Quote:
Originally Posted by djnemo65
It's one thing to say religion is a personal matter and that it is condescending to judge someone else's private beliefs. Fine. But we have just lived through an 8 year administration in which religious beliefs were pushed to the forefront of not only government discourse, but government policy; in which Biblical passages were invoked to justify the loosening of environmental regulations; in which a war in the Middle East was at least supported by people who, fluent in Biblical prophecy, believe the world will end in our lifetime, and that the US must expedite this prophecy through military force; in which the United States fell behind the rest of the world in medical stem-cell technology for religious reasons; in which our President claimed to speak with God and spoke often of his relationship with Him, once saying that he "believes God wants me to be president"; in which family planning and AIDS prevention overseas was hamstrung by requirements to teach abstinence education; in which hawkish and corrupt politicians like Tom Delay claimed to know and work for the will of God.
Are all or even most religious people culpable in this? Of course not. But you have to understand the context in which this new atheistic virulence has arisen. While I question the effectiveness of the tactics of someone like Richard Dawkins or Maher, both of whom come off as incredibly condescending, we can't just ignore the climate in which they speak. Secular people feel as if they are under attack and they are pushing back.
Finally I don't get getting offended when one's faith is questioned. The truly religious people I have known in my lifetime have welcomed such challenges, and found them to only strengthen their faith. It's the people who are harboring doubts inside who take their ball and go home. From my limited life experience at least.
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Well said djnemo. I will argue that as an atheist I have seen some people in my group, which I presume is your group as well, that are just as stupid and stubborn as the evangelicals that refuse to believe in evolution. Though this is still a minority among the non-religous there are still many who will watch films like Zeitgiest and The God Who Wasn't There and think that these are reputable films. They don't even bother to check up if the claims of these films are valid. As a result they try and debate with Christians how Horus is exactly like Jesus (of couse this is just one of many examples).
If it were up to me at the very least I would like to show people that the so called Holy Books are written by men and taking them literally could lead one to do things that no normal person in this world would do. Why if I wanted I could justify a war against non-christians I would just have to cite passages of the bible to fanitcal believers. Never mind convincing people that homsexuality is wrong. I could even justify taking virgins from a conqured village if I so pleased or slaves for that matter.
However I refuse to believe for a second that any sane person, christian, atheist, buddhist, etc, condones these passages. Unfortunately sometimes people just need to hear "the Bible says it" from a priest or a reverand and that ends up being a selling point on certain issues like homsexuality and sexual eduction. Why just this past offseason on ES I saw a guy who randomly started a thread basically stating that he believed every word in the Bible was true. Then when confronted with outdated passages he ended up just brushing them off.
Personally I don't even care to change peoples religous beliefs or sects (for example changing a christian to a jew, an atheist, or a muslim). So long as people have basic rights I'm happy. However the insane religous right in this country seemed to be gaining ground for a while and the ironic thing is that most non-religous types along with moderate christians are sick of this, "I'm speaking with God" type attitude that parts of the far religous right feels is acceptable in their endorsement of what I would consider small mindness and bigotry.
I also feel djnemo is right from the perspective of questioning ones faith in that those that can explain it and debate it develop stronger faith. There are some that can't even begin to question because their religous sect might consider that blasphmous. If anything discussion of the metaphysical universe should always be allowed so long as the people discussing it can remain level headed and civil.