Brunell is killing Portis
 

"Nobody fears their vertical passing game so safeties are making a living on the run," said Rick "Doc" Walker.

That's what I've been saying since day one Doc. I cannot believe anyone still thinks Brunell deserves to be starting. That man belongs in an old age home, not on the football field. He's been killing Portis because no one believes Brunell can throw a pass except to a back or TE in the flat or to a WR running a 5 yard curl. Does anyone actually believe Portis is the bust and not Brunell?

Mark Brunell can't throw on the move, he throws high, he has completed only 2 passes for 30 yards or more this SEASON, he has the least yards per passing play in the NFC, he led this team to its worst offensive outing in 43 YEARS, and he's throwing for what .8 touchdowns per game?

Gibbs is absoltuley crazy for sticking with this guy. I guess he realizes we just made a $40 million mistake and wants to try to see this thing through in the hopes that the Mark Brunell of TWO years ago will resurface. Why not call Sonny Jurgenson? I bet we could get him for less.

Finally, does everyone realize we're going to lose a high 2nd round pick for Brunell? We traded our 3rd rounder last year to get Brunell. To get Cooley, we had to trade next year's second rounder to the Saints. Cooley was on the board when Jacksonville used our 3rd rounder. If we don't shape up fast, we're going to have lost a HIGH second rounder in order to get Brunell.

Brunell alone isn't killing Portis, let's not oversimplify things. The line and Portis himself are contributing to the effort as well.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Brunell alone isn't killing Portis, let's not oversimplify things. The line and Portis himself are contributing to the effort as well.[/QUOTE]

The line is holding Portis down, Portis isn't struggling to pick himself up, but Brunell is strangling him. Matty, do you actually believe Portis is the bust and not Brunell?

It's very easy to say, there's not a single person that is to blame. That's true, a bunch of people are to blame, just one or two people more so than the others.

Brunell is the worst quarterback I've seen here in D.C. since Danny Woefull.
I find it interesting that no one held back their criticisms of Woefull, Matthews, etc. when they were playing. And back then, it would've been a lot easier to say their poor performances were the result of piss poor talent on offense.

Brunell has Coles, Gardner, Jacobs, Thrash, Cooley, Portis, Samuels, Thomas, and others on offense. I've never seen someone do less with more than Mark Brunell.

You guys are excactly right. Brunnel is the main problem with our offense right now. If you look back two our first two games against the bucs and giants, they tried to stop us with 7 men and we absolutely just plowed right through them down the field. Then after that both teams said fuck this, were stacking the box, lets see you guys throw the ball. And to this very day we have not been able to do it. This is the nfl, you got to be able to pass and throw. Once we get a vertical passing game, i don't see us having much sucess.

Portis isn't a bust and neither is Brunell, the entire offense is the bust right now.

I think it's much easier and convenient to blame one guy than the entire unit.

So once Ramsey plays the offense will do a 180? All of a sudden Portis will be a beast, WR's will be wide open and won't drop passes, the clock management will improve, etc?

I guess Ramsey will switch his #11 for a big red 'S' and our problems are solved? I can't wait!

Let me make a prediction:

Ramsey will start within 3 weeks and [B]Portis' numbers go way, way, way up[/B]. Ramsey is no Peyton Manning, but he stretches the field. He'll have turnovers, but he'll move the chains and keep us in every game.

It's sad we knew by the 3rd quarter last week we were done even though we were only down by a TD. Do you know why we felt that way? Because we knew Brunell can't move sh-t. With Ramsey, we might have 2 INTs, but we've ALWAYS got a fighting chance to win.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Portis isn't a bust and neither is Brunell, the entire offense is the bust right now.

I think it's much easier and convenient to blame one guy than the entire unit.

So once Ramsey plays the offense will do a 180? All of a sudden Portis will be a beast, WR's will be wide open and won't drop passes, the clock management will improve, etc?

I guess Ramsey will switch his #11 for a big red 'S' and our problems are solved? I can't wait![/QUOTE]


Matty,

I'm sorry, but I think your devotion to Gibbs, though admirable, is coloring your opinion of Brunell. I've heard you blame a single individual for woes countless times the last two years. All of the sudden, you want to avoid any assessment of blame other than a VERY easy out "it's not one person, it's the entire unit." I think it is far easier to say it's the entire unit, than pointing your finger at one or two problems.

Matty, I'm also glad you committed yourself to saying Brunell isn't a bust. I say he's the biggest bust since Big Daddy.

Without sounding like a d--k, by week 8 I'll re-post this and we'll see whether Brunell is a bust. I'll be happy to eat crow if I'm wrong.

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Let me make a prediction:

Ramsey will start within 3 weeks and [B]Portis' numbers go way, way, way up[/B]. Ramsey is no Peyton Manning, but he stretches the field. He'll have turnovers, but he'll move the chains and keep us in every game.

It's sad we knew by the 3rd quarter last week we were done even though we were only down by a TD. Do you know why we felt that way? Because we knew Brunell can't move sh-t. With Ramsey, we might have 2 INTs, but we've ALWAYS got a fighting chance to win.[/QUOTE]

How right you are.


Even though Ramsey only played a quarter or a quarter and a half in the New York game you can't deny you can see these qualities in him.

1. He has a lot of energy.
2. He will do and indore whatever it takes to win a game.
3. He's not afraid to take chances.
4. He's got a great arm.

Right now Brunnel is showing these qualities.

1. He has no energy.
2. He can't win a game.
3. He will not take any chances.
4. He has a lousy arm.

I'll take Ramsey .

I'll be more than happy to eat crow if Ramsey steps in and becomes the answer to our problems.

I would blame Brunell if he was the main problem, but he's not. He's part of the problem, but he's not the only one. It's not one or two things wrong right now, to say so is really oversimplifying things.

The O-line, Portis, the WR's dropping balls and not running precise routes, the playcalling, the system, etc. are all problems that need correcting and tweaking and it won't matter a damn bit who's behind center as long as these problems exist.

Ramsey isn't a quick fix, far from it.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I'll be more than happy to eat crow if Ramsey steps in and becomes the answer to our problems.

I would blame Brunell if he was the main problem, but he's not. He's part of the problem, but he's not the only one. It's not one or two things wrong right now, to say so is really oversimplifying things.

The O-line, Portis, the WR's dropping balls and not running precise routes, the playcalling, the system, etc. are all problems that need correcting and tweaking and it won't matter a damn bit who's behind center as long as these problems exist.

Ramsey isn't a quick fix, far from it.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you that Ramsey isn't a quick fix or the solution to all of the problems, but he would likely dramatically improve one area. The threat of a downfield passing game which can cause a domino effect. I've said before, regardless of what other skill position players you have, teams make their defensive gameplans based on the QB's weaknesses.

If a team isn't at least concerned about the threat of a passing game they have no hesitation blitzing every 3rd down, putting 8-9 in the box or just sitting back in a zone because they know that arm strength limits some of the throws that he can make. The O-line problems won't be solved by a new QB, but they may be blocking fewer players if the safeties are playing deep rather than shooting a gap. Portis won't be any more patient with a new QB, but he may find more room to run against 7 vs. 9 in the box. I don't care how tough he is, Coles isn't going to keep getting hung out to dry by Brunell every game and still go after the ball with the same vigor. The play he got crushed by Ray Ray on was a high pass that he stretched to get. The WR will be in better positions to catch the ball with a stronger armed QB because he can throw to cause separation, not float to allow for recovery.

All that being said, arm strength isn't the only thing a QB needs to have. Ramsey needs to show he has the other intangibles. We know what Brunell can't do, it's time to see what Ramsey can.

Maybe Brunell isn't the whole problem, but he is the main problem. I'm sick of him missing open receivers because he scrambles before pressure comes close to him. Him throwing it away on 3rd downs is inexcusable. I'm sick of Brunell and I'm sick of watching them lose every week.

I'm a "Brunell hater" right now. I want Ramsey in there right now. But I'm with matty, if it goes the other way, I'll eat crow. Hell, I dont care if they sign Danny Wurfell to come in here... whoevers gonna start winning ballgames. Right now, I belive that person is Ramsey, but if Brunell starts ringing off some good offensive drives consistantly, I'll be happy and eat crow.

I agree that Ramsey would be better at this point. Last night's Packers/Titans game was 34-13 when I turned it off, but I went to bed with the feeling that Farve could bring them back and win it....not that it would happen, but it [I]could[/I]. Why? Because he has a strong arm and puts the ball down the field. Yeah, sometimes (like last night) it doesn't work and he gets like 3 picks, but the possibility is [I]always [/I] there. I'm not saying Ramsey is Farve, but his strong arm gives him the chance to do the same type of things, and even the best have bad games with multiple INT's.
That said, if Brunell gets his shit together, I'm with Gibbs and believe that he can do the job. They just need to be successful on a couple long plays, which they've tried, but they haven't been.
If Brunell looks just as bad as last week this week at Chicago, I fully expect to see Ramsey after the bye. But even if we lose, but Brunell looks decent and DOESN'T TURN THE BALL OVER (his fault or not), I expect Gibbs to stick with him.

"Ramsey has a stronger arm than Brunell, but his weaknesses -- mobility and reading defenses -- are Brunell's strengths. However, Brunell has been criticized for no longer having a strong enough arm for Gibbs's offense, which calls for occasionally going downfield on play-action passes. Brunell is averaging only 5.6 yards per pass completion -- worst in the NFC -- and has completed only two passes for more than 30 yards." - Washington Post

"I was very impressed with Mark Brunell's arm" - Troy Aikman

I really think we have two major problems, the first of which is extremely high expectations for the team this season, leading to severe disappointment at the losses.

As a team, we are going through dramatic change with not only an entirely new system being put in, but really very different leadership in the organization. Joe Gibbs has come in and replaced a laizzez faire coach in Spurrier and really become the de facto leader of the organization. The buck stops with Joe Gibbs now, because Snyder had the wisdom to recognize he didn't have the answers.

If this weren't enough, I think it is clear that just as Gibbs had to adjust his strategy greatly 23 years ago when he first arrived and we were going through a similar period of crisis, Gibbs and the staff will have to make adjustments now. Part of the problem with our offense is that our system needs to be somewhat reenvisioned. Joe Gibbs and the staff are the smartest and most adaptable around, and they will find the answers.

Some folks here want to install Patrick Ramsey as quarterback. Perhaps he would make defenses somewhat more concerned about the deep ball. But with Ramsey in there, you have someone who is not experienced reading defenses and who is not as mobile as I think a quarterback needs to be right now for us given our overall issues as a team. I do think that Brunell's arm strength is adequate. If Ramsey goes in then teams will be able to take advantage of his inexperience. Until we can protect Ramsey better and still have enough receivers going downfield, his mobility and his tendency to hold onto the ball a long time to make a decision will be difficult issues. Brunell is an experienced leader as well and his leadership and determination to succeed here will help lift us.

"Patience is all the strength that a man needs" - Wise Man

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I'll be more than happy to eat crow if Ramsey steps in and becomes the answer to our problems.

I would blame Brunell if he was the main problem, but he's not. He's part of the problem, but he's not the only one. It's not one or two things wrong right now, to say so is really oversimplifying things.

The O-line, Portis, the WR's dropping balls and not running precise routes, the playcalling, the system, etc. are all problems that need correcting and tweaking and it won't matter a damn bit who's behind center as long as these problems exist.

Ramsey isn't a quick fix, far from it.[/QUOTE]


You know Matty I have to go with RF on this one, reason? I can't believe that our O-line is this bad, I just can't believe it, Doc walker has the opportunity to watch the game in person, he is able to see the field much better than those of us who don't have that opportunity, I am not saying our line can rival the hog's in any way, but I just can't believe that they are that bad, I just don't think defenses worry one bit about Brunell's passing ability, basically I think he hit the nail on the head, we only throw to back's, and end's, because Brunnel can't make the other throw's, let's face it, his bomb's to Gardner in the cowboy game were jump ball's, won by gardner making a spectacular catch, Ramsey will without a doubt will have growing pain's, and until he start's burning the D, and proves he can throw the ball down field, they will probably approach him the same way they approach Brunell, but I think that will be short lived, let's face it Brunell is going backwards in his progression as a QB in this offense, Ramsey will do nothind but go forward, I was never big on Brunell, even when he was putting up the number's in Jacks., I just didn't see him as a passer, he was more of a playmaker, and those guy's are usually shut down by a good defense, which is what you usually see in the playoff's, with his mobility on it's way out, I believe we are now seeing Brunell the thrower, and it's pretty ugly.

Gibb's has to swallow his pride right now, and make the switch, he's been out of the game for a long time, I don't think he really new enough about Brunell, he made a stat's decision, without really looking at how this guy has succeeded in the league the last decade, Brunell is nothing without his leg's, and he is no longer capable of running all over the field. He may not be the complete problem I agree, but we have to take into account that the foot bone is connected to the ankle bone, and so on and so forth, the change has to be made, and made now, but I don't think Gibb's will make the switch, until the season is basically over for us.

Portis has no 'pop' in his running. Even the few times he seems to break into somewhat open field it seems as if he does not know what to do or where to cut. He just does not seem like the back the redskins thought they were getting when the traded for him.

[QUOTE=skins009]You guys are excactly right. Brunnel is the main problem with our offense right now. If you look back two our first two games against the bucs and giants, they tried to stop us with 7 men and we absolutely just plowed right through them down the field. Then after that both teams said fuck this, were stacking the box, lets see you guys throw the ball. And to this very day we have not been able to do it. This is the nfl, you got to be able to pass and throw. Once we get a vertical passing game, i don't see us having much sucess.[/QUOTE]

If your'e gonna mention every game that Brunell has played in this year and say he hasn't been able to throw the ball down field, then what in the hell did he do against Dallas? I mean his connection to Gardner was exceptional and he deserved the credit for avoiding the sack and throwing the last TD to Gardner. See it's easy to point the finger at the QB when the passing game isn't successful. Gibbs has admitted that he is partly responsible with that problem. Gibbs is sending only two receivers on routes that make it easy to double cover them. He needs to get back to stacking four WR's and letting them three run short routes while one runs the long route. This is what he did against Dallas and it worked. Another point about Brunell is his leadership. The no huddle offense works but Brunell needs to be able to get into a rhythm and keep the defense off balance. This also worked against Dallas. No INTS against the CowBitches and 325 yds. in passing is not bad, so the blame still goes all around.

[QUOTE=irish]Portis has no 'pop' in his running. Even the few times he seems to break into somewhat open field it seems as if he does not know what to do or where to cut. He just does not seem like the back the redskins thought they were getting when the traded for him.[/QUOTE]

That's what I see. He's trying to be everything for the offense. Blocking, catching and not focusing on running. I tell you this. After the Giants game, Portis was not the same. The turnovers bothered him and it seems he hasn't shaken it off. Then it happened again in Cleveland. Brunell has to take the blame for everything that the involving the offense including challenging plays?

The way I look at it is if Brunell and Portis are struggling then theres only one person (or should I say group) to blame and that's the o-line. Portis can't run because he has no holes. Brunell sometimes doesn't have the time to throw downfield. Without the o-line clicking then you can forget about the whole offense. It all starts up front.

That being said, if the offense continues to struggle then I wouldn't be surprised if they do bench Brunell. But there is no way Brunell takes all the blame for Portis not being able to run the ball consistently.

Once Portis stops thinking so much and just starts running he'll be fine.

Matty:

Don't be too frustrated with this thread. There is a glimmer of hope.

At least we don't have anyone - as yet - calling for Sultan to replace Clinton based on the showings in exhibition games and/or for Gibran Hamden to return to town to save the season based on his sterling performances in NFL Europe last spring.

Remember, it is always darkest just before the lights go out completely...

And the light at the end of the tunnel is an express train heading your way.........

im not sure the line is the problem. there is very simply to many people in the box to block because there is no threat down the field

SC:

We have had a few posts calling for McCullough. I think it's Sunra that's the Sultan fan.

None for Hamdan, but positive for Hasselbeck.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]If your'e gonna mention every game that Brunell has played in this year and say he hasn't been able to throw the ball down field, then what in the hell did he do against Dallas? I mean his connection to Gardner was exceptional and he deserved the credit for avoiding the sack and throwing the last TD to Gardner. See it's easy to point the finger at the QB when the passing game isn't successful. Gibbs has admitted that he is partly responsible with that problem. Gibbs is sending only two receivers on routes that make it easy to double cover them. He needs to get back to stacking four WR's and letting them three run short routes while one runs the long route. This is what he did against Dallas and it worked. Another point about Brunell is his leadership. The no huddle offense works but Brunell needs to be able to get into a rhythm and keep the defense off balance. This also worked against Dallas. No INTS against the CowBitches and 325 yds. in passing is not bad, so the blame still goes all around.[/QUOTE]


How can they put 8 men in the box if their double covering 2 wr's, as well we alway's have either a TE, or back, running a pattern, so I do not believe that can be correct, as for Brunell's number's in the cowboy game, he made 1 nice throw for a TD, and guess what, he scrabled to do it, but it was defiently a nice play on his part, but even a broken clock is right twice a day, as far as the bulk of his yardage, it came on 2 throw's to Gardner, jump ball's, throwing a ball up for grab's is not a high percentage pass, and dangerous, those were desperation throw's, point out a nice deep ball he has thrown, if he threw that pass a little further last game, he could have hit coles for a TD instead of an INT to Deion, as it was he had coles turning the wrong way, Ramsey completed as many deep ball's in 2 quarter's, as brunell has in 4 1/2 games.

I agree that Gibb's is partly resposible for the passing problem's, he is the one starting Brunell.

Guys, I hate to say it, but I don't see Brunell sitting down anytime soon.

I think Gibbs likes the fact that he throws the ball away and doesn't try to fit it into double-coverage.

The crux of the problem is that teams are loading up to stop the run and playing tight coverage. Brunell just doesn't have the arm to make them pay downfield, nor do I think he has the mentality. He would be perfect if we were somehow running effectively because he would be able to get better opportunities via play-action, but things just aren't clicking right now.

Sometimes, a change at QB can be great, but they just aren't ready to take that chance yet.

Unfortunately.

[QUOTE=SUNRA]If your'e gonna mention every game that Brunell has played in this year and say he hasn't been able to throw the ball down field, then what in the hell did he do against Dallas? I mean his connection to Gardner was exceptional and he deserved the credit for avoiding the sack and throwing the last TD to Gardner. See it's easy to point the finger at the QB when the passing game isn't successful. Gibbs has admitted that he is partly responsible with that problem. Gibbs is sending only two receivers on routes that make it easy to double cover them. He needs to get back to stacking four WR's and letting them three run short routes while one runs the long route. This is what he did against Dallas and it worked. Another point about Brunell is his leadership. The no huddle offense works but Brunell needs to be able to get into a rhythm and keep the defense off balance. This also worked against Dallas. No INTS against the CowBitches and 325 yds. in passing is not bad, so the blame still goes all around.[/QUOTE]

17 minutes of good play doesn't balance out against 283 minutes of piss poor play. Are you actually saying Brunell doesn't deserve criticism?

He's got the fewest yards per pass attempt in the NFC and the fewest deep balls in the entire league. That's not someone who's succeeding at throwing a deep ball.

5.6 Yards per pass is pretty much the only number I need to see. That is freaking rediculous. 5.6 yards per pass?????

[QUOTE=Drift Reality]Guys, I hate to say it, but I don't see Brunell sitting down anytime soon.

I think Gibbs likes the fact that he throws the ball away and doesn't try to fit it into double-coverage.

The crux of the problem is that teams are loading up to stop the run and playing tight coverage. Brunell just doesn't have the arm to make them pay downfield, nor do I think he has the mentality. He would be perfect if we were somehow running effectively because he would be able to get better opportunities via play-action, but things just aren't clicking right now.

Sometimes, a change at QB can be great, but they just aren't ready to take that chance yet.

Unfortunately.[/QUOTE]


DR I think you hit on the head, Brunell does not have the mentality to get the ball downfield, he never learned how to be a pocket passer, which mean's you really have to be able to read a defense, his deep ball's in jax. were a lot of times, broken play's.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]SC:

We have had a few posts calling for McCullough. I think it's Sunra that's the Sultan fan.

None for Hamdan, but positive for Hasselbeck.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I think Sultan needs to be activated because there is a void in our one dimensional running game. Gibbs ususally has at least three RB's rotating in the backfield, and it is sad to see Portis handling 99% of the running game with these results. Get Barrow's ass on the IR list and give someone a chance to help this team.

[QUOTE=offiss]How can they put 8 men in the box if their double covering 2 wr's, as well we alway's have either a TE, or back, running a pattern, so I do not believe that can be correct, as for Brunell's number's in the cowboy game, he made 1 nice throw for a TD, and guess what, he scrabled to do it, but it was defiently a nice play on his part, but even a broken clock is right twice a day, as far as the bulk of his yardage, it came on 2 throw's to Gardner, jump ball's, throwing a ball up for grab's is not a high percentage pass, and dangerous, those were desperation throw's, point out a nice deep ball he has thrown, if he threw that pass a little further last game, he could have hit coles for a TD instead of an INT to Deion, as it was he had coles turning the wrong way, Ramsey completed as many deep ball's in 2 quarter's, as brunell has in 4 1/2 games.

I agree that Gibb's is partly resposible for the passing problem's, he is the one starting Brunell.[/QUOTE]

Brunell did everything that he was supposed to do to put us in a position to win the Dallas game. I don't care whether it was rushed or not, the reality is that he had over 15 first downs and that came from passes to Cooley, Coles and Gardner. Brunell threw the long pass when he had to and still the question is why is Gibbs sticking with him. In the Cleveland game Coles caught 122yds in passes so there is clearly a problem that is not Brunell's fault. Remember no fumbles or INT's in either game.

Ramsey's INT and sack percentage were much higher than Brunell's at this point last year. I've looked at the pass that Brunell threw to Coles and I'll give credit where credit is unfortunately due. Deion Sanders made an exceptional play. The ball was perfectly thrown to Coles. Unfortunately Sanders came over to assist the other CB who Coles had beaten.

Gmanc711:

Since "5.6 yards per pass is pretty much the only number [you] need to see", I'm sure you already know that Patrick Ramsey's career number is 6.6 yards per attempt. Before you get overly excited about that number, let me give you a yardstick.

Gus Frerotte averages 7.1 yards per attempt.

So, if that number is "pretty much all you need to see", I'm sure you will enlighten all of us as to the glory that Gus could lead this team to if he were to materialize here.

And I'm sure you already know that Mark Brunell's career average gain per attempt is 7.0 yards per attempt - which is 6% higher than Ramsey's - and that is "pretty much all you need to see". Right?

ramsey's int % may have been slightly higher, but his turnover % was way way lower... brunell fumbles inside the 30 A LOT...

[quote=SUNRA]If your'e gonna mention every game that Brunell has played in this year and say he hasn't been able to throw the ball down field, then what in the hell did he do against Dallas? I mean his connection to Gardner was exceptional and he deserved the credit for avoiding the sack and throwing the last TD to Gardner. See it's easy to point the finger at the QB when the passing game isn't successful. Gibbs has admitted that he is partly responsible with that problem. Gibbs is sending only two receivers on routes that make it easy to double cover them. He needs to get back to stacking four WR's and letting them three run short routes while one runs the long route. This is what he did against Dallas and it worked. Another point about Brunell is his leadership. The no huddle offense works but Brunell needs to be able to get into a rhythm and keep the defense off balance. This also worked against Dallas. No INTS against the CowBitches and 325 yds. in passing is not bad, so the blame still goes all around.[/quote]

you keep pointing out the same 3-4 plays.... 4 good plays in 5 games IS NOT ENOUGH, not even close... let's talk about the 3427823 times he threw it away... the open receivers he's constantly bypassed for a 4 yarder... the way that he's not scoring (.8 TDs per game, and he's given up 21 points himself)

[quote=SUNRA]I've looked at the pass that Brunell threw to Coles and I'll give credit where credit is unfortunately due. Deion Sanders made an exceptional play. The ball was perfectly thrown to Coles. Unfortunately Sanders came over to assist the other CB who Coles had beaten.[/quote]

no, coles had them both beat and brunell decided to throw to sanders instead... that was a bad play by brunell, not a good play by deion...

Perfectly thrown to Coles? Are you serious? He had to slow down and try to turn around to play defense.

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]And I'm sure you already know that Mark Brunell's career average gain per attempt is 7.0 yards per attempt - which is 6% higher than Ramsey's - and that is "pretty much all you need to see". Right?[/QUOTE]
and you realize as he gets older his arm is only going to get worse, right?

I don't see gibbs changing QBs right now, he tends to stick by them "till the bitter lemon-sucking end" but defending brunell's play with anything besides "everyone else sucks too" is a bit hard to swallow, cause his play has been nothing short of wretched... some people here keep pointing to the same 3-4 plays... guess what? 3 good plays in 5 games IS NOT ENOUGH... that's like me asking you to look at how awesome ramsey is for his TD throw and to just ignore his 3 ints... sounds silly doesn't it?

and i can''t see this thing with sultan... i think 4 other RBs on our roster would have to be [b]DEAD[/b] before he even had a shot at playing time... he couldn't light up 3rd stringers, he's slower and smaller than portis, and his hands aren't as good... which obviously makes him the best back in the league it seems...

The pass to Coles wasn't a bad pass, it was well placed, but it wasn't a wise decision considering the coverage, Coles wasn't open.

Hopefull for a turnaround
 

Hopefully Brunell will be able to defend his own actions this week, if not, we have someone with a tremendous amount of potential lined up to take his place. I am sure that Gibbs is well aware of that! :)

[QUOTE=That Guy]ramsey's int % may have been slightly higher, but his turnover % was way way lower... brunell fumbles inside the 30 A LOT...



you keep pointing out the same 3-4 plays.... 4 good plays in 5 games IS NOT ENOUGH, not even close... let's talk about the 3427823 times he threw it away... the open receivers he's constantly bypassed for a 4 yarder... the way that he's not scoring (.8 TDs per game, and he's given up 21 points himself)



no, coles had them both beat and brunell decided to throw to sanders instead... that was a bad play by brunell, not a good play by deion...[/QUOTE]

I'll say it again. 2 INTS in 5 games. 3 fumbles in 5 games. I'll take a ball thrown out of bounds over a sack or a forced pass like Ramsey has made a career of . Ramsey has thrown more INTs in one game than Brunell in 5 games. But I know, he had the pressure on him to dig us out of a hole that Brunell put us in. Well I'm here to tell you Ramsey won't be able to dig us out of a four game losing streak either.

[QUOTE=sportscurmudgeon]Gmanc711:

Since "5.6 yards per pass is pretty much the only number [you] need to see", I'm sure you already know that Patrick Ramsey's career number is 6.6 yards per attempt. Before you get overly excited about that number, let me give you a yardstick.

Gus Frerotte averages 7.1 yards per attempt.

So, if that number is "pretty much all you need to see", I'm sure you will enlighten all of us as to the glory that Gus could lead this team to if he were to materialize here.

And I'm sure you already know that Mark Brunell's career average gain per attempt is 7.0 yards per attempt - which is 6% higher than Ramsey's - and that is "pretty much all you need to see". Right?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, its pretty much still all I need to see. I watch the Redskins every week and I know exactly what that number means. Its the very indication of why Brunell and our offense as a whole, is having trouble. Because we are only throwing it 5 yards per pass. Ramseys numbers or Ferrottes number mean nothing to me, because I have watched them and know that they do take shots down the feild. Brunells arm is getting weak, our offense sucks, we need a change. If we had a crappy defense, I really wouldnt even care this much, but I'm so p*ssed that we are wasting this defense. We need a change on offense, weather its playcalling, quarterback , I dont care. I personally feel that change should be at quarterback, but thats just me.

Gmanc711:

Let me try one more time. Yards per attempt is a statistic but it is not "all anyone needs to see".

Patrick Ramsey's yards per attempt for his career is 6.61

Donovan McNabb's yards per attempt for his career is 6.28.

Vinny Testaverde's yards per attempt for his career is 6.92.

Tom Brady's yards per pass attempt for his career is 6.74.

If that is all anyone needs to see, then the Eagles would be thrilled to trade McNabb for Ramsey even-up. You can't believe that.

If that is all anyone needs to see, then Ramsey for Testaverde would be a great way to screw over the Cowboys. Do you like that proposed trade?

The difference between Tom Brady and Patrick Ramsey is less than 5 inches per pass attempt. If that is all anyone needs to see, would you say that Ramsey is about 5 inches away from two Super Bowl MVP Awards? He's not - yet!

By the way, Tom Brady has been pretty successful in his three and a quarter seasons so far. (I'm not counting 2000 where he got into only one game and threw only 3 passes.) In those three and a quarter years, he has completed only 19 passes of more than 40 yards; that comes to about one every eleven quarters of football. My point is that you can be pretty efficient and effective as a QB throwing a lot of short stuff as long as you complete a lot of them; you don't have to throw it downfield all the time. What you need to be successful is a complete team around you. Tom Brady has that; Ramsey/Brunell/Hasselbeck/Hamden/Whomever does not have that in Washington just now. There's more to it that yards per pass attempt and frustration with the play calling that does not have enough fly patterns to suit your preferences.

So, my point is that there is MORE to see and more to observe and more to analyze than yards per passing attempt - unless of course the number is ZERO and then you would indeed have all the info you needed to see.