the all encompassing 'discuss all things offseason' thread sponsored by Paintrain
 

Continued from here [url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/56052-jay-gruden-hired-head-coach-redskins-51.html[/url]

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Lol, I'm so honored.

Since the pressure is now on, here's an interesting look at how the varied offseason approaches between us and Seattle have led us to divergent paths.

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/4989/redskins-seahawks-took-different-paths]Redskins, Seahawks took different paths - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]

I'm sure this will just open up the draft vs. free agency discussion again.

Rak will stay , we will re sign him and hopefully he'll get better and better

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Well the point of the article was more that Seattle has been very good in the draft and we weren't.

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Rak is good I'm hoping with the hiring of the new OLB coach he will just get that much better.

[QUOTE=FRPLG;1056658]Well the point of the article was more that Seattle has been very good in the draft and we weren't.[/QUOTE]

I mean the teams went in different directions for many reasons.

1. They are loaded with talent we r not
2. Pete Carroll has done a great job with this team and they love the guy, obviously ms didn't get that same treatment.
3. RW didn't have a horrible knee injury and miss all OS.
4. They have a dominant set of DBs, ours are as bad as it gets with Wilson starting.
5. Injuries killed us this yr, who was their big injury? Nobody

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The Seahawks defense is driven by the Legion of Boom, who allow the front 7 to gamble and blitz more. And the Legion of Boom is made up primarily of lower round draft picks.

The point is that the Seahawks have done something we haven't done: develop players. Coach 'em up. Make them better than they should be on paper.

The Seahawks teach us that player development is more important than draft vs. free agency.

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[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/4962/qa-sean-mcvay]Q&A: Sean McVay - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]

McVay is going to serve as QB coach, Gruden to call the plays.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1056662][url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/4962/qa-sean-mcvay]Q&A: Sean McVay - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]

McVay is going to serve as QB coach, Gruden to call the plays.[/QUOTE]

So he's not the OC then, which is fine JG did a good job in CIN

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[quote=Lotus;1056661]The Seahawks defense is driven by the Legion of Boom, who allow the front 7 to gamble and blitz more. And the Legion of Boom is made up primarily of lower round draft picks.

The point is that the Seahawks have done something we haven't done: develop players. Coach 'em up. Make them better than they should be on paper.

[B]The Seahawks teach us that player development is more important than draft vs. free agency.[/B][/quote]

This is the key. How we get a player is rather irrelevant, it's what we do when they get here that's the key. That's one ding on bringing back so many position coaches. We have done a terrible job of developing players for a long, long time. I think players like Kerrigan, Amerson, Rak, Williams, Hankerson, Helu, even Morris and of course RG3 have a lot more upside that we've yet to see.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1056660]I mean the teams went in different directions for many reasons.

1. They are loaded with talent we r not
2. Pete Carroll has done a great job with this team and they love the guy, obviously ms didn't get that same treatment.
3. RW didn't have a horrible knee injury and miss all OS.
4. They have a dominant set of DBs, ours are as bad as it gets with Wilson starting.
[B]5. Injuries killed us this yr, who was their big injury? Nobody[/B][/quote]

Actually we had a pretty injury free year. LAst year we sustained more injuries at least to key players.

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[quote=Paintrain;1056656]Lol, I'm so honored.

Since the pressure is now on, here's an interesting look at how the varied offseason approaches between us and Seattle have led us to divergent paths.

[URL="http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/4989/redskins-seahawks-took-different-paths"]Redskins, Seahawks took different paths - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/URL]

I'm sure this will just open up the draft vs. free agency discussion again.[/quote]

They've just done a better overall job picking players and having a true plan. Seattle has taken some chances in free agency, hit on some and missed on some. But the players they've picked at almost every position is better than ours.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1056663]So he's not the OC then, which is fine JG did a good job in CIN[/quote]

Not every OC calls plays

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[quote=Paintrain;1056656]Lol, I'm so honored.

Since the pressure is now on, here's an interesting look at how the varied offseason approaches between us and Seattle have led us to divergent paths.

[url=http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/4989/redskins-seahawks-took-different-paths]Redskins, Seahawks took different paths - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN[/url]

I'm sure this will just open up the draft vs. free agency discussion again.[/quote]

The article didn't mention Jordan Reed?

What I take away from the article is simply that Seattle hit on their lower round picks and drafted a lot of defense. I always believe that a sign of a great GM is one who can find the diamonds in the rough in the lower rounds. I know someone here won't agree with me on that, but it's obvious that's true. Mike Shanahan had the final say, and seemed to hit more on the offensive side of the ball than defense. Yet he still seeemed to whiff on offensive linemen and the secondary. Seattle's GM picked the players while Carroll coached the team. The 'skins have that in place now. Let's compare the two after this version of the front office, and after Gruden has been in place for a couple seasons.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1056663]So he's not the OC then, which is fine JG did a good job in CIN[/quote]

He is the offensive coordinator. He'll fill in when Gruden needs him to - whether if it is running meetings, offensive drills in practice, whatever is needed...he'll also help to game plan with Gruden. He just won't be calling plays on game day.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1056663]So he's not the OC then, which is fine JG did a good job in CIN[/quote]

I think Lotus needs to chime in with the "why can't we be normal" chant now.

Rather than having everybody step into their new roles, it almost seems like the whole offensive staff will have a bit less than the normal at their position. HC's in this day and age have too many other issues, time management, challenges and reviews, etc, for them to be calling plays. And since the defensive side will be Haslett's I guess, that means rather than a HC/OC/DC model we will be in more of a NYJ type model where the HC is mostly concerned about one side of the ball. I don't really like that model.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;1056667]Not every OC calls plays[/QUOTE]

True just didn't know of he was the official OC but it appears as he is

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Redskin great Jerry Smith will be on "A Football Life" tonight at 9 EST. Should be interesting.

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sign rak/hall/riley, get byrd/OT/WR, draft OG. i wouldn't mind another CB or swapping hall for talib etc either. i think we've got enough money to get it done, especially with the old guys we'll be able to toss this year.

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;1056672]I think Lotus needs to chime in with the "why can't we be normal" chant now.

Rather than having everybody step into their new roles, it almost seems like the whole offensive staff will have a bit less than the normal at their position. HC's in this day and age have too many other issues, time management, challenges and reviews, etc, for them to be calling plays. And since the defensive side will be Haslett's I guess, that means rather than a HC/OC/DC model we will be in more of a NYJ type model where the HC is mostly concerned about one side of the ball. I don't really like that model.[/quote]

Ha! Now the shoe is on the other foot! :)

Our model seems to work ok for the Saints. Payton is essentially OC and play caller for them.

But in light of this and your well-taken critique, the question then becomes, "Is Jay Gruden the next Sean Payton?"

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[quote=Lotus;1056674]Redskin great Jerry Smith will be on "A Football Life" tonight at 9 EST. Should be interesting.[/quote]

can't wait to see it. can't believe the guy died at 43.

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[quote=Paintrain;1056664]This is the key. How we get a player is rather irrelevant, it's what we do when they get here that's the key. That's one ding on bringing back so many position coaches. We have done a terrible job of developing players for a long, long time. I think players like Kerrigan, Amerson, Rak, Williams, Hankerson, Helu, even Morris and of course RG3 have a lot more upside that we've yet to see.[/quote]

One problem I've found about the Skins in recent years is always a catch-22 with player development.

On one hand, we'll push someone into a starting role far before they're early, and they fizzle out after a few games (anyone remember Chris Horton?)

On the other hand, we stash people on the bench where they get zero live game reps until they fade into obscurity OR fame (Clemons/Rinehart/etc.) Not saying that Compton or Gettis or McRib are the answer, but damn it would have been nice to see them get some game reps. At least we could have properly evaluated them. If Rib would have come back in shape after the playoff loss, I think he would have been starting, so there's that.

Alfred Morris is the only "developmental" player that has really worked out for us, at least that I can remember. And if it wasn't for injuries, we might not have ever known his name.

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[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1056683]One problem I've found about the Skins in recent years is always a catch-22 with player development.

On one hand, we'll push someone into a starting role far before they're early, and they fizzle out after a few games (anyone remember Chris Horton?)

On the other hand, we stash people on the bench where they get zero live game reps until they fade into obscurity OR fame (Clemons/Rinehart/etc.) Not saying that Compton or Gettis or McRib are the answer, but damn it would have been nice to see them get some game reps. At least we could have properly evaluated them. If Rib would have come back in shape after the playoff loss, I think he would have been starting, so there's that.

[B]Alfred Morris is the only "developmental" player that has really worked out for us, at least that I can remember. And if it wasn't for injuries, we might not have ever known his name.[/quote][/B]

I think they have done a good job developing Perry Reily, then again, the LB coaches have been replaced, and perhaps Fletcher had more to do with that than the coaches.

Jordan Reed and Rob Jackson are two others that might be considered well developed talent, and I think Paul and Paulsen have developed into good depth TE's at least.

Overall though, I see what you're saying.

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Good call on Riley. I think Reed based on his draft status has been about where we should have expected him to be. I think Jackson is a great role player, but I still would be SUPER nervous about him starting.

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For Paul/Paulsen, I like them as blocking backs only. Paulsen WAY more than Paul.

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[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1056683]One problem I've found about the Skins in recent years is always a catch-22 with player development.

On one hand, we'll push someone into a starting role far before they're early, and they fizzle out after a few games (anyone remember Chris Horton?)

On the other hand, we stash people on the bench where they get zero live game reps until they fade into obscurity OR fame (Clemons/Rinehart/etc.) Not saying that Compton or Gettis or McRib are the answer, but damn it would have been nice to see them get some game reps. At least we could have properly evaluated them. If Rib would have come back in shape after the playoff loss, I think he would have been starting, so there's that.

Alfred Morris is the only "developmental" player that has really worked out for us, at least that I can remember. And if it wasn't for injuries, we might not have ever known his name.[/quote]


Are you implying that Horton washed out because he played too much as a rookie?
I don't buy that argument. Nothing is more valuable than playing time for rookies.

It's all about coaching and talent evaluation.
The good teams can take an unknown player that fits their system and coach them up so they can play solid football. Patriots toss new people in the starting line up every week and they play pretty well.

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[quote=jamf;1056689]Are you implying that Horton washed out because he played too much as a rookie?
I don't buy that argument. Nothing is more valuable than playing time for rookies.

It's all about coaching and talent evaluation.
[B]The good teams can take an unknown player that fits their system and coach them up so they can play solid football. Patriots toss new people in the starting line up every week and they play pretty well.[/B][/quote]

This.

Player development is key.

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[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;1056687]Good call on Riley. I think Reed based on his draft status has been about where we should have expected him to be. I think Jackson is a great role player, but I still would be SUPER nervous about him starting.[/quote]

If you expected Reed to play as well as he did, you're a better talent evaluator than me. He played [I]far[/I] beyond what I expected him to.

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I hate reading DC media members sometimes because they become so enamored with other teams. Watching that championship game Seattle is not [U][B]all that[/B][/U]. Russell Wilson was under duress the whole game. The key to the secondary in Seattle is coaching IMO. They target player that meet their scheme and coach them up to be successful.

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Dont know if this is the right thread but tough luck for Bowman, i really liked watching him play d, watched a documentary in him seems like a geat guy good family man and teammate.

[QUOTE=CrustyRedskin;1056703]Dont know if this is the right thread but tough luck for Bowman, i really liked watching him play d, watched a documentary in him seems like a geat guy good family man and teammate.[/QUOTE]

Yeah that's a hard injury to come back from but I'm sure he'll be alright

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Morocco Brown will not become Tampa's GM. Jason Licht got the job instead.

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ap-source-buccaneers-hire-cardinals-221333167--nfl.html]Y! SPORTS[/url]

Forgive me but I had no idea Jerry smith was such a baller!! Wow

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1056711]Forgive me but I had no idea Jerry smith was such a baller!! Wow[/quote]

He and Chris Hanburger were my heroes back in the day. Jerry Smith could ball for sure.

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[quote=Lotus;1056712][B]He and Chris Hanburger were my heroes back in the day.[/B] Jerry Smith could ball for sure.[/quote]
^^^^^^^^

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What happened to Pick Magnet?

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Haslutt speaking to the media today, says 3-4 stays. Priorities is resigning Rak and Riley. Also mentioned bring back Baker and Hall.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1056704]Yeah that's a hard injury to come back from but I'm sure he'll be alright[/quote]

Sucks. Probably won't be the same for at least next season. Hopefully he will return to form in 2015.

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Some pretty interesting figures here:
[url=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1925307-washington-redskins-stats-that-mattered-in-2013]Washington Redskins Stats That Mattered in 2013 | Bleacher Report[/url]

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Surprised we haven't started a Danny sell to Warren petition yet:

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/01/22/warren-buffett-on-the-redskins/]Warren Buffett on the Redskins[/url]

“You know, when I was a kid, I thought if I ever made a lot of money, I would go out and buy a team,” Buffett said. “I was a water boy for the Washington Redskins for two games – I lived in Washington at the time – and I thought if I ever had a lot of money I’d buy the Washington Redskins.”