Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

I have seen this in a couple of places - QB's being criticized for "patting the ball" as they go back to pass. Anybody know why this is considered a bad habit?

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

I am with you JoeRedskin, I don't really care what a QB's quirks are as long as they throw accurate passes. I guess some would say "patting the ball" slows down a QB's delivery, or tips the defense off to something, but I think making a bad decision, like throwing an INT is much worse.

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

Increases the time it takes the QB to relase the ball

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

I figured they were going through their progressions, looking the field over.

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

Elway did it all the time, I don't see what the big deal is either.

It's sort of like a rhythm thing in my opinion.

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

From what I understand "patting the ball" is often a tell-tale sign that the QB is about to release the ball so it gives the defender (of the intended target) that extra second needed to break on the pass and get the pick

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]From what I understand "patting the ball" is often a tell-tale sign that the QB is about to release the ball so it gives the defender (of the intended target) that extra second needed to break on the pass and get the pick[/QUOTE]

Bingo.

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

It would be interesting to see if there is a difference between the throws when the ball is "patted" as opposed to when the QB just drops back, cocks the arm and fires. Is there a difference in velocity or accuracy, or a difference in how quickly the defense breaks to the ball? Look for it in the game on Friday evening. Both of our QB's are ball patters.

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

Patting the ball is irrelevant to throwing mechanic's, no different than a baseball player moving, or waving his bat, as Matty said it's nothing more than a rhythm thing, a QB once he spots his target needs to be prepared to throw the ball, patting the ball allows the QB to continually reset his mechanics.

If a defender reacted to a ball pat he's in a lot of trouble because a ball pat is not a tip on where the ball is going, QB's very often can, and will, pat the ball looking one way and then throwing somewhere else.

Ramsey's problem mechanic wise has nothing to do with a ball pat, it's his footwork, his happy feet in the pocket right now are sometimes inhibiting his throwing mechanics, which means he's not planting and pushing of his back foot and following through with his throws, he's basically just using his arm without the rest of his body, Rypien before his super bowl year used to have a bad habit throwing while he was falling backwards, he to was afraid of the rush, not until the line created a ton of time and a huge pocket for him to throw did he finally excel, something about the structure of Gibbs passing game really scares QB's.

Personally I would have him dropping back a little further on pass play's which hopefully give him a little more confidence in stepping up into the pocket, as well as seeing and reading the defense a little better, that's why I kind of like the shotgun for Ramsey, we have to find a comfort spot for him as soon as possible, he has the talent, but he's still struggling to master Gibbs offense.

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

Nice explanation, offiss. I agree with your assessment.

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

stepping too far back sometimes plays right into the defensive end's hands, especially the newer speed types going around the edge. knowing when to step back into the pocket without looking is key to getting you that extra time.

that said, what IS up with Ramsey's feet, he's like dancing a jig out there but he's not going to avoid anybody with his 'mobility'. is this an old Ramsey habit or side effect from the Spurrier "Saving Patrick Ramsey" days?

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

[QUOTE=offiss]Patting the ball is irrelevant to throwing mechanic's, no different than a baseball player moving, or waving his bat, as Matty said it's nothing more than a rhythm thing, a QB once he spots his target needs to be prepared to throw the ball, patting the ball allows the QB to continually reset his mechanics.

If a defender reacted to a ball pat he's in a lot of trouble because a ball pat is not a tip on where the ball is going, QB's very often can, and will, pat the ball looking one way and then throwing somewhere else.

Ramsey's problem mechanic wise has nothing to do with a ball pat, it's his footwork, his happy feet in the pocket right now are sometimes inhibiting his throwing mechanics, which means he's not planting and pushing of his back foot and following through with his throws, he's basically just using his arm without the rest of his body, Rypien before his super bowl year used to have a bad habit throwing while he was falling backwards, he to was afraid of the rush, not until the line created a ton of time and a huge pocket for him to throw did he finally excel, something about the structure of Gibbs passing game really scares QB's.

Personally I would have him dropping back a little further on pass play's which hopefully give him a little more confidence in stepping up into the pocket, as well as seeing and reading the defense a little better, that's why I kind of like the shotgun for Ramsey, we have to find a comfort spot for him as soon as possible, he has the talent, but he's still struggling to master Gibbs offense.[/QUOTE]

This is probably the best take on the matter.

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

Patting the ball, like it's already been said here, slows down your release time.

If you watch Peyton Manning he never pats the ball. It's just one smooth throwing motion. I don't think it's anything that separtes the great QBs from the average ones, but it's something that Peyton doesn't do. But how many Peytons are there anyway?

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

Offiss, what do you mean by "something about the structure of Gibbs passing game really scares QB's."?

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

Everybody talks about "happy feet" and this-n-that, but I don't think that has anything to do with the problems he is experiencing. Sure his feet move a bit, but they move whether he's throwing a forty-yard bomb or an INT.

"Happy feet" is the least of Ramsey's problems, I think the bottom line is his decision-making needs to improve. I think that once the regular season rolls around when all bets are off, we can put to rest all of this Ramsey stuff because we'll be running an offense to WIN and not just to evaluate who we want to keep on our roster or what kind of plays we need to run.

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Offiss, what do you mean by "something about the structure of Gibbs passing game really scares QB's."?[/QUOTE]


Here's what I think goes on, I never had the privelage of seeing a game in person that Gibbs coached so I could see the whole field and the entire play unfold to really get a defienate feel, but my thought is this, Gibbs pass routes take a little more time to develope, he makes his QB's look deep first, the QB knows this will take a little extra time, he also know's he only has so much time, he know's Gibbs want's him to hang in the pocket, the problem arrises in the QB's head that he has waited so long for a WR to break that if he's not open he's in big trouble, which breeds happy feet, the QB starts moving his feet in anticipation of a quick get away, or to try and cushion the blow he thinks he's about to take, the entire offense really has to earn the trust of the QB before he's effective, it's a beautiful thing when all cylinders are firing, as well as almost unstoppable as we have seen in other season's with Gibbs, but it's not easy by any means, this is not a west coast offense where the QB is getting the ball out of there after 3 steps, you can't get by with a week arm in Gibbs offense, even if your a running QB your limited by the structure of the passing game and need to stay put in the pocket for the offense to really excel. I do believe it's something along those lines.

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

I agree with all of that except the part about "happy feet". In my post above we've described this as being a problem. It hasn't been a problem of Ramsey throwing INTs only when his feet are moving like crazy, it seems more to be a problem of throwing into double/triple coverage. Again, I think that once Gibbs goes to a more balanced attack during the regular season this will work itself out, but we always talk about "happy feet" like that's the reason he throws INTs.

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Everybody talks about "happy feet" and this-n-that, but I don't think that has anything to do with the problems he is experiencing. Sure his feet move a bit, but they move whether he's throwing a forty-yard bomb or an INT.

"Happy feet" is the least of Ramsey's problems, I think the bottom line is his decision-making needs to improve. I think that once the regular season rolls around when all bets are off, we can put to rest all of this Ramsey stuff because we'll be running an offense to WIN and not just to evaluate who we want to keep on our roster or what kind of plays we need to run.[/QUOTE]


I think the happy feet are partly a byproduct of his decision making or lack there of, which hopefully will be rectified as he becomes more, and more, comfortable with the offense, I know Theisman said it took him a year before he really understood and got comfortable in this offense.

I also agree with you on the fact we are not playing to win right now, Ramsey will be a little better off when they count. Remember Williams ran a defense last pre-season designed to allow players to get beat, he put them in worse case scenerio sitiuations to toughen them up and prepare them for anything when the games count, Gibbs could very well be doing the same thing right now, even though he want's Ramsey to succeed under those circumstances.

Re: Question about QB throwing mechanics
 

Exactly. That's what I think is going on right now. I don't think Gibbs is setting Ramsey up for failure. I just think he's giving him a chance to see what kind of deep passes Ramsey throws the best.