[Daseal]

Backrow: I don't agree with every war, but I do think that it should be avoided at all costs. Being in the service yourself I think you can appreciate the fact that I try to avoid war. No one want's to be put in imminent danger if it can be solved with a little bit of tact and a few concessions by both sides. I agree with the war on Afghanistan, I agree with World War II, I agree with wars when they are necessary to stop an imminent threat, we are attacked, or an ally needs help. I do however disagree with frivilous wars based on bad intelligence. I think that going to war is something you better be damn sure of before you start sending people's families in to battle. I came across a bit too harsh. I don't "hate" Christians. I think that Christianity is a great outlet for people to gather and gain spiritual health, but it's when people depend on it too much, or breathe too much into it that I get put out. The average Christian, I have nothing against, just like the average Muslim, Jew, Gypsy, whatever. It's when someone takes it to an unreal level that I get upset. The main difference is I can't bring myself to support a President who hasn't done that much in office. I wasn't exactly a huge Clinton fan, I did like the economy, I could care less about the blow job, but he did an even worse job than Bush when it came to the environmental issues.

Skinsfan: you're right. Offiss and I are on polar opposites of this issue. That's just how the ball tumbles. It's amazing how two people (Offiss and I) can agree fairly often on certain matters, but when it comes to politics we have totally opposite opinions. Part of the reason I like this country is people that have totally different opinions can be respected for having them.

Offiss: I'm suprised a Patriot such as yourself will call the man who singlehandedly sparked the revolition a moron. Without Thomas Paine and his propaganda filled pamphlet entitled "Common Sense" we would be discussing this over tea and crumpets (sorry for the stereotype, anon!). He was a great friend of Ben Franklins who brought him to this country. His paper sold like hotcakes and with it people made their congressmen vote for revolution, in states, such as Virginia, that weren't for revolution at the time. We would probably have never broken free of Brittish control if it weren't for Common Sense. The man is a great author and one of the most gifted minds to ever set foot in the country. Common Sense is not a long read, I suggest you pick it up sometime.

I'm not trying to conjure up sympathy for my stance. It's my stance, and unless I get overwhelmingly convinced the other way, I'm not going to change it. People can take my opinions or leave them, however they are my opinions and you'll have to live with this. Muslims don't want war, I promise you that. At least not most of them. There are a few crazy ones, just like there are a few crazy Christians. Did everyone say OH CHRISTIANS ARE AWFUL when Timmithy McVeigh (sp?) bombed Oklahoma? I don't think so! They said it's a crazy white guy, his religion didn't even come into play. I'm not trying to have the Muslim's come off as scott free. They make their fair share of mistakes. However, I don't have time to play both sides of the ball, and since everyone is taking your side, I want to illustrate the other. I don't see any problem in that what so ever. Look at Israel, when Britain took that land, if I were living there, I'd be mad too! You're telling me if Canada came in and said we're taking Colorodo for the Indians, because it's their favorite skiing resort (I know it's a bad analogy to compare holy lands to ski resorts, but stick with me) you'd be mad. And you don't even live in Colorodo! I don't mean to bash America. Sure, we have problems, but we also have huge upsides. We're all aware of this, and I'm not going to keep coming. If I come off as an America basher, I'm sorry. A Bush basher, definitly! The US does a lot of humanitarian aid, which I applaud them for but 40 mil more would be incrediable!

If you think that you "threw my argument back in my face" I don't think you did nearly that. I haven't said I hate anybody, at least not in the sense you refer to. I respect everyone on this board, and their opinion, not to mention your right to it! America is far from the most tolerent country. Almost any of the major countries in Europe don't care what religion you are. There is a lot of racism in our country, there's no way to deny it. It's somewhat natural in my opinion, but something we must overcome. As said above, most of the world is Muslim, so they obviously are doing something right. Not bad for being "godless" heathens, right?

Offiss, do you know what Agnostic is? It's not Atheist like often believed. It means I believe in a god, but I'm not sure exactly what. I feel that every man builds his own hybrid religion and as long as you live a good life and try your best to stick true to your morals and scrupples, then there will be no trouble in the afterlife.

JoeRedskin: I used the wrong word when I said that religions were founded by war. I didn't mean it quite like that, but most religious books have a lot of battles and fighting in them, do you not agree? I mean, Jesus himself died in quite a gruesome manner, there were wars, and religion has done a lot to fuel tensions leading to wars. I don't think someone could argue the other way very well.

I do agree that FOR THE MOST PART organized religion has done good. However, it has also done a lot of bad things. I mean warm meals for the homeless, blankets, food drives, the charitiable things that Churches do are countless. I thank them for that. However, organized religion has also caused a lot of suffering throughout the world for some times. Some of the nastiest, longest wars are because of religion. Look at the Middle East now and see how things are happening.

I would love to talk to you about religion sometime, JoeRedskin. I have quite a few questions for you, things I have always wondered. Perhaps you can clear some of them up for me. Do you have AIM? If so, try IMing me Daseal0