Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

Didn't see this coming. Neither did many of Obama's congressional constituents....

[url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704156304576003441518282986.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection]Obama, GOP Reach Deal on Taxes - WSJ.com[/url]

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[IMG]http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2010/08/11/GR2010081106717.gif[/IMG]

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2010/08/11/GR2010081106717.html]Comparing Democratic and Republican tax plans[/url]

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

I'm a big fan of moderate Obama.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

Here I was thinking SS with running out of money and the GOP wanted to pay for things and decrease the national debt. This social security gimmick will net me 2 grand and I could use the money... I should be happy but I'm not.

:vomit:Obama

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

Gotta keep the wealthy happy :doh:

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/us/politics/08impact.html?src=twrhp[/url]

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

Dont want to hear any b*tching by the right about deficit anymore.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=Chico23231;766837]Dont want to hear any b*tching by the right about deficit anymore.[/quote]

Poor thinking for a number of reasons:

- Tax revenue is only part of the story when it comes to deficits, the other big one being spending. The onus is now on the Republican-led congress to propose spending reductions to bring spending in line with tax revenue and balance the budget. And in turn, the onus will then be on Obama to approve them, or come up with some other way to balance the budget, or he'll be labeled as a spender.

- The whole point of keeping taxes low for the rich is to spur investment and economic growth. As more people get hired and more businesses grow, the more tax revenue the government will bring in. Rising tides raise all boats. Tax revenue isn't just about the rate at which income is taxed, it's also about the number of people and business that have an income to tax.

If you get unemployment down from 10% to 5%, you just increased the number of taxpayers by 5%. Growing the economy in a sustainable manner (ie not through one-time stimulus) is key to balancing the budget.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=Schneed10;766856]Poor thinking for a number of reasons:

- Tax revenue is only part of the story when it comes to deficits, the other big one being spending. The onus is now on the Republican-led congress to propose spending reductions to bring spending in line with tax revenue and balance the budget. And in turn, the onus will then be on Obama to approve them, or come up with some other way to balance the budget, or he'll be labeled as a spender.
[/quote]

Cut the fcking crap, we both know they're not going to make a dent on the budget or the deficit anytime soon with any of their proposals. You can bet your ass the debt ceiling will be raised again to pay this pile of shit.

[quote=Schneed10;766856]
- The whole point of keeping taxes low for the rich is to spur investment and economic growth. As more people get hired and more businesses grow, the more tax revenue the government will bring in. Rising tides raise all boats. Tax revenue isn't just about the rate at which income is taxed, it's also about the number of people and business that have an income to tax.[/quote]

It worked wonders the last ten years, no reason to believe it won't work in the next ten years. Let's not forget taxes were higher during the Clinton era, no reason to believe we would be worse off if we raised taxes on those making over 250K. If you don't own a boat, well, tough shit...buy a swimming board.

[quote=Schneed10;766856]
If you get unemployment down from 10% to 5%, you just increased the number of taxpayers by 5%. Growing the economy in a sustainable manner (ie not through one-time stimulus) is key to balancing the budget.[/quote]

Revenue vs expenditure...5% increase low earners aren't going get you any revenue. Higher corporate tax rates and estate taxes will though but of course we can't touch those rates because they create jobs.



Punt! :vomit:

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=Schneed10;766856]Poor thinking for a number of reasons:

- Tax revenue is only part of the story when it comes to deficits, the other big one being spending. The onus is now on the Republican-led congress to propose spending reductions to bring spending in line with tax revenue and balance the budget. And in turn, the onus will then be on Obama to approve them, or come up with some other way to balance the budget, or he'll be labeled as a spender.

- The whole point of keeping taxes low for the rich is to spur investment and economic growth. As more people get hired and more businesses grow, the more tax revenue the government will bring in. Rising tides raise all boats. Tax revenue isn't just about the rate at which income is taxed, it's also about the number of people and business that have an income to tax.

If you get unemployment down from 10% to 5%, you just increased the number of taxpayers by 5%. Growing the economy in a sustainable manner (ie not through one-time stimulus) is key to balancing the budget.[/quote]

Right so my only question is A) Has the defecit grown since W took office and passed these tax policy? B) Why didnt this logic already happening over the last decade? This is extention of the tax cuts. This is not new tax policy?

The top 1% getting there continuing fat tax cut was politics pure and simple. Your logic is the same rhetoric given when that policy was initial passed.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=saden1;766864]Cut the fcking crap, we both know they're not going to make a dent on the budget or the deficit anytime soon with any of their proposals. You can bet your ass the debt ceiling will be raised again to pay this pile of shit.



It worked wonders the last ten years, no reason to believe it won't work in the next ten years. [B]Let's not forget taxes were higher during the Clinton era, no reason to believe we would be worse off if we raised taxes on those making over 250K. If you don't own a boat, well, tough shit...buy a swimming board. [/B]



Revenue vs expenditure...5% increase low earners aren't going get you any revenue. Higher corporate tax rates and estate taxes will though but of course we can't touch those rates because they create jobs.



Punt! :vomit:[/quote]

Federal spending was also held in check durn the Clinton years also.
[url=http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/federal-spending-per-household]Federal Spending per Household Is Skyrocketing[/url]

Also federal income has risen over the years so whats your point?
[url=http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/federal-revenue]Federal Revenue, Taxes and Tax Rates: Government Revenue and Tax Trends Charts[/url]

We don't have a tax problem we have a spending problem. Both parties have had this spending problem so I'm not blaming either party. Everyone hated Newt. G. but he was the last person in charge that actually did what he said and kept spending down which allowed Clinton to have a balance budget. I don't have problem paying my fair share in taxes when they clean up the waist.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=drew54;766409][IMG]http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2010/08/11/GR2010081106717.gif[/IMG]

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2010/08/11/GR2010081106717.html"]Comparing Democratic and Republican tax plans[/URL][/quote]


This is a f*&%ed up chart because a good portion of those people don't even pay federal income taxes. So they don't pay but they can get tax refunds in the thousands.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=firstdown;766912]This is a f*&%ed up chart because a good portion of those people don't even pay federal income taxes. So they don't pay but they can get tax refunds in the thousands.[/quote]

The other f*&%ed up part is that they don't make the income brackets graphically apparent. So when you see it, your eyes focus on the disparity at the top level, and that feels unfair. But if they had the same circles on the income side then the proportionality of the system would be more tangible, and the picture would make better sense. You could still have the debate, it just would be more correctly framed

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=firstdown;766910]Federal spending was also held in check durn the Clinton years also.
[url=http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/federal-spending-per-household]Federal Spending per Household Is Skyrocketing[/url]

Also federal income has risen over the years so whats your point?
[url=http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook/federal-revenue]Federal Revenue, Taxes and Tax Rates: Government Revenue and Tax Trends Charts[/url]

We don't have a tax problem we have a spending problem. Both parties have had this spending problem so I'm not blaming either party. Everyone hated Newt. G. but he was the last person in charge that actually did what he said and kept spending down which allowed Clinton to have a balance budget. I don't have problem paying my fair share in taxes when they clean up the waist.[/quote]

What's debilitating and increasing this country financial problems are the wars and the out of control defense budget. Continuing to reduce the federal income by reducing taxes, raiding social security, and spending money on "defense" is certain to make the problem worse. The reason we are where we are is because we don't address the real issues and these morons think their agreement is a step in the right direction.

Down with this garbage...I would rather raise taxes on everyone and spite my face.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

For all their conflicts, a lot of the Dems and Repubs are Keynesians at heart, and the economics-illiterate public gets suckered in by their half-truths.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=saden1;766933]What's debilitating and increasing this country financial problems are the wars and the out of control defense budget. Continuing to reduce the federal income by reducing taxes, raiding social security, and spending money on "defense" is certain to make the problem worse. The reason we are where we are is because we don't address the real issues and these morons think their agreement is a step in the right direction.

Down with this garbage...I would rather raise taxes on everyone and spite my face.[/quote]

Well maybe if we stopped giving 50% of the people a free ride on federal taxes things would not be so bad. I under stand some of the poor just don't make enough but 50% of the population not paying any taxes. Then a good number of them get tax refunds after paying nothing into the system but we make it sound like the rich are getting a free ride. Hell they are the ones paying the bills.

Also if you actually looked at the chart federal income has not dropped its increased. I agree we need to cut defense but we also need to make a bunch of other cuts in social programs.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[url=http://www.whitehouse.gov/whiteboard]White House White Board | The White House[/url]

"Invest in America, and grow our way out of this problem."

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO9PqfGUFZE]YouTube - Kelly vs. Weiner: Fairness of Death Tax[/url]

shes so hot

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=drew54;767111][URL="http://www.whitehouse.gov/whiteboard"]White House White Board | The White House[/URL]

"Invest in America, and grow our way out of this problem."[/quote]

What F^$#ing BS. They have had control of congress and the Witehouse but only now is it important to pass those things to grow our way out. Why not do these thing two years ago if they are so important?

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

Our gov't has failed us. We voted for them, so I guess we have failed ourselves.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=mlmpetert;767123][URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JO9PqfGUFZE"]YouTube - Kelly vs. Weiner: Fairness of Death Tax[/URL]

shes so hot[/quote]

Oh my god yeah. I love Megyn Kelly. Whenever I'm home during the week at lunch time, I always have her on. My wife even called her hot a month or two ago. That was awesome.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

Part of me wants to chuckle at how big of a fail Obama has been, but he is our President.

Not good when members of his own party are overheard saying "**** the President."

[url=http://biggovernment.com/publius/2010/12/09/profanity-anger-spill-over-in-democratic-caucus-meeting/]» Dems Gone Wild: ‘F*%k the President’ - Big Government[/url]

His boy Olbermann even said "he is god damned wrong." Lol.

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/08/olbermann-tax-cut-obama-special-comment_n_793565.html]Keith Olbermann's Tax Cut Special Comment: Obama 'Goddamned Wrong' On Deal, Betrayed His Base (VIDEO)[/url]

From Audacity to Animosity?

[url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703766704576009943102291486.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop]From Audacity to Animosity - WSJ.com[/url]

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

Funny how the left was saying how the Rep. party was going down because of the conservatives but now we are watching this.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

We're not blind automatons...Obama doesn't deserve support on this matter so yeah, fck the president and those "fiscally conservative" Republicans!

What's really funny though is Republicans appearing to care about the debt and this country and their enablers on the right who maintain silence in the face of this farce of a proposal. Glad to see you now support raising the debt ceiling and more spending.

[URL="http://thehill.com/homenews/house/132937-whip-count-house-democrats-positions-on-obamas-tax-compromise"]WHIP COUNT: Obama’s tax compromise.[/URL]

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

Well, Big O now has Slick Willy as his pitchman.

[url=http://finance.yahoo.com/news/At-Obamas-side-Clinton-backs-apf-4065249916.html?x=0&.v=1]Bill's Back: Clinton commands stage at White House - Yahoo! Finance[/url]

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=GMScud;767239]Part of me wants to chuckle at how big of a fail Obama has been, but he is our President.

Not good when members of his own party are overheard saying "**** the President."

[URL="http://biggovernment.com/publius/2010/12/09/profanity-anger-spill-over-in-democratic-caucus-meeting/"]» Dems Gone Wild: ‘F*%k the President’ - Big Government[/URL]

His boy Olbermann even said "he is god damned wrong." Lol.

[URL="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/08/olbermann-tax-cut-obama-special-comment_n_793565.html"]Keith Olbermann's Tax Cut Special Comment: Obama 'Goddamned Wrong' On Deal, Betrayed His Base (VIDEO)[/URL]

From Audacity to Animosity?

[URL="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703766704576009943102291486.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop"]From Audacity to Animosity - WSJ.com[/URL][/quote]

Again, when you say failed are you being literal or simply characterizing the left's knee jerk reaction to Obama moving to the center or not keeping some so called campaign promise? Just wondering.

Look, at the end of the day good policies make good politics. And to that end I feel the president has moved the needle slightly in his direction and has set up the tax debate, yet again, headed into the 2012 elections. There are lots of good incentives and tax breaks for small businesses as well as a good swath of middle America. Most economists have already revised their 2011 GDP estimates upward anywhere from 3.5% to 4.1%. I'm sorry, but that's not a failure in my opinion.

It will be fascinating to see the same Republicans who decry Obama's socialist ways and government spending re-litigate the Bush era tax breaks for the wealthy all over again in two years. Can you imagine, a full four years removed from George W. Bush, arguably the biggest failure in our lifetime, being gone from office and every leading Republican presidential candidate will have to make a coherent argument about Bush's failed economic policies and out of the other side of their mouth spout on and on about fiscal austerity and cutting the deficit. I think they dropped the ball by not forcing Obama to agree to a permanent extension. In that regard, Republicans failed and you can bet we haven't heard the last from Obama on this extension.

Now about Obama being a commie socialist...

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=12thMan;767322]Again, when you say failed are you being literal or simply characterizing the left's knee jerk reaction to Obama moving to the center or not keeping some so called campaign promise? Just wondering.

Look, at the end of the day good policies make good politics. And to that end I feel the president has moved the needle slightly in his direction and has set up the tax debate, yet again, headed into the 2012 elections. There are lots of good incentives and tax breaks for small businesses as well as a good swath of middle America. Most economists have already revised their 2011 GDP estimates upward anywhere from 3.5% to 4.1%. I'm sorry, but that's not a failure in my opinion.

[B]It will be fascinating to see the same Republicans who decry Obama's socialist ways and government spending re-litigate the Bush era tax breaks for the wealthy all over again in two years. Can you imagine, a full four years removed from George W. Bush, arguably the biggest failure in our lifetime, being gone from office and every leading Republican presidential candidate will have to make a coherent argument about Bush's failed economic policies and out of the other side of their mouth spout on and on about fiscal austerity and cutting the deficit. I think they dropped the ball by not forcing Obama to agree to a permanent extension. In that regard, Republicans failed and you can bet we haven't heard the last from Obama on this extension. [/B]

Now about Obama being a commie socialist...[/quote]

So he made this compromise as a response to his consistently falling poll numbers with a distinct plan for using it as an arguing chip in the 2012 presidential campaign?

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=GMScud;767330]So he made this compromise as a response to his consistently falling poll numbers with a distinct plan for using it as an arguing chip in the 2012 presidential campaign?[/quote]

Haha...I don't think Obama's worried about poll numbers right now.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

IF the economy does start to really pickup in 2011, Barak is in a good position for reelection. THe only visible GOP candidate is Palin, and she would get slaughtered.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

I just feel bad for anyone getting their panties in a bunch on either side. SUCH a waste of energy...

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=12thMan;767398]Haha...I don't think Obama's worried about poll numbers right now.[/quote]

Then you are terribly naive.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=12thMan;767398]Haha...I don't think Obama's worried about poll numbers right now.[/quote]

He should be. They're in the shitter.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=GMScud;767421]He should be. They're in the shitter.[/quote]

They are exactly where [URL="http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-presapp0605-31.html"]Reagan's numbers[/URL] were at the same junction. Obama will be fine....don't you worry about him.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

LOL @ Boner...love the nose scratch.

[YT]RBYSltbiu8U[/YT]

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=GMScud;767421]He should be. They're in the shitter.[/quote]

plenty of time to worry about his poll numbers. you do like the tax compromise otherwise, right?

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

I'll be working until I am 75, but hey, it feels good now.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[url=http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-13/moody-s-says-obama-tax-deal-is-negative-for-u-s-credit-rating.html]Moody's Says Obama Tax Proposal Deal Is Negative for U.S. Credit Rating - Bloomberg[/url]

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=saden1;768738][URL="http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-13/moody-s-says-obama-tax-deal-is-negative-for-u-s-credit-rating.html"]Moody's Says Obama Tax Proposal Deal Is Negative for U.S. Credit Rating - Bloomberg[/URL][/quote]

The tax cuts are only an issue because of Obama's other spending and health care bill. They also probably know extending unemployment only gives a bunch of people another 13 months to sit at home. It just keeps the unemployment count up.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=saden1;768357]They are exactly where [URL="http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/info-presapp0605-31.html"]Reagan's numbers[/URL] were at the same junction. Obama will be fine....don't you worry about him.[/quote]
Obama is no Reagan.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

[quote=firstdown;768971]Obama is no Reagan.[/quote]

Personally I think he's better than Reagan in many areas. And like Reagan he is overrated and over-celebrated in others areas. It's unfortunate the Republican party is littered with trashy presidential candidates.

Re: Surprise move on tax cuts by Obama
 

It's [URL="http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/top/all/7340450.html"]passed in the Senate[/URL].


"The bill's cost, $858 billion, would be added to the deficit."

lol @ deficit hawks...won't anyone think of the children?