P. Ram Restructures!
 

Patrick Ramsey restructures?????

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[url]http://mb9.scout.com/fcpndhardcoref...cID=42238.topic[/url]


I don't know if the above will link, but I coppied it fromhailredskins.com.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

According to Hail Redskins this is what the link says:

The full post:

Ramsey's new figures:

2005: Base salary dropped from $1.602M to the 4th-year minimum of $455,000
2006: Base salary INCREASED from $1.188M to $1.688M

This could be a couple things:

1. It could be a simple restructuring with his 2005 base salary being reduced from $1.602M to $455,000 with the difference being made up via a signing bonus, with the increase in 2006 due to an escalator (his 2005 base salary recently increased $500,000 from $1.102M to $1.602M because of an escalator, so another $500,000 escalator for 2006 would make sense). In this case, the $1.147M bonus he would receive would be prorated $573,500 for 2005 and 2006. Along with the $620,000 allocation from his 2002 rookie signing bonus and adjusted base salary, his 2005 cap number would be $1.649M, a savings of $573,000 from his previous 2005 cap number of $2.222M.

2. He could have reduced his base salary from $1.602M to $455,000 with SOME of the difference being paid via a signing bonus, and the rest being transferred to his 2006 base salary. In this case, he would have received a $647,000 signing bonus with the remaining $500,000 being pushed to his 2006 base salary. In this case, the $647,000 bonus would be prorated $323,500 for 2005 and 2006. Along with the $620,000 allocation from his rookie signing bonus and adjusted base salary, his 2005 cap number would be $1.399M, a savings of $823,000 from his previous 2005 cap number of $2.222M; this would save $250,000 more from his 2005 cap number than the first scenario, but would cost $250,000 more on his 2006 cap number.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

Patrick steppin up to the plate, very nice to see guys we didn't expect to restructure take one for the team.

Chris Samuels where are you in all this? Mark Brunell?

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

All the players should play for a league established minimum and rely on bonus escalator. Of course I'm not a pro athlete

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Patrick steppin up to the plate, very nice to see guys we didn't expect to restructure take one for the team.

Chris Samuels where are you in all this? Mark Brunell?[/QUOTE]


Seriously. You got Ramsey and Jansen steppin up, showing their leadership on the team, that they are willing to take one for the team. Wynn proving he is a team player and taking a cut; very nice to see.

Note to Samuels and Brunell; neither of you are worth what you're paid. You dont have to take millions and millions of dollars away from yourselves. Every little bit helps out, take one for the team. Brunell ..43 Million?? For what, exactly. Just give back a few million and it will ale be good.

Very nice, Patrick, Jon and Renaldo.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[QUOTE=RedskinRat]All the players should play for a league established minimum and rely on bonus escalator. Of course I'm not a pro athlete[/QUOTE]

yeah ur not a pro athelete! :laughing- Players are just like every other man in this world, on a paper chase. and they like I, they wouldn't take a league min for sh#$ especially if they were a bust like brunnel.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

Wow, this is great. Nice start to our offseason.

It would be awesome if Brunell restructured, by then again that's wishful thinking.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

When players restructure they're not necessarily taking paycuts are they. Aren't they just moving around how the money will be distributed to them?

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

What I don't understand is why would a player NOT want to restructure?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the basics of it is the player gets a bonus up front, which is guaranteed money in the bank in exchange for lowering their base figures for X amount of years.

Are they potentially losing any money by doing this?? After all, the only guaranteed money in these contracts are the bonuses, so I would think players would jump at these opportunities.

I'm sure there's a reason players sometimes balk at restructuring, I just understand why.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

this is all very encouraging for next year. It looks like Gibbs is really making a huge impression on these players and promoting the team spirit. HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!!

Its been along road for all of us fans, but you cant help but beleive we are finally on the right track

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought 2006 was to going to our bad salary cap year. If so, then why back load contracts to a year we might have salary cap problems?
Is this another case of Snyder living for today and who cares about tomorrow?
Ramsey is proving to be a great team player.
Regarding Samuels, he better renegotiate. It is not like we have not shown him the money from day one. He was (something like) the 2nd pick in his draft class. His rookie contract was good. The guy needs to step up or we cut him. He is not worth $10M or whatever he is set to count.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

Players don't like to restructure because not in all the situations they get the amount of money they would have goten in the original contract. Do you honestly think based on his performance brunnel would get even a quarter of what his original contract? No, he'd take a pay cut.

Don't get me wrong, restructuring does happen alot in the offseason, but those big ticket guys hate restructuring especially if they run the risk of losing they're position, the threat of being cut makes them do it.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[QUOTE=Defensewins]Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought 2006 was to going to our bad salary cap year. If so, then why back load contracts to a year we might have salary cap problems?
Is this another case of Snyder living for today and who cares about tomorrow?
Ramsey is proving to be a great team player.
Regarding Samuels, he better renegotiate. It is not like we have not shown him the money from day one. He was (something like) the 2nd pick in his draft class. His rookie contract was good. The guy needs to step up or we cut him. He is not worth $10M or whatever he is set to count.[/QUOTE]

They hope by that time the media contracts would have brought in more money raising the salary cap, it has to do with negotiations between the players association and the NFL i think also.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

This is beautiful. Now I have something to do today (not counting work).

I'll see if I can put some numbers together.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]What I don't understand is why would a player NOT want to restructure?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the basics of it is the player gets a bonus up front, which is guaranteed money in the bank in exchange for lowering their base figures for X amount of years. [/QUOTE]

In a simple restructure, you're right. It's simply guaranteeing as much of a year or two's salary by converting it into signing bonus, and then spreading the burden of that money onto future years. It also reduces the chance of a later release or trade, because there is additional bonus to accelerate.

I think one of the reasons Samuels was reluctant to restructure last year was that he wasn't sure the front office could be trusted with his money. I think we can all agree that the Redskins have made some... (retarded? imbecilic? suicidal?) questionable acquisitions in the past, overpaying for limited talent. He also had to have his questions about the direction of the team, and refusing to restructure kept the amount of accelerated bonus the team would eat lower than if he'd done so - giving him a greater chance of escaping the team if it appeared there wouldn't be the atmosphere he desired. That sounds kind of harsh, but given the instability surrounding the team, I can understand.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]What I don't understand is why would a player NOT want to restructure?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the basics of it is the player gets a bonus up front, which is guaranteed money in the bank in exchange for lowering their base figures for X amount of years.

Are they potentially losing any money by doing this?? After all, the only guaranteed money in these contracts are the bonuses, so I would think players would jump at these opportunities.

I'm sure there's a reason players sometimes balk at restructuring, I just understand why.[/QUOTE]
One reason why a player would not want to restructure is that it often entails an extension of the contract. For example, Samuels' current contract is only through 2006. Thus, even if he were to restructure and convert all of his 2005 salary to bonus, it would still only be spread out over 2005 and 2006. To really get the benefit of a restructuring, we would need to extend his contract. This is something he might not want to do if he thinks his value is not as high now as it would be later.

You are right, though, that in many cases the player should not care about a restructuring. Where the contract is long enough so that it is just a simple conversion of salary to bonus, then the player still gets the same amount of money at the same time (sometimes earlier)--all that changes is the accounting (the bonus is amortized over the life of the contract).

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

Samuels is a bigger disappointment than Gardner for real. He needs to restructure or get rid of him he is average anyway. and Brunnell if i ever see hime put on the field with a Redskins uniform again, i don't want to see him with a Redskins helmet on. how is he a big time character guy. He knows he is not deserving what he is getting he needs to retire. Joe Gibbs needs to be realistic Brunnell is done. He is the most overpaid player in NFL history damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

Gotta disagree on the Samuels-Gardner comparison. Samuels has been to the Pro Bowl and was once a top 5 LT, his game has fallen off a bit but he was pretty solid overall last season and looks like he's on the right path with Bugel coaching him back up.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[QUOTE=smootsmack]According to Hail Redskins this is what the link says:

The full post:

Ramsey's new figures:

2005: Base salary dropped from $1.602M to the 4th-year minimum of $455,000
2006: Base salary INCREASED from $1.188M to $1.688M

This could be a couple things:

1. It could be a simple restructuring with his 2005 base salary being reduced from $1.602M to $455,000 with the difference being made up via a signing bonus, with the increase in 2006 due to an escalator (his 2005 base salary recently increased $500,000 from $1.102M to $1.602M because of an escalator, so another $500,000 escalator for 2006 would make sense). In this case, the $1.147M bonus he would receive would be prorated $573,500 for 2005 and 2006. Along with the $620,000 allocation from his 2002 rookie signing bonus and adjusted base salary, his 2005 cap number would be $1.649M, a savings of $573,000 from his previous 2005 cap number of $2.222M.

2. He could have reduced his base salary from $1.602M to $455,000 with SOME of the difference being paid via a signing bonus, and the rest being transferred to his 2006 base salary. In this case, he would have received a $647,000 signing bonus with the remaining $500,000 being pushed to his 2006 base salary. In this case, the $647,000 bonus would be prorated $323,500 for 2005 and 2006. Along with the $620,000 allocation from his rookie signing bonus and adjusted base salary, his 2005 cap number would be $1.399M, a savings of $823,000 from his previous 2005 cap number of $2.222M; this would save $250,000 more from his 2005 cap number than the first scenario, but would cost $250,000 more on his 2006 cap number.[/QUOTE]

Your scenario definitely sounds feasible.

I'm still trying to figure out the point of Ramsey restructuring without an extension. It seems all we're doing here is moving some money from 2006 to 2005 (which doesn't make sense).

Nevertheless this is a good sign. I hope PR isn't still bitter about the Brunell signing.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Patrick steppin up to the plate, very nice to see guys we didn't expect to restructure take one for the team.

Chris Samuels where are you in all this? Mark Brunell?[/QUOTE]


HERE, HERE!

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[QUOTE=SKINSnCANES]this is all very encouraging for next year. It looks like Gibbs is really making a huge impression on these players and promoting the team spirit. HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!!

Its been along road for all of us fans, but you cant help but beleive we are finally on the right track[/QUOTE]

I was just about to post that very thing good job SC, it's Gibb's at his finest bringing people together for team unity, all for 1 and 1 for all, perhap's Gibb's finest coaching quality.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Gotta disagree on the Samuels-Gardner comparison. Samuels has been to the Pro Bowl and was once a top 5 LT, his game has fallen off a bit but he was pretty solid overall last season and looks like he's on the right path with Bugel coaching him back up.[/QUOTE]


Agreed, I think the disapointment in Samuel's comes from the fact we all thought he would be better than he has turned out to be, I think he has the physical tool's to be one of the best, I just don't know if he has the heart?

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[img]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/AvatarGibbs.jpg[/img]


[font=Comic Sans MS][size=4][color=darkred]Thanks Patrick!!![/color][/size][/font]

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

The transformation to greatness continues.....stay tuned!

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[QUOTE=BrudLee]In a simple restructure, you're right. It's simply guaranteeing as much of a year or two's salary by converting it into signing bonus, and then spreading the burden of that money onto future years. It also reduces the chance of a later release or trade, because there is additional bonus to accelerate.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand why players backload their salaries and move the money to future years and then the teams cut or trade them......wouldn't you want to STAY employed.........or stick with a team that's successful. And if I were a player, I think I'd keep my salary reasonable in order to stay in the NFL and with a winning team or a team that is moving towards success and a Super Bowl..........Guess some are money hungry and make hay while the sun is shinning.....

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

:httr: Every little bit helps...............

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[QUOTE=monk81]I don't understand why players backload their salaries and move the money to future years and then the teams cut or trade them......wouldn't you want to STAY employed.........or stick with a team that's successful. And if I were a player, I think I'd keep my salary reasonable in order to stay in the NFL and with a winning team or a team that is moving towards success and a Super Bowl..........Guess some are money hungry and make hay while the sun is shinning.....[/QUOTE]
They actually don't backload, what they do get is alot of upfront cash which counts against the cap over the period of the contract. So instead of making 1 million a year for 5 years, they get paid the minium salary allowed and take the remaining right there and then. So if the min was $500,000 then they would get 2.5 million guarenteed right then and there.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

CRT3, what's up with the pics all over the place?

This isn't extremeskins or hailredskins. C'mon now.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

He's rebelling because he's stuck with Chad Morton...

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]CRT3, what's up with the pics all over the place?

This isn't extremeskins or hailredskins. C'mon now.[/QUOTE]Sorry about that, I will make them smaller. Just experimenting a bit. But please no more Morton. What post number to I have to reach to get rid of him?

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

Players are happy to restructure contracts when the overall value of the contract remains the same, and the length of the contract remains the same. It just means that instead of getting their money in the form of salary throughout the season, they get that same amount of money all up front in one lump-sum bonus payment. They don't change the contract, they just change when they get paid, which affects the way you allocate the bonus to the cap.

It's a good point on Samuels, he doesn't want to sign an extension at this point because he knows he's better than how he's done in the past couple seasons. I'm sure the Skins are pushing to extend him out to like 2010 and sign him to a Jon Jansen type contract. Samuels probably doesn't want to committ long term, because he thinks he's better than Jansen; and since Samuels has been to the Pro Bowl before and thinks he can get back there, he wants to prove it before he signs a long-term deal. I can't say I blame him, it's in his own best interests. But that said, I'd much rather have Jon Jansen than Chris Samuels if you forced me to choose, despite Jansen never making it to the Pro Bowl. The dude's got a passion for the game and you can tell that other players look up to him. I think if the Skins can't extend Samuels in the coming weeks, I think they have to cut him. He's good, and he'd be missed, but at that price I'm sorry, I'd have to cut ties and let Molinaro give it a go.

Of course, also don't forget that Vaughn Parker is quite a talent, and if he can get into shape he wouldn't be a bad insurance policy.

All that said, I hope Samuels gets extended and sticks around. He is real good and we need him. But he's no Jon Jansen in my eyes, and he's not worth a cap hit of $9 million a year.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

Someone asked why players don't automatically restructure. Here's the problem with doing it every year:

If you contantly put off base salary increases into the future for the sake of a signing bonus in the current year, you wind up in the situation that Chris Samuels is in now. He restructured twice and piled up a huge payday in 2005/6. And now the team wants him to forego that big payday to take a signing bonus and extned further into the future. At some point, it becomes disadvantageous for a player to keep piling up money in a final year or two because he is unlikely ever to see that money because the team will cut him as a "cap casualty". So after a point, the player who restructures is helping to cut his own throat.

As I understand it, this is a big part of Chris Samuels' reluctance to redo his deal. He did it twice before and this is the time when he is supposed to get all the money he deferred for the good of the team in past years. That's what he was told. Now, the team wants him to take less one more time...

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

He wont be taking less though. If he simply redid his deal taking most of his salary as SB this year it would be no point because it would just make his masive cap number in 2006 even bigger. He has to be looking at an exention again with a big upfront payment the only question is where is he going to get the best money... here with Mr Money Bags Dan Snyder or in FA?

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[QUOTE=bedlamVR]He wont be taking less though. If he simply redid his deal taking most of his salary as SB this year it would be no point because it would just make his masive cap number in 2006 even bigger. He has to be looking at an exention again with a big upfront payment the only question is where is he going to get the best money... here with Mr Money Bags Dan Snyder or in FA?[/QUOTE]


That could be their line of thinking. They could be saying, this is the year Ramsey has to prove himself; if he does, we resign him to a long term deal in teh offseason, which we can then backload. If Ramsey has a bad year, I hate to say it, but he could be let go, making that cap number not as big of a deal. I wouldnt be in favor of letting Ramsey go, but if you think of it that way, it defintley makes sense.

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

I just read on ESPN that Steve McNair is going to be a cap casuality.

If you think Samuels is due a big payday then check out McNairs, hes due 7.5 Million dollars this year.....and $$$$$50 MILLION next year. FIFTY FREAKING MILLION DOLLARS FOR ONE YEAR. talk about back loading

Re: P. Ram Restructures!
 

[QUOTE=offiss]I was just about to post that very thing good job SC, it's Gibb's at his finest bringing people together for team unity, all for 1 and 1 for all, perhap's Gibb's finest coaching quality.[/QUOTE]

Somethign that is very hard to do with a team that has sucked for over ten years. Hes doing what the Patriots do, but its much easier to convince someone to stay for cheaper to play on a team thats in the superbowl everyyear.