PATIENCE!!!! Try to be a FAN!! History Lesson
 

There is an amazing amount of frustration coming out on this site. Guys, you need to be patient!!! But more that that you need to be SUPPORTIVE!!!! I sure don't see much of that around here. I see a LOT of FAIR-WEATHER fans that don't understand the game.

Here's a little history lesson for you guys that are having a hissy-fit:

Gibbs came to Washington in 1981. He started off by losing his first 5 games. Of those 5 games, the offense was terrible - scored 17 or LESS 4 out of the first 5 games. That year, the team ended up 8-8. The last two games were wins, and the team scored 30 and 38 points in them.

In 1982, the Redskins won the Super bowl. And that was the first of 4 Super Bowl trips for Joe Gibbs' teams. Missing the playoffs was rare.

To you guys that want Spurrier back, I sure wish there was an NFL owner dumb enough to hire him as head coach next year. Then you could go root for THAT team. It was not just the W-L record. He was completely over his head in the NFL and knew it.

If the team has not turned it around with a winning record by this time NEXT year, then come back and moan/groan, and maybe you will find some reasonable people who will listen to you. But you won't now.

If you want a MORE RECENT history lesson, look at New England's start under Belichick. He started 5-11 in 2000, averaging 17 points a game. Look what he has done since. The fans that were calling for HIS head must feel REAL bright. There are MANY more examples just like this. The top coaches turn a team around by the second season - not all go the the SB that fast (as Gibbs & Belichick did), but the team will definitely be turned around if the coach is among the elite. Joe Gibbs is an elite coach.

Great post Hogskin!
I posted on another thread that if people are frustrated and sudenly worried, their expectations for the early part of this season are a little too high. Gibbs inherited an underachieving, mistake prone, losing team. Did they think Gibbs would just walk in, snap his fingers and we would be a super bowl team? It takes a several games to iron out the kinks.
I expected the Redskins to be under .500 in the first half of the season. As you already stated, Gibbs started 0-5 in his first season with us. His system takes a little while to master.
I know many fans are frustrated, but maybe you just need to reevaluate your early season expectations and be a little more realistic.
It may not show up in the win-loss column, but this team is playing a much more sounder brand of football. The defense is 100% better, the offense is just taking longer. The offense will come around.

Great post Hogskin.

I know people don't want to hear it, but we have to stay patient and let things play out.

I know I'm here for the long haul, not sure about alot of people here though. When things turn around I sure as hell don't want to see these same people trying to climb on to the bandwagon.

I agree completely with the two prior postings. Gibbs will turn this thing around and get this team on track, but its not going to happen overnight and it may not happen this season. Still, this is the team we're going to have for the next three years or so, so just sit back and try to enjoy them through their growing pains and know that we'll be killing teams before too long.

[QUOTE=Hogskin]There is an amazing amount of frustration coming out on this site. Guys, you need to be patient!!! But more that that you need to be SUPPORTIVE!!!! I sure don't see much of that around here. I see a LOT of FAIR-WEATHER fans that don't understand the game.

Here's a little history lesson for you guys that are having a hissy-fit:

Gibbs came to Washington in 1981. He started off by losing his first 5 games. Of those 5 games, the offense was terrible - scored 17 or LESS 4 out of the first 5 games. That year, the team ended up 8-8. The last two games were wins, and the team scored 30 and 38 points in them.

In 1982, the Redskins won the Super bowl. And that was the first of 4 Super Bowl trips for Joe Gibbs' teams. Missing the playoffs was rare.

To you guys that want Spurrier back, I sure wish there was an NFL owner dumb enough to hire him as head coach next year. Then you could go root for THAT team. It was not just the W-L record. He was completely over his head in the NFL and knew it.

If the team has not turned it around with a winning record by this time NEXT year, then come back and moan/groan, and maybe you will find some reasonable people who will listen to you. But you won't now.

If you want a MORE RECENT history lesson, look at New England's start under Belichick. He started 5-11 in 2000, averaging 17 points a game. Look what he has done since. The fans that were calling for HIS head must feel REAL bright. There are MANY more examples just like this. The top coaches turn a team around by the second season - not all go the the SB that fast (as Gibbs & Belichick did), but the team will definitely be turned around if the coach is among the elite. Joe Gibbs is an elite coach.[/QUOTE]

Great post hogskin. I agree with everything you said.

And I want to know is who the hell said that we should bring back Spurrier?

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]I know I'm here for the long haul, not sure about alot of people here though. When things turn around I sure as hell don't want to see these same people trying to climb on to the bandwagon.[/QUOTE]


Me too. I know this is going to take some time. I remember saying before that the offense won't start to click until week 5 or 6. It's week 4 and all of a sudden the Portis trade was a bad decision, Brunell sucks, and Coles is overpaid. Once we get this turned around I would like to see how many hop back on the bandwagon.

I don't think bringing expectations down will solve anything from the fans or the players.
Also the coaching is doing fine. It's penalties and fumbles that have lost these games ( Plus Two Pass Interferance calls).

I am just from camp scrub but I say lets keep these expectations High.

[QUOTE=wbecker999]I don't think bringing expectations down will solve anything from the fans or the players.
Also the coaching is doing fine. It's penalties and fumbles that have lost these games ( Plus Two Pass Interferance calls).

I am just from camp scrub but I say lets keep these expectations High.[/QUOTE]

Nothing wrong with having high expectations. Just don't go and give up on the team when they don't meet those expectations. That's all Hogskin is trying to say.

Whenever the name Gibbs is mentioned. Automatically expectations soar to the roof. Right now it's up to the players to live up to those expectations. Hopefully they'll come around sometime soon.

And if no one has welcomed you yet. Welcome to the board wbecker999.

History is best qualified to reward your research and Hogskin you've been rewarded. This is a great point to understand. If you look throughout the NFL there are coaches who have been with the same team for several years and still are 0-4. This is to be expected for a new team, new coach and new system. The difference right now between the Skins and the Giants is the running game. Tiki has taken the team's offense on his shoulders and carried the team. Come on Portis. Step up to the plate.

Great Thread Hogskin
 

I agree completely with everything stated and it's is good to know that I'm not alone. I didn't have the highest expectations heading into the season, but I sure had alot of hope. The toughest part about the three losses is not that I expected them to destroy the opposition, but that we should have. It is so obvious to me that we were the better team in the last three weeks. But, I am along for the long haul as are all of you.

Gigantic Accolades Hogskins.. We all had high hopes for the return of Gibbs, many hopes were unfounded (13-3 predictions for example) but we do forget that we have new starters at 5 offensive positions (Brunell, Portis, Brown, Cooley/Rasby and Dockery) as well as new players at #3 WR, another key position. Offensively there just needs to be better execution.

Defensively I don't have any complaints.. Smoot has been beat a little bit this year, but Bryant and Morgan both made excellent plays on the ball.. Taylor has made a couple mistakes (Galloway almost beat him week one, the HB pass last week, one big catch by A. Davis yesterday) that he will learn from. Washington admitted he blew the assignment on the Shea TD pass yesterday so that's just execution again.

Bottom line, players need to make plays. Gibbs will make the adjustments to improve the game calling, but as Hogskin articulated, be patient 3 losses by 6, 3 and 4 points seem to indicate we aren't that far off..

[QUOTE=Hogskin]There is an amazing amount of frustration coming out on this site. Guys, you need to be patient!!! But more that that you need to be SUPPORTIVE!!!! I sure don't see much of that around here. I see a LOT of FAIR-WEATHER fans that don't understand the game.

Here's a little history lesson for you guys that are having a hissy-fit:

Gibbs came to Washington in 1981. He started off by losing his first 5 games. Of those 5 games, the offense was terrible - scored 17 or LESS 4 out of the first 5 games. That year, the team ended up 8-8. The last two games were wins, and the team scored 30 and 38 points in them.

In 1982, the Redskins won the Super bowl. And that was the first of 4 Super Bowl trips for Joe Gibbs' teams. Missing the playoffs was rare.

To you guys that want Spurrier back, I sure wish there was an NFL owner dumb enough to hire him as head coach next year. Then you could go root for THAT team. It was not just the W-L record. He was completely over his head in the NFL and knew it.

If the team has not turned it around with a winning record by this time NEXT year, then come back and moan/groan, and maybe you will find some reasonable people who will listen to you. But you won't now.

If you want a MORE RECENT history lesson, look at New England's start under Belichick. He started 5-11 in 2000, averaging 17 points a game. Look what he has done since. The fans that were calling for HIS head must feel REAL bright. There are MANY more examples just like this. The top coaches turn a team around by the second season - not all go the the SB that fast (as Gibbs & Belichick did), but the team will definitely be turned around if the coach is among the elite. Joe Gibbs is an elite coach.[/QUOTE]


Valid point and all, but.... year after year i hear be patient, we'll get this thing turned around.... yadda yadda yadda until we win on a regular basis or at least beat the friggin' cowboys once or twice, i feel we all reserve the right to bitch and moan till our hearts content. That is what "fans" do. If you aren't winning and haven't won in a long time and a hall of fame coach come's back out of retirement to lead us to the promiseland and we lose 3 in a row in heartbreaking fashion to start the season off, it's hard to subside your frustration! really.

having that said, I will from this day foward try to have a more patient and have a more positive outlook on things......

Good stuff, Hogskin. I completely agree about the time frame for this team getting good. Patience is hard, especially when we lose to our arch rivals in humiliating ways. But it's the right move here.

WE WILL BE GREAT AGAIN.

I agree, hogskin. Thats a very good and well thought out post. I defintley understand why people post how they do, right after a loss. Obviously everyone is p*ssed off and frustrated, and people just right whatever to help vent and take out their frustrations without thinking it through. I'm 100% guilty of it as well, I do it all the time. I proboly wrote 30 posts yesterday that I take back. Good post though, hopefully this week we can end this streak with a W.

[QUOTE=Redskins_P]Great post hogskin. I agree with everything you said.

And I want to know is who the hell said that we should bring back Spurrier?[/QUOTE]

haha...(could it be daseal) J/K

[QUOTE=d151b]Valid point and all, but.... year after year i hear be patient, we'll get this thing turned around.... yadda yadda yadda until we win on a regular basis or at least beat the friggin' cowboys once or twice, i feel we all reserve the right to bitch and moan till our hearts content. That is what "fans" do. If you aren't winning and haven't won in a long time and a hall of fame coach come's back out of retirement to lead us to the promiseland and we lose 3 in a row in heartbreaking fashion to start the season off, it's hard to subside your frustration! really.

having that said, I will from this day foward try to have a more patient and have a more positive outlook on things......[/QUOTE]

Well, part of the problem is that there WAS no patience in the previous years. Turnover in coaches and players year after year. The other part of the problem was that at least a couple of the previous coaching staffs were doing a horrible job, and it was obvious to everyone around them. And the team was not improving at the END of the season (or the end of the second season in one case). I agree it is frustrating as hell. I had a horrible day yesterday.

And Gmanc, I know exactly what you mean. As much as I hate the Cowboys, I was even more upset and frustrated after this game because at least we DID win the Cowboy game, and the refs stole it. We just lost this one - and to a team we should drub. But I stayed off the site a while, and a few hours later I was able to put it all in perspective. (Of course, if this were 20 years ago, I would also be repairing a couple items that had accidentally bumped a wall during the game... LOL - that is one of the ONLY good things about aging)

You know what I have been reading about how everyone is frustrated and in one post somebody stated something along the lines that it is not just this" F-ing year but the last 12 F-ing years". I have been a Redskin fan as far back as i can remember. I am the only one in my family, and actually have several Dallas fans on my wifes side of the family. It is hard to sit and watch the Redskins loose a game, it is real hard so I understand the frustration. But you know what I will be doing this week and this sunday night, the same thing I have done the last 12 years (and all the years i have been a redskin fan) and that is root for the REDSKINS. I am a redskins fan win or lose I love this team, and if there is one thing i could say to Gibbs and the rest of the team is "I got there back" win or lose I am there, upset, mad, frustrated whatever. I am and will always be a Redskin fan threw thick and thin, and when this does get turned around I will be there to loving every minute of it.

A true Redskin fan wont quite, wont cry, wont whine, and will be there for the lose as much if not more than they would be there for the victory.

:httr:

I totally disagree with this thread. We have high expecatations because of the so called hype about the players and coaches. They get paid very well last time I checked. Therefore losing is unacceptable.

I agree with the post Hogskin. The frustration I have had is directed at teh players not Gibbs or the coaching staff. I think the Redskins would be 3-1 if thier players could hold onto the ball. There is nothing the coaches can do about fumbles. I am 100% behind coach Gibbs.

[QUOTE=CRT3]I totally disagree with this thread. We have high expecatations because of the so called hype about the players and coaches. They get paid very well last time I checked. Therefore losing is unacceptable.[/QUOTE]

So is your argument that the Redskins shouldn't lose because they get paid well?

We need a proven offensive coordinator.

How about Jow Gibbs?

[QUOTE=BossHog]We need a proven offensive coordinator.[/QUOTE]

So, you're saying that Joe Bugel, Don Breaux, and Rennie Simmons aren't proven? How many more SB rings do they need in order for you to call them "proven"?

Boss Hog probably wants some on proven like Steve Spurrier. :)
Just kidding man.
Gibbs is the OC. period

[QUOTE=CRT3]I totally disagree with this thread. We have high expecatations because of the so called hype about the players and coaches. They get paid very well last time I checked. Therefore losing is unacceptable.[/QUOTE]

I agree losing is unacceptable but if you cant be a Redskin fan after a loss then you sure as heck dont deserve to be one when they win.

I'm not losing faith in Gibbs. But it would be a whole lot easier to be patient if we hadn't already lived through 10 bad years with this team. I know, I know, Gibbs is not to blame for our past 10 years, but you have to understand that we are just sick and tired of mediocrity and that's what I see on the offensive side of the ball and with the special teams too. The "D" is doing just fine, but they can't win it on their own.

Also, there's nothing wrong with criticism, when it's deserved. Doesn't mean we're bailing on the Skins. I, for one, would never do that. But when you see poor offensive play week after week, I think some healthy anger is called for. Particularly with some of the high-priced talent that we supposedly have.

Simple - judge this team on the 16 game record. You can't blame Joe for the last 12 years, likewise you can't base his performance on those years. The press hyped JG up, not JG. He remained cool calm and measured. He said before the season it will take time to turnaround and it will.

Once the O gets in gear and the ST's iron out the kinks, then see what happeens.

[QUOTE=CRT3]I totally disagree with this thread. We have high expecatations because of the so called hype about the players and coaches. They get paid very well last time I checked. Therefore losing is unacceptable.[/QUOTE]
Sounds like Chris Berman has been wrong all this time. They DON'T need to play the games. Just add up the payroles and dole out the prizes. Richest owner wins.

Thanks to many of you that made complimentary posts. It is much appreciated.

Wait a second, is my patriotism being questioned for questioning certain moves (i.e. Brunell starting)?

I have been a Redskins fan for as long as I can remember. I have been there for them for the past 12 years while we have been in the dumps. I wear my 'Skins jersey in Packer country each weekend at a bar even though I get crap. I have gotten into a fist fight over the 'Skins and Eagles rivalry.

So I hope that no one is questioning my 'Skins fan credentials. Thems fightin' words.

If I'm not a Skins fan because I don't like Brunell, then no one on this board is a Skins fan. I have heard each and every single one of the "regulars" on this site attack someone on the 'Skins squad....from guys riding the bench all the way up to the Head Coach.

I have consistently said that the 'Skins will fare very well under Gibbs. I have consistently said that Gibbs will take us to the playoffs. I have also said that we're an .500 or .560 team. I have also said that I don't like Brunell. Am I not a 'Skins fan because of that?

[QUOTE=Ramseyfan]Wait a second, is my patriotism being questioned for questioning certain moves (i.e. Brunell starting)?[/QUOTE]
Fan, are you sure that was in THIS thread???? I went through it again from the top and can not find the post you seem to be referring to.

I don't think criticising players on your team makes you a fairweather fan. Fair weather fans are people who lose interest or switch allegence when the going gets rough. I don't think blasting Portis or Coles for their poor play is being fairweather as long as you still support the team the next Sunday win or lose. Portis has been horrible. Why does it make you a fairweather fan for stating that? I still hold out hope that he will turn it around, but right now he is a detrament to the team. I do think we need patience with Gibbs since he has earned that and then some in my book, but a frustrated fan does not equal a fairweather fan. I pretty much think that the last 12 years have weeded out all of those...

[QUOTE=Hogskin]Fan, are you sure that was in THIS thread???? I went through it again from the top and can not find the post you seem to be referring to.[/QUOTE]

I didn't mean patriotism in the literal sense of the word, I meant patriotism as in supporting Redskin country.

Must be PATIENCE!!!!!!

[QUOTE=celts32]I don't think criticising players on your team makes you a fairweather fan. Fair weather fans are people who lose interest or switch allegence when the going gets rough. I don't think blasting Portis or Coles for their poor play is being fairweather as long as you still support the team the next Sunday win or lose. Portis has been horrible. Why does it make you a fairweather fan for stating that? I still hold out hope that he will turn it around, but right now he is a detrament to the team. I do think we need patience with Gibbs since he has earned that and then some in my book, but a frustrated fan does not equal a fairweather fan. I pretty much think that the last 12 years have weeded out all of those...[/QUOTE]

Pffewww, thanks for agreeing Celts.

You will never, ever, ever find me rooting for anyone but the Redskins. You will never find me booing the Skins in a game, no matter what they do. You will never find me losing interest in the Skins, no matter how bad their record is (like 5-11 last season).

But, you will find me critiquing certain players if I feel it is justified. That doesn't mean I've stopped loving the Skins, it just means I think something isn't right. That's the fun of this site - talking about what we like/dislike. This site would be incredibly boring if we were forbidden from discussing possible alternatives to how things are being done. I'm not Joe Gibbs nor will I ever come within 1 billion miles of being anywhere near as smart as him, but that shouldn't mean I can't question certain moves.

:oink: [QUOTE=cocoajoey]Must be PATIENCE!!!!!![/QUOTE]




Don't let us down REDSKINS!!!
GIBBS WILL GET RIGHT!!!!!

HAIL TO THE REDSKINS FIGHT FOR OLD DC!!!!

Having been a fan since I was about 5 years old, I can tell ya that the last twelve years have been rough and mediocore at best. However, by myself seeing what Gibbs accomplished throughout the glory years, I can tell ya that he knows what to do to get this team back into good standings. Sure we have high expectations -- what true fan doesn't have high expectations for their team? However, a solid football team is not a team that changes players and coaching staff year after year....uh example...the Cardinals *cough cough*. This Redskins team hasn't been together for very long. I for one will cheer them on and brag about them even if they don't win another game this season. I will also continue to brag about Gibbs as well too! Why? Because I know what Gibbs can do with a football team and he is going to find out who has come to play and who has come for the pay!

I have to say this about the bandwagon this post itself has stirred...

Let's not blast Redskin fans for being frustrated... last I knew, fans didn't make decisions or play the games... so naturally, when you want something so bad (like beating Dallas on our HOME FIELD) and have no control over the outcome... of course we'll feel frustrated and disappointed and WILL lash out at players/coaches doing things that SHOULDN'T be acceptable...

With all that said... I have reasons for my own personal frustration...

A) No one tell me that salaries don't win games, because obviously I realize that... BUT... we have BY FAR the highest payroll of ALL 32 teams in the NFL, AND the highest paid coaching staff.

B) OUR SCHEDULE. We opened with Tampa Bay (0-4 this year) , the G-Women (4-12 last year), the Cowgirls (I mean, come on? At home? Testaverde? Eddie George?), and the Doo-Doo Browns (5-11 last year and the friggin Giants had a field day offensively against them). I mean, these are teams we SHOULD beat.

C) The way we lose. All 3 losses could very EASILY be wins. Turnovers, bad clock management, penalties, terrible calls, dropped passes...

the last thing I will say is this... I LOVE Joe Gibbs and EVERYTHING he stands for... BUT, I just want the Spurrier bashing to be swayed by the past few games. Trust me, I am no big fan of his... but Think about it.. If he would have come back this year, and every thing happened the SAME WAY the past 3 games with HIM on the sidelines, what would everyone be saying?? I will NEVER bash Gibbs... he WILL bring us back to glory, but hey... obviously, it aint easy bein' green, or winning in the NFL without players EXECUTING the plays you call...

I'm in total agreement with this thread. Emotions tend to get the better of some people after a loss- after consecutive losses, some become really irrational.

We need to remember that this is the fourth head coach in five years- that also means fourth offensive/defensive scheme in five years. Yes we are seeing the same mistakes that were made in the past- but we need to remember that when you're trying to memorize a new playbook, that also means learning more verbiage (in addition to the individual responsibility during a play). C'mon guys- Gibbs and Brunell don't sit there thinking of ways to push the play clock to zero before calling a time out... it's the first month of the regular season and it's obvious everyone is still not in sync with the communication. New plays and bad communication may elicit stupid penalties and loss of fundamentals (like holding on to the ball). Once everyone becomes comfortable with knowing where they are suppose to go, once the sideline transmits the plays to the QB without a hitch- then the Skins will be able to go out there and play football. It's a lot easier to maintain fundamentals when the plays are second nature and you don't have to worry about forgetting where you line up.

No excuses, but there is a rationale for why the offense is struggling. Let's not forget that the D is more than holding our their own. With most football teams coming together for the first time, the defense usually excels faster than the offense at the beginning of the season. I believe we'll see the offense come into their own sooner rather than later.

As everyone knows I'm a Spurrier fan and I feel that had he left his coaching staff behind and gotten proven NFL guys to give him a hand, we would have won WITH his system. That being said, I never said that "I want Spurrier back" as was joked earlier in the thread. I don't think he was given a fair shot (I feel a coach needs 3-4 years to get his system somewhat in place, his personel, etc.) He may have lost the players already though, I'm not sure if he could have gotten them back.

I may have even been upset that he got fired (don't say he quit, he was run out) if it was for anyone other than Gibbs. If he gets run out of town for someone like Fassel or Ray Rhodes I would have been upset. Gibbs is a legend for DC football fans. He's a proven coach, a driven man, and simply a winner. I was curious what he could bring to the table in DC. I heard the name "offensive guru" thrown around with all the movement and formations able to score at his own will.

Thus far, I have been completely and utterly disappointed in his coaching. His playcalling is questionable (3 runs up the middle on the 1? Come on!) Using Portis like Jerome Bettis, stupid challenges, not getting the play to Brunell in time, etc.) Maybe I've been watching the wrong team, but I've seen a team that gets ahead by a touchdown and then tries to run the clock out in the first quarter. Not in today's NFL. See Indy and Tampa bay for a reminder of how fast NFL teams can score. Granted no team scores like Indy, but TB was the #1 defense at that point, and I think broke their back for the entire season. I've also seen little to no motion, and quite frankly, bad plays called for a back like Portis. I think Joe Gibbs should be treated like any other coach, I know he's had success in Washington, but what if he can't repeat? What if he leads us to 3-4 straight losing seasons? I'm not saying it's going to happen, but what then hypothetically? He needs to take the same blame any other coach would in this situation, stop letting his old glory days blind you.

That being said, the pressure surely isn't off the players. Portis has been a fumble machine (in my opinion, partially due to playcalling), Coles has been fairly unreliable, a total opposite of last year, Gardner has been himself - highlighted in the Giants game. Brunell and Ramsey have combined for a dud of a QB combo, though I'd like to see Ramsey get some snaps with the first unit and a chance to play. Our sole bright spot has been our incrediable defense Greg Williams has put together. He's the only coach that has lived up to expectations thus far.

That being said I feel hurt that those of us who actually question the lord and creator, Joe Gibbs are seen as "fairweather." That's like saying I hate the United States for criticizing George Bush. I will be sitting in front of my TV cheering my ass off come next week. I have a real emotional investment in the skins and my mood for the following week is directly proportional to the Redskins win. I want nothing more than to see Joe Gibbs and the retirement home bandits win a Super Bowl again. I know it will take TIME, but when you're losing to a team that just lost what their new offense is built around and lose to two other teams that were easily winnable, questions need to be asked.

I don't think you should blindly follow Gibbs, or anyone or anything for that matter. He's done well before, but many coaches have failed one place and thrived in others (Bill Bellicheck anyone?) He's in the same town, with a much different team. We have an abundance of talent, I'm sure someone can 'coach em' up' well enough to beat the Browns.