[JoeRedskin]

I am with SkinsFan in that I would like to see some proof that Bush/Cheney lied, i.e. they had false intelligence, knew it was false, and yet presented it as true.

The UN had issued ultimatum after ultimatum after ultimatum to Hussein, he flaunted them again and again. At the same time, the entire world reasonably believed that he had WMD's. I believe that France and Russia were relunctant to act at least in part because they were profiting (quite handsomely) from the oil for for food program.

Anne-Marie Slaughter, president of the American Society of International Law, proposed that the Security Council pass a resolution saying force would be justified if three criteria are met:

1. Be in possession of weapons of mass destruction or clear and convincing evidence of attempts to gain such weapons;

2. Grave and systematic human rights abuses sufficient to demonstrate the absence of any internal constraints on government behavior; and

3. Evidence of aggressive intent with regard to other nations.

Prior to the use of force in Iraq, Iraq fit all three of these criteria.

Believe it or not, with all that said I have very mixed feelings on the Iraq action. Saddam was undoubtedly gaming the west and playing the UN for fools. BUT whether or not he would have actually taken offensive action in the region is debatable.

Also, I agree the situation in Iraq right now is bad but, please, give it some time - Rome wasn't built in a day. This is a country whose entire infrastructure has been wiped away with the removal of the B'aathists. Of course there is going to be unrest, of course there is going to be factionalism, this is a country which has not experienced the "rule of law" in several generations. That does not mean it is doomed to fail. From all that I have read, I don't think the long term outlook is as bleak as you make it Ghost.

Regardless of how we got where we are today in Iraq, the situation presents an opportunity, just as the end of WWII did, to cultivate a democracy where none existed before and to create a stable and peaceful country. I, for one, am not yet willing to pass judgment on our success or failure of this goal.