[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I am not saying I would be right. Hell I speed constantly. When I travel to El Paso, I drive a MINIMUM of 85mph. Usually 90-95mph. The rules are the rules, and if I got caught then I'd expect to be disciplined...same would apply to this gun issue.

Okay. Fair enough.

Originally Posted by jsarno

You missed the point. I am not saying that everything the government puts into action is something that would be a slippery slope.
I am against anything they would try to pass that infinges on rights. For instance, You do not have the right to drive 100mph because it's not your land. If it was, then you could drive as fast as you want. You went a little overboard there buddy. You are assuming.

I am sorry, I just don't understand what point you are trying to make. You original statement was "[w]hen the government starts enforcing what THEY THINK is best for you. That's a nasty slippery slope". To me that is a ludicrous statement b/c it encompasses the entirety of government actions.

If you are saying that, "when government begins to infringe on your constitutionally guarranteed rights, we are heading down a slippery slope". I would still argue that the qualifications to the underlying assumptions of that statement are numerous and invalidate the conclusion. First, as with the 2A debate, the question of what are your "constitutional rights" is something continually the topic of debate and evolution. Second, even once defined, your "constitutional rights" are subject to regulation. There are simply no constitutional rights that are are unlimited. Your freedom of speech does not entitle you to shout "Fire" in a crowded theater. Thus, your "freedom of speech" is limited and regulated for the safety of others.

It seems to me that, what you see as a "slippery slope", is simply the government performing its requisite balancing act.

Originally Posted by jsarno

maximum individual freedom just stood out to me. Cause in the cases we have disagreed, you have been opposed to that.

I have never been opposed to maximum individual freedom. I firmly believe that it is the essence of our form of government and necessary for the good of society as a whole. The problem, of course, is that your complete, unfettered freedom will inevitably clash with the complete, unfettered freedom of another (in the words of Isiah Berlin - the fox's idea of freedom is entirely different from the sheep's idea of freedom). Thus, our government exists to balance the inevitable conflicts that arise between you and others when each party is exercising what it views as its constitutional rights. In such clashes, and just as inevitable as the conflicts, is the result that the "constitutional rights" of one or more people will be subject to limitation.

The whole 2A debate is exactly a repesentation of this clash - You assert that you are guarranteed the "right" to "keep and bear" firearms - others argue that they have the "right" to limit the spread of firearms by limiting their ownership to those individuals who are part of a "well-regulated militia". Each side has legitimate constitutional arguments and support. Thus, it is up to the Supreme Court to determine the position that more closely reflects the Constitutional guarrantees. In doing so, the losing side will, inevitably, claim that their rights are being infringed upon when, in fact, the SC is just determining what rights are guarranteed and just how far those guarantees extend before they infringe upon others rights.

Originally Posted by jsarno

You should never ever make a decision out of fear, and this topic has a ton of fear behind it. The main argument for getting rid of guns is bad people are doing bad things with them. Well, you're right. But why try a assbackward way to fix it? The correct thing to do is punish the hell out of the person that abuses his gun rights. make the punishment severe and maybe these issues would cease. However, if guns were banished, all that would do is hurt the honest people. The honest, law abiding people are not the ones causing issues with guns, but the laws would ONLY affect them. That doesn't make any sense.

Generally, I agree with the assertions in this statement. My differences with it are laid out in several posts earlier in the thread and I am simply not going to rehash the areas of disagreement. Simply put, I oppose the banning of personal ownership of firearms but believe that the general public has the right to reasonably regulate their use, storage and qualifications of ownership.

Originally Posted by jsarno

To be fair, it's been exactly two topics I said things would be a slippery slope, and both have similarities as to why I said that.

Yes, and in each case it appeared to me that the "slippery slope" argument was invoked as an objection to the every day actions of our government as it attempts to balance individual rights v. collective rights through regulation.