QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

I'm not the biggest fan of Patrick, but I do like him and I like him even more after doing some research.

Has there been a better QB drafted since he was picked 02?

You can argue Leftwich, but his numbers are'n't great. Carr isn't even close and he had the luxury of stability that Patrick didn't have. Harrington? nope.

Big Ben? I don't think so. He had a number 1 D behind him, two stud running backs, and a coach that has been around for over a decade.

I know the verdict is out on last years and the year before QB's drafted. . .but out of 44 QB's drafted since 02, he is the best one.

Go back to the 2000 draft and all you got ahead of him is Brady, Pennington, Bulger, Vick, Brooks and Brees and thats a short list ahead of PR.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

Maybe, maybe not...
Ramsey is very gifted, but you can have all the talent in the world, if you can't win games, then you suck. We had like 8 or more games where we lost by 7 points or less. He need to win those games for us, lead the team to victory. If he can get do this, then maybe he'll win me over

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

If you are gonna say no to Big Ben because he had a great team behind him than you have to give Leftwich the benefit of the doubt about his numbers because he didnt have a very good team behind him. For that matter neither did Carr or Harrington.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

Hey, let's not forget that PR had a killer D behind him and arguably a better RB in Clinton Portis. However...all of his WRs really sucked, and that's the big difference. Ward, Burress and Randle El could arguably be one of the top 3 WR trios in the league. Who did PR have? Coles, Gardner and Taylor...laughable, man!

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

Sorry but I think I would take Big Ben or Leftwitch over Ramsey. Just on what they have done so far.
Don't get me wrong. I really like Patrick. But it's time for him to step it up a notch.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

[QUOTE=irish]If you are gonna say no to Big Ben because he had a great team behind him than you have to give Leftwich the benefit of the doubt about his numbers because he didnt have a very good team behind him. For that matter neither did Carr or Harrington.[/QUOTE]

Big Ben could not have asked for a better situation when the Steelers drafted him. Ben was drafted into a thirteen year old system that had the same head coach with the same philosiphy. Also the Steelers werent really as bad as there record had them.

But as for giving Leftwich, Carr, and Harrington the benefit of the doubt, why? If anything they were placed in similar situations that Ramsey has ben put in, with the exception that Carr and Harrington had the team built around them. Oh and not to mention that Leftwich, Carr, and Harrington didnt have to learn two totaly different offensive systems either.

Is Ramsey the best QB that has ben drafted in the past few years? I really dont know, but givien the adversity that he has ben threw, he certianly has my attention for this season...

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

Big Ben is definitely couple of notches above Ramsey and I don't mean high wise. And incase you forgot we've had solid D the past couple of years! Our problem has always been offense.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

[QUOTE=HermosaBeach Skin Fan]...laughable, man![/QUOTE]

Is that from Big Lebowski? If so, damn funny, if not, I feel stupid.

Anyways, real good points, I like the different angles from which everyone looked at that.

I do agree with the argument regarding the close games we have lost, a good QB has to find a way to win those games...

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

I'd take Leftwich, Roethlisberger, and maybe Carson Palmer over Ramsey.

Palmer has only played 13 games, and in those games he had 18 TDs and 18 INTs, 2900 passing yards, and above 60% completion percentage. And that was his first year starting.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

[QUOTE=gortiz]Is that from Big Lebowski? If so, damn funny, if not, I feel stupid.

Anyways, real good points, I like the different angles from which everyone looked at that.

I do agree with the argument regarding the close games we have lost, a good QB has to find a way to win those games...[/QUOTE]

Whereas what we have here? A bunch of fig-eaters wearing towels on their heads, trying to find reverse in a Soviet tank. This is not a worthy adversary.

What's this day of rest? What's this bull? I don't care! It don't matter to Jesus. But you're not foolin' me, man. You might fool the guys in the league office, but you don't fool Jesus. This bush league psyche-out stuff. Laughable, man - ha ha! I would have done you in the asss Saturday. I do you in the asss next Wednesday instead. Wooo! You got a date Wednesday, baby!

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

I'd take Big Ben and Leftwich over Ramsey (and I'm Ramseyfan). That said, we need a little bit of something we haven't had lately here in Washington.....patience. Young quarterbacks need game time on a consistent basis (not 2 weeks here, 6 weeks there, and 5 weeks here). We've never really given Ramsey a shot.

He had probably the worst supporting offensive cast in his rookie season (with Davis injured and Gardner as his only wideout). He had piss poor protection in his second year, no running game (remember Canidate), and a poor defense (ranked something like #23). He was given just a few games to prove himself last year against some damn good teams (i.e. Eagles twice, Steelers, etc) and did well against the bad ones (i.e. 49ers). He's had three offensive coordinators, three different running backs, two different head coaches, two different offensive systems, and a poorly-coached offensive line (until last year when the O-line was without a real center or right tackle).

I know he didn't perform well last preseason, has been inconsistent, and is far from a Pro Bowler, but lets try being patient, have faith in Ramsey and give him the time and support he deserves. The guy has been beaten down like a rag doll and gets right back up every time. He CERTAINLY has the talent to be a very, very good starter and just needs the vision and football smarts (starts) to be great. He's a tough, gun-slinging, hard working, and smart (yes, he's very intelligent) quarterback.

I have a lot of faith in Ramsey. If he's offered protection, a decent running game (4.0 ypc), and a decent offensive system (one that goes down field AND offers some protection), he'll give us a winning record.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

I'm not sure about Patrick, but that's probably more a result of the constant turmoil that has surrounded the franchise than any failing on his part. When I think of Patrick's potential I remember the game against the Titans his rookie year when he threw for 300 yards and looked like a confident strong armed qb.

I don't think we've had a system conducive to success since Patrick has been here. I do think we are now building towards that success, and hopefully Ramsey is a part of it. I think he can be a good qb in this league, with Portis behind him he'll have a ton of opportunities to look good the only real question being can he capitalize on them. Last year he couldn't, but with another year in Gibbs' system, maybe he'll come around. We won't contend again until we improve our passing game, and Ramsey is the key to that improvement because while we all hope he can play better there isn't much to show that he will.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

I love Ramsey, but if I had my pick, Letwitch and Rothlesberger in a heart beat. I dont care if Big Bens numbers were 7-7 for 38 yards and a TD, he won 16 straight, so I'll take that any day. Good numbers or not, Leftwitch is a hell of a QB. Other than that, you can really make the argument either way. Since I'm such a huge Ramsey guy, I'll say him over everyone else but theres some guys that its a real toss up. They are all still so young; thats why I hate it when people are so critical of Ramsey somtimes. Harrington, Carr, Ramsey, and even Carson Palmer are coming into big years of their career in terms of proving what they have or lack thereof.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

[QUOTE=saden1]Big Ben is definitely couple of notches above Ramsey and I don't mean high wise. And incase you forgot we've had solid D the past couple of years! Our problem has always been offense.[/QUOTE]
i like ramsey, just sad that spurrior shot him with that matador passing scheme...and i do not think patrick will ever be the same. THANKS ALOT STEVE!!!!!! :Flush: :smashfrea

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

This will be Ramseys year, if not, then we need to hope that we can finally find a stable Qb fo rthis sytem...someone that the fans can be proud of and rally around

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

[QUOTE=saden1]Big Ben is definitely couple of notches above Ramsey and I don't mean high wise. And incase you forgot we've had solid D the past couple of years! Our problem has always been offense.[/QUOTE]

solid D???

last year: #3
year prior: #25

NOT SOLID, sorry.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

[QUOTE=giacomo2]i like ramsey, just sad that spurrior shot him with that matador passing scheme...and i do not think patrick will ever be the same. THANKS ALOT STEVE!!!!!! :Flush: :smashfrea[/QUOTE]


In a totatly unrelated question, did you bet the kentucky derby?? Giacomo is your s/n so I was just wondering, and i'm pretty sure i've seen you on here for a while.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

I think that Big Ben gets too much credit. People fail to see that he landed in the best situation that a young and talented QB could land in. Look at the Steelers team all-around, they had a very good WR group with Pro-Bowler Hines Ward, Burress, and Randle El.

Then he had two very big power-backs to hand off to in Jerome Bettis and Duce Staley, not to mention the o-line, which had like 1 or 2 pro-bowlers. Big Ben also had the #1 D to fall back on if he threw an INT. You could even see if you watched any steeler game, if Ben threw an Int it did not bother him because he knew how good the D was. I may be wrong but the D also supported like 2 or 3 pro-bowlers.

Also Big Ben had a very good special teams unit to give him a short field to work with.

I am not saying that Ben sucks, or that he is not a good young talented QB. Yeah the Steelers did have 16 straight victories, but not just do to Ben's QB play but rather than the whole team being a fundamentaly sound team at every level, offense, deffense and special teams. Ben did make very good choices and looked very good in during games, but like I mentioned he came in to a system allready established. Would the Steelers have won 16 straight had Maddox not been injured, I dont know, but something tells me that the Steelers still would have made the playoffs...

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

[QUOTE=giacomo2]i like ramsey, just sad that spurrior shot him with that matador passing scheme...and i do not think patrick will ever be the same. THANKS ALOT STEVE!!!!!! :Flush: :smashfrea[/QUOTE]


It wasen't like Gibbs did him any favor's last season.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

[QUOTE=saden1]Big Ben is definitely couple of notches above Ramsey and I don't mean high wise. And incase you forgot we've had solid D the past couple of years! Our problem has always been offense.[/QUOTE]


Circumstances dictate much of the time a player's productivity, Ramsey is just as capable of doing the same thing's BB is, the problem has been the players and the coaching around him, I have no doubt that Ramsey will be very successful in the NFL, whether it's with us is still to be determined.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

Let's not forget how many bad games Big Ben had. He only really played great in 2-3 games. Most of the time his amazing running game and his good (yet overrated) defense saved him (They were #1 because they saw less snaps than any other defense. Skins were best in YPP.) Ben did do some impressive things as a rookie, but Ward, Burress, and Randal-El along with Staley/Bettis, one of the leagues best lines, and a good solid coaching staff is a dream for a rookie QB to drop into.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

[QUOTE=HermosaBeach Skin Fan]Whereas what we have here? A bunch of fig-eaters wearing towels on their heads, trying to find reverse in a Soviet tank. This is not a worthy adversary.

What's this day of rest? What's this bull? I don't care! It don't matter to Jesus. But you're not foolin' me, man. You might fool the guys in the league office, but you don't fool Jesus. This bush league psyche-out stuff. Laughable, man - ha ha! I would have done you in the asss Saturday. I do you in the asss next Wednesday instead. Wooo! You got a date Wednesday, baby![/QUOTE]

classic huh? ha ha ha ha

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

I just can't get over the INT he threw against PHI in the back of the endzone. :oink:

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

[QUOTE=Daseal]Let's not forget how many bad games Big Ben had. He only really played great in 2-3 games. Most of the time his amazing running game and his good (yet overrated) defense saved him (They were #1 because they saw less snaps than any other defense. Skins were best in YPP.) Ben did do some impressive things as a rookie, but Ward, Burress, and Randal-El along with Staley/Bettis, one of the leagues best lines, and a good solid coaching staff is a dream for a rookie QB to drop into.[/QUOTE]

Our D was number 1 in YPP? That is a freaking awesome stat! Can you imagine how good they can be if our offense becomes even mediocre to keep the D off the field more.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

[QUOTE=manicd][QUOTE=Daseal]Let's not forget how many bad games Big Ben had. He only really played great in 2-3 games. Most of the time his amazing running game and his good (yet overrated) defense saved him (They were #1 because they saw less snaps than any other defense. Skins were best in YPP.) Ben did do some impressive things as a rookie, but Ward, Burress, and Randal-El along with Staley/Bettis, one of the leagues best lines, and a good solid coaching staff is a dream for a rookie QB to drop into.[/QUOTE]

Our D was number 1 in YPP? That is a freaking awesome stat! Can you imagine how good they can be if our offense becomes even mediocre to keep the D off the field more.[/QUOTE]

That's the real amazing stat from last year. Pittsburgh's running offense was #2 in the league last year - but more importantly (for ball control purposes) led the league in attempts. They also completed 63.7% of their passes - another key time of possesion stat. They beat us by 147 yards over a 16 game season.

Compared to Pittsburgh, we spotted our opponents an extra 2:40 of offense, and we lost [u]seven games[/u] by one score or less. There's the reason for hope.

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

[QUOTE=HermosaBeach Skin Fan]Whereas what we have here? A bunch of fig-eaters wearing towels on their heads, trying to find reverse in a Soviet tank. This is not a worthy adversary.

What's this day of rest? What's this bull? I don't care! It don't matter to Jesus. But you're not foolin' me, man. You might fool the guys in the league office, but you don't fool Jesus. This bush league psyche-out stuff. Laughable, man - ha ha! I would have done you in the asss Saturday. I do you in the asss next Wednesday instead. Wooo! You got a date Wednesday, baby![/QUOTE]

Shutup Donny!

Re: QB's since Ramsey's draft
 

Carr and Ramsey had something in common....a weak offensive line........ours will improve this year with Jansen back and Rabach at center. Carr has no time to throw....he's gotten some unfair criticism, hopefully, the guy they drafted this year will give him some protection.....

I like Big Ben......Harrington has the smell of a bust....I'm not a big fan of Leftwich I saw a few games where he played terrible.......