Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

In an effort to narrow the scope of our conversation when it comes to evaluting Jason Campbell and possibly his future as a Washington Redskin, I want to broach this topic from a different angle. His stats are what they are, so there's no debating his production. We're well aware of the woes along the offensive line and the carousel of offensive coordinators and systems since he's been here. Been there, done that. But it's perplexing to me how we all watch the same guy for five years now and yet we're still split down the middle on him.

If I throw out a few names like Philip Rivers or Eli Manning, Donovan McNabb or David Garrard, most fans could tell you with certainty what they like and dislike about those QBs, but there's also consensus whether or not they're good enough to take their teams to the next level. Not so with Campbell and Redskins fans it seems.

Most Skins fans fall into one of two camps when opining about Jason Campbell: a) [I]He has all the tools and potential, but he needs more help and talent around him and has been handcuffed, to some extent, by the team's offensive philosphy or b) Campbell has had long enough to develop into a great NFL quarterback, but he's been eratic, at best, and displays little leadership and isn't an accurate passer. [/I]

It's a very odd relationship. I don't know, maybe this is really an excercise in fan phsycology more than evaluating an NFL quarterback. Finally, let me go on the record saying that if the Redskins decide not to retain Campbell's services next season I think either Oakland or San Francisco could be a likely scenerio.

re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

Mods, can I get a P in Campbell?

re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

People are so divided on Campbell because narrow-minded/Snyder-like fans believe that he's the only reason we're not doing well, and also believe that those of us who don't think like this are Campbell apologists.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

Choice B at this point. JC has skills no doubt and can make some plays, but I think the end of the game yesterday sums up what I expect from him, not to get it done when the game is on the line. Doesnt have it. Is JC our biggest problem? Nope. But, he not bringing anything to the table to really elevate this team offensively. Look at Win-Losses and Look at our offense as a whole...garbage, bottom 3 in league. Is this all JC's fault. Nope. Is he a contributing factor, Yep.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=Ruhskins;629525]People are so divided on Campbell because narrow-minded/Snyder-like fans believe that he's the only reason we're not doing well, and also believe that those of us who don't think like this are Campbell apologists.[/quote]
Oh so if someone does not view JC as you do they are narrow minded. That statement by itself is norrow minded. I'm split on JC one minute he looks great then he makes a stupid play. If he is gone next year I wouldn't really care or if we gave him another year I would not mind. The only thing I don't want us to do is to sign him to any thing more then a 1 or 2 year deal and the only way I think he would do that if no other team makes a better offer.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

its impossible to judge Campbell fairly with this O-line...I think he could be solid with a good line and at least 1 legit #1 WR.

I mean who is really a better option than him for NEXT year? Even if Snyder does what we think he will and drafts a QB with their first pick you still need someone to play while the new guy learns.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=firstdown;629529]Oh so if someone does not view JC as you do they are narrow minded. That statement by itself is norrow minded. I'm split on JC one minute he looks great then he makes a stupid play. If he is gone next year I wouldn't really care or if we gave him another year I would not mind. The only thing I don't want us to do is to sign him to any thing more then a 1 or 2 year deal and the only way I think he would do that if no other team makes a better offer.[/quote]

Apparently you didn't read my post...

[quote=Ruhskins;629525]People are so divided on Campbell because narrow-minded/Snyder-like fans [B]believe that he's the only reason we're not doing well[/B], and also believe that those of us who don't think like this are Campbell apologists.[/quote]

I don't care whether people think he's good or bad...I just don't think he's the only problem this team has and that to me is being narrow-minded. I've been saying that he should be brought back only as competition or as a back up role. I do agree that he's up and down on his play. But given the so-so crop of FA QBs, I would say keep him to a short low-cost contract.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=12thMan;629524]Mods, can I get a P in Campbell?[/quote]


Ewwww, you just went all R. Kelly on CamPbell and want the Mods to help you. =)

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

Well, I would say the argument revolves around the infamous "IT" factor.

Many, including myself, saw JC's stats, and constant progression and felt he could be a starter for a long time. The defense of that position is clearly demonstrated in the His stats don't lie thread, where Buster has done the weekly tracking, and by GTripp's excellent analysis over the past years.

Others look first at the W/L column, and ask the question but can he win, or does he make the team better (like a qb is "supposed" to do). This is subjective, and most of the time people have tried to back it up with football lingo - slow release, can't anticipate, - which the stat people then try to disprove.

The one thing I think everyone now agrees, is that at this point JC has had his 5 years, we ought to look at a open competition next year, and at the least JC is a valid backup. Not many would question putting a 3rd round tender on him, and most would agree with a 2nd round tender.

Me, i am ready for a new qb, assuming we first get the OL fixed.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=firstdown;629529]Oh so if someone does not view JC as you do they are narrow minded. That statement by itself is norrow minded. I'm split on JC one minute he looks great then he makes a stupid play. If he is gone next year I wouldn't really care or if we gave him another year I would not mind. The only thing I don't want us to do is to sign him to any thing more then a 1 or 2 year deal and the only way I think he would do that if no other team makes a better offer.[/quote]


I agree, would not mind him as a back up.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=maroonandblack30;629530]its impossible to judge Campbell fairly with this O-line...I think he could be solid with a good line and at least 1 legit #1 WR.

[B]I mean who is really a better option than him for NEXT year?[/B] Even if Snyder does what we think he will and drafts a QB with their first pick you still need someone to play while the new guy learns.[/quote]

The only guy that looks the part is Clausen. He'll be gone to Stl by the time we pick. Otherwise I say you bring JC back cause there really isn't anyone else out there that's any better. But I also think it's going to come down to the new HC.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

This isn't something new though. Haven't we experienced this with other QBs-Ramsey, Brunell, even others like Frerotte, Kilmer/Jurgensen, Humphries...?

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

JC is showing lately that he can lead this team. We're losing players constantly to injury. The O-line first, which has gotten JC completely abused. Portis. Cooley. Now Betts. JC's still keeping the team going as well as it can without a competent line. He's outplaying the opponents QBs consistently. Yesterday he was much more accurate than Romo, made some nice plays (especially the escape/pass to Devin Thomas) and outpassed Romo by 100 yards. Now with our kick returner in at RB, he's keeping us in games and we would have won is Shawn Shankem would have made either of the two FGs he missed. He continues to be a low-interception QB compared to many others in the league, despite being rushed and harassed on every play almost immediately after dropping back.

We need to build up the line next year, make sure we have stability at RB and he can be one of the better QBs in the NFC. He'll have a Fred Davis who now contributes with Cooley back, he'll have a finally-productive Devin Thomas and possibly Malcolm Kelly. We need to bring him back with a new coaching staff and offensive line. He has proven he can be our guy and should have now put to rest any doubts that Cutler or Sanchez would have been better. They're both tanking badly despite having better offensive lines and their starting RBs still healthy. (Thomas Jones and Matt Forte)

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

Because we are dazed and confused , LOL . Easy , we like JC = great guy, hard working , doesn't cry or blame his teamates . We move the dang ball , but can't into the endzone . As soon as we win and score TD's , the confusion will end ... with or without JC . We need OL and health !!!!!

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=Buster;629544]JC is showing lately that he can lead this team. We're losing players constantly to injury. The O-line first, which has gotten JC completely abused. Portis. Cooley. Now Betts. JC's still keeping the team going as well as it can without a competent line. He's outplaying the opponents QBs consistently. Yesterday he was much more accurate than Romo, made some nice plays (especially the escape/pass to Devin Thomas) and outpassed Romo by 100 yards. Now with our kick returner in at RB, he's keeping us in games and we would have won is Shawn Shankem would have made either of the two FGs he missed. He continues to be a low-interception QB compared to many others in the league, despite being rushed and harassed on every play almost immediately after dropping back.

We need to build up the line next year, make sure we have stability at RB and he can be one of the better QBs in the NFC. He'll have a Fred Davis who now contributes with Cooley back, he'll have a finally-productive Devin Thomas and possibly Malcolm Kelly. We need to bring him back with a new coaching staff and offensive line. He has proven he can be our guy and should have now put to rest any doubts that Cutler or Sanchez would have been better. They're both tanking badly despite having better offensive lines and their starting RBs still healthy. (Thomas Jones and Matt Forte)[/quote]

Yea he did out pass Romo but Romo put together the drive when needed to win the game. How did JC respond? People then say we don't have a true #1 Wr but I could point out game after game open guys JC does not see.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;629543]This isn't something new though. Haven't we experienced this with other QBs-Ramsey, Brunell, even others like Frerotte, Kilmer/Jurgensen, Humphries...?[/quote]

Well, yes and no. Correct me if I'm wrong, but of the QBs recently drafted by the Redskins, Jason Campbell has lasted the longest at five years. And all the others were legit controversies. Frerotte/Shuler, Ramsey/Brunell, and Kilmer/Jurgensen. They were competing with a number two guy for the starting spot.

Campbell is unique in that he has had the reigns all to himself for a solid 3 1/2 years and we remain divided on whether or not he's the guy of the future. By now you would think most people would be on one side of the fence. Ask any Carolina fan what they think of Jake Delhomme and I'll bet most tell you it's time for him to go.

At what point does the future become the present and a part of the past?

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=firstdown;629561]Yea he did out pass Romo but Romo put together the drive when needed to win the game. How did JC respond? People then say we don't have a true #1 Wr but I could point out game after game open guys JC does not see.[/quote]


He did put the team in position for 6 additional points that would have won the game for us, without shanks from Suisham.

You can't honestly blame Campbell for the loss, he played great, especially with an already weak line losing Rinehart. He was clearly better than Romo. More accurate, more productive, despite being pressured a lot more.

Campbell wasn't on the field when Dallas was allowed to drive for their only TD.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=firstdown;629561]Yea he did out pass Romo but Romo put together the drive when needed to win the game. How did JC respond? People then say we don't have a true #1 Wr but I could point out game after game open guys JC does not see.[/quote]

Doesn't this exactly summarize the argument as I laid it out. One side - stats showed he did well, Other side - yeah but he didn't make "the play"

The "IT" group (as demonstrated by FD here) need to realize no one is calling for JC to be anointed as QB of the future, and the Stat group (as demonstrated by Buster's post) need to stop (if they are) trying to demonstrate Campbell's profiency. One thing I am certain of is - if someone is not in the Stat group now, no amount of numbers are going to sway them.

I am willing to bet (and offer it as a suggestion) that if a poll were posted with 4 options : keep JC with fat cat contract; keep but only with a 2nd round tender; keep but w/ a 3rd round tender; get rid of the bum today, we would see that we all feel about the same. Any chance of adding that poll Mods?

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=Buster;629570]He did put the team in position for 6 additional points that would have won the game for us, without shanks from Suisham.

You can't honestly blame Campbell for the loss, he played great, especially with an already weak line losing Rinehart. He was clearly better than Romo. More accurate, more productive, despite being pressured a lot more.

Campbell wasn't on the field when Dallas was allowed to drive for their only TD.[/quote]

Yeah, stat wise he was alot better than Romo. When it came down to making a play, leading a team downfield for a winning TD drive in the final 5 minutes of the game, Romo was the better QB. Ill take the guy who can get the W all day long.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

I think too many people give QBs too much credit and blame. The fact is that very few QBs are so good that they can overcome serious talent deficiencies around them to perform well. We're talking like Manning and...

We're divided because too many people suffer from thinking our team is better than it really is. They think we're just good QB play away from winning 10 games easy. We're not. Yesterday was a shinning example of why we aren't. Campbell played pretty well. But we had no real passing game beyond 8 yards because we ran 3 step drops the whole day. When we didn't JC was running for his life. I think JC is too inconsistent to ever be a top tier QB but I also think he is good enough to lead just about any decent offense in the league rather capably. I think you can win games with JC at QB. I think you can win a lot of games. In NE he throws for 3800 yards and 30-some TDs. He does. Very little he does says otherwise. In NY he has similar stats as Manning. Is he awesome in a Brady/Manning/Brees way? N0. In the Rivers/Rogers mold? Not quite. But he's the next level down with 6-7 other QBs. But most people want results and think that a QB can magically create a pocket and open WRs for himself it seems.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

By nature the QB always gets too much credit when things are going well, and takes too much blame when things aren't going so well.

What's amazing is through all the drama and injuries this year he's still playing solid. Yeah he's not a put the team on his back and carry you kind of player, but really when you look around the league there's not many QB's that are. In reality you're talking about 3 guys, maybe 5 tops.

That said I think a change of scenery is in order for both sides. He has the skills you want in a QB but I don't think his time here has been ideal as far as the way you want to break in a QB in this league. New systems every other year, ownership trying to pull the rug out from under you multiple times, and a broken down offensive line.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=Buster;629570]He did put the team in position for 6 additional points that would have won the game for us, without shanks from Suisham.

You can't honestly blame Campbell for the loss, he played great, especially with an already weak line losing Rinehart. He was clearly better than Romo. More accurate, more productive, despite being pressured a lot more.

[B]Campbell wasn't on the field when Dallas was allowed to drive for their only TD[/B].[/quote]

I have a problem with that last line. Our defense gives up only one score all game and it's their fault we lose? REALLY? C'mon man, JC has got to be able to put up more than 6 points in a game like that... The O has to be able to consistently score in the 20's for us to make the next step towards respectability.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=FRPLG;629574]I think too many people give QBs too much credit and blame. The fact is that very few QBs are so good that they can overcome serious talent deficiencies around them to perform well. We're talking like Manning and...

We're divided because too many people suffer from thinking our team is better than it really is. They think we're just good QB play away from winning 10 games easy. We're not. Yesterday was a shinning example of why we aren't. Campbell played pretty well. But we had no real passing game beyond 8 yards because we ran 3 step drops the whole day. When we didn't JC was running for his life. I think JC is too inconsistent to ever be a top tier QB but I also think he is good enough to lead just about any decent offense in the league rather capably. I think you can win games with JC at QB. I think you can win a lot of games. In NE he throws for 3800 yards and 30-some TDs. He does. Very little he does says otherwise. In NY he has similar stats as Manning. Is he awesome in a Brady/Manning/Brees way? N0. In the Rivers/Rogers mold? Not quite. But he's the next level down with 6-7 other QBs. But most people want results and think that a QB can magically create a pocket and open WRs for himself it seems.[/quote]

Good post.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

We are so divided on Campbell because he has played as a middle-of-the-road qb. Not bad but not great, either. This situation invites projections and criticisms from both sides, especially in Washington, where Monday morning quarterbacking is a revered tradition.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

I think the issue stems from there not being a true leader on offense. I feel like Campbell can be a successful QB in this league, but at this point, I'm not sure he'll ever get a fair shake in DC. He needs to put things aside and be The Leader of this offense. Guys have been waiting for this to happen, and I honestly don't think it will. The offense so desperately wants Campbell to take charge and lead them into battle. And while he's got the physical tools to make things happen, he doesn't have the tools mentally to be the leader he needs to be.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;629571]Doesn't this exactly summarize the argument as I laid it out. One side - stats showed he did well, Other side - yeah but he didn't make "the play"

The "IT" group (as demonstrated by FD here) need to realize no one is calling for JC to be anointed as QB of the future, and the Stat group (as demonstrated by Buster's post) need to stop (if they are) trying to demonstrate Campbell's profiency. One thing I am certain of is - if someone is not in the Stat group now, no amount of numbers are going to sway them.

I am willing to bet (and offer it as a suggestion) that if a poll were posted with 4 options : keep JC with fat cat contract; keep but only with a 2nd round tender; keep but w/ a 3rd round tender; get rid of the bum today, we would see that we all feel about the same. Any chance of adding that poll Mods?[/quote]

keep with 3rd round tender. someone will do that

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

I honestly thought that the Dallas game was Campbell's best of the season. He didn't quit on reads too early, and he kept his focus down field, accepting that he was going to get hit upon releasing the throw. Starting 10 for 10 on third down passing is doubly impressive given the constant pressure that he was under. You can bet that this performance will open another team's eyes if Campbell is allowed to walk.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

I am increasingly lost on this "leadership" stuff. What is it that he doesn't do? He isn't outwardly rah-rah or overtly animated...but what have we had to get him excited and who cares whether he is animated in conversations like Peyton Manning. Doesn't it just matter whether he is having the conversations? By all accounts he puts in proper work, his teammates like him and come foward to defend him. It sounds like he has a lot of respect in the locker room. Sounds leaderish to me.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=SouperMeister;629594]I honestly thought that the Dallas game was Campbell's best of the season. He didn't quit on reads too early, and he kept his focus down field, accepting that he was going to get hit upon releasing the throw. Starting 10 for 10 on third down passing is doubly impressive given the constant pressure that he was under. You can bet that this performance will open another team's eyes if Campbell is allowed to walk.[/quote]

I bet he's already on Oakland's and San Francisco's radar?

Maybe a straight up trade Campbell for Alex Smith?

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

He played well yesterday. He just needs to continue it in the next game.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

Jason Campbell is an average quarterback. There are so many problems with this offense. I don't think Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Tom Brady or David Rivers could compete with this makeshift offensive line, third string running back, backup tight end and pathetic group of wide receivers. Actually Campbell has been doing pretty well with the hand he has been dealt. The Skins should draft a quarterback but retain Campbell until the rookie proves he can perform better. I would not go after a free agent. There is no quick fix.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

Jason Campbell has proven himself to be a great tease with his yo yo type performances from week to week. His story equates well with the old cow & the bucket of milk saying. He does enough in some games to make you believe he's showing promise, while showing so little in others you just wish he would go away.

The production, or lack thereof from the QB position has been confounding at best for a very long time now, there are so many other concerns surrounding the position that until they are addressed the situation is going to remain muddled, and the ability to find answers unresolved. It would be too easy to submit Jason being the reason why we don't win games.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

Jc is what he is, an avg at best qb that needs everything around him to be great in order for him to be a winner.. He is in the middle if the pack if qb's and no I don't see him being here next season especially w a new coach.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=Longtimefan;629610]Jason Campbell has proven himself to be a great tease with his yo yo type performances from week to week. His story equates well with the old cow & the bucket of milk saying.[B] He does enough in some games to make you believe he's showing promise, while showing so little in others you just wish he would go away.[/B]

The production, or lack thereof from the QB position has been confounding at best for a very long time now, there are so many other concerns surrounding the position that until they are addressed the situation is going to remain muddled, and the ability to find answers unresolved. It would be too easy to submit Jason being the reason why we don't win games.[/quote]

This is a problem Campbell shares with the whole team. The same thing could be said with the secondary, receiving corps, o-line, running game and playcalling. It is a rare occurence for this team to get all parts playing well at the same time. Inconsistency has become the norm. Is anyone confident in any one of these parts from week to week? I'm not. Since we signed AH, the one thing I have confidence in is QB pressure...when he plays. We have a GREAT player on the d-line now who makes the other players better. The secondary also plays better when we get pressure. What GREAT player do we have on the o-line? Everything on offense is affected by the o-line. Even playcalling. I find it hard to evaluate any offensive players performance when our o-line is made up by castoffs, UDFA's, and unretired projects. We can win some games with band-aids, innovative playcalling, or some error-free defense once in awhile....but we cannot win consistently. JC makes mistakes, but I have no idea how good he can be. Not with this o-line.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

Who?

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

Personally, the reason I'm conflicted with him is his consistency. Sometimes he gets sacked 6 times, sometimes he has a decent showing like yesterday. Obviously the O-line has a lot to do with it. But even when we had a good O-Line at the beginning of the year he was performing average. He was still was having fumbling problems and locking onto one receiver. Just normal QB mechanical things that you would think that after 5 years, should have been fixed somewhere around year 2 or 3. I mean just quickly glancing over his stats, last year seems to have really been his peak year, he had a good year. 2007 his QB rating looks pretty.. not great and his debut year in 2006 was nothing to write home about.

The way I feel about it is if you have ever looked at JC and if for even one second wondered, "How does this guy have a starting job" Something's wrong.

When does "staying medium" and accepting average as "good enough" become not enough?

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;629577]I have a problem with that last line. Our defense gives up only one score all game and it's their fault we lose? REALLY? [B]C'mon man, JC has got to be able to put up more than 6 points in a game like that... The O has to be able to consistently score in the 20's for us to make the next step towards respectability[/B] .[/quote]

But here is the thing he also has limited tools he is down to his 3rd string RB, 2nd year TE last strand of O-linemen. Name one QB going through this NOW or has been going through throughout his career.......nobody only in DC will you see this kind of stuff.

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

Expectations are so high, because where he was drafted...... but let's remember who drafted him! This is a Gibb's guy, joe could have gotten a much polished aaron rodgers, but he gambled on Campbell was the guy, and again, we are paying for some of Joe drafts..........

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

[quote=53Fan;629633]This is a problem Campbell shares with the whole team. The same thing could be said with the secondary, receiving corps, o-line, running game and playcalling. It is a rare occurence for this team to get all parts playing well at the same time. Inconsistency has become the norm. Is anyone confident in any one of these parts from week to week? I'm not. Since we signed AH, the one thing I have confidence in is QB pressure...when he plays. We have a GREAT player on the d-line now who makes the other players better. The secondary also plays better when we get pressure. What GREAT player do we have on the o-line? Everything on offense is affected by the o-line. Even playcalling. I find it hard to evaluate any offensive players performance when our o-line is made up by castoffs, UDFA's, and unretired projects. We can win some games with band-aids, innovative playcalling, or some error-free defense once in awhile....but we cannot win consistently. JC makes mistakes, but I have no idea how good he can be. Not with this o-line.[/quote]

great post 53

Re: Why Are We So Divided On Jason Campbell?
 

Maybe the mistake was switching Campbell to a West Coast (and yes I know he ran it one year in college) when he had just spent three NFL years learning the Gibbs/Saunders' system