Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/22/wildcat-stays-in-the-bag/]Washington Times - Wildcat stays in the bag[/url]

Not that I'm too disappointed we're not running Wildcat but I did watch the Zorn Coach's Show after Redskin Report early last season right after the dolphins used it on the patriots and beat them.

Keep in mind I like Zorn but George Micheal asked him what his thoughts were on that system with players like Randle El. Zorn came off like he was a student of the game doing his due diligence and told Micheal that he was going to research that scheme and investigate its benefits after the season is over to see if it will work with us.

Meanwhile a majority of the league, with rookie coaches included, picked it up midseason and were using it to their advantage in games weeks after it was first displayed.

I'm not downing Zorn but it does seem like he fears a how well our players can grasp a scheme without making major mistakes. I couldn't tell you if that's a coaching or player issue. What do you think?

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

You know, I read that article this morning and thought Zorn came off as a bit stubborn and arrogant by saying he won't consider it. So you mean to say that you have such confidence in the 28th ranked scoring offense in the league that there's not room for any innovation or new ideas? Especially with more college players coming out of spread offenses it would be nice to see some flexibility and imagination in the offense.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

I think Zorn just doesn't want to spend a lot of time on it if we're not going to use it that much. It looked to me like the players had their hands full last year just trying to learn the WCO.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

If Zorn showed us anything last year it was his inability to be innovative, aggressive or willing to change up a game plan. I'm sure his offense is still going to be run, run, pass.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528826]If Zorn showed us anything last year it was his [B]inability to be innovative, aggressive [/B][B]or willing to change up a game plan.[/B] I'm sure his offense is still going to be run, run, pass.[/quote]

I think Zorn has the ability. You have to realize the weight of what he took on. Its obvious his game plan was working the first half of the season. When the team started to break down due to injury and fatigue (our 30 year old+ guys) He didnt have the depth on the team to draw from to make the adjustments. Also if I remeber correctly when the team was firing on all cylinders, Zorn would go for it on 4th down without fear. And it worked every time. He has shown he can be aggressive. He just had to be realistic and so should we. The Skins had no depth and a new system to implement. There cant be a "plan B" until there is an established "plan A". I think we will see a much improved team in 09. even if we dont aquire a big FA, we have guys that are becoming more experienced and will take it to the next level. And a coach capable of the same.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=44ever;528832] When the team started to break down due to injury and fatigue (our 30+ guys) He didnt have the depth on the team to draw from to make the adjustments. [/quote]

This is a lousy excuse. Guys that make your 53 man roster as backups are expected to come in and get the job done. Injuries are a part of the game. I see every other team in the league utilizing their rookies on a consistent basis. We were successful in the first half of the season 'cause we ran the ball well and teams did not necessarily know what to expect from Zorn and his hybrid offense. As soon as teams started to see that we were a vanilla-run first offense, it became very easy for them to shut us down. Portis found himself constantly running into eight and nine man fronts. I don't want to hear how "injuries and lack of depth" were the reason for us not being fundamentally aggressive as an offense. Zorn always played for the first down and rarely took unexpected shots at the end zone- then he had the nerve when asked about it, to blame it on the O lines inability to pass protect. Bullsh*t. As for the few times he went for it on 4th downs, a lot of coaches would have made the same calls. Going for it on 4th down is not that risky depending on distance, field position, score and time left. Fact is our O sputtered vastly because of play calling and not quality depth.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528836]This is a lousy excuse. Guys that make your 53 man roster as backups are expected to come in and get the job done. Injuries are a part of the game. I see every other team in the league utilizing their rookies on a consistent basis. We were successful in the first half of the season 'cause we ran the ball well and teams did not necessarily know what to expect from Zorn and his hybrid offense. As soon as teams started to see that we were a vanilla-run first offense, it became very easy for them to shut us down. Portis found himself constantly running into eight and nine man fronts. I don't want to hear how "injuries and lack of depth" were the reason for us not being fundamentally aggressive as an offense. Zorn always played for the first down and rarely took unexpected shots at the end zone- then he had the nerve when asked about it, to blame it on the O lines inability to pass protect. Bullsh*t. As for the few times he went for it on 4th downs, a lot of coaches would have made the same calls. Going for it on 4th down is not that risky depending on distance, field position, score and time left. Fact is our O sputtered vastly because of play calling and not quality depth.[/quote]

I don't know about that, as I agree with 44ever.. Although I think u might do have a point regarding run-first offense.. Teams figured out in middle of the season that we rely on Portis heavily to carry us.. AND that was when our O-line started to fall apart.. In order to have good O-line, the players need to play together lot to know each other's weakness, therefore they could help each other to prevent the exposure of those weaknesses.. Also you are right about our back-ups BUT we did not have capable back-ups to step up (we thought we did).. Which is why we are hearing buzzes about drafting one of OT or C studs.. Zorn and FO know that we need to do something about our O-line (starting and back-ups).. How in the world do you expect J. Campbell to be able to throw balls all day right when he usually have only 2-3 seconds to read defense and throw ball? That puts Zorn in binds as he could not be aggressive because he knows that Campbell would not have enough time..

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

is this kind of announcing who you are going to draft, before the draft? even if he were going to use it, why tell everyone?

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528836]This is a lousy excuse. Guys that make your 53 man roster as backups are expected to come in and get the job done. Injuries are a part of the game. I see every other team in the league utilizing their rookies on a consistent basis. We were successful in the first half of the season 'cause we ran the ball well and teams did not necessarily know what to expect from Zorn and his hybrid offe[B][/B]nse. As soon as teams started to see that we were a [B]vanilla-run first offense[/B], it became very easy for them to shut us down. Portis found himself constantly running into eight and nine man fronts. I don't want to hear how "injuries and lack of depth" were the reason for us not being fundamentally aggressive as an offense. Zorn always played for the first down and rarely took unexpected shots at the end zone- then he had the nerve when asked about it, to blame it on the O lines inability to pass protect.. Bullsh*t. As for the few times he went for it on 4th downs, a lot of coaches would have made the same calls. Going for it on 4th down is not that risky depending on distance, field position, score and time left. [B]Fact is our O sputtered vastly because of play calling and not quality depth[/B].[/quote]

OK. What ever you say. Tell that to Samuels, Jansen, Geisinger,Thomas and Portis to name a few. Not getting into the Zorn thing again. You have your opinion I have mine. If you believe injuries and fatigue didnt play into our late season losses then your looking at things narrowly and putting the blame on Zorn completly. I dont make excuses for Zorn. I really doubt it took 8 games for the NFL to figure out our "Hybrid" vanilla-run first offense. And Zorns statement means we probably will be using the wildcat. IMO

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

we should at least use some...

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=GridIron26;528837]I don't know about that, as I agree with 44ever.. Although I think u might do have a point regarding run-first offense.. Teams figured out in middle of the season that we rely on Portis heavily to carry us.. AND that was when our O-line started to fall apart.. In order to have good O-line, the players need to play together lot to know each other's weakness, therefore they could help each other to prevent the exposure of those weaknesses.. Also you are right about our back-ups BUT we did not have capable back-ups to step up (we thought we did).. Which is why we are hearing buzzes about drafting one of OT or C studs.. Zorn and FO know that we need to do something about our O-line (starting and back-ups).. [b]How in the world do you expect J. Campbell to be able to throw balls all day right when he usually have only 2-3 seconds to read defense and throw ball? That puts Zorn in binds as he could not be aggressive because he knows that Campbell would not have enough time..[/b][/quote]
Not to discount the validity of this, although it's become an all encompassing excuse (the reason the US is in a recession is because we have an old OL) but that really starts to speak to the lack of innovation in Zorn's playcalling.. When you have to compensate for OL deficiencies then you have to be more creative with more shotgun and moving the pocket/rolling out. He didn't do any of that later in the season. One of the questions/criticisms of Zorn when he was hired from those who knew him in Seattle were his stubbornness and ability to deal with adversity. He's confident in his abilities and ideas but had a tendency to be rather rigid in his beliefs. It'd be nice to see some adaptability to things that may make the offense more effective.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=Paintrain;528848]Not to discount the validity of this, although it's become an all encompassing excuse (the reason the US is in a recession is because we have an old OL) but that really starts to speak to the lack of innovation in Zorn's playcalling.. When you have to compensate for OL deficiencies then you have to be more creative with more shotgun and moving the pocket/rolling out. He didn't do any of that later in the season. One of the questions/criticisms of Zorn when he was hired from those who knew him in Seattle were his stubbornness and ability to deal with adversity. He's confident in his abilities and ideas but had a tendency to be rather rigid in his beliefs. It'd be nice to see some adaptability to things that may make the offense more effective.[/quote]

You have a good point, I was thinking about shotgun part myself as well a while ago.. But all I'm trying to say that it's not all Zorn's fault, like DirtyLandry appears to be claiming so.. O-line factor does play in this role..

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

I don't know about this wildcat formation stuff? With Randal El in there and a few other gadget guys I don't know why we don't have more wildcat stuff? Maybe we'll see some more things later. We do use them every once in awhile.
It's probably too soon to have a lot of gadgets when we don't have the WCO down pact right now. My only hope is that we can solidify the WCO and have a gadget here and there before Z gets the boot. It just seems like a waste of time and money to restructure the offense every other year.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=Paintrain;528848]Not to discount the validity of this, although it's become an all encompassing excuse (the reason the US is in a recession is because we have an old OL) but that really starts to speak to the lack of innovation in Zorn's playcalling.. [B]When you have to compensate for OL deficiencies then you have to be more creative with more shotgun and moving the pocket/rolling out[/B]. He didn't do any of that later in the season. One of the questions/criticisms of Zorn when he was hired from those who knew him in Seattle were his stubbornness and ability to deal with adversity. He's confident in his abilities and ideas but had a tendency to be rather rigid in his beliefs. It'd be nice to see some adaptability to things that may make the offense more effective.[/quote]

True Paintrain but the debate is still out if that has to do more with Zorns playcall, Campbells ability or Zorns confidence in Campbell.

I also expect to see more creativity in the offensive scheme and we should in 09'. We still have to keep in mind that Zorn played his rookie year last year.

Point is we went 6-2 with Zorn and a healthy team. We went 8-8 with Zorn and a unhealthy team and not much depth. I certainly agree Zorn needs to step up his playcall and adaptability, and of course some of the blame is his. But not all of it. As was stated earlier.

But its way to early to say that Zorn lacks the ability. IMO

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

How 'bout we get the regular offensive plays down before we start doing trick plays? I don't know why people are making such a fuss about this.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=44ever;528852]True Paintrain but the debate is still out if that has to do more with Zorns playcall, Campbells ability or Zorns confidence in Campbell.

I also expect to see more creativity in the offensive scheme and we should in 09'. We still have to keep in mind that Zorn played his rookie year last year.

Point is we went 6-2 with Zorn and a healthy team. We went 8-8 with Zorn and a unhealthy team and not much depth. I certainly agree Zorn needs to step up his playcall and adaptability, and of course some of the blame is his. But not all of it. As was stated earlier.

But its way to early to say that Zorn lacks the ability. IMO[/quote]

Agreed, we don't know all the factors and limitations at play. It is just kind of frustrating to see other teams facing some of the same challenges (new offense, new coaches, shaky OL) doing the necessary things to get the ball into the end zone and we stubbornly stuck to what wasn't really working anymore.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=Ruhskins;528853]How 'bout we get the regular offensive plays down before we start doing trick plays? I don't know why people are making such a fuss about this.[/quote]

Exactly. Plus, as dmek said, why tip anyone off that we may use it? I'm sure Randle El could run some wildcat for us, but why announce it?

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=GMScud;528862]Exactly. Plus, as dmek said, why tip anyone off that we may use it? I'm sure Randle El could run some wildcat for us, [B]but why announce it?[/B][/quote]

What, you didn't catch Tony Sparano's press conference last offseason telling the league that they were going to run the wildcat? LOL.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=44ever;528843]OK. What ever you say. Tell that to Samuels, Jansen, Geisinger,Thomas and Portis to name a few. Not getting into the Zorn thing again. You have your opinion I have mine. If you believe injuries and fatigue didnt play into our late season losses then your looking at things narrowly and putting the blame on Zorn completly. I dont make excuses for Zorn. I really doubt it took 8 games for the NFL to figure out our "Hybrid" vanilla-run first offense. And Zorns statement means we probably will be using the wildcat. IMO[/quote]

I take it straight from the players mouths. Portis said that halfway through the season the coaches started to tell him how to hit the hole, how to fall and thus their offensive production went way down. Portis was extremely vocal and upset about the fact that he was expected to be the workhorse and was constantly "running into a bunch of jerseys". The NFL has evolved. Archaic coaching does not work anymore. You can't just call 50-gut on every other first down and expect your guys to simply "execute" it. This might have worked 30 years ago, not now. While our O lines' age and injuries could be partly to blame, I still maintain that stubborn coaching and dated philosophies are the death of a lot of potential talent in the NFL. This has been a problem for a while now...coaches not willing to relinquish control or to adapt with the times.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=Paintrain;528859]Agreed, we don't know all the factors and limitations at play. It is just kind of frustrating to see other teams facing some of the same challenges ([B]new offense, new coaches, shaky OL[/B]) doing the necessary things to get the ball into the end zone and we stubbornly stuck to what wasn't really working anymore.[/quote]

I hear ya Paintrain, But unfortunatly we faced all three challenges. And I agree it is definatly frustating.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528864]I take it straight from the players mouths. Portis said that halfway through the season the coaches started to tell him how to hit the hole, how to fall and thus their offensive production went way down. [B]Portis was extremely vocal and upset about the fact that he was expected to be the workhorse[/B] and was constantly "running into a bunch of jerseys". The NFL has evolved. Archaic coaching does not work anymore. You can't just call 50-gut on every other first down and expect your guys to simply "execute" it. This might have worked 30 years ago, not now. While our O lines' age and injuries could be partly to blame, I still maintain that stubborn coaching and dated philosophies are the death of a lot of potential talent in the NFL. This has been a problem for a while now...coaches not willing to relinquish control or to adapt with the times.[/quote]

What are you talking about? Portis wanted the ball
[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/clinton_portis_and_the_quest_f.html]Clinton Portis and the Quest for 1,500 Yards - D.C. Sports Bog[/url]

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=44ever;528866]What are you talking about? Portis wanted the ball
[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2008/12/clinton_portis_and_the_quest_f.html]Clinton Portis and the Quest for 1,500 Yards - D.C. Sports Bog[/url][/quote]

Your little article is completely irrelevant. Clinton made these comments late in the season while he was 93 yards away from an important stat among running backs. You could not blame him for wanting this number after being the sacrificial lamb of this team for four years. While many players would deny it, stats and milestones are important to them. If you followed the team closely enough, you would know that Clinton has gone on record several times regarding his displeasure with being made to shoulder the load. Gibbs would let Clinton take himself in and out of the game at will, whereas Zorn stripped him of this right. Just look at the number of carries Clinton had vs. Betts. Clinton has made several comments as well (often said in jest) about losing good playing years because of being the workhorse and taking the pounding that he has. I can't think of another team in this league now that primarily utilizes a single running back like we do. No One in today's nfl should expect a RB to take 90% of the carries and Clinton would tell you the same.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

I understand some of your points DirtyLandry and also think Zorn got to be a little to conservative. Maybe by neccessity, I don't know. But Portis pretty much says whatever is to his benefit.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528868]Your little article is completely irrelevant. Clinton made these comments late in the season while he was 93 yards away from an important stat among running backs. You could not blame him for wanting this number after being the sacrificial lamb of this team for four years. While many players would deny it, stats and milestones are important to them. If you followed the team closely enough, you would know that Clinton has gone on record several times regarding his displeasure with being made to shoulder the load. Gibbs would let Clinton take himself in and out of the game at will, whereas Zorn stripped him of this right. Just look at the number of carries Clinton had vs. Betts. Clinton has made several comments as well (often said in jest) about losing good playing years because of being the workhorse and taking the pounding that he has. I can't think of another team in this league now that primarily utilizes a single running back like we do. No One in today's nfl should expect a RB to take 90% of the carries and Clinton would tell you the same.[/quote]

Hey Im all for a 2 Back system. If what your saying about Portis is true then the article reveals a double standard. It would imply he only wants to carry the ball often for his own selfish reasons and not for the teams success. I dont believe that to be the case. But if you believe that then that means you agree with Riggins. I don't.

Anyway this is getting way off subject. Getting back to where we started. You dont like Zorns ability and said he has shown none. I disagree.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=44ever;528871]Hey Im all for a 2 Back system. If what your saying about Portis is trus then the article reveals a double standard. It would imply he only wants to carry the ball often for his own selfish reasons and not for the teams success. I dont believe that to be the case. But if you believe that then that means you agree with Riggins. I don't.

Anyway this is getting way off subject. Getting back to where we started. You dont like Zorns ability and said he has shown none. I disagree.[/quote]

We'll agree to disagree. On a side note, Zorn learned from the school of "Chuck Knox". Often referred to "Ground Chuck" for his conservative ground rushing attack.

I will give Zorn another year to prove he can change, I just have my doubts becuase he showed us nothing different in an entire season. For all of us, I hope I'm wrong.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528872]We'll agree to disagree. On a side note, Zorn learned from the school of "Chuck Knox". Often referred to "Ground Chuck" for his conservative ground rushing attack.

I will give Zorn another year to prove he can change, I just have my doubts becuase he showed us nothing different in an entire season. For all of us, I hope I'm wrong.[/quote]

I dont blame you for your doubts brother. And I may be overly optomistic. I just think there are to many variables to pin the blame on any one specific player/coach. I hope your wrong too. But I may be wrong and for all of us I hope not. I think we agree to give Zorn a 2nd year and I think thats a logical way to see it. Hopefully this time next year we will both be happy with the Skins and have a lot more to agree on. see ya on the next thread.:boxing:

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

Ok, but i ask this...say we did run the wildcat, and it works but then what happens when teams are able to deffend us aganist the wildcat, and we are forced to use our orginal offense which is right now still not completely grasped yet by our players?

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

Wildcat = gimmick or fad (offense of the week).

Randel El on a reverse pass or double pass is fine. We need to concentrate on executing the WCO. With a healthy OL we should be able to return to the 6-2 form from early in the season.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528868]Your little article is completely irrelevant. Clinton made these comments late in the season while he was 93 yards away from an important stat among running backs. You could not blame him for wanting this number after being the sacrificial lamb of this team for four years. While many players would deny it, stats and milestones are important to them. If you followed the team closely enough, you would know that Clinton has gone on record several times regarding his displeasure with being made to shoulder the load. Gibbs would let Clinton take himself in and out of the game at will, whereas Zorn stripped him of this right. Just look at the number of carries Clinton had vs. Betts. Clinton has made several comments as well (often said in jest) about losing good playing years because of being the workhorse and taking the pounding that he has. I can't think of another team in this league now that primarily utilizes a single running back like we do. No One in today's nfl should expect a RB to take 90% of the carries and Clinton would tell you the same.[/quote]How about Portis STFU, stop whining, and make some damn plays. He's a solid back but his mouth on the JT show and me first attitude is wearing pretty thin. What #1 back pulls himself out of the game once his team gets in the Red Zone. Larry Brown didn't, Riggo didn't, Byner didn't, Stephen Davis didn't, LT doesn't, Peterson doesn't. Who gives a $hit about personal stats, I thought the point of NFL football was to win games. How about supporting your teammates and coaching staff rather than blasting them in the media in the midst of a tough stretch of games. Portis isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread and I'm certainly not going to him for an offensive game plan. Maybe if he was willing to take some of the coaching from Stump and Zorn he would've been closer to or hit his numbers.

Bad OL = poor offensive production. Did Zorn's playcalling go from great at 6-2 to crap in a couple of weeks?

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;528953]How about Portis STFU, stop whining, and make some damn plays. He's a solid back but his mouth on the JT show and me first attitude is wearing pretty thin. What #1 back pulls himself out of the game once his team gets in the Red Zone. Larry Brown didn't, Riggo didn't, Byner didn't, Stephen Davis didn't, LT doesn't, Peterson doesn't. Who gives a $hit about personal stats, I thought the point of NFL football was to win games. How about supporting your teammates and coaching staff rather than blasting them in the media in the midst of a tough stretch of games. Portis isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread and I'm certainly not going to him for an offensive game plan. Maybe if he was willing to take some of the coaching from Stump and Zorn he would've been closer to or hit his numbers.

Bad OL = poor offensive production. Did Zorn's playcalling go from great at 6-2 to crap in a couple of weeks?[/quote]
:laughing2 Damn Sammy! Portis is also the one who whines about being taken out of a game so they can run plays Betts has practiced all week because Portis didn't practice and apparently didn't know the plays. Baltimore.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

A Wildcat play here and there is fine, but I'm glad that Zorn isn't fully committing to it. I think that saying we're going to start using a lot of gadget plays this year (Wildcat, or whatever else) is almost another way of saying "we don't trust our QB to run an effective offense so we're going to mask his inefficiencies with smoke and mirrors" and that's the last thing Zorn needs to say or Campbell needs to hear.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;528836]This is a lousy excuse. Guys that make your 53 man roster as backups are expected to come in and get the job done. Injuries are a part of the game. I see every other team in the league utilizing their rookies on a consistent basis. We were successful in the first half of the season 'cause we ran the ball well and teams did not necessarily know what to expect from Zorn and his hybrid offense. As soon as teams started to see that we were a vanilla-run first offense, it became very easy for them to shut us down. Portis found himself constantly running into eight and nine man fronts. I don't want to hear how "injuries and lack of depth" were the reason for us not being fundamentally aggressive as an offense. Zorn always played for the first down and rarely took unexpected shots at the end zone- then he had the nerve when asked about it, to blame it on the O lines inability to pass protect. Bullsh*t. As for the few times he went for it on 4th downs, a lot of coaches would have made the same calls. Going for it on 4th down is not that risky depending on distance, field position, score and time left. Fact is our O sputtered vastly because of play calling and not quality depth.[/quote]


Amen. Brother........:food-smil

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

Zorn wasn't the only new coach and not the only to not have been a ballin coordinator. It's up to him to make sure that we can be competitive. Those are my thoughts on the matter.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;528953]How about Portis STFU, stop whining, and make some damn plays. He's a solid back but his mouth on the JT show and me first attitude is wearing pretty thin. What #1 back pulls himself out of the game once his team gets in the Red Zone. Larry Brown didn't, Riggo didn't, Byner didn't, Stephen Davis didn't, LT doesn't, Peterson doesn't. Who gives a $hit about personal stats, I thought the point of NFL football was to win games. How about supporting your teammates and coaching staff rather than blasting them in the media in the midst of a tough stretch of games. Portis isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread and I'm certainly not going to him for an offensive game plan. Maybe if he was willing to take some of the coaching from Stump and Zorn he would've been closer to or hit his numbers.

Bad OL = poor offensive production. Did Zorn's playcalling go from great at 6-2 to crap in a couple of weeks?[/quote]

All good points regarding Portis, however... I can somewhat empathize with the guy considering he's carried this offense since he came to Washington in 2004. Your talking about a guy who was off to one of the fastest, most prolific starts of a career for all time running backs. While I agree he shouldn't publicly blast his teammates or coaches, he should be frustrated as f*ck. He's gone from one conservative, run first offense (Gibbs), to another (Zorn). I don't think his only concern is his personal stats, but rather to be a more effective offense and not foolishly try to run into a stacked box.

As far as your comment about zorns playcalling going from great (at 6-2 to crap) is silly. It was the same O line at 6-2 as it was when it went 2-6. Portis' comments eluded to the fact that midway through the season, Stump Mitchells coaching was being overridden and all of the sudden the RB's were micro managed to the teams detriment. I would be pissed too. This guy lays it on the line every sunday, and if every Redskin gave the effort he did, they'd be a lot better off as a team. He throws blocks that other halfbacks would never dare to. You're obviously from the old school, so me making the argument of poor playcalling is gonna get us nowhere.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=DirtyLandry;529334]All good points regarding Portis, however... I can somewhat empathize with the guy considering he's carried this offense since he came to Washington in 2004. Your talking about a guy who was off to one of the fastest, most prolific starts of a career for all time running backs. While I agree he shouldn't publicly blast his teammates or coaches, he should be frustrated as f*ck. He's gone from one conservative, run first offense (Gibbs), to another (Zorn). I don't think his only concern is his personal stats, but rather to be a more effective offense and not foolishly try to run into a stacked box.[/quote]While Gibbs' offense was conservative, this was no mystery. His philosphy put him in the HoF. 3 out of the last 4 Super Bowls were won by "conservative" run first offenses. Zorn's offense isn't conservative by nature, but had to become that way when the OL was decimated by lingering injuries and age. Didn't hear Portis whining when the Skins were 6-2 and he was on top of the league in rushing. Same playcalls, no stacked boxes that I saw. Also, no running back carries a team without production from the OL.

[quote]As far as your comment about zorns playcalling going from great (at 6-2 to crap) is silly. [B]It was the same O line at 6-2 as it was when it went 2-6.[/B] [/quote]Wrong. The OL broke down from injury/age right before our eyes in the Pitt / Balt games and never recovered.

[quote]This guy lays it on the line every sunday, and if every Redskin gave the effort he did, they'd be a lot better off as a team. He throws blocks that other halfbacks would never dare to.[/quote]90%+ of the SKins put forth the same effort, they just don't go on the JT show and elsewhere and tell you about it.

[quote]You're obviously from the old school, so me making the argument of poor playcalling is gonna get us nowhere.[/quote]I am old-school, but old-school doesn't mean run, run, pass. I have no problem with a spread offense, WCO or whatever puts points on the board. I understand those offensive philosophies. But the coaching tree Zorn comes from has had offensive success in the NFL and many teams have the same or a similar style. Your using Zorn's playcalling as the main excuse we stumbled at the end of the year. Your premise is incorrect.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote]Wrong. The OL broke down from injury/age right before our eyes in the Pitt / Balt games and never recovered.[/quote]*If you honestly believe this, YOUR premise is incorrect.*[quote]But the coaching tree Zorn comes from has had offensive success in the NFL and many teams have the same or a similar style. Your using Zorn's play calling as the main excuse we stumbled at the end of the year. Your premise is incorrect.[/quote][/QUOTE]
Wrong. Zorn tried all year to mesh a Gibbs run game with a Holmgren passing game. I never said that this is why the O stumbled at the end of the year, it's why we stumbled all year. I also acknowledged in another post that injuries and age could be partly to blame. Just because we went 6-2 doesn't mean we had a good offense. I don't think Campbell had a single game with more than 1 touchdown. Is this because Campbell is the worst QB in the league? No. It is indicative of bad play calling. If I could tell you what play we were going to run was before the snap (sitting on my ass at home), then you can sure as hell bet that NFL defenses are going to know. I'd love to give Z the benefit of the doubt and allow him another year to figure it out, especially being that he is so overly confident in himself being a coordinator despite having no real credentials. His O might turn out to be a work of genius, but the problem that I have with him and his philosophy is "lets get a 3 point lead, run the clock out and rely on our defense". I would like to think that when you're up, you should be that much more aggressive and put teams away, instead of letting them linger, stay in the game and make 4th quarter comebacks.

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

DirtyLandry ... Did'nt I see this same argument somewhere before? I'd have to go with Slingin Sammy33 on this one;)

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=44ever;529435]DirtyLandry ... Did'nt I see this same argument somewhere before? I'd have to go with Slingin Sammy33 on this one;)[/quote]

Hey! Feel free to agree with him. Isn't this the whole idea of this website? To allow for discussion, debate and argument? I don't argue for the sake of arguing, I like to exchange ideas based on the things I feel strongly about. I'm not one to get on a site and make silly jokes about the shape of a players head and get on my knees for other fans. It's the off season, let's make it a little interesting!

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

Fincher looks like someone put him in a headlock and forgot to let go!

Re: Zorn not using Wildcat next year
 

[quote=SmootSmack;529033]A Wildcat play here and there is fine, but I'm glad that Zorn isn't fully committing to it. I think that saying we're going to start using a lot of gadget plays this year (Wildcat, or whatever else) is almost another way of saying "we don't trust our QB to run an effective offense so we're going to mask his inefficiencies with smoke and mirrors" and that's the last thing Zorn needs to say or Campbell needs to hear.[/quote]

I agree. With the excecption of the NE / MIA game the wildcat was not very effective. It was good for about 1 play a game and early in the year thet play might have gotten you a TD. It should not be considered an integral part of your gameplan only something that you might have in the bag if the right opportunity presents itself. Since that is the case, why does it have to be the "Wildcat"? There are more gimmicks out there that are also successfull.