What's the Bigger Problem?

SmootSmack · 12-13-2004, 02:15 AM

I'm probably in the minority in that I don't think the playcalling overall is all that bad, but our execution-or lack thereof-is what's really killing us. And this would include dumb penalties.

The problem however is that our playcalling is so conservative that it doesn't leave much room for a mistake here or there. Still, I'd rather we not force a playbook that isn't suited for our offense and I think playing conservatively, as agonizing as it is, is overall the better option...for now.

Thoughts?

Gmanc711 · 12-13-2004, 02:19 AM

Well if we execute the plays, no matter what they will be successful. Its defintley a little bit of both. I mean there are just some places where it just seems obvious to do somthing differnent. However, if it works we wouldnt even have this discussion.

Philedalphia is a much better team than I think we are giving them credit for with the way we are talking about execution too. By saying that I mean that I dont think we are giving our guys enough credit for going against such a tough team. I think next week, we will see somthing like last week, we call very similar plays but just execute awsome against a bad team. Really, we the past two weeks we have looked like a "good football team". We destroyed a bad team, and played a close, close game against a very good team. We defintley need a little bit better on the part of the players and coaches.

Daseal · 12-13-2004, 02:20 AM

I think playcalling. I think, for the most part, our team executed very well tonight. I simply think we need to find more of a mid-range passing game. 10-15 yards, not the homerun, but a big pass!

Also, I remember you guys absolutely ripping Spurrier last year for having a TE on Simeon Rice. Anyone notice how often Chris Cooley was on Javon Kearse when he made a play?

NY_Skinsfan · 12-13-2004, 02:21 AM

I am going with execution...
12 penalties for 137 yards is inexcusable. Hey Mike Sellars,"See ya"...dont let the door hit you on the way out...dumbass.

JWsleep · 12-13-2004, 02:35 AM

Penalties, a killer INT and a mediocre o-line effort all-around. I went with execution.

But that doesn't mean the playcalling was good...

offiss · 12-13-2004, 02:48 AM

It may very well be the type of play's we are calling, what I mean when I say that is this perhap's our pass routes are to easy to cover, and very predictable, what I can say is this the Gibb's of the past never threw the ball on 3rd down short of the first down, every pattern was at the firstdown marker, the one thing Gibb's doesn't do now which for the most part he didn't do back in the day either, is hit our back's out of the backfield while they are moving forward hitting them on the run, our back's when they catch the ball are alway's having to stop and restart giving the defense a chance to react, I know it's not Ramsey's fault because Gibb's did it with every QB we ever had, they are alway's running parellel to the line of scrimmage instead of verticle, it's like they run to a defender and stop, I kind of feel that way about our WR's right now as well.

jamf · 12-13-2004, 04:11 AM

its both, but i think the bigger problem is the play calling.

we are so conservative, once we get a 1st and 15yds, we are doomed.

the biggest problem is gibbs, he is misusing his players. coles should not be going over the middle so often. he cant physically take the pounding. cooley should not be our deep threat no matter how good his hands are. the OLinemen cant pull. when ever they try the counter tre/gap they get stuffed.dockery cant move, raymer is always in the way, samuels has no heart.

one thing that pissed me off was that when they lost 2 D tacklers, we never ran up the middle. trotter is not THAT good. they didnt run up the middle.

another problem with the play calls is that none of the plays allow the player to run after the catch, well there is that stupid WR screen pass. when ever a player catches the ball he is going towards the sidelines or coming back to the ball.

Kope · 12-13-2004, 04:45 AM

Execution

The way I look at it is if you take the penalties out- Portis gets 100+ (hard to run the ball when you put yourselves in 1, 2, 3rd and long)

We get two more field goals at a minumum.

that = ...let's seee......hmmmm....... a WIN

Luxorreb · 12-13-2004, 05:56 AM

Execution.
3rd and 1? Make your block, beat your man and it's a first down.
I also believe penalties fall under the lack of execution. Something like 12 penalties for 145 yds!?

LongTimeSkinsFan · 12-13-2004, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

I think playcalling. I think, for the most part, our team executed very well tonight. I simply think we need to find more of a mid-range passing game. 10-15 yards, not the homerun, but a big pass!

Also, I remember you guys absolutely ripping Spurrier last year for having a TE on Simeon Rice. Anyone notice how often Chris Cooley was on Javon Kearse when he made a play?

OK that explains over 100 yds in penalties right? Gibbs called all the Illegal Motion, Holding, and I'm sure he told Sellars before he went out on the field "go pop someone after the whistle has blown right in front of a referee". PUHHHHHH-Lease! There were also at least three instances, including the pick, where Ramsey made a bad passing decision. Sorry but Gibbs cannot control the decisions made on the field. If the skins were guilty of anything last night, it was maybe being a little too overhyped on emotion and playing too out of control. That to me was the single biggest reason why we lost that game.

Daseal · 12-13-2004, 08:35 AM

No, but when we ran plays our receivers caught the balls, for the most part Ramsey made good throws. You're not going to execute a perfect game, the penelties were bad. Remember, 50 yards of those penelties came on 1 play. Also, Holding happens on every single play. I feel the little dink passes don't get it done.

MTK · 12-13-2004, 10:35 AM

You can't blame penalties on coaching, that's all in the execution category.

The Giants game was the perfect example of what happens when the players execute. It sure makes the playcalling look a lot better doesn't it? As a coach you can call a great game, but if the players don't execute the play to it's potential it's a waste.

The INT that ended the game wasn't a bad call, it was bad execution. Ramsey should have immediately checked down once he saw the coverage in the endzone. He should have only attempted that throw if Cooley was wide open, which he clearly wasn't. I have no problem with going for the throat in that situation, but Ramsey needs to pick his shots and he picked wrong.

Daseal, there's nothing wrong with having your TE/H-back block on the DE when the play is rolling to the opposite side. The problem was Ramsey held the ball too long and took a shot that he didn't need to take. He should have tossed the ball out of bounds once he rolled to the left and didn't see anyone. What I do have a problem with is when you leave your TE on the DE all game long straight up and that's your plan. It's two entirely different situations, apples and oranges.

Why do we have to keep going back to Spurrier anyway?? Haven't we beat this issue in to the ground already? Let it go man, Gibbs is our head coach and Spurrier is back to college ball.

irish · 12-13-2004, 11:18 AM

I gotta pick execution because of the penalties. The playcalling seems bad because it has to be scaled back to match the skill level of the players that have to execute these plays but it is not as bad as it seems.

SmootSmack · 12-13-2004, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Why do we have to keep going back to Spurrier anyway?? Haven't we beat this issue in to the ground already? Let it go man, Gibbs is our head coach and Spurrier is back to college ball.

Amen! Preach on brother Matty!

EEich · 12-13-2004, 01:08 PM

Wouldn't they be in a 1st and 15 situation because of poor execution?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamf

its both, but i think the bigger problem is the play calling.

we are so conservative, once we get a 1st and 15yds, we are doomed.

View Poll Results: What's the Bigger Problem?
Playcalling	19	30.16%
Execution	44	69.84%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

12-13-2004, 02:15 AM	#1
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	What's the Bigger Problem? I'm probably in the minority in that I don't think the playcalling overall is all that bad, but our execution-or lack thereof-is what's really killing us. And this would include dumb penalties. The problem however is that our playcalling is so conservative that it doesn't leave much room for a mistake here or there. Still, I'd rather we not force a playbook that isn't suited for our offense and I think playing conservatively, as agonizing as it is, is overall the better option...for now. Thoughts? __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

12-13-2004, 02:19 AM	#2
Gmanc711 Thank You, Sean. Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Gaithersburg, MD Age: 39 Posts: 7,506	Well if we execute the plays, no matter what they will be successful. Its defintley a little bit of both. I mean there are just some places where it just seems obvious to do somthing differnent. However, if it works we wouldnt even have this discussion. Philedalphia is a much better team than I think we are giving them credit for with the way we are talking about execution too. By saying that I mean that I dont think we are giving our guys enough credit for going against such a tough team. I think next week, we will see somthing like last week, we call very similar plays but just execute awsome against a bad team. Really, we the past two weeks we have looked like a "good football team". We destroyed a bad team, and played a close, close game against a very good team. We defintley need a little bit better on the part of the players and coaches. __________________ #21

12-13-2004, 02:35 AM	#5
JWsleep Propane and propane accessories Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Houston, TX Age: 55 Posts: 4,714	Penalties, a killer INT and a mediocre o-line effort all-around. I went with execution. But that doesn't mean the playcalling was good... __________________ Hail from Houston!

12-13-2004, 05:56 AM	#9
Luxorreb ^21^ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Richmond, Virginia Age: 52 Posts: 1,630	Execution. 3rd and 1? Make your block, beat your man and it's a first down. I also believe penalties fall under the lack of execution. Something like 12 penalties for 145 yds!? __________________ ^21^

12-13-2004, 02:20 AM	#3
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	I think playcalling. I think, for the most part, our team executed very well tonight. I simply think we need to find more of a mid-range passing game. 10-15 yards, not the homerun, but a big pass! Also, I remember you guys absolutely ripping Spurrier last year for having a TE on Simeon Rice. Anyone notice how often Chris Cooley was on Javon Kearse when he made a play?

12-13-2004, 02:21 AM	#4
NY_Skinsfan Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Albany, NY Age: 51 Posts: 838	I am going with execution... 12 penalties for 137 yards is inexcusable. Hey Mike Sellars,"See ya"...dont let the door hit you on the way out...dumbass.

12-13-2004, 02:48 AM	#6
offiss Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: sparta, new jersey [ northern jersey ] Age: 60 Posts: 3,097	It may very well be the type of play's we are calling, what I mean when I say that is this perhap's our pass routes are to easy to cover, and very predictable, what I can say is this the Gibb's of the past never threw the ball on 3rd down short of the first down, every pattern was at the firstdown marker, the one thing Gibb's doesn't do now which for the most part he didn't do back in the day either, is hit our back's out of the backfield while they are moving forward hitting them on the run, our back's when they catch the ball are alway's having to stop and restart giving the defense a chance to react, I know it's not Ramsey's fault because Gibb's did it with every QB we ever had, they are alway's running parellel to the line of scrimmage instead of verticle, it's like they run to a defender and stop, I kind of feel that way about our WR's right now as well.

12-13-2004, 04:11 AM	#7
jamf Pro Bowl Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Diego Ca Posts: 5,296	its both, but i think the bigger problem is the play calling. we are so conservative, once we get a 1st and 15yds, we are doomed. the biggest problem is gibbs, he is misusing his players. coles should not be going over the middle so often. he cant physically take the pounding. cooley should not be our deep threat no matter how good his hands are. the OLinemen cant pull. when ever they try the counter tre/gap they get stuffed.dockery cant move, raymer is always in the way, samuels has no heart. one thing that pissed me off was that when they lost 2 D tacklers, we never ran up the middle. trotter is not THAT good. they didnt run up the middle. another problem with the play calls is that none of the plays allow the player to run after the catch, well there is that stupid WR screen pass. when ever a player catches the ball he is going towards the sidelines or coming back to the ball.

12-13-2004, 04:45 AM	#8
Kope Special Teams Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NC Posts: 447	Execution The way I look at it is if you take the penalties out- Portis gets 100+ (hard to run the ball when you put yourselves in 1, 2, 3rd and long) We get two more field goals at a minumum. that = ...let's seee......hmmmm....... a WIN

12-13-2004, 08:35 AM	#11
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 41 Posts: 8,341	No, but when we ran plays our receivers caught the balls, for the most part Ramsey made good throws. You're not going to execute a perfect game, the penelties were bad. Remember, 50 yards of those penelties came on 1 play. Also, Holding happens on every single play. I feel the little dink passes don't get it done.

12-13-2004, 10:35 AM	#12
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: NY Age: 52 Posts: 99,464	You can't blame penalties on coaching, that's all in the execution category. The Giants game was the perfect example of what happens when the players execute. It sure makes the playcalling look a lot better doesn't it? As a coach you can call a great game, but if the players don't execute the play to it's potential it's a waste. The INT that ended the game wasn't a bad call, it was bad execution. Ramsey should have immediately checked down once he saw the coverage in the endzone. He should have only attempted that throw if Cooley was wide open, which he clearly wasn't. I have no problem with going for the throat in that situation, but Ramsey needs to pick his shots and he picked wrong. Daseal, there's nothing wrong with having your TE/H-back block on the DE when the play is rolling to the opposite side. The problem was Ramsey held the ball too long and took a shot that he didn't need to take. He should have tossed the ball out of bounds once he rolled to the left and didn't see anyone. What I do have a problem with is when you leave your TE on the DE all game long straight up and that's your plan. It's two entirely different situations, apples and oranges. Why do we have to keep going back to Spurrier anyway?? Haven't we beat this issue in to the ground already? Let it go man, Gibbs is our head coach and Spurrier is back to college ball.

12-13-2004, 11:18 AM	#13
irish Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,575	I gotta pick execution because of the penalties. The playcalling seems bad because it has to be scaled back to match the skill level of the players that have to execute these plays but it is not as bad as it seems.

What's the Bigger Problem?

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