who cares, everybody scouts and videotapes their opponents in some way or another. I went to DeMatha and knew Coach Morgan Wootten very well and he used to sell his offensive play book. He said it doesn't matter if they know our plays it is how you run your plays. Be precise, efficient, and do your job. I still hate the Pats because they are so smug and run the score up on people.