Why It's Not as Simple as Ws vs Ls

Schneed10 · 09-26-2007, 10:44 AM

Lately on the site, we've all seen plenty of discussion that goes something like this:

- We almost won that game, if we had just done X, we could have won.

- And if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass when he hops. We didn't get it done, that's the bottom line. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, etc. etc.

The latter point is totally true, but only true when reviewing the game in RETROSPECT. Bottom line, we didn't get it done against the Giants. That's fine, I have no problem with that statement.

But the What-If game (what if we handed to Sellers instead of Betts) still plays an important role. The What-If game is not intended to look at the games that have been played already; it is intended to assess our chances at winning the games YET TO BE PLAYED.

I ask you this: if we lost 24-3 to the Giants, with an offense that looked like noodle-arm Brunell were running the show, and a defense that looked like we had 11 Adam Archuletas on the field, how would you feel about our chances against the Lions?

You can't stop the discussion surrounding the what-ifs from the Giants game. You can't say "we didn't get it done, that's all that matters." The point is we were in the game, we were making plays, we were getting turnovers, we got into the end zone, we showed life in a 2-minute drill. Those positive signs are all indications that we have a chance against the Lions.

I'd be willing to bet that the reason we have so many damn panicky fans around these parts is because they're only looking at the result of the game, and not deeply enough at the way it was played. The way you lose is indicative of your chances at winning the NEXT game. If you played well, and just a few things here and there could have made the difference between a W and a L, then all you need NEXT TIME is a few things here and there.

You don't need to overhaul the team, you don't need to fire the coach, you don't need to change the playcalling. We're not doomed because we lost a real close one. We were VERY MUCH in the game, and while that may not count for a W, believe it or not, that counts for something as we move on to next week.

Rant over.

Stacks42 · 09-26-2007, 10:54 AM

The reason everyone is panicking is that the skins lost to a team they should have beat. They lost to the worst def in the league, our def couldnt shut down the g-men with no running game to speak of, an injured WR and an injured QB. And to make it worse we lost when we had a lead a halftime. I dont think "the sky is falling" but under gibb's tenure this seems to be a pattern, but hey they played their guts out and im proud of them.

MTK · 09-26-2007, 11:00 AM

Good points Schneed. I agree with the point that we have to consider the big picture and too many people are focused only on the fact that we lost.

And is any one really shocked that the Giants played well against us? They always seem to raise their game a notch against us, and considering their backs were against the wall and their season was on the line I can't say I was too surprised with the way they played.

redsk1 · 09-26-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stacks42

The reason everyone is panicking is that the skins lost to a team they should have beat. They lost to the worst def in the league, our def couldnt shut down the g-men with no running game to speak of, an injured WR and an injured QB. And to make it worse we lost when we had a lead a halftime. I dont think "the sky is falling" but under gibb's tenure this seems to be a pattern, but hey they played their guts out and im proud of them.

Agree. It's more that there is a trend w/ our Redskins that we sit on leads (whatever the reason is...being too conservative...not having an established QB...fill in the blank) & don't score points. This has been a trend since Gibbs came back for whatever reason. It needs to to be fixed soon.

Schneed10 · 09-26-2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsk1

Agree. It's more that there is a trend w/ our Redskins that we sit on leads (whatever the reason is...being too conservative...not having an established QB...fill in the blank) & don't score points. This has been a trend since Gibbs came back for whatever reason. It needs to to be fixed soon.

I agree that we tend to get conservative with leads, and it is troubling. Then again, if we had just made a first down or two in the third quarter, things might have been different.

It's a troubling trend, but we still didn't lose in a fashion that makes me say "OH MY GOD WE SUCK SO BAD WE'RE NEVER GOING TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS!"

Keep in mind, we lost to Oakland in 2005 and then later reeled off 5 wins. We absolutely should have beaten the Giants, just as we absolutely should have beaten the Raiders. But as we saw in 2005, it's not the end of the world. I still like our chances against Detroit.

gibbsisgod · 09-26-2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I agree that we tend to get conservative with leads, and it is troubling. Then again, if we had just made a first down or two in the third quarter, things might have been different.

It's a troubling trend, but we still didn't lose in a fashion that makes me say "OH MY GOD WE SUCK SO BAD WE'RE NEVER GOING TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS!"

Keep in mind, we lost to Oakland in 2005 and then later reeled off 5 wins. We absolutely should have beaten the Giants, just as we absolutely should have beaten the Raiders. But as we saw in 2005, it's not the end of the world. I still like our chances against Detroit.

Its funny how you bring up the Raider game in '05. The very next game was against the Chargers, ANd like this past week I was there to watch the Redskins blow a 17-3 lead only to lose in OT. That was the last game we lost in the '05 regular season. Sure this loss hurts, but we don't already have 2 wins by luck. We are a good (not great) team and this will not define our season. If we had lost the previous 2 games in the same fashion, then maybe I would be worried. This is a minor setback, nothing more.

#56fanatic · 09-26-2007, 11:20 AM

It may seem i feel the sky is falling when I bitch about OUR boys. I dont think the sky is falling, let me get that out of the way. (here is comes!!) however, to be considered a legit contender, or even a playoff contender we CAN NOT lose games to teams we should beat. It happened last year (titans, falcons, ect).

when teams evolve into contenders, consistant contenders, the little things that hendered them the previous seasons dont creap up. The Giants game, and to an extent the Eagles game reminded me too much of the stuff that happened last year. time management, costly penalties, bad play calling with the lead.

TheMalcolmConnection · 09-26-2007, 11:22 AM

One thing I think that's being overshadowed too is the extent of the injuries to a LOT of key players.

Stacks42 · 09-26-2007, 11:24 AM

My point is that this team is too complacent, this is the 4th year of JG part deux and the team continues to make the same mistakes, lose games, and lose to teams they should beat. Everyone (including myself) says “they are going to turn it around and make improvements” but when? In the time that Gibbs has been here we have seen two of our cast off coaches become winners (Shottenheimer and Marvin Lewis) they turned perennial losers into powerhouses, and yet we (the skins) still flounder around and remain mediocre, and make excuses. Who does the buck stop with? Im not calling for the coaches head, but when you have four years to turn the ship around, and one of the highest payrolls for both players and coaches, you are expected to win, or at least show a little heart.
Front office mistakes have cost the skins draft picks (Lloyd, Archuletta, and many others), and tons of cap money just to have these guys sit on the bench, when everyone in the league said they wouldn’t fit Skins, boy did we prove them wrong. Who made those calls?
I hope we turn it around, I am a diehard skins fan. After the first two wins everyone at work was proclaiming Superbowl, I didn’t see it, we squeeked by two teams that in my estimation were not that good. We lost to the Giants when we had a lead, and should have put the game away. We left our D on the field and exposed them. If we scored the last touchdown and then won in overtime, I would still have the same questions.
Then next few weeks will show what type of team the Skins are, we are going to face some of the better offenses in the league, if we get a lead we better hold it.

Schneed10 · 09-26-2007, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

It may seem i feel the sky is falling when I bitch about OUR boys. I dont think the sky is falling, let me get that out of the way. (here is comes!!) however, to be considered a legit contender, or even a playoff contender we CAN NOT lose games to teams we should beat. It happened last year (titans, falcons, ect).

when teams evolve into contenders, consistant contenders, the little things that hendered them the previous seasons dont creap up. The Giants game, and to an extent the Eagles game reminded me too much of the stuff that happened last year. time management, costly penalties, bad play calling with the lead.

I've got a problem with the bolded part.

You can consider teams as legit playoff contenders all you want. But in the end, what fans perceive or consider you to be matters NONE. What makes you a playoff contender at the end of the year is having more wins than the other teams.

By your logic, we couldn't be considered playoff contenders after we lost to the Raiders in 2005. Do you think Joe Gibbs cared what they were considered at that point? Hell no, he went out and won 5 straight, made the playoffs, and shut the naysayers the hell up.

There are 13 more games for us to show we're playoff contenders. Based on what I saw this past Sunday, I see no reason to say we've got no shot at the playoffs. In fact, I love our chances.

TheMalcolmConnection · 09-26-2007, 11:27 AM

Is it just me or is it the fact we lost to the Giants at home the reason it stings so much?

MOST of us expected to be 2-1 at this juncture anyway. Would we be singing the same tune if we had lost to the Eagles and beaten the Giants? We'd still be at 2-1.

gibbsisgod · 09-26-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Is it just me or is it the fact we lost to the Giants at home the reason it stings so much?

MOST of us expected to be 2-1 at this juncture anyway. Would we be singing the same tune if we had lost to the Eagles and beaten the Giants? We'd still be at 2-1.

In many fans eyes, you are only as good as your last game....or last play.

Schneed10 · 09-26-2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gibbsisgod

In many fans eyes, you are only as good as your last game....or last play.

I prefer to think you're only as good as your NEXT game.

Stacks42 · 09-26-2007, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Is it just me or is it the fact we lost to the Giants at home the reason it stings so much?

MOST of us expected to be 2-1 at this juncture anyway. Would we be singing the same tune if we had lost to the Eagles and beaten the Giants? We'd still be at 2-1.

I think it was the fact of how the skins lost, they showed so much promise in the first half, only to lose a game which they should have won. This "protect the lead" conservative game that JG gibbs (and staff) plays is almost like a prevent def, attacking the other team is what got you the lead, continue to attack til its over.

Chief X_Phackter · 09-26-2007, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Good points Schneed. I agree with the point that we have to consider the big picture and too many people are focused only on the fact that we lost.

And is any one really shocked that the Giants played well against us? They always seem to raise their game a notch against us, and considering their backs were against the wall and their season was on the line I can't say I was too surprised with the way they played.

I'm not surprised the Giants played well against us, at least in the second half. They do always seem to rise to the occasion. However, I would expect that at home we would put these teams away, backs against the wall or not. They step it up a notch, we step it up a notch higher. That is what good teams do.

I'm not disappointed in our record, there are only five teams in the NFL with a better record right now. I just need to let go of the fact that we should probably be 3-0 and we aren't. The season is young, and we'll get another shot at the Giants. Hopefully we'll have the killer instinct and play like our backs are against the wall in that game, whether they are or not.

09-26-2007, 10:44 AM	#1
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 45 Posts: 12,439	Why It's Not as Simple as Ws vs Ls Lately on the site, we've all seen plenty of discussion that goes something like this: - We almost won that game, if we had just done X, we could have won. - And if a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass when he hops. We didn't get it done, that's the bottom line. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, etc. etc. The latter point is totally true, but only true when reviewing the game in RETROSPECT. Bottom line, we didn't get it done against the Giants. That's fine, I have no problem with that statement. But the What-If game (what if we handed to Sellers instead of Betts) still plays an important role. The What-If game is not intended to look at the games that have been played already; it is intended to assess our chances at winning the games YET TO BE PLAYED. I ask you this: if we lost 24-3 to the Giants, with an offense that looked like noodle-arm Brunell were running the show, and a defense that looked like we had 11 Adam Archuletas on the field, how would you feel about our chances against the Lions? You can't stop the discussion surrounding the what-ifs from the Giants game. You can't say "we didn't get it done, that's all that matters." The point is we were in the game, we were making plays, we were getting turnovers, we got into the end zone, we showed life in a 2-minute drill. Those positive signs are all indications that we have a chance against the Lions. I'd be willing to bet that the reason we have so many damn panicky fans around these parts is because they're only looking at the result of the game, and not deeply enough at the way it was played. The way you lose is indicative of your chances at winning the NEXT game. If you played well, and just a few things here and there could have made the difference between a W and a L, then all you need NEXT TIME is a few things here and there. You don't need to overhaul the team, you don't need to fire the coach, you don't need to change the playcalling. We're not doomed because we lost a real close one. We were VERY MUCH in the game, and while that may not count for a W, believe it or not, that counts for something as we move on to next week. Rant over. __________________ God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.

09-26-2007, 10:54 AM	#2
Stacks42 Impact Rookie Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Arlington Va. Age: 48 Posts: 835	Re: Why It's Not as Simple as Ws vs Ls The reason everyone is panicking is that the skins lost to a team they should have beat. They lost to the worst def in the league, our def couldnt shut down the g-men with no running game to speak of, an injured WR and an injured QB. And to make it worse we lost when we had a lead a halftime. I dont think "the sky is falling" but under gibb's tenure this seems to be a pattern, but hey they played their guts out and im proud of them. __________________ The NEXT special teams coordinator

09-26-2007, 11:00 AM	#3
MTK \m/ Join Date: Feb 2004 Age: 52 Posts: 99,740	Re: Why It's Not as Simple as Ws vs Ls Good points Schneed. I agree with the point that we have to consider the big picture and too many people are focused only on the fact that we lost. And is any one really shocked that the Giants played well against us? They always seem to raise their game a notch against us, and considering their backs were against the wall and their season was on the line I can't say I was too surprised with the way they played. __________________ Support The Warpath! \| Warpath Shop

09-26-2007, 11:20 AM	#7
#56fanatic The Starter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Charlotte NC Age: 50 Posts: 1,801	Re: Why It's Not as Simple as Ws vs Ls It may seem i feel the sky is falling when I bitch about OUR boys. I dont think the sky is falling, let me get that out of the way. (here is comes!!) however, to be considered a legit contender, or even a playoff contender we CAN NOT lose games to teams we should beat. It happened last year (titans, falcons, ect). when teams evolve into contenders, consistant contenders, the little things that hendered them the previous seasons dont creap up. The Giants game, and to an extent the Eagles game reminded me too much of the stuff that happened last year. time management, costly penalties, bad play calling with the lead.

09-26-2007, 11:22 AM	#8
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,254	Re: Why It's Not as Simple as Ws vs Ls One thing I think that's being overshadowed too is the extent of the injuries to a LOT of key players. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

09-26-2007, 11:24 AM	#9
Stacks42 Impact Rookie Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Arlington Va. Age: 48 Posts: 835	Re: Why It's Not as Simple as Ws vs Ls My point is that this team is too complacent, this is the 4th year of JG part deux and the team continues to make the same mistakes, lose games, and lose to teams they should beat. Everyone (including myself) says “they are going to turn it around and make improvements” but when? In the time that Gibbs has been here we have seen two of our cast off coaches become winners (Shottenheimer and Marvin Lewis) they turned perennial losers into powerhouses, and yet we (the skins) still flounder around and remain mediocre, and make excuses. Who does the buck stop with? Im not calling for the coaches head, but when you have four years to turn the ship around, and one of the highest payrolls for both players and coaches, you are expected to win, or at least show a little heart. Front office mistakes have cost the skins draft picks (Lloyd, Archuletta, and many others), and tons of cap money just to have these guys sit on the bench, when everyone in the league said they wouldn’t fit Skins, boy did we prove them wrong. Who made those calls? I hope we turn it around, I am a diehard skins fan. After the first two wins everyone at work was proclaiming Superbowl, I didn’t see it, we squeeked by two teams that in my estimation were not that good. We lost to the Giants when we had a lead, and should have put the game away. We left our D on the field and exposed them. If we scored the last touchdown and then won in overtime, I would still have the same questions. Then next few weeks will show what type of team the Skins are, we are going to face some of the better offenses in the league, if we get a lead we better hold it. __________________ The NEXT special teams coordinator

09-26-2007, 11:27 AM	#11
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 19,254	Re: Why It's Not as Simple as Ws vs Ls Is it just me or is it the fact we lost to the Giants at home the reason it stings so much? MOST of us expected to be 2-1 at this juncture anyway. Would we be singing the same tune if we had lost to the Eagles and beaten the Giants? We'd still be at 2-1. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

Why It's Not as Simple as Ws vs Ls

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