Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

I have always had my doubts about certain players and teams in this league and I am willing to bet one or two teams and a whole bunch of players are going to come crashing back to earth now that they can't cheat.

For example:

James Harrison - No way you go from a complete nobody to defensive MVP. No Way.

Clay Matthews - I can give like ten reasons why I think this guy cheats.

Pittsburgh Steelers - Don't believe that a team can sustain this level of physical freak dominance for such a sustained period of time. Solid players arrive on this team and in three years they are superior athletes. Over and over.

Baltimore Ravens - See above

New York Giants - See above

Disclaimer: These are just predictions and opinions.

It is also my opinion that a ton of NFL players have been cheating for a long long time.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

Clay comes from good pedigree...gaining 80lbs and 2 inches in hight is very doable in 6 years.

Time will tell on all those other predictions though I wouldn't bet against the Steelers or the Ravens. Those guys work hard.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

So you mean to say that the only reason James Harrison is a top pass rusher is cause you think he took steroids? You think the reason Pittsburgh has been a dominant physical team is cause they're all juiced up? That is just ridiculous.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=skinsfan69;823834]So you mean to say that the only reason James Harrison is a top pass rusher is cause you think he took steroids? You think the reason Pittsburgh has been a dominant physical team is cause they're all juiced up? That is just ridiculous.[/quote]

Way to put your own spin on what I said.

I said I was suspicious of an undrafted player who had a meteoric rise in ability during an era when the drug testing policy in the NFL was a complete and utter joke.

I never said all of the player on Pittsburgh are juiced up. Let's say three of their top eight players used performance enhancers. That's still a big advantage.

As I already stated I think a ton of players have been cheating.

It's only a prediction anyways.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

I'm afraid to even touch that one. Would be difficult for me to call out teams or players and not invoke premature speculation and assumption. I agree with Saden1, it's hard to grab-bag players that work hard, the new rule will eventually smoke out all cheaters if there actually are any.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=wilsowilso;823837]Way to put your own spin on what I said.

I said I was suspicious of an undrafted player who had a meteoric rise in ability during an era when the drug testing policy in the NFL was a complete and utter joke.

I never said all of the player on Pittsburgh are juiced up. Let's say three of their top eight players used performance enhancers. That's still a big advantage.

As I already stated I think a ton of players have been cheating.

It's only a prediction anyways.[/quote]

Well, what do you think he's supposed to take from this line?

"Pittsburgh Steelers - Don't believe that a team can sustain this level of physical freak dominance for such a sustained period of time. Solid players arrive on this team and in three years they are superior athletes. Over and over."

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=SmootSmack;823843]Well, what do you think he's supposed to take from this line?

"Pittsburgh Steelers - Don't believe that a team can sustain this level of physical freak dominance for such a sustained period of time. Solid players arrive on this team and in three years they are superior athletes. Over and over."[/quote]

Yeah except I explained my thought process just a little more than that.

I didn't just say Harrison must be a cheater because he is a beast pass rusher now did I?

I said it's suspect for the guy to arrive in the NFL undrafted out of nowhere and the next thing you know he is one of the most gifted athletes in the league.

I didn't say all the Steelers cheat. I said average players show up on that team and over time their physical ability puts them on a whole different level. I find that very suspect.

Sure you can argue it's all hard work.

Barry Bonds can make that argument as well.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=wilsowilso;823837]Way to put your own spin on what I said.

I said I was suspicious of an undrafted player who had a meteoric rise in ability during an era when the drug testing policy in the NFL was a complete and utter joke.

I never said all of the player on Pittsburgh are juiced up[B]. Let's say three of their top eight players used performance enhancers. That's still a big advantage.[/B]

As I already stated I think a ton of players have been cheating.

It's only a prediction anyways.[/quote]

Totally disagree 100%. Harrison is 5'10 or so and he plays with a very low pad level. That's why he's a great pass rusher. Being strong helps but his technique and pad level is why he's good at what he does. He's also on the perfect defense for him. Freeney and Mathis are the same way, they play with low pad level coming off the edge, although both are undersized 4-3 ends. Taking setroids doesn't make you a geat football player. Heart, work ethic and talent do.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

I really don't want to get into this conversation as well. WE are not dominant by any means but what if our guys are doing it as well?

We can't just specualte about this team and that team. There are groups of players in the league who use HGH. You never know where these guys will come from, but I will say you will see guys from all over the NFL getting busted. It will not be limited to this team or that team.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

I thought the steroid testing was already pretty strong? I think the new testing is more of a crack down on HGH.

My thoughts are its going to affect older players and a lot of special teamers/bobble guys. The true “team guys” that are usually only in the league for a 3-4 years cant miss time from injury. If Chris Cooley hurts his knee and misses all of training camp, no problem. If a “team guy” guy like Rock Cartwright missed all of training camp back in the day hes taking a job at UPS in the fall. If youre a old vet and youre just delaying the enviable by using HGH then youre screwed too.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=skinsfan69;823834]So you mean to say that the only reason James Harrison is a top pass rusher is cause you think he took steroids? You think the reason Pittsburgh has been a dominant physical team is cause they're all juiced up? That is just ridiculous.[/quote]

Hmm, Not so crazy. If you know NFL history, you may have heard of Lyle Alzado, and the Raiders of the 70's and 80's..:twocents:
Not saying that Pittsburgh is a squad full of juice monkeys, just saying there have been in the past.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

Some of the steelers defense, specifically James Harrison. (Keisel, maybe Aaron Smith, Farrior, and Timmons)

Clay Matthews, even though I love the way he plays.

Cushing

Shawn Merriman

Suggs

Ray Lewis

LaRon

Richie Incognito, Marc Colombo, Leonard Davis, Logan Mankins,

Richard Seymour

Jay Ratliff

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

no team or player will suffer from steroid testing. they players will just take something that is not illegal yet. just like this last year when ray lewis , roy williiams , and i am sure other people were taking deer antler velvet, the league made them stop, then made it a banned substance. they will find a new source for hgh or steriods and until someone comes up with a test to detect it ,thats what they will use.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=alaskaN8;823909]no team or player will suffer from steroid testing. they players will just take something that is not illegal yet. just like this last year when ray lewis , roy williiams , and i am sure other people were taking deer antler velvet, the league made them stop, then made it a banned substance. they will find a new source for hgh or steriods and until someone comes up with a test to detect it ,thats what they will use.[/quote]

This is the way it HAS BEEN FOR YEARS. The players have been one step ahead of the tests..

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

Ed Hochuli

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=wilsowilso;823849]Yeah except I explained my thought process just a little more than that.


I didn't say all the Steelers cheat. I said average players show up on that team and over time their physical ability puts them on a whole different level. I find that very suspect.

.[/quote]


No not really.You might not have said "all Steelers cheat" but you implied it, as with saying the Giants and Ravens see above
I don't know what you call an average player but the pro game is differnt and has different work outs ,some players thrive in it .....some don't,doesn't mean it's pharmaceutically induced.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=Chico23231;823912]Ed Hochuli[/quote]

Nice.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=Redskin Jim;823876]Hmm, Not so crazy. If you know NFL history, you may have heard of Lyle Alzado, and the Raiders of the 70's and 80's..:twocents:
Not saying that Pittsburgh is a squad full of juice monkeys, just saying there have been in the past.[/quote]

Lyle Alzado was not a great player.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=wilsowilso;823818]I have always had my doubts about certain players and teams in this league and I am willing to bet one or two teams and a whole bunch of players are going to come crashing back to earth now that they can't cheat.

For example:

James Harrison - No way you go from a complete nobody to defensive MVP. No Way.

Clay Matthews - I can give like ten reasons why I think this guy cheats.

Pittsburgh Steelers - Don't believe that a team can sustain this level of physical freak dominance for such a sustained period of time. Solid players arrive on this team and in three years they are superior athletes. Over and over.

Baltimore Ravens - See above

New York Giants - See above

Disclaimer: These are just predictions and opinions.

[B]It is also my opinion that a ton of NFL players have been cheating for a long long time.[/B][/quote]


Just curious here - - would any current Redskins' players be ones who have been "cheating for a long, long time"?

Or is "cheating" isolated to other teams?

If the Skins have any "cheaters" in your view, would you care to name some names?

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;823965]Just curious here - - would any current Redskins' players be ones who have been "cheating for a long, long time"?

Or is "cheating" isolated to other teams?

If the Skins have any "cheaters" in your view, would you care to name some names?[/quote]

I have no doubt there are current players on every NFL team that have been using HGH or something similar. EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN THE NFL HAS CHEATERS ON IT.

The testing program that was in place was a complete JOKE.

Adam Archuleta was a very very suspect NFL player. I would bet a significant amount of money that he was a cheater.

I don't need a positive test to know for a fact that Barry Bonds was a massive steroid user.

He quite literally changed his body type in a way that is not humanly possible without a heavy dose of juice. His HR production skyrocketed in direct contrast to all evidence that his power numbers should be going in the opposite direction.

I could be wrong about all of my predictions.

This is all supposition and conjecture and I freely acknowledge that.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=Giantone;823916]No not really.You might not have said "all Steelers cheat" but you implied it, as with saying the Giants and Ravens see above
I don't know what you call an average player but the pro game is differnt and has different work outs ,some players thrive in it .....some don't,doesn't mean it's pharmaceutically induced.[/quote]

In no way did I imply that ALL players on a certain team cheat.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

I don't get why people are getting their panties in a bunch about this, after all this is all speculation (like most of the stuff we talk about here). Personally, I would hate to see football to turn into baseball, and in a way I'm glad that the NFL is implementing these types of tests. Given what has happened with baseball (and other sports) I think the public is always wondering in their back of their mind whether X-player is juicing. This will definitely cause a lot of debate in the upcoming season.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Anthony-Gonzalez-thinks-lots-and-lots-of-players?urn=nfl-wp4829]Anthony Gonzalez thinks lots and lots of players are using HGH - Shutdown Corner - NFL*Blog - Yahoo! Sports[/url]

It's just one current NFL players opinion, but he sums it up pretty nicely.

He has seen many of these players up close in college and now they are in the NFL and they are freakin enormous and something doesn't add up.

No kidding.

Maybe it's the magic NFL weight rooms?

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=wilsowilso;823983]In no way did I imply that ALL players on a certain team cheat.[/quote]



yeah, ok.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=wilsowilso;823818]I have always had my doubts about certain players and teams in this league and I am willing to bet one or two teams and a whole bunch of players are going to come crashing back to earth now that they can't cheat.

For example:

James Harrison - No way you go from a complete nobody to defensive MVP. No Way.

Clay Matthews - I can give like ten reasons why I think this guy cheats.

Pittsburgh Steelers - Don't believe that a team can sustain this level of physical freak dominance for such a sustained period of time. Solid players arrive on this team and in three years they are superior athletes. Over and over.

Baltimore Ravens - See above

New York Giants - See above

Disclaimer: These are just predictions and opinions.

It is also my opinion that a ton of NFL players have been cheating for a long long time.[/quote]


.......yeah,ya did.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;823965]If the Skins have any "cheaters" in your view, would you care to name some names?[/quote]

[IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_BHDpvhxF_CQ/TBob4LoJgvI/AAAAAAAADJU/Jg9fRpWIGzA/s400/laronlandryhz9.jpg[/IMG]


[IMG]http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/landryhuge.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

Giantone, where does he say that all players are cheating? He said "a lot". He also said in big bold text that it's an opinion.

No need to get upset.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

Hey its a witch hunt thread! I say we put everyone we think is using HGH in a giant burlap sack filled with rocks, then toss it in the Chesapeake Bay. If they don't drown to death, they are using HGH......

Are people seriously arguing about this? Hey I have an idea: Lets just wait for the testing and there will be no need for arguing so passionately on circumstantial nonsense all because someone "wasn't big and now is." The NFL is full of freaks on a physical level. MUCH more than baseball. It could be anyone using HGH and it wouldn't surprise me. Is it September 8th yet? sheeeeeesh

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=Stuck in TX;824026] It could be anyone using HGH and it wouldn't surprise me. [/quote]

Truth.


I've said this many times.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

Why is it that when I guy looks like a body builder it's automatically assumed that he's using? Does anyone around here actually lift, train and diet on a daily basis? Cause if any of you do then you would know that you can get pretty ripped just be dieting and training hard. The media has really jaded a lot of people on steroids.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

I have got to be honest I dont really care who is juicing and who is not. If these guys want to be idiots and mess up their bodies for the rest of their lives that is their business. If they get caught once suspend them, if they get caught twice suspend them longer and strip them of any benefits they get once they retire.

Edit: I should be more clear, its not that I don't care, its that I don't take it personally like some do. I would obviously prefer a level playing field.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=skinsfan69;824040]Why is it that when I guy looks like a body builder it's automatically assumed that he's using? Does anyone around here actually lift, train and diet on a daily basis? Cause if any of you do then you would know that you can get pretty ripped just be dieting and training hard. The media has really jaded a lot of people on steroids.[/quote]

That's certainly a good point. These guys work out like it's a job, because it is their job. Plus they have trainers, dietitians, doctors, etc., all working closely with them.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=Mattyk;824043]That's certainly a good point. These guys work out like it's a job, because it is their job. Plus they have trainers, dietitians, doctors, etc., all working closely with them.[/quote]

This is true Matty, but let's not be foolish here. In any business people are looking for an edge. In this particular business, the NFL, it has been documented time and time again of players using p.e.d.'s. To think that we are looking at a level playing field here is the equivilant to burying our heads in the sand. Or a child who sticks their fingers in their ears because they don't want to hear the truth. I'd be interested to see how many players will start this season with a suspension due to a dirty piss test. Um Buchannon anyone...

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

I kinda fall under the camp of who cares. It's the NFL's job to police this, and they've generally done a good job at cleaning things up in recent years. Regardless of the policy there are always going to be guys who find a way to stay under the radar. And there are plenty of guys who get busted for unknowingly using banned substances too, so it's not always guys who are trying to cheat the system.

PB's suspension is likely related to weed, not a PED.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

[quote=Mattyk;824050]I kinda fall under the camp of who cares. It's the NFL's job to police this, and they've generally done a good job at cleaning things up in recent years. Regardless of the policy there are always going to be guys who find a way to stay under the radar. And there are plenty of guys who get busted for unknowingly using banned substances too, so it's not always guys who are trying to cheat the system.

PB's suspension is likely related to weed, not a PED.[/quote]

This is kind of the way I feel. Although I do feel bad when a guy gets in just as much trouble for unknowingly using a banned substance like starcaps.

Also isnt the standard drug suspension 4 games, regardless of the type of drug. If someone is using steroids that's cheating. If someone is smoking weed that's just substance abuse. No way should those 2 things have the same penalty.

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[quote=Giantone;823992].......yeah,ya did.[/quote]

If by including the Giants on my list you somehow feel obligated to translate my OP I guess that's ok.

Oh yeah.

Another player.

Justin Tuck. I watched him a ton in college.

THAT'S NOT THE SAME PERSON.

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[quote=skinsfan69;824040]Why is it that when I guy looks like a body builder it's automatically assumed that he's using? Does anyone around here actually lift, train and diet on a daily basis? Cause if any of you do then you would know that you can get pretty ripped just be dieting and training hard. The media has really jaded a lot of people on steroids.[/quote]


[quote=Mattyk;824043]That's certainly a good point. These guys work out like it's a job, because it is their job. Plus they have trainers, dietitians, doctors, etc., all working closely with them.[/quote]


Working out hard, eating right will only take you so far. To get that separation between you and that next guy trying to make the team, you can rest assure guys are going to do whatever it takes to make it. Why? Because there is huge amounts of money involved.


Right now, I can tell you for 100% that one guy I know here at ECU that used roids. Guy came into ECU and just blew up. We all talked in the gym, and he even bounced for a short spell in the downtown bars (as did I). Guy was really cool, and looked more like a OLB than a punter. Ironically, I think he was scared of the contact.


[IMG]http://www.sportressofblogitude.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/matt-dodge.jpg[/IMG]

Once he got into the NFL, he told a mutual friend of our that HGH use was pretty high in the league. Now, I'll take Matty Dodge's word on this since the guy was a user himself.

Re: Predict teams/players that will underperform under new steroid testing program
 

I also want to add, that I don't care if they use or not. If it were me and millions of dollars were on the line, I'd use it too.

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[quote=NC_Skins;824061]I also want to add, that I don't care if they use or not. If it were me and millions of dollars were on the line, I'd use it too.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm with you and Matty on this one, really I am. I'm just not snow blinded into thinking these guys arn't using. I like the league how it is, freak on freak, it's "freaking" amazing.

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[quote=skinsfan69;824040]Why is it that when I guy looks like a body builder it's automatically assumed that he's using? Does anyone around here actually lift, train and diet on a daily basis? Cause if any of you do then you would know that you can get pretty ripped just be dieting and training hard. The media has really jaded a lot of people on steroids.[/quote]

This