Offense = Disappointment
 

Granted Campbell had two turn overs. The audible was horrible. The pick was a good play by the Giant defender so you have to give him his props. campbell was throwing it somewhere he thought the WR coudl only get it. But the DB beat him there by an inch.

Other than those things mention above I think JC played "okay". Not his best. The O-line was kinda shakey. Good at points. Then others not so good. Especially on rushing plays.

I have a few questions. Why are we running on third and long and why aren't we using these receivers we got on the squad. We might as well not drafted them. Kelly 1 catch. Any of the other rookies catch a pass. Jim Zorn is a horrible O Coordinator. Whatever WR on the field needs to create more separation.

Running game sucked beside the one first play. I think our O;s momentum was sunk by that stupid ARE play. Not to mention all the mental lapses on both side. Zorn needs to right the ship or he migh tno make it thourhg the season. Real talk.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

As if one of your threads wasn't enough. First game of the season. Relax.

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I'm disappointed that more receivers weren't more involved in the passing game. Where were Kelly, Thomas, Mitchell and Davis in the passing routes? We need to use all those guys and air it out.

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[quote=SFREDSKIN;588276]I'm disappointed that more receivers weren't more involved in the passing game. Where were Kelly, Thomas, Mitchell and Davis in the passing routes? We need to use all those guys and air it out.[/quote]We didn't really pass much at all. 26 attempts in a 60 minute game is nothing. For the losing team, it's inexcusable.

If you throw 19 passes in the first 57 minutes of a game, you can't get anyone involved.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

[quote=Smooter;588270]As if one of your threads wasn't enough. First game of the season. Relax.[/quote]


Dude. Go look at the other threads. I am just stating the obvious. I am not yelling... Vinny, Cerratoo, Zorn, Campbell must go!! Didn't ask you if one of my threads was enough did I? Comment or don't -- How about that? Dude isn't this called a "forum"? Just make a remark related to football and stop acting like a fake moderator. Fi the moderator feels this is a realted thread they will merge.

Now back to talking football..

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

[quote=GTripp0012;588290]We didn't really pass much at all. 26 attempts in a 60 minute game is nothing. For the losing team, it's inexcusable.

If you throw 19 passes in the first 57 minutes of a game, you can't get anyone involved.[/quote]


Exactly. We are all happy over our WR depth and we only use one..lol

and that's ARE

I think the offense made too many mental mistakes as well as the defense. But the playcalling was HORRENDOUS and that probably had a lot to do with the personnel that Zorn used in the game also.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

Lack of play call imagination. Zorn looked like a fish out of water with is tasteless dressing vanilla calls. They locked up Moss and took their chances with Cooley so why not go after them with TE all day? F*cking A. Pierce can't run for shit and you let him off the hook.

Heyer got his salad tossed by Tuck. Thomas didn't do shit. Why the fuck didn't we run right all day long? Instead of 3 WR sets why not have extra TE on the left to run block? I can't believe we couldn't get 4 yards with that all day long.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

[quote=GTripp0012;588290]We didn't really pass much at all. 26 attempts in a 60 minute game is nothing. For the losing team, it's inexcusable.

If you throw 19 passes in the first 57 minutes of a game, you can't get anyone involved.[/quote]

Essentially I agree with you. I hope we tilt more towards the pass in the future.

Mitigating this, though, is that we only ran 50 plays. 50 plays! Part of the reason for this was our non-existent ground game. In other words, if we had run more effectively, the offense would have been on the field for more plays, allowing more passes as well.

Oh, and of course, the defense has to get them off the field as well if we are to run more plays. We got killed in time of possession.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

[quote=saden1;588316]Lack of play call imagination. Zorn looked like a fish out of water with is tasteless dressing vanilla calls. They locked up Moss and took their chances with Cooley so why not go after them with TE all day? F*cking A. Pierce can't run for shit and you let him off the hook.

[B]Heyer got his salad tossed by Tuck[/B]. Thomas didn't do shit. Why the fuck didn't we run right all day long? Instead of 3 WR sets why not have extra TE on the left to run block? I can't believe we couldn't get 4 yards with that all day long.[/quote]

Now you know they can't put that on television.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

[quote=Lotus;588325]Essentially I agree with you. I hope we tilt more towards the pass in the future.

Mitigating this, though, is that we only ran 50 plays. 50 plays! Part of the reason for this was our non-existent ground game. In other words, if we had run more effectively, the offense would have been on the field for more plays, allowing more passes as well.

Oh, and of course, the defense has to get them off the field as well if we are to run more plays. We got killed in time of possession.[/quote]We are the kings of the 4 minute offensive drive that takes 6 plays and covers 12 yards.

I mean, the argument that the defense doesn't get enough time to rest is such a completely ridiculous argument. Even our 3 & outs chew up 1/3 of a quarter.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

[quote=GTripp0012;588290]We didn't really pass much at all. 26 attempts in a 60 minute game is nothing. For the losing team, it's inexcusable.

If you throw 19 passes in the first 57 minutes of a game, you can't get anyone involved.[/quote]

Yes, Zorn clearly went away from the pass in this game. You'll have a breakdown I'm sure but I believe I saw Jason was 8 for 11 at one point, but then Zorn went almost completely to the run (and we got stuffed almost every time).

I would just say those who may want to downplay today's performance are not seeing the game. Zorn's ability as an OC (let alone an HC) is hugely questionable. I can honestly say I predicted over half our snaps this game...that's means Bill Sheridan and Coughlin predicted something like 90% probably.

The WRs we're supposed to have developed look absolutely lost in a live game. This is an indictment of their position coach, Hixon, and anyone who tries to argue otherwise has a screw loose. Hixon should be waived tonight and go find someone who has a shot at developing all we've invested at the position (he's never developed a WR in his professional career...it's just ridiculous he's still here).

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

[quote=The Goat;588349]Yes, Zorn clearly went away from the pass in this game. You'll have a breakdown I'm sure but I believe I saw Jason was 8 for 11 at one point, but then Zorn went almost completely to the run (and we got stuffed almost every time).

I would just say those who may want to downplay today's performance are not seeing the game. Zorn's ability as an OC (let alone an HC) is hugely questionable. I can honestly say I predicted over half our snaps this game...that's means Bill Sheridan and Coughlin predicted something like 90% probably.

The WRs we're supposed to have developed look absolutely lost in a live game. This is an indictment of their position coach, Hixon, and anyone who tries to argue otherwise has a screw loose. Hixon should be waived tonight and go find someone who has a shot at developing all we've invested at the position (he's never developed a WR in his professional career...it's just ridiculous he's still here).[/quote]Well, he might have developed Malcolm Kelly. We won't know until the middle of the year.

He does have all the receivers blocking, for one thing.

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I have to wonder if Zorn was too confident that the defense would easily draw three and outs and that's why he decided to pound Portis repeatedly to the left while moving Sellers in motion.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

Losing=Dissapointment

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[quote=T.O.Killa;588357]Losing=Dissapointment[/quote]

So true.

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[quote=SirClintonPortis;588355]I have to wonder if Zorn was too confident that the defense would easily draw three and outs and that's why he decided to pound Portis repeatedly to the left while moving Sellers in motion.[/quote]Almost certainly this is the case.

But 1) he should have known better, being around for the preseason and all, and 2) it's not an excuse for not doing more of what you were successful at.

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What's odd is that JC had a slightly better QB rating (93.6 vs 93.5) than Eli. They both had a fumble, a pick, and a TD. But JCs fumble went for a TD, the gints had better yardage, and they had much better ToP. What's really weird is how statistically close--and close on the scoreboard--this game was, but watching it, I never felt we had a chance. We just looked like losers out there.

Gotta start believing. The gints are not that good, but they NEVER beat themselves, and they just believe that we are not a real threat. And they seem to be right. I HATE that.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

[quote=JWsleep;588372]What's odd is that JC had a slightly better QB rating (93.6 vs 93.5) than Eli. They both had a fumble, a pick, and a TD. But JCs fumble went for a TD, the gints had better yardage, and they had much better ToP. What's really weird is how statistically close--and close on the scoreboard--this game was, but watching it, I never felt we had a chance. We just looked like losers out there.

Gotta start believing. The gints are not that good, but they NEVER beat themselves, and they just believe that we are not a real threat. And they seem to be right. I HATE that.[/quote]

I had posted a thread a while ago about JC vs Eli stats and how they were very familiar. So this lends to that point.

We just made too many mental mistakes. I think everything can be corrected. But it wont matter if the play calling doesn't get better.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

[quote=GTripp0012;588370]Almost certainly this is the case.

But 1) he should have known better, being around for the preseason and all, and 2) it's not an excuse for not doing more of what you were successful at.[/quote]
Indeed, the passing game (ARE) was the brighter spot of the O today even with
the turnovers and crap and WCO is supposed to be pass first.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

If you guys are watching the Packers game right now, you would see that we should doing what Rogers is doing AIRING IT OUT!!

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Also, have you seen Cutler's 2 INTs? He's a gunslinger...

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Tried to air it out one too many--safety!

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Back to the thread--until we hit the long ball a few times, we are not going to bother folks. But the real killer is the third down efficiency, especially third and short. That's gotta improve.

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[quote=SirClintonPortis;588382]Indeed, the passing game (ARE) was the brighter spot of the O today even with
the turnovers and crap and WCO is supposed to be pass first.[/quote]

You got a great point there!! Maybe that's why this offense isn't working???

On this game. A complete team failure. You can't even pin it on just one player. Coaching on defense and offense was horrible.

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Oh, and another bad pick from Cutler--franchise, anyone?

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SOOOOO.........this is the West Coast Offense?
I thought it would be different.......

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It's been said many times and in many different ways, but the bottom line is (and there's only one way to say it) the offense lacks consistency. Identifying the problem is not that difficult, knowing what to do about is what's more important. Do you think the coaches know what to do?

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

I wonder if Zorn is trying to adapt too much to the players he has--CP, in particular. Yes, we've got CP and Buges, but maybe we should throw first to set up the run?

And there is something to JC in the shotgun and hurry-up. He was quick and decisive there--yes, the gints were in prevent, but he didn't hesitate.

I still feel, either way, that we'll look better next week and everyone will say, Oh, Zorn opened it up, JC found some skill, etc. etc. The gints are good at defense. They make you look bad. Not an excuse, just a fact. Good teams find a way to win anyway. We didn't. But I'm not sure a total tear-down is in order.

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When we get a coach that is worth a crap then some of these issues might, and I said might, be fixed. But not until then. Synder created this monster of a non not knowing how to coach coaching staff.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

If this game were indicative (which is is not) of the entire season, the following would be true:
Our line is not stout enough for an effective running game left, and non-exisitent to the right.
JC is making some silly mistakes-see failure to step up leading to strip and subseguent G- score.
O-line cannot give adequate protection for JC.
Recievers are not getting open or JC fals to see them
REALLY UNimaginative play calling
Blessfully.........this will not be the case next week
There's not place like home, there's no place like home.........

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

[quote=JWsleep;588426]I wonder if Zorn is trying to adapt too much to the players he has--CP, in particular. Yes, we've got CP and Buges, but maybe we should throw first to set up the run?

And there is something to JC in the shotgun and hurry-up. He was quick and decisive there--yes, the gints were in prevent, but he didn't hesitate.

I still feel, either way, that we'll look better next week and everyone will say, Oh, Zorn opened it up, JC found some skill, etc. etc. The gints are good at defense. They make you look bad. Not an excuse, just a fact. Good teams find a way to win anyway. We didn't. But I'm not sure a total tear-down is in order.[/quote]


Yeah I think Jason Campbell looks good in the shotgun. He always looks good in the hurry up. So why aren't we incorporating this more. I think the problem is he isn't chanign the plans to utilize the players he has. Another thing people have to keep in mind. He came from the AFC West. He needs to get it in his head. This is the NFC Beast. Smash mouth football. He needs to run the ball down their throat and atleast take one shot down the field each quarter. Also I have to scream this. WTF is up with our time management. We did this a few times last year. Like we just give up and don't have a sense of urgency. The coaching really sucks man. I hope Zorn steps up. Because there are high school coaches that can call better plays and game manage better than this.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

[quote=Longtimefan;588418]It's been said many times and in many different ways, but the bottom line is (and there's only one way to say it) the offense lacks consistency. Identifying the problem is not that difficult, knowing what to do about is what's more important. Do you think the coaches know what to do?[/quote]

My opinion is the coachs don't know what to do. I trully feel if they knew what to do we might not have alot of these problems. But what they do know how to do pretty good is make silly, pathetic, stupid, etc. excuses for the way this team plays. Until Zorn stands up and gets up in all the players asses (provided Synder will let him be a man, ) there will be no disclipine like there has been any way.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

There is one area of the offense that gets a straight F grade on the day.

I'm still in shock looking at the numbers.

The passing game to the outside was quite literally non existent today.

It's laughable that we did that. It's clown shoes cowardly football. I just don't know yet if it was JC or JZ who didn't have the balls to throw outside.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

[quote=wilsowilso;588549]There is one area of the offense that gets a straight F grade on the day.

I'm still in shock looking at the numbers.

The passing game to the outside was quite literally non existent today.

It's laughable that we did that. It's clown shoes cowardly football. I just don't know yet if it was JC or JZ who didn't have the balls to throw outside.[/quote]

U mean our top two receivers who combined for 12 yeards on three catches?

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

Here's my beef with the offense....

- Trick plays against a top defense = bad idea.

- I could be wrong but I got the sense that JC was looking for the deep ball wayyy too much (hence the Osi strip)

- Cooley fumbled once (recovered out of bounds) and almost fumbled a second time, WTF?

- When playing a top defense, can JC use his feet a bit better in the pocket and maybe look to the run a bit more?

- The accidental screen to Betts looked great, I think they should look into doing a bit more of those against aggressive blitzing defenses.

ARE looked great in the slot, but he shouldn't be the only one catching the ball. Cooley needs to stop f'ing fumbling, and our running game needs to get better.

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[quote=saden1;588316]Lack of play call imagination. Zorn looked like a fish out of water with is tasteless dressing vanilla calls. They locked up Moss and took their chances with Cooley so why not go after them with TE all day? F*cking A. Pierce can't run for shit and you let him off the hook.

[B]Heyer got his salad tossed by Tuck[/B]. Thomas didn't do shit. Why the fuck didn't we run right all day long? Instead of 3 WR sets why not have extra TE on the left to run block? I can't believe we couldn't get 4 yards with that all day long.[/quote]

lol. nice way to put it. but were you honestly expecting heyer to hold down tuck? c'mon.

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I'm curious what ya'll think of this idea. What if Zorn went "sink or swim" w/ Kelly and Thomas at #1 and #2 WR?

Moss doesn't look like a legit #1 WR anymore (some would argue he never did) and ultimately we're not gonna achieve jack unless these two guys actually produce. Also Moss is responsible for JC's INT...typical Moss he just gives up part of the time as he did in GB two years ago. I would honestly like to see Moss benched next week and Zorn start Kelley and Thomas and play them the entire game. Moss can take turns in the slot w/ ARL.

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[quote=The Goat;588623]I'm curious what ya'll think of this idea. What if Zorn went "sink or swim" w/ Kelly and Thomas at #1 and #2 WR?

Moss doesn't look like a legit #1 WR anymore (some would argue he never did) and ultimately we're not gonna achieve jack unless these two guys actually produce. Also Moss is responsible for JC's INT...typical Moss he just gives up part of the time as he did in GB two years ago. I would honestly like to see Moss benched next week and Zorn start Kelley and Thomas and play them the entire game. Moss can take turns in the slot w/ ARL.[/quote]I don't think I'd criticize him for this. I personally don't think Thomas can play, but if he's going to get a shot at the expense of someone that isn't Malcolm Kelly, it's probably worth the oppertunity cost.

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[quote=GTripp0012;588634]I don't think I'd criticize him for this. I personally don't think Thomas can play, but if he's going to get a shot at the expense of someone that isn't Malcolm Kelly, it's probably worth the oppertunity cost.[/quote]

I would rather try that crazy idea with Marko Mitchell over Devin Thomas.

Santana is still a fine player, but damn did he have a pitiful game today.

Re: Offense = Disappointment
 

[quote=wilsowilso;588638]I would rather try that crazy idea with Marko Mitchell over Devin Thomas.

[B]Santana is still a fine player, but damn did he have a pitiful game today.[/quote][/B]

Here's reason #1523 why I hate these one player hate-threads (when they are about players that certain people just hate no matter what)...there's a thread about how terrible D. Hall was....and yes we gave him money and he sucked it up against a young receiver. But, as I said, you lose as a team, and if you're going to bitch and whine about D. Hall then let's also talk bout Santana Moss....he's our #1 receiver, he's supposed to be one of our best offensive weapons...instead he almost cost the team a terrible personal foul penalty, a pass was picked in front of him, and he was basically a non-factor.

That said, I say hell let's throw the young wideouts to the fire if the likes of Santana are not going to get their act together.