Its Gotta Be..
 

Guys, i think i have it figured out. i hate to say it, but its the WRs. our guys aren't quick enough, they aren't getting open. we always knew Ramsey held the ball too long, we thought it was just his thing, but is that a trait associated with Brunell?

its just true guys. everytime we DO complete a pass, the DB is draped all over our guys. whens the last time we hit a receiver in stride? whats the biggest separation we ever got this season or end of last?

Gardner was never a speed guy, and is supposed to be getting it in the middle and dropping some because of it. but Coles is hurt and he's playing like it. he's been dropping passes cuz he's battling it out with DBs, when before he'd be out in the free and clear.

its all chain reaction from there. our guys are easy to cover. so they stack against the run, teams blitz, the Oline cant hold forever, and we get 1-3.

i love Coles but he just isn't even close to 100%. at this point his toughness and willingness to play hurt is hurting us. how many wake up calls do we need??

we need to start Jacobs. we need our fastest guy out there. its easy to catch passes when the cornerback is two steps behind you. and i hate to say it, but maybe even try Thrash instead of Gardner. say whatever you want about him, but he doesnt drop balls. the entire NFL knows Gardner and how to stop him. a shakeup at WR could be all we need to open up the running game and getting everything clicking. that and more rollout plays, cuz our guys just take too LONG.

Coles looked fine to me and he was open quite a bit yesterday.

Besides, getting open isn't about being fast or quick, it's about understanding the offense and having a good rapport with the QB. That's the main problem right now. Guys are thinking too much and not executing. If speed was the answer we could throw a bunch of Cliff Russells out there.

Shaking up the lineup isn't going to accomplish anything except add to the confusion. These guys need all the reps they can get together, they need to figure this thing out [u]together[/u].

How can a team get any continuity going with constant changes in the lineup like so many of you are suggesting?

To steal a line from one of the best sports movies ever, "My team is on the floor". That's how we have to look at things.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Coles looked fine to me and he was open quite a bit yesterday.

Besides, getting open isn't about being fast or quick, it's about understanding the offense and having a good rapport with the QB. That's the main problem right now. Guys are thinking too much and not executing. If speed was the answer we could throw a bunch of Cliff Russells out there.

Shaking up the lineup isn't going to accomplish anything except add to the confusion. These guys need all the reps they can get together, they need to figure this thing out [u]together[/u].

How can a team get any continuity going with constant changes in the lineup like so many of you are suggesting?

To steal a line from one of the best sports movies ever, "My team is on the floor". That's how we have to look at things.[/QUOTE]

Excellent. And thank God, Gibbs knows that.

not just track speed, but quickness. shedding the bump at the line, turning the corner around, making him commit. these are the exact lateral moves that Coles says hurts the most, and the ones Gardner never really had. Coles was open a couple times over the middle, not really what he's best at, and the results are pretty obvious. drops, hard knocks and fumbles.

every time we go for a pass, its like we pray the QB wont get sacked, and the rarest thing is to see them with a quick release. yeah, its the guys not executing their routes well enough and shaking defenders, but i think that requires quickness they've been lacking. Coles had been open enough to get the ball thrown to him, but when was it ever in stride? our YAC must be the lowest in the league.

The same people who were thinking we would be 12-4 and make the playoffs this year, are now assuming losses. Basically, the truth is that in most cases, successful teams are not built overnight. At the same time, I don't think you can assume just because we haven't played well enough to win the past three weeks, automatically means we are going to lose the next two. In the NFL these days, its usually what you don't expect to happen, which ends up happening.

Brunell said that this is the best group of WRs he's ever been around. I don't think it's the WRs. I think its a culmination of offensive players thinking that they don't have to give 100% because someone else is there to pick up the slack. They're just not giving 100% right now, but I have no doubt that its coming - soon.

[QUOTE=cpayne5]Brunell said that this is the best group of WRs he's ever been around. I don't think it's the WRs. I think its a culmination of offensive players thinking that they don't have to give 100% because someone else is there to pick up the slack. They're just not giving 100% right now, but I have no doubt that its coming - soon.[/QUOTE]

who do you see not giving it their all? don't say Portis, the reason he's fumbling is cuz he's giving 120% against 8 men. cant even say the WRs cuz Coles is out there putting dislocated fingers back in w/o saying anything to anybody. can't say Brunell cuz its literally his ass on the line running for his life. and you can't even say its the OLine, cuz they are holding, they just cant hold FOREVER which it takes for our guys to get OPEN.

our speed guy is hurt so we have no vertical threat. Gardner has physical gifts, but only limited talent. what else would make our QBs, and it seems like ONLY the Skins's QBs take so damn LONG??? watch any other NFL game and compare.

I think it's all about guys getting on the same page. QB's, WR's, RB's and O-line. It's everyone. Not just the WR's and QB's.

I think its a mixture of strategy and poor offensive line play. When you block with 8, you only have 2 receivers amidst a multitude of DBs and they have no shot. Blocking with 8 during a blitz is fine, but then you gotta make 'em pay - Brunell does this sometimes (e.g., on his 4th down completion to Coles yesterday), but not consistently enough. Our 7-8 blockers sometimes had problems against the front 4 of Cleveland, and they didn't even blitz much - that's a waste of manpower.

The O-line didn't give up any sacks, but they're not moving the opposing D-line enough to create holes for Portis or passing lanes for Brunell. Portis needs to pick up his game...he was looking dazed sitting on the sidelines at one point - he will have to be key in the Bmore game if we expect to win.

I've thrown in the towel this season as far as playoff expectations are concerned. I hope they use the season to get the offense more smooth, turnover free, and figure out the right QB to run the offense. Brunell was ok yesterday, and can't be held responsible for our TOs, but we need him to be better than just ok. The defense will be fine.

IMHO, the key is to keep the team intact for next year....I do believe we will see things start to turn positive in the second half of the season. Still, I shudder to think what will happen when we play in Philly & Dallas.

I think Coach Gibbs wants to get the WRs on the same page and understand their role on this team. I felt that Coles did not have a blow out seasn last year due to his lack of separation from the secondary. Coles has been playing with an injured toe and could have contributed to his lack of speed. McCants is and intricate part of this offense and deserves to get a chance. Imagine how he must have felt when Thrash was named #3 WR after McCants was resigned to contract extension?

there's a formula to beating the Skins. stack and blitz. rinse, repeat. thats why we keep losing the same way. this only happens because no one respects our air game. and they don't because of bad accuracy from our hurried QBs, and our WRs not getting open. can't be more obvious to me.

quick solution: rollouts, and ACCURATE dumpoffs and screens like Garcia did to our blitzing defense to great effect.

right answer: have your receivers be able to shake coverage and be respected enough to doubleteam or at very least play the safeties back and (gasp) play cover instead or blitz/run stop.

McCants doesn't deserve anything, he needs to earn his playing time and he obviously hasn't done that yet. He was active for the first time this year so that's a good sign.

Alot of people were second guessing why Taylor wasn't starting from week one, and some said he deserved to be in there. I think it's obvious who was right about that one now. I trust this staff and I trust they'll play who [i]should[/i] be playing. McCants isn't the answer to our offensive woes.

I agree. The Screen is is a high percentage play. The draw play and a chance for Ladell Betts to get 10 carries isn't a bad idea. Where the hell is Rock Cartwright?

Coles USED to be that guy secondaries feared. but his massive heart can't overcome some physical limitations like his loss of cutting ability this year and last. just as Portis's heart can't replace about 30lbs to his frame.

i think Coles needs to soul-search and consider going on IR and getting that surgery. he's just NOT the same player. but he's still young so he should do this now.

there's no reason we shouldnt be exploring McCants and Jacobs for at least some whole drives at this point. give them a chance to earn it. McCants to me has proven his way around the redzone, and hasnt dropped clutch TD passes. considering our problems in the red zone this year, i think that definitely earns him a shot.

[QUOTE=illdefined]who do you see not giving it their all? don't say Portis, the reason he's fumbling is cuz he's giving 120% against 8 men. cant even say the WRs cuz Coles is out there putting dislocated fingers back in w/o saying anything to anybody. can't say Brunell cuz its literally his ass on the line running for his life. and you can't even say its the OLine, cuz they are holding, they just cant hold FOREVER which it takes for our guys to get OPEN.[/QUOTE]

I'm saying their mind is not 100% in the game. If it was, they wouldn't fumble. I like both Portis and Coles, you won't find me saying many negative things about them on this site, but their fumbles are a direct result of mental lapses.

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]McCants doesn't deserve anything, he needs to earn his playing time and he obviously hasn't done that yet. He was active for the first time this year so that's a good sign.

Alot of people were second guessing why Taylor wasn't starting from week one, and some said he deserved to be in there. I think it's obvious who was right about that one now. I trust this staff and I trust they'll play who [i]should[/i] be playing. McCants isn't the answer to our offensive woes.[/QUOTE]

McCants deserves more playing time than Jacobs and Thrash. Thrash should be handling more punt returns. When your'e not even on the active list for the first three games after leading with 6 TD's last year is a serious problem. He looked damn good in preseason. If fact, he was the only WR to take the ball the distance after catching it. Something we still haven't seen from our receivers yet.

[QUOTE=illdefined]there's a formula to beating the Skins. stack and blitz. rinse, repeat. thats why we keep losing the same way. this only happens because no one respects our air game. and they don't because of bad accuracy from our hurried QBs, and our WRs not getting open. can't be more obvious to me.

quick solution: rollouts, and ACCURATE dumpoffs and screens like Garcia did to our blitzing defense to great effect.

right answer: have your receivers be able to shake coverage and be respected enough to doubleteam or at very least play the safeties back and (gasp) play cover instead or blitz/run stop.[/QUOTE]

The problem with rollouts and throw to TEs is that they don't scare opposing teams enough...Brunell does this a lot - rolls out and throws to Cooley, Rasby & sometimes Portis for modest 7-12 yard gains - other teams have come to expect it now. You need the QB to throw the long bomb - Brunell is efficient, but hasn't yet showcased any big play ability since preseason. Ramsey isn't efficient, but has showcased plenty of big play ability. What a dilemma!

One strategy, admittedly laughably unorthodox, is for us to sub QBs when we're in the red zone - send in Ramsey, who is much better at finding a receiver in the endzone than Brunell is (except for his faux pas in the Giants game). Also, send in Mccants and Jacobs over Coles and Gardner when we're in the red zone. I think Taylor Jacobs is the best receiver we have on the team. Coming away with field goals when we're in the red zone is intolerable, especially against a team like Cleveland.

I think the WR play is tied up with the rest of the offense.

First, we have to get our formations and our shifts right. That's a big part of Gibbs offense, and we clearly are having trouble with it right now. The shifts disguise what we are doing, and put pkayers in favorable matchups.

Second, the QB and the WRs need to learn to READ together, especially on blitzes. I believe that Gibbs offense requires on the spot sycrhonized reads by the QB and the WRs. Right now, it's not flowing smoothly, and as a result Brunnel has to wait to throw until he's sure the WRs break properly. (I BELIEVE this is what's going on, but I could be wrong. Still, there are timing and reading elements in the offense that take time to develope.)

Third, Gibbs needs to open the playbook up and use more play action and other trickery. He's kept it simple to help folks learn the system, but that makes it simpler for the defenses too. Portis said that Bronw defenders knew the plays. That's due to simplifying. Gibbs runs a few basic plays out of multiple formations. Until we get the formations striaght, it's not so hard for the Ds we play.

Fourth, establishing the run. If we REALLY do this, you will see lots more WRs running open.

Fifth, good blitz pickups. That seeme to be coming, but it isn't perfect. SOmetime Brunnel is rolling out under pressure and that throws off plays.

Last, Brunnel has to hit WRs in stride. It looks to me like they are coming open quite a bit out of their first cuts, but the ball is late. That may be Brunnel learning the offense and getting used to the reads, and it may be his lack of arm strength. Let's pray it's the former and not the latter.

The WRs are good enough. Coles may be hurt, but he had over 100 yards. Gardner had over 100 last week. Thrash can play, Cooley can play, and I'd also like to see the other guys get involved. The talent is there.

[QUOTE=cpayne5]I'm saying their mind is not 100% in the game. If it was, they wouldn't fumble. I like both Portis and Coles, you won't find me saying many negative things about them on this site, but their fumbles are a direct result of mental lapses.[/QUOTE]

i think they're 100% focused and dedicated, but they're trying to overcome some big things with shaky results. Coles his toe, and Portis 8 man fronts bigger than him and running right into them w/o even a fullback.

[QUOTE=illdefined]Coles USED to be that guy secondaries feared. but his massive heart can't overcome some physical limitations like his loss of cutting ability this year and last. just as Portis's heart can't replace about 30lbs to his frame.

i think Coles needs to soul-search and consider going on IR and getting that surgery. he's just NOT the same player. but he's still young so he should do this now.

there's no reason we shouldnt be exploring McCants and Jacobs for at least some whole drives at this point. give them a chance to earn it. McCants to me has proven his way around the redzone, and hasnt dropped clutch TD passes. considering our problems in the red zone this year, i think that definitely earns him a shot.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand all the Coles 'hate'.. He's topped 100 yds 2 of the past 3 games.. I know he dropped some passes and fumbled yesterday but he is putting forth a strong effort.

[QUOTE=hurrykaine]The problem with rollouts and throw to TEs is that they don't scare opposing teams enough...Brunell does this a lot - rolls out and throws to Cooley, Rasby & sometimes Portis for modest 7-12 yard gains - other teams have come to expect it now. You need the QB to throw the long bomb - Brunell is efficient, but hasn't yet showcased any big play ability since preseason. Ramsey isn't efficient, but has showcased plenty of big play ability. What a dilemma![/QUOTE]

thats exactly why that cant be the final answer. its a stopgap solution.
what we need is some over the top threat like every Gibbs team has had in the past. we havent hit a big one in stride all season, being able to cover our WRs one on one like this leaves safeties and LBs to focus on Portis and Brunell, thats the formula and it sucks.

NO ONE hates Coles. i'm just saying he's not the same player he was on the Jets or at the beginning of his Skins tour. the separation hasnt been there, how can anyone deny this? Gardner is supposed to get the grabs in the middle and get hit, our Monk. Coles was supposed to be our TD threat. our G.Clark. i dont think i'm over-simplifying things, whenever Coles gets a pass he's got a guy right on him and its been costing us.

maybe a fullback/lead blocker to help portis and some 3/4 WR sets... why the WRs don't look open is because its 2 on 5 sometimes...

[QUOTE=That Guy]maybe a fullback/lead blocker to help portis and some 3/4 WR sets... why the WRs don't look open is because its 2 on 5 sometimes...[/QUOTE]

i don't think anyone is playing nickel on us. and if they are, those DBs arent doubleteaming our guys, at least one is coming in to blitz or coming up to stop anything underneath, Portis or Cooley.

Gibbs wont use a fullback, but i think a 3WR, 1TE and Portis is the right amount of air threat/protection IF at least one of those WRs is up against a mismatch or can get open consistently. we have depth at that position i dunno why we dont try em. especially at this point. plus we stretch the defense and give Portis what he feasts on, holes.

i'm NOT saying go Spurrier (shudder), but even max protect can stop the coverage sacks we're getting.

[QUOTE=illdefined]NO ONE hates Coles. i'm just saying he's not the same player he was on the Jets or at the beginning of his Skins tour. the separation hasnt been there, how can anyone deny this? Gardner is supposed to get the grabs in the middle and get hit, our Monk. Coles was supposed to be our TD threat. our G.Clark. i dont think i'm over-simplifying things, whenever Coles gets a pass he's got a guy right on him and its been costing us.[/QUOTE]

I think there are a lot of reasons for that.. First is the routes he is running.. He's not getting down the field routes as often, he's running comebacks and outs and he's open.. We need to send him on more go routes or post/corner routes to get the separation.

Second is the QB arm strength.. On the few go routes I've seen, he's been open but having to wait on the ball allows the DB to catch up. When was he most effective last year? When Ramsey was throwing it to him, up the field, leading him away from the defender. Brunell seems to lead him into the sideline or into the defender. Even the big 4th down catch he made yesterday was behind him.

Third and most importantly is the pass protection.. If the QB can't step up into the pocket and throw the ball or doesn't have time for the routes to develop down the field it doesn't matter how open he is, he can't get the ball..

No sacks yesterday. No INTs. That's a positive step. Next week is the Ravens. We better max protect, or someone is going to get hurt.

Gibbs used the max portect in the past and WRs got open then. It can work. We just need to execute better. And no killer penalites! The penaltes put you in long yardage. Then you can't run. But worse, you can't PLAY ACTION. That's where Gibbs used to get a lot of his big plays. Second and short, play action, WHAMO. All this requires an efficient running game to put you in short yardage to set it up. And we haven't done that. YET.

[QUOTE=illdefined]i'm NOT saying go Spurrier (shudder), but even max protect can stop the coverage sacks we're getting.[/QUOTE]

sorry meant CAN'T stop...too late to edit.

thing is, whenever Gibbs calls those Bunch formations there are 3WRs out there and we still can't hit a receiver open in stride. maybe it IS our QBs not being able to go down their progressions fast enough, but you'd think that of Ramsey, not Brunell. and you'd think it'd happen at least once by now, but it hasn't.

we've GOTTA get that secondary on their heels somehow, cuz Portis is getting yards but getting knocked around and dropping it. on 3rd downs, its Brunell getting knocked around.

[QUOTE=Paintrain]I think there are a lot of reasons for that.. First is the routes he is running.. He's not getting down the field routes as often, he's running comebacks and outs and he's open.. We need to send him on more go routes or post/corner routes to get the separation.

Second is the QB arm strength.. On the few go routes I've seen, he's been open but having to wait on the ball allows the DB to catch up. When was he most effective last year? When Ramsey was throwing it to him, up the field, leading him away from the defender. Brunell seems to lead him into the sideline or into the defender. Even the big 4th down catch he made yesterday was behind him.

Third and most importantly is the pass protection.. If the QB can't step up into the pocket and throw the ball or doesn't have time for the routes to develop down the field it doesn't matter how open he is, he can't get the ball..[/QUOTE]

definite truth to ALL these. i dunno why we aren't putting Coles in more track meets. he even says that straight ahead his toe doesn't bother him.

you're completely right about Brunell not leading them well enough, could very well be his arm strength.

seems like our OLine has been doing well in their one on one matchups, its just that teams are blitzing, so its never one on one! and our safety valve plays aren't crisp at all. at the very least, Brunell has been getting rid of the ball when nothings open and not turning it over. the problem: nothings open TOO DAMN OFTEN. (or not open ENOUGH)

:rant:

I'm gona lay a strategy out there as if I were the coach. First offensive line the good pass protection butt horrible run blocking. It looks like folks are out of shape, not finishing, going until the whistle stops. We need that drive especially with a guy like portis who only needs a seam to wrip a big one. only 6 players used on dffense thats horrible :mad:

Running backs where are the rest of them? I'd like to see some change of pace Betts power game, Rock Cartright goal line comeon we got the talent lets use all of it not just the stars.

Same message on the WR position we have great wr not being utilized McCants case on point. Other not being used the right way. Lets look at some film why was coles so successful in New York. The thing with Gardner is that he is a possession wr use have to use him often similar to a TO, or a Keyshawn. let him strect the field often not just in last resort, ie the browns game (3 rep, 19 yrds) :banghead: Were McCants in the middle, Jacobs on the fade. thrash getting smashed :smashfrea (but making the catch :laughing- )

TE/ HBacks:
Good use of them on 3rd down but lets mixed it up how bout a cut back were the blocking and portis goes one way, Cooley and the ball go the other lets jazz it up it looks way too simple.

Defense: good overall especially with no Lavar. But let get some more film study we're getting caught on the okie doke plays. I'd like to see more blitzing from Taylor every now expects Bowen to come in let him drop back. The rookie also needs to work open field tackling (ouch!!) he looked real bad. Sorry Jimoh fan but ur boy had no business out there getting burned with Taylor on a fade route, with springs blitzing on a key drive. ( thats if he's #23). Blitz Jimoh not springs he needs to cover in that situation.

Special teams: Can we rip one back please!! Good effort Hall he's always in on the tackle on or near it on kickoff others need to show heart like that. Now I'm ranting please feel free to comment on what i've feel the same or different.

Maybe the team is not sold on the plays called. We haven't done a good job exploiting mismatches. Down after down, we line the WRs up in bunch, send the TE or halfback in motion, and run the counter. Where's the imagination?

[QUOTE=illdefined]i think they're 100% focused and dedicated, but they're trying to overcome some big things with shaky results. Coles his toe, and Portis 8 man fronts bigger than him and running right into them w/o even a fullback.[/QUOTE]
But you see, they're not trying to just take care of their job and play football, they're trying to overly compensate for the way the defense is playing. I think they're problem may be that they're focusing too much on some parts of the game, and leaving other parts of their game vulnerable. I posted some thoughts in the 'thread of reason' from Charles Mann that tie right into what I'm trying to say here.

[QUOTE=cpayne5]But you see, they're not trying to just take care of their job and play football, they're trying to overly compensate for the way the defense is playing. I think they're problem may be that they're focusing too much on some parts of the game, and leaving other parts of their game vulnerable. I posted some thoughts in the 'thread of reason' from Charles Mann that tie right into what I'm trying to say here.[/QUOTE]
Here's the direct link to that post.

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?p=36874#post36874[/url]