The Twilight Zone

jdlea · 09-13-2005, 11:46 AM

For the record: The Falcons thing was in jest. I didn't expect it to be taken seriously.

BrudLee · 09-13-2005, 11:54 AM

And to reiterate - Joe Gibbs is a coach that not only experience has taught me to respect, but - until yesterday's press conference - I would have treated his word as something carved in stone.

Eleven passes after his season began, the same man who had this press conference on August 8th saying "...We're expecting Patrick to start. That's what we're geared towards. That's what we planned. That's what I said last year. You're hoping he's going to step up and get better and better as we go..." didn't give his quarterback much of a chance to get going. Now the team that is "geared towards" a strong-armed 26 year old right hander will start a 36 year old left hander who by most objective standards has lost a little off his fastball.

My point is not that the season is lost. Joe Gibbs is a Hall of Fame coach who will do what it takes to win ball games. And it would be amazingly presumptuous of me to say that I know how to win in this league and he doesn't. I would like to know which of his eight completions out of fourteen attempts for seventy yards (boy, those numbers seem familiar...) led him to essentially scrap his announced plans for a revitalized offense - but that's just my personal curiousity.

RedskinRat · 09-13-2005, 12:36 PM

Brunell beats the Cow-Whores in Texass Stadium. Everything changes.

If he doesn't the pack of rabid dogs will howl, that'll be a Twilight Zone you don't want to enter.

While we're at it, didn't Favre start at one point in Atlanta? Then get dumped? Hmmmm.

RedskinRat · 09-13-2005, 12:38 PM

Brud, Ramsey wasn't benched. He got knocked out of the game by a dubious hit. He'd already thrown an errant pass and dropped 2. Going back in dizzy wouldn't have doen anything except guaranteed us a loss.

firstdown · 09-13-2005, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrudLee

And to reiterate - Joe Gibbs is a coach that not only experience has taught me to respect, but - until yesterday's press conference - I would have treated his word as something carved in stone.

Eleven passes after his season began, the same man who had this press conference on August 8th saying "...We're expecting Patrick to start. That's what we're geared towards. That's what we planned. That's what I said last year. You're hoping he's going to step up and get better and better as we go..." didn't give his quarterback much of a chance to get going. Now the team that is "geared towards" a strong-armed 26 year old right hander will start a 36 year old left hander who by most objective standards has lost a little off his fastball.

My point is not that the season is lost. Joe Gibbs is a Hall of Fame coach who will do what it takes to win ball games. And it would be amazingly presumptuous of me to say that I know how to win in this league and he doesn't. I would like to know which of his eight completions out of fourteen attempts for seventy yards (boy, those numbers seem familiar...) led him to essentially scrap his announced plans for a revitalized offense - but that's just my personal curiousity.

Well the best part of his stats from last year his only game over 300 yards passing was against Dallas. Maybe that was the only stat Gibbs was given when making his decision. The reason Brunell does not throw alot of interceptions is its hard to catch a ball bouncing across the field.

sportscurmudgeon · 09-13-2005, 06:08 PM

I don't think this is the Twilight Zone at all. I think all of this is relatively clear.

Given a free choice, I believe that Joe Gibbs wants - and wanted last year - to play Mark Brunell at QB over Patrick Ramsey. But Brunell was awful last year and Ramsey did well enough at the end of the season to earn Gibbs' - grudgingly offered - word that Ramsey would be the starting QB this year. But I don't think Joe Gibbs was happy about having to have made that promise and I think he always in his mind had Patrick Ramsey on a VERY short leash.

He never said he would give Ramsey the same time to prove himself unworthy of the starting job as he did for Brunell last year. And since he would have rather had Brunell in there in the first place, why is anyone surprised that the hook came out quickly.

I believe that in September 2005, Mark Brunell is equally competent to lead this team to victory as is Patrick Ramsey. Assuming neither gets hurt during the year, that will probably be my assessment in January 2005. What Ramsey brings to the team is the fact that he MIGHT develop into a better QB and be the leader here for 5 or 7 years into the future. That's not gonna happen with Brunell.

Joe Gibbs did not make some kind of "deal with the devil" here and he does not "speak with forked tongue." He is more concerned with winning games now than he is with positioning the roster to win some as yet unscheduled games in 2008. You don't have to like that or agree with that, but I really think that's about all there is to this brouhaha.

steveo395 · 09-13-2005, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I just hope that Monday night we can see at least 75% of his "old" form, and by that I mean his Jacksonville form.

well he averaged about a 85 qb rating in jacksonville
75% of that is 63....man that just happens to be the same as last year

SmootSmack · 09-13-2005, 07:18 PM

I'm not expecting Brunell to light up the stat sheet on Monday night. Maybe just something like 12 of 17, 110 yards and a TD (and NO TURNOVERS). Even less than that perhaps. The star of the game will be Portis. He is and should be the star of all our games. Brunell is just there to help him shine.

Ramsey has a lot of potential and seems like a good guy, but if being a good guy is what mattered then NY_Skinsfan might as well start at QB and what good is potential if he doesn't realize it? I really wish that Ramsey had done better this preseason. I wish he had gone out there and said "I've been given this job and now I'm going to show all of you why I deserve it." But he didn't, he didn't seal the deal.

skins052bgr8 · 09-13-2005, 07:31 PM

That being said about Brunell he comes into the cowboys game and plays horrible 2 turnovers, 6 points by field goal, 140 yards passing, and a loss, do you think gibbs pulls him because of the turnovers or the ineffective play. I just do not see it happening. Twilight Zone 8 games at that level and Gibbs finally goes to Campbell and another season lost. That also would then from the previous post make gibbs a hypocrite and his players seeing the QB play at that level and be given another long leash will be the downfall. All hypothetical, but I just wonder what Gibbs does?

RedskinRat · 09-13-2005, 07:33 PM

He starts Campbell! Yay!

monk81 · 09-13-2005, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Ramsey is no Vick, so let's not start comparing the two on equal ground.

As for religion having anything to do with this, that's just silly. Ramsey is also a very religous person, so this argument makes no sense.

Gibbs didn't get into the Hall of Fame by making personel decisions based on a player's religion. To try to make that connection is really reaching.

Yep Matty, your right not only Brunell, but Ramsey as well is a professing Christian, as is Gibbs.......I hate it when these people try to put some kind of slanted label/angle when there is none......
James Brown on Fox did the same thing when interviewing Gibbs last year asking him if he went out of his way to sign Brunell because they are both Christians, when Ramsey is a Christian too.....shows you how much the media doesn't research the topics they report/interview on.

skins052bgr8 · 09-13-2005, 07:51 PM

Athletic ability no question on a different level, but as far as mistakes that Vick makes as a passing QB very similar to Ramsey. Very ineffective but definitely a playmaker with his legs and threat to run, so the comparison to Vicks passing ability and Ramsey are very comparible. I think the comparison is that Schaub looked so good in preseason and some of the times he came in and Vick struggled in several games with passing. Gibbs unsure with Vick passing as a QB and benches him for Schaub.

That Guy · 09-13-2005, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I'm not expecting Brunell to light up the stat sheet on Monday night. Maybe just something like 12 of 17, 110 yards and a TD (and NO TURNOVERS). Even less than that perhaps. The star of the game will be Portis. He is and should be the star of all our games. Brunell is just there to help him shine.

thats ironic though, cause it doesn't really work... the fast receivers are there to get people out of the box, and having a guy that throws to the closer passsing options and puts up 100 yards a game isn't going to do that, and isn't going to offer portis ANY help. It just going to make portis and the oline have to work even harder.

otoh, ramsey may make the defense work harder

, but they're a much better unit.

09-13-2005, 11:46 AM	#16
jdlea Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, VA Age: 40 Posts: 3,109	Re: The Twilight Zone For the record: The Falcons thing was in jest. I didn't expect it to be taken seriously.

09-13-2005, 11:54 AM	#17
BrudLee Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE Posts: 3,494	Re: The Twilight Zone And to reiterate - Joe Gibbs is a coach that not only experience has taught me to respect, but - until yesterday's press conference - I would have treated his word as something carved in stone. Eleven passes after his season began, the same man who had this press conference on August 8th saying "...We're expecting Patrick to start. That's what we're geared towards. That's what we planned. That's what I said last year. You're hoping he's going to step up and get better and better as we go..." didn't give his quarterback much of a chance to get going. Now the team that is "geared towards" a strong-armed 26 year old right hander will start a 36 year old left hander who by most objective standards has lost a little off his fastball. My point is not that the season is lost. Joe Gibbs is a Hall of Fame coach who will do what it takes to win ball games. And it would be amazingly presumptuous of me to say that I know how to win in this league and he doesn't. I would like to know which of his eight completions out of fourteen attempts for seventy yards (boy, those numbers seem familiar...) led him to essentially scrap his announced plans for a revitalized offense - but that's just my personal curiousity. __________________ There's nowhere to go but up. Or down. I guess we could stay where we are, too.

09-13-2005, 12:36 PM	#18
RedskinRat Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: I'm in LA, trick! Posts: 8,700	Re: The Twilight Zone Brunell beats the Cow-Whores in Texass Stadium. Everything changes. If he doesn't the pack of rabid dogs will howl, that'll be a Twilight Zone you don't want to enter. While we're at it, didn't Favre start at one point in Atlanta? Then get dumped? Hmmmm.

09-13-2005, 12:38 PM	#19
RedskinRat Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: I'm in LA, trick! Posts: 8,700	Re: The Twilight Zone Brud, Ramsey wasn't benched. He got knocked out of the game by a dubious hit. He'd already thrown an errant pass and dropped 2. Going back in dizzy wouldn't have doen anything except guaranteed us a loss.

09-13-2005, 06:08 PM	#21
sportscurmudgeon Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 3,159	Re: The Twilight Zone I don't think this is the Twilight Zone at all. I think all of this is relatively clear. Given a free choice, I believe that Joe Gibbs wants - and wanted last year - to play Mark Brunell at QB over Patrick Ramsey. But Brunell was awful last year and Ramsey did well enough at the end of the season to earn Gibbs' - grudgingly offered - word that Ramsey would be the starting QB this year. But I don't think Joe Gibbs was happy about having to have made that promise and I think he always in his mind had Patrick Ramsey on a VERY short leash. He never said he would give Ramsey the same time to prove himself unworthy of the starting job as he did for Brunell last year. And since he would have rather had Brunell in there in the first place, why is anyone surprised that the hook came out quickly. I believe that in September 2005, Mark Brunell is equally competent to lead this team to victory as is Patrick Ramsey. Assuming neither gets hurt during the year, that will probably be my assessment in January 2005. What Ramsey brings to the team is the fact that he MIGHT develop into a better QB and be the leader here for 5 or 7 years into the future. That's not gonna happen with Brunell. Joe Gibbs did not make some kind of "deal with the devil" here and he does not "speak with forked tongue." He is more concerned with winning games now than he is with positioning the roster to win some as yet unscheduled games in 2008. You don't have to like that or agree with that, but I really think that's about all there is to this brouhaha. __________________ The Sports Curmudgeon www.sportscurmudgeon.com But don't get me wrong, I love sports...

09-13-2005, 07:18 PM	#23
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Re: The Twilight Zone I'm not expecting Brunell to light up the stat sheet on Monday night. Maybe just something like 12 of 17, 110 yards and a TD (and NO TURNOVERS). Even less than that perhaps. The star of the game will be Portis. He is and should be the star of all our games. Brunell is just there to help him shine. Ramsey has a lot of potential and seems like a good guy, but if being a good guy is what mattered then NY_Skinsfan might as well start at QB and what good is potential if he doesn't realize it? I really wish that Ramsey had done better this preseason. I wish he had gone out there and said "I've been given this job and now I'm going to show all of you why I deserve it." But he didn't, he didn't seal the deal. __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

09-13-2005, 07:31 PM	#24
skins052bgr8 Special Teams Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Richmond, Va. Age: 49 Posts: 288	Re: The Twilight Zone That being said about Brunell he comes into the cowboys game and plays horrible 2 turnovers, 6 points by field goal, 140 yards passing, and a loss, do you think gibbs pulls him because of the turnovers or the ineffective play. I just do not see it happening. Twilight Zone 8 games at that level and Gibbs finally goes to Campbell and another season lost. That also would then from the previous post make gibbs a hypocrite and his players seeing the QB play at that level and be given another long leash will be the downfall. All hypothetical, but I just wonder what Gibbs does?

09-13-2005, 07:33 PM	#25
RedskinRat Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: I'm in LA, trick! Posts: 8,700	Re: The Twilight Zone He starts Campbell! Yay!

09-13-2005, 07:51 PM	#27
skins052bgr8 Special Teams Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Richmond, Va. Age: 49 Posts: 288	Re: The Twilight Zone Athletic ability no question on a different level, but as far as mistakes that Vick makes as a passing QB very similar to Ramsey. Very ineffective but definitely a playmaker with his legs and threat to run, so the comparison to Vicks passing ability and Ramsey are very comparible. I think the comparison is that Schaub looked so good in preseason and some of the times he came in and Vick struggled in several games with passing. Gibbs unsure with Vick passing as a QB and benches him for Schaub.

The Twilight Zone

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