Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

Seeing the emergence of Marko Mitchell. Hoping he continues to progress and move up the depth chart. With Moss, Kelly, ARE, Mitchell, Thomas as the receivers and maybe that way on the depth chart. Would it be more likely that MM's emergence could change one position. Could it affect if we keep Mason or Dorsey. Could we give Thomas kick return duty and release Rock Cartwright?

Dorsey is a good return man (eventhough he looks better than Rock). But not a good running back. Mason is a good running back from what I have seen the last few years. So if Marko makes the team could it in the end affect Rock being a Redskins. Because we can use Devin on Kick Returns since Mitchell has came on strong and continues to impove. I think could be the best solution in the end.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

they aren't going to kick cartwright out just so devin can return balls. rock's proven and adds special teams value.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=That Guy;579928]they aren't going to kick cartwright out just so devin can return balls. rock's proven and adds special teams value.[/quote]Yeah, Cartwright plays on every part of ST except for the FG team. He plays them well too.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

I think that Rock's overall abilities on ST will keep him around; have we ever tried Mason at returns?

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=tryfuhl;579930]I think that Rock's overall abilities on ST will keep him around;[B] have we ever tried Mason at returns[/B]?[/quote]

Yeah, last pre-season and he fumbled on his first attempt.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

It won't matter who is returning kicks if the blocking doesn't get better. Special teams kick coverage is a disaster right now too.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

Oh hell yeah they've sucked for years fire the coach.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;579922]Seeing the emergence of Marko Mitchell. Hoping he continues to progress and move up the depth chart. With Moss, Kelly, ARE, Mitchell, Thomas as the receivers and maybe that way on the depth chart. Would it be more likely that MM's emergence could change one position. Could it affect if we keep Mason or Dorsey. Could we give Thomas kick return duty and release Rock Cartwright?

Dorsey is a good return man (eventhough he looks better than Rock). But not a good running back. Mason is a good running back from what I have seen the last few years. So if Marko makes the team could it in the end affect Rock being a Redskins. Because we can use Devin on Kick Returns since Mitchell has came on strong and continues to impove. I think could be the best solution in the end.[/quote]

Maybe I'm missing something but how do you get that Dorsey is better returner than Rock? Our biggest problem is on punts and the lack of protection. I've noticed that when our guy fields a punt he is surrounded by the other team and has no where to go and I think that also explains why we think Are dances aroun so much. He is looking for something when nothing is really there.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

no coach wants to use starters on special teams. some do out of necessity. no need to do it in this case

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

I was actually thinking Kelly would be well-suited for the position. He's not a starter yet either.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

I like the idea of having DT do some kick and/or punt returns. If he is not going to start, it is a way of getting him on the field, and he could be a playmaker in this role with his speed. I'd also like to see Dorsey get more chances in this role.

I love the Rock is unlikely to turn the ball over on kickoffs. But he is also unlikely to take it to the house. And we need more production from our punt returning than we got last year with ARE. DT and/or Dorsey may be fixes for these problems.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

remember that return a few years back, ladell betts, i think it was against the bucs? he tight roped the sideline and took it to the house. why did he stop returning kicks for us?

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

better yet, why was he returning kicks that game?

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

How would Thomas do on punt return

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

Seeing as how no team is ever gonna score on our D than I say we just put Rock back there for the one and only time the opposing team kicks off every game.


Honestly though, no sense in trying to fix what aint broken.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;580014]better yet, why was he returning kicks that game?[/QUOTE]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

he did well back there. it was '05 i'm thinking of:
24 returns 621 yards - avg 25.9, longest was 94T, 1 td, and 1 fumble

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;580020]How would Thomas do on punt return[/quote]

We have to make good use of him somehow. Kelly's starting opposite of Moss this year if he can stay healthy.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

You might see Thomas return some kicks this Friday. He's been practicing it. And Rock won't play on Friday (Rock might be out for a long while)

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=firstdown;579964]Maybe I'm missing something but how do you get that Dorsey is better returner than Rock? Our biggest problem is on punts and the lack of protection. I've noticed that when our guy fields a punt he is surrounded by the other team and has no where to go and I think that also explains why we think Are dances aroun so much. He is looking for something when nothing is really there.[/quote]

Dorsey is a [B]good return man[/B] (eventhough he looks better than Rock). But not a good running back.

Okay I will explain it better. If the coaching staff wanted to keep Marko Mitchell and Marcus Mason. Rock could be the odd man out. Because Devin Thomas and ARE can return punts. Someone said a started should return kicks/punts well ARE did. Saying that with Marko Mitchell onthe team. Also climbing up the depth chart. We would risk as much putting Devin back to return kicks. Even Moss returned on last year. This long love affair wit h rock is killing me. Thayt's the problem with our team. Its okay to love a player nad call him a life long redskins. But do you love him or your team more. I rather have someone that can produce and not have someone who is taking up a roster spot on special team and special teams still has looked like crap the last few years. He is not a good running back and he also can never return one past the 30. So dont pull out any stats unless there is some touchdowns on it. I dont think our team will fall apart if he is cut.....

Be real!!

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=Lotus;579997]I like the idea of having DT do some kick and/or punt returns. If he is not going to start, it is a way of getting him on the field, and he could be a playmaker in this role with his speed. I'd also like to see Dorsey get more chances in this role.

I love the Rock is unlikely to turn the ball over on kickoffs. But he is also unlikely to take it to the house. And we need more production from our punt returning than we got last year with ARE. DT and/or Dorsey may be fixes for these problems.[/quote]

Thanks Lotus. Its about Production not being a fan favorite. Rock is stable. but does that mean he shoudl stay. Jsut because we are comfortable. Ladt preseason game the punt unit looked like trash. If he was so valuable to ST. He would straighten that out if he is a leader of that unit. I am over the love affair with Rock. We need people who will produce and not just be average. Especially when it prevents you from having other people be on the team. Because we are holding on to a "average special teams player". I dont know what some peoples train of thoughts are. Ladell Betts & moss have returned a kick for a TD with the few attempts they have had the last couple of years. Rock none. Get over the love affair. Its about the whole team..

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=diehard;580032]We have to make good use of him somehow. Kelly's starting opposite of Moss this year if he can stay healthy.[/quote]


Yes and with Mitchell coming on. That makes Devin more available for ST. That's the point I am trying to make and that allows us to keep mason or another back that "can produce" as a RB. Instead of keeping Rock who is a average rb/returner...

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

Rock had a KO return for a TD in 2006, against the Cowboys I believe

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;580165]Rock had a KO return for a TD in 2006, against the Cowboys I believe[/quote]it was, it was a night game too, maybe mnf. i was waiting tables that night at champps. i had a table of 10-12 redskins fans, it was awesome. they tried to order two bottles of cristal when he took it to the house. i was like, homie, this is champps... and he shouted back "than your two most expensive bottles!!!" i'm pretty sure we lost that game but i made over $300 off that table alone. God bless redskins fans, amen

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

Asking a question;

Which is more important on Kickoff returns:

1) consistency - knowing you will nearly always start at the 20 yardline or better

or

2) Homerun potential.

On Punt returns, I think you have to go with Homerun potential, simply because, you never know where the starting point will be, so you always want someone who can take it all the way. Do you see Kickoffs the same way, or is it better to know you will always get it out of the shadow of your own endzone?

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;580165]Rock had a KO return for a TD in 2006, against the Cowboys I believe[/quote]

1 shining KO return for a TD. But you know what. Rock is all pro. All american. Pro bowl material. So lets keep him like the did the other year and keep our same running backs. So when one or two of them goes down we can bring someone in off the wire..like duckett or Shaun Alexander. Because KO returns are so much more important than a back up running back. So go back to that time. When Portis was hurt and Betts was too and we had tip toe burgular in the backfield. Where was Rock? Oh he was too busy returning kicks? So we brought in a bum to be our running back.

Do you get it now. If we have a running back. That can spell Portis or Betts we should take him. Devin can return kicks or share duties with. Moss, Betts, ARE, etc.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;580171]1 shining KO return for a TD. But you know what. Rock is all pro. All american. Pro bowl material. So lets keep him like the did the other year and keep our same running backs. So when one or two of them goes down we can bring someone in off the wire..like duckett or Shaun Alexander. Because KO returns are so much more important than a back up running back. So go back to that time. When Portis was hurt and Betts was too and we had tip toe burgular in the backfield. Where was Rock? Oh he was too busy returning kicks? So we brought in a bum to be our running back.

Do you get it now. If we have a running back. That can spell Portis or Betts we should take him. Devin can return kicks or share duties with. Moss, Betts, ARE, etc.[/quote]i don't understand what point you are trying to make, how was rock too busy returning kicks? you mean playing special teams? he plays a lot of special teams, sure, but he's not a radical rb. alexander didn't cramp his pants. but he didn't biff it either. i don't understand where all these guys who try out in the pre season go. why didn't we call on mason? or dork nordic for that matter?

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

You ever read a thread and just say huh?

Huh?

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

Mason was in Cincy where he got to play RB during the season but did not nothing.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=SmootSmack;580149]You might see Thomas return some kicks this Friday. He's been practicing it. And Rock won't play on Friday (Rock might be out for a long while)[/quote]

i just had what he has, and post surgery its a minimum 4 weeks down from stuff like football-related activities :/.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

You know what, at this point, you have to get something out of Thomas, so why not try it. Might be all you get.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

I like the VA Tech approach. Your primary job is special teams, you can play offense or defense later.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

Its not a rock bashing thread at all. It does make total sense. I will break it down. Rock is a solid player. But he is not that versatile. He has a decent punt return average and [I]returned one in 96[/I]. But last year when we needed someone to come in when Betts and Portis were injured. He didn't step up. We picked up tip toe burgular. Whether it is Mason or another RB. We need to find a third running back that has upside and can be there as an additional weapon. If we have say..5 WRs and Devin has blazing speed. Why not use Devin. If Devin doesn't get into a rhythm in these last 2 preseason games he might slip to the 3rd 4th or maybe even fifth WR spot (if Kelly continues to be solid and show his injury is a nonfactor and if Mitchell makes the squad). I think for the most part all other WRs have been solid as far as the top 5. If this is the case. Then he is perfect candidate for the returns. Rock as our third running back is a KR and that is his main duty on the team (special teams). Which doesn't do that well on coverage or on returns. But this same RB is not really a viable threat as a RB and doesn't have as much upside as Mason or Dorsey. Its basically a numbers game.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

I didn't even know Rock was hurt. This may play into the roster decisions also. Unless someone takes his place until he gets healthy...

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=dmvskinzfan08;580152]Dorsey is a [B]good return man[/B] (eventhough he looks better than Rock). But not a good running back.

[/quote]

Right now it doesn't look like we really care how well a 3rd back runs it, that's why we have Cartwrights our 3rd back and that's why we called in Alexander. I think that we care how well he returns kicks more than anything.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;580169]Asking a question;

Which is more important on Kickoff returns:

1) consistency - knowing you will nearly always start at the 20 yardline or better

or

2) Homerun potential.

On Punt returns, I think you have to go with Homerun potential, simply because, you never know where the starting point will be, so you always want someone who can take it all the way. Do you see Kickoffs the same way, or is it better to know you will always get it out of the shadow of your own endzone?[/quote]
Even Hester gets caught on the 5, 10, 15 every now and again... all of the great returners do. You give it to the guy that might break it unless you're getting to the 35-40 every time; 20-30 every time is good but Rock usually goes down on first impact and doesn't do well at avoiding impact. To me that speaks 1) for Rock's ability to get going in a line ASAP and 2) KR blocking; now if only our punt return unit could block like that.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=Mattyk72;580188]You ever read a thread and just say huh?

Huh?[/quote]
If so I usually try my hand at pretentiousness ;)

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=PennSkinsFan;580217]You know what, at this point, you have to get something out of Thomas, so why not try it. Might be all you get.[/quote]

Make him a RB on a few plays...especially if Rock is out for the next several weeks. Not really kidding here. Thomas' athleticism is pretty special, he just hasn't become a legit WR yet. But with the ball in his hands he's still dangerous...so find a way to get him a few touches anyway.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

I agree with Goat, Thomas only really looked competent running the reverse for his touchdown last year, maybe we can get him more plays like that, screens, etc (where he won't have to run a route or separate from a defender which seems to be his problem.) Hopefully he catches on at receiver, but he needs more touches any way he can get them without offensive pass interference being called against him lol

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

[quote=gibbsisgod;579929]Yeah, Cartwright plays on every part of ST except for the FG team. He plays them well too.[/quote]

So that's.....KR, Kick offs, and are you adding punting cause he does not PR? I think we could get more out of Dorsey at this point maybe KR,PR, and RB. but don't forget we do have Thomas, Hall, Moss, Betts actually did KR/PR in the past also and did it very well.

Re: Devin Thomas kick returns??
 

The only way Rock is cut is if some of the backup RB's can prove they can pass block and catch too.

I really don't think a one dimensional home run hitting runner is enough to consider cutting a "rock" solid special teamer.

Remember last year?
Mason couldn't pass block, and screwed up his Special teams attempts....and I don't remember how he did catching passes.

The problem with some of these little RBs is this...they are way too small to effectively pick up a delayed blitz.
As much as I like the little guys...in order to get playing time, they need to protect the passer first and foremost