Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

I thought of something while reading this. Does Coles know that his career could be on the decline and that's why he wanted a new deal from the Jets and also snagged the $5M bonus from us in the process? Is he just trying to milk as much money as he can for fear that his toe really is a problem?

One thing's for sure, the guy sure is rollin' in the green!

[url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2010303"]http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2010303[/url]


The trade of unhappy wide receivers [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5463"][color=#000000]Santana Moss[/color][/url] and [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5107"][color=#000000]Laveranues Coles[/color][/url], which had taken on a life of its own over a stop-and-start 10-day stretch, was finally completed on Wednesday when the latter successfully completed his physical exam with the [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=nyj"][color=#000000]New York Jets[/color][/url]. But while Coles passed muster with the Jets medical staff, there are some personnel men and pro scouts in the league who feel the injury to his right big toe, which nagged him through the better portion of the past two seasons, remains a problem. Certainly the numbers at least hint that the damaged toe, on which Coles has steadfastly declined to have surgery, has been a bit of a deterrent to the wideout's authoring big plays. From his arrival in the league in 2000 through the third game of the 2003 season, the outing in which he suffered the toe injury, Coles averaged 15.0 yards per reception and scored a touchdown every 13.8 catches. In the 29 games since the injury, Coles has averaged 11.8 yards per reception and has scored a touchdown every 24.8 catches.

Coles is wary of going under the knife, he has hinted, because similar toe surgery prematurely ended the career of former NFL wide receiver [url="http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=2355"][color=#000000]O.J. McDuffie[/color][/url]. That onetime Miami starter remains in litigation, having brought charges against the surgeon who performed his operation. In terms of the contract Coles signed with the Jets as part of the trade, it provided him even more security. There were still five seasons, totaling $21 million, remaining of the seven-year, $35 million deal Coles signed in Washington in 2002. By reworking the contract, Coles raised the five-year take to $25 million and received $8 million in guarantees. That included a $5 million signing bonus and three guaranteed roster bonuses of $1 million apiece. So, just since March of 2003, when he pocketed a $13 million signing bonus from the Redskins, the five-year veteran wideout has banked $21 million in guarantees. In his two seasons in Washington, he earned a total of $14 million, counting his signing bonus and base salaries. If he plays the entire five-year contract with the Jets, he will have earned a whopping $40 million in seven years, making him one of the highest paid wide receivers in history. The base salaries for his deal with the Jets are $1 million (2005), $2 million (2006), $4 million (2007), $5 million (2008) and $6 million (2009).

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

I really think his toe issues greased the wheels on this. I can totally see Bubba Tyer telling Gibbs to cut and run. I mean this guy's play is predicated on being fast and quick. Running good routes with good cuts created his seperation. He is not a big guy and while he plays physically he doesn't have the strength of bigger receivers so he can't make seperation very easily that way. I think one of the main reasons he caught so many short passes this year is because they felt he still had the straight away speed and some wiggle that he could create moving foward. But running precise routes and cutting CBs out of their jocks wasn't in the cards. It was they only way to maximize his avaiable skills. If his toe is degenerative or at at least chronic he loses a lot of value in my mind. Before the toe he sure was a serious #1 but after it the numbers (admittedly skewed by a conservative approach last year) show it was at least a medium level problem.

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

I wouldn't go so far to say that he isn't a big guy. The guy has got some major guns on him.

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]I wouldn't go so far to say that he isn't a big guy. The guy has got some major guns on him.[/QUOTE]

He's in great shape but he's still just 5'11 and 195.

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

Height-wise no. Strength-wise yes.

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

Who cares, he's a Jet now..

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

Coles' toe certainly contributed to his lack of big plays.

But, by week 10, pretty much EVERYONE on this site and Gibbs himself (!!!) said he was too conservative in his play-calling. He has supposedly committed himself to "opening up of the offense" and trying to go vertical more. He said he regretted some of his decisions to remain conservative. Certainly, there were valid reasons for keeping the offense conservative (the team was learning a new offense, the QB situation was unstable, etc), but IMHO, Gibbs' playcalling was the number one reason for Coles' piss-poor ypc.

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Coles' toe certainly contributed to his lack of big plays.

But, by week 10, pretty much EVERYONE on this site and Gibbs himself (!!!) said he was too conservative in his play-calling. He has supposedly committed himself to "opening up of the offense" and trying to go vertical more. He said he regretted some of his decisions to remain conservative. Certainly, there were valid reasons for keeping the offense conservative (the team was learning a new offense, the QB situation was unstable, etc), but IMHO, Gibbs' playcalling was the number one reason for Coles' piss-poor ypc.[/QUOTE]
This is what totally confuses me. Joe Gibbs was a offensive genius in his first stint. Everyone wants portray him as having a grind it out type offense back then which isn't really true. They threw downfield often but they used the grind it out type of plays to control leads.
I have got to think that he didn't just forget that. The play calling last year was remarkably bland and conservative but why? Was it becasue he had lost it or was it because he thought it was the best way to go. I'd say he probably evaluated the talent and the injury situation and thought they didn't have the parts to make a downfield game work. I know everyone here was frustrated with it but none of us have a super bowl ring and he happens to have three. I am gonna side with him on this. As for his own contentions that they needed to open it up I think those comments were based on several factors including a desire to placate fans and a desire to show the players he could adjust. They did in fact go downfield somewhat more but with little success. In the end how was he going to switch from what he obviously thought was the best plan possible?
The best sign of his belief that we didn't have the tools is the way they have gone about rebuilding the WR corp. I think maybe now he feels he can open it for real. As for last year he did what he thought was best and he KNOWS he is doing. I guess I just an eternal optimist with our ole boy Gibbs.

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG]This is what totally confuses me. Joe Gibbs was a offensive genius in his first stint. Everyone wants portray him as having a grind it out type offense back then which isn't really true. They threw downfield often but they used the grind it out type of plays to control leads.
I have got to think that he didn't just forget that. The play calling last year was remarkably bland and conservative but why? Was it becasue he had lost it or was it because he thought it was the best way to go. I'd say he probably evaluated the talent and the injury situation and thought they didn't have the parts to make a downfield game work. I know everyone here was frustrated with it but none of us have a super bowl ring and he happens to have three. I am gonna side with him on this. As for his own contentions that they needed to open it up I think those comments were based on several factors including a desire to placate fans and a desire to show the players he could adjust. They did in fact go downfield somewhat more but with little success. In the end how was he going to switch from what he obviously thought was the best plan possible?
The best sign of his belief that we didn't have the tools is the way they have gone about rebuilding the WR corp. I think maybe now he feels he can open it for real. As for last year he did what he thought was best and he KNOWS he is doing. I guess I just an eternal optimist with our ole boy Gibbs.[/QUOTE]


I agree with you. Gibbs, contrary to what some might tell you, didn't become dumb overnight. He know what he's doing. And what he did was what all of us fans always say the Redskins don't do enough of...preach patience. He knew he needed a year to evaluate the talent on the field, try out different game plans, basically get a feel for what he's working with-both teamwise and leaguewise. With a year under his belt he and the Skins are ready for big things in '05.

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]Who cares, he's a Jet now..[/QUOTE]could not have said it better myself

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

We'll see about the toe, the system, etc.

I just hope Santana stays healthy. That guy can fly when he's healthy, but he hasn't been that durable either.

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]We'll see about the toe, the system, etc.

I just hope Santana stays healthy. That guy can fly when he's healthy, but he hasn't been that durable either.[/QUOTE]

It wasn't just the toe. The play calling, keeping QB Brunnell in there, adjusting to Portis and not a power back, not having a complete OL without Jansen, and then the switch to PRam, may have all contributed!

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG]This is what totally confuses me. Joe Gibbs was a offensive genius in his first stint. Everyone wants portray him as having a grind it out type offense back then which isn't really true. They threw downfield often but they used the grind it out type of plays to control leads.
I have got to think that he didn't just forget that. The play calling last year was remarkably bland and conservative but why? Was it becasue he had lost it or was it because he thought it was the best way to go. I'd say he probably evaluated the talent and the injury situation and thought they didn't have the parts to make a downfield game work. I know everyone here was frustrated with it but none of us have a super bowl ring and he happens to have three. I am gonna side with him on this. As for his own contentions that they needed to open it up I think those comments were based on several factors including a desire to placate fans and a desire to show the players he could adjust. They did in fact go downfield somewhat more but with little success. In the end how was he going to switch from what he obviously thought was the best plan possible?
The best sign of his belief that we didn't have the tools is the way they have gone about rebuilding the WR corp. I think maybe now he feels he can open it for real. As for last year he did what he thought was best and he KNOWS he is doing. I guess I just an eternal optimist with our ole boy Gibbs.[/QUOTE] There is only one thing that should be addressed when talking about our offense. The subpar play at the QB position. PAtrick came in to late and still is just getting a understanding of this offense versus the let the QB be killed mentality of Spurrier. It takes time to understand protection schemes and build a repoire of your coach and players. Our QB's both sucked last year with Patrick being better then the money man they brought in. Just remeber they were competative in every game last year except for the Giants game. This is quite a change to the previous coaching staffs who let their team give up. He is a genius when it comes to coaching and mangaging players. Andy Reid is a offesnive genius but Gibbs is a team genius, so be calm and wait for the storm, cause when it hits you will go wild.

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

People a O runs on the line!!! I don't care who is calling the playes or at QB,WR or RB for the most part! If the guys up frount do not do the job it is hell getting anything done! If the line is donig it's job then the play calling and QB come in to play! RB next then the WR's. If the line is kicking someones ass on the run and keeping the QB safe to pass we should do well! Last years line didn't do that very well and killed themselfs with flags or the O couldn't get plays of in time! I hope with a new Center and Jansen back alond with a good draft for back ups this will get better!

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

[QUOTE=backrow]It wasn't just the toe. The play calling, keeping QB Brunnell in there, adjusting to Portis and not a power back, not having a complete OL without Jansen, and then the switch to PRam, may have all contributed![/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly. There were a lot of issues. There were also a lot of dropped balls.

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

I didn't expect Gibbs to walk into town and have overnight success. I also am quite aware of what Gibbs did for this team, franchise, and town. I also appreciate that the guy knows a hell of a lot more about the game than all of us combined. Finally, I think he'll get the job done.

However, I'm not just going to give the guy a free pass; that would make this site incredibly boring and ignore reality. Gibbs, like anyone else of equal talent, makes mistakes. To say his mistakes are outweighed by his attributes and we'll be fine in the long run is one thing. To completely ignore his mistakes is totally different.

I can't defend the playcalling from last season. Yeah, we we're "in" every game last year - due to Williams' defense, not Gibbs' offense. The offense was atrocious. The QB situation stank, but Gibbs is the guy who paid Brunell big cash to come into town. I distinctly remember most warpathers defending Gibbs' playcalling through about Week 8. But I also remember that by week 12, those same Warpathers had joined those of us who criticized the playcalling. The run game was pathetic, the passing attack was awful, and the offense as a whole couldn't score points.

Good coaches can take mediocre talent and make them look good.

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

There were many factors that contributed to the less than spectacular offense.

Gibbs adjusting to the "new" NFL after being away for over a decade, losing Jansen resulting in the constant reshuffling on the OL, Brunell not working out as expected, the entire offense struggling with execution, and of course the playcalling. I really think Gibbs got spooked after that first Giants game when they turned it over 7 times and he tightened the reins too much and never let up.

Then when the switch to Ramsey finally came, there was that adjustment period. I think the entire season was full of adjustments, and now Gibbs should have a much better idea of what works and what doesn't work as they head into next year. He also knows his team now and what his player's strengths and weaknesses are.

If we're sitting here next year talking about how the offense stunk it up again, then I'll definitely be concerned.

Don't mistake this for a "free pass", but with Gibbs' history and credentials, I'm more than willing to give him a mulligan for the 2004 season.

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

Coach Gibbs knew earyl last season that he did not have the working parts to make the big plays downfield that's why he stuck to the conservative game plan of short passes most of the year. The first nine games were a disaster because of Brunell and his lack of arm strength, however once Gibbs decided to replace him things didn't get a lot better with Ramsey, thouigh slightly improved.

The changes made thus far in the off-season is a clear indication of what Gibbs felt was neccessary to get the passing game going. While Gibbs will never publicly criticize his players, his actions so far is a clear indication of his thoughts. If we do not add another Receiver I think we will do just fine with what we have now. I'm convienced the passing game will be much improved in 05.

Go Skins!!

Re: Lenny P: Coles' toe still a concern?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]There were many factors that contributed to the less than spectacular offense.

Gibbs adjusting to the "new" NFL after being away for over a decade, losing Jansen resulting in the constant reshuffling on the OL, Brunell not working out as expected, the entire offense struggling with execution, and of course the playcalling. I really think Gibbs got spooked after that first Giants game when they turned it over 7 times and he tightened the reins too much and never let up.

Then when the switch to Ramsey finally came, there was that adjustment period. I think the entire season was full of adjustments, and now Gibbs should have a much better idea of what works and what doesn't work as they head into next year. He also knows his team now and what his player's strengths and weaknesses are.

If we're sitting here next year talking about how the offense stunk it up again, then I'll definitely be concerned.

Don't mistake this for a "free pass", but with Gibbs' history and credentials, I'm more than willing to give him a mulligan for the 2004 season.[/QUOTE]

That, I can deal and agree with.