Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[url=http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Clark_s_Story_Worth_Remembering_31546.jsp]Clark's Story Worth Remembering[/url]

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

Its a good thing we let him go and made Adam Archuletta the highest paid safety in the league. That was a good move.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

... don't get me started.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

I wonder if the Giants' message boards talk about losing Ryan Clark as well?

We made a mistake, it happens. There are plenty of people we've let go of that have amounted to nothing as well.

Nice piece though, thanks for posting the link 44

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=44ever;523868][URL="http://www.redskins.com/gen/articles/Clark_s_Story_Worth_Remembering_31546.jsp"]Clark's Story Worth Remembering[/URL][/quote]

I do agree that it was blunderous to let a guy go who hits that hard and brings enthusiasm to the defense.

But being that he wound up on a Super Bowl bound team shouldn't make it worse. He isn't the best safety on their team and he is getting recognition becuase no other teams are playing right now.

Was it a mistake letting him go for Archuleta?...Hell yes...but it doesn't make it worse now that he's on a Super Bowl team. We let Dockery go, for good financial reason, and him being on the paltry bills doesn't seem to bother people.


Letting Clark go was a dumb player personnel decision but it shouldn't matter now just becuase he is playing in the Super Bowl...unless you just want to rub it in Snyderato's face...then I guess it would be notable.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

I was at that Philly game where Clark sealed the game with an INT in the last minute. The thing that was especially stupid about letting Clark go was that he wasn't asking for much, [I]and he wanted to stay[/I]. Of the defensive players at that time, he was the only one who had a close relationship with Sean Taylor, when Taylor was still a "wild child". The Clark hits that the article describes (Welker and McGahee) were two of the hardest hits that I saw this entire season. They were very reminiscent of Taylor's, something that was sorely lacking this past season on our defense. Sad to say, but we haven't had a true enforcer in the secondary since Taylor died - I'm still waiting for Landry to become that intimidating presense.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=SmootSmack;523874]I wonder if the Giants' message boards talk about losing Ryan Clark as well?

We made a mistake, it happens. There are plenty of people we've let go of that have amounted to nothing as well.

Nice piece though, thanks for posting the link 44[/quote]

oh I bet the Gmen are talking the same. The difference is he really wanted to be a Redskins. And you're right it's a hindsight 20/20

but it reminds me of how important this offseason will be as far as how we evaluate our players. Example: Hopefully Hall and Rogers will not automatically be made into a choice between the two of them, but possibly seen as a compliment to each other.

Hall has also stated he would like to remain a Redskins. I would like to see that as well.

Entertaining the idea of losing Moss is disturbing. I think ARE if utilized correctly would be a great asset.

Hoping there is some flexability and forsight in the FO this year
Just some things that came to mind after reading this article.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[QUOTE=SouperMeister;523881]I was at that Philly game where Clark sealed the game with an INT in the last minute. The thing that was especially stupid about letting Clark go was that he wasn't asking for much, [I]and he wanted to stay[/I]. Of the defensive players at that time, he was the only one who had a close relationship with Sean Taylor, when Taylor was still a "wild child". The Clark hits that the article describes (Welker and McGahee) were two of the hardest hits that I saw this entire season. They were very reminiscent of Taylor's, [B]something that was sorely lacking this past season on our defense. Sad to say, but we haven't had a true enforcer in the secondary since Taylor died - I'm still waiting for Landry to become that intimidating presense.[/[/B]QUOTE]

Ditto. Ditto. Ditto.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

Allegedly, we let Dockery go because he was asking for an unreasonable amount of money and we didnt have the cap space to compete with other offers he was getting. Thats understandable. (Even though i think Dockery wasnt asking us for nearly as much as he got from buffalo. If management here had any forsight at all, they would have given dockery a new contract and then cut Randy Thomas when his contract became to expensive. Instead, they decided to put their money in a guy who was already over 30 at the time, instead of one who was barely 26... but i digress)

When we let Clark go, he was a very good starting safety asking for a very reasonable amount of money. we had the cap space, but we let him go to sign Archuletta to a deal where his [I]garaunteed [/I]money was more than the [I]total [/I]contract money it would have cost to keep Clark.

If we had kept Clark, not only would we have not drafted Archuletta, but we also wouldnt have needed to draft Landry either. So thats not one, but TWO huge contracts we had to sign because we didnt pay Clark his worth. Those two contracts (and draft pick in the case of Landry) could have been used to upgrade other areas of our team. At the time, DL was a very pressing need and it still is now.

If we had kept Clark, we could have signed one of the many DT/DEs available in place of Archuletta) and drafted another in 2007 place of Landry. Taking it a step further, with our DL situation pretty much set, we wouldnt have traded next years 2nd rounder and 2010s 6th rounder to Miami last year for Jason Taylor when Phillip Daniels got hurt. We also wouldnt have traded a 7th to the Vikings for James.

Entering this years draft, our DL would be set and we would have picks in rounds 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7.

Some can try to overlook snubbing ryan clark as being just one small mistake, but the way I see it, the trickle down effect was huge. Even if we chose to address different areas in free agency and the draft, our team would be stronger today.

This team has shown over the past decade that it overvalues other teams' free agents and our own old, decling veterans, while undervaluing our homegrown young guys. This team would be much younger, stronger, and in better salary cap shape right now if we had decided to pay guys like Antonio Pierce, Dockery, and Clark to stick around. All of them were the definition of "core skins" at the time and were offering us a hometown discount to stay. instead, we let them go and replaced them by signing older FA Vets, trading picks away for older vets (Kendall to replace Dockery), and spending high draft picks to replace them.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

Another dumb move by our wonderful front office but, losing Clark hasn't been much of a regression as we made out pretty good with Landry, whom I hope gets more physical and Horton.
Keeping Hall and Rogers should be the two Clowns top priority this off season, along with saying goodbye to Springs. If Spring stays and Rogers or Hall goes, the strongest part of our defense will become our weakest link.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=44ever;523882]oh I bet the Gmen are talking the same. The difference is he really wanted to be a Redskins. And you're right it's a hindsight 20/20

but it reminds me of how important this offseason will be as far as how we evaluate our players. Example: Hopefully Hall and Rogers will not automatically be made into a choice between the two of them, but possibly seen as a compliment to each other.

Hall has also stated he would like to remain a Redskins. I would like to see that as well.

Entertaining the idea of losing Moss is disturbing. I think ARE if utilized correctly would be a great asset.

Hoping there is some flexability and forsight in the FO this year
Just some things that came to mind after reading this article.[/quote]

I'd rather lose Moss one year too early than one year too late.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=SmootSmack;523893]I'd rather lose Moss one year too early than one year too late.[/quote]

What do you mean by that Smoot?

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;523887]Allegedly, we let Dockery go because he was asking for an unreasonable amount of money and we didnt have the cap space to compete with other offers he was getting. Thats understandable. (Even though i think Dockery wasnt asking us for nearly as much as he got from buffalo. If management here had any forsight at all, they would have given dockery a new contract and then cut Randy Thomas when his contract became to expensive. Instead, they decided to put their money in a guy who was already over 30 at the time, instead of one who was barely 26... but i digress)[/quote]

Dockery was asking for a shitload of money, if I recall correctly it was around a $17 million signing bonus. Interesting point about Thomas.

[quote]When we let Clark go, he was a very good starting safety asking for a very reasonable amount of money. we had the cap space, but we let him go to sign Archuletta to a deal where his [I]garaunteed [/I]money was more than the [I]total [/I]contract money it would have cost to keep Clark. [/quote]

Who'd have known Archuleta would have been so terrible. But Williams insisted, I thought Arch was overrated but my gosh he was terrible. Even Gibbs, who could find good in just about everyone, thought he was a waste

[quote]If we had kept Clark, not only would we have not drafted Archuletta, but we also wouldnt have needed to draft Landry either. So thats not one, but TWO huge contracts we had to sign because we didnt pay Clark his worth. Those two contracts (and draft pick in the case of Landry) could have been used to upgrade other areas of our team. At the time, DL was a very pressing need and it still is now.

If we had kept Clark, we could have signed one of the many DT/DEs available in place of Archuletta) and drafted another in 2007 place of Landry. Taking it a step further, with our DL situation pretty much set, we wouldnt have traded next years 2nd rounder and 2010s 6th rounder to Miami last year for Jason Taylor when Phillip Daniels got hurt. We also wouldnt have traded a 7th to the Vikings for James.

Entering this years draft, our DL would be set and we would have picks in rounds 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7.

Some can try to overlook snubbing ryan clark as being just one small mistake, but the way I see it, the trickle down effect was huge. Even if we chose to address different areas in free agency and the draft, our team would be stronger today.

This team has shown over the past decade that it overvalues other teams' free agents and our own old, decling veterans, while undervaluing our homegrown young guys. This team would be much younger, stronger, and in better salary cap shape right now if we had decided to pay guys like Antonio Pierce, Dockery, and Clark to stick around. All of them were the definition of "core skins" at the time and were offering us a hometown discount to stay. instead, we let them go and replaced them by signing older FA Vets, trading picks away for older vets (Kendall to replace Dockery), and spending high draft picks to replace them.[/quote]

Fair point

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

It's not just letting Ryan Clark go. Those mistakes happen from time to time w/ every team, well most teams.

It's then replacing him w/ AA. That's the kick in the a**. I said it before, but whoever made that decision should be fired immediately. VC made that decision by the way per VC.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

am i the only one that thinks jason taylor is bad luck

@ the dolphins 1-15

redskinz he got hurt, and only 3.5 sacks even though the previous year he had over 15...
and we were 8-8 after a 6-2 start with a rookie coach.. if we get him back i hope he gets 3x as much sacks!

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

I think Ryan Clark has improved considerably since leaving the redskins. That's not the same hard-hitting player in Pittsburgh that was playing in Washington.

I am wondering how did he improved so much. Remember the game with the chargers back in 2005, one of Clark's last games as a redskins.. [url=http://www.upi.com/topic/Ryan_Clark/20/]Ryan Clark - UPI.com[/url]

I think this was fresh in the redskins coaches' and fo's minds when they let him go. Who'd have known he would get this much better.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=horny4zorny-nohomo;523898]am i the only one that thinks jason taylor is bad luck

@ the dolphins 1-15

redskinz he got hurt, and only 3.5 sacks even though the previous year he had over 15...
and we were 8-8 after a 6-2 start with a rookie coach.. if we get him back i hope he gets 3x as much sacks![/quote]

if taylor comes back he will have atleast 10 sacks next year. there is no way he has another fluke injury like he did this year. taylor played well late in the year when he was healthy and used to playing in the 4-3 d.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

I'm tired of seeing other teams win with guys we drafted or let go. It's just sad.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=SmootSmack;523895]Dockery was asking for a shitload of money, if I recall correctly it was around a $17 million signing bonus. Interesting point about Thomas.



Who'd have known Archuleta would have been so terrible. But Williams insisted, I thought Arch was overrated but my gosh he was terrible. Even Gibbs, who could find good in just about everyone, thought he was a waste



Fair point[/quote]

I was excited about AA at the time, but evidently people who know more about football than me thought it was a horrible move and that he was a bad fit for our system. That point aside, everyone who had half a brain realized that we were giving him waaaaaay to big of a contract. his potential as a SS aside, he was just coming off a back injury and his own team didnt want him. He only got sniffs from a couple other teams and we give him the biggest contract ever for a safety?... we can blame Williams for wanting AA in the first place, but i'm pretty sure Williams had nothing to do with the obscene 30M/10Mgaraunteed we gave AA to sign. I place that squarely on our FO.

As far as Dockery goes, I seem to remember the skins and dockery were both squabbling over a difference in garaunteed money, but Dock wasnt even asking for more than 12M or so, which was entirely reasonable at the the time.... but once Dock hit free agency (where there were very few free agent guards available and the cap had just risen enormously), he ended up getting well more than he had ever dreamed - over 18M garaunteed if i remember correctly. If the skins had judged the market correctly, i am positive they would have locked up dockery when they had the chance.

My point is unless we're dealing with someone who is clearly being unreasonable, we should work to extend our own young guys when we can - if theyre good, of course.

For example, I think we should give Hall his 16M garaunteed before he has the opportunity to taste the market. He will make over 20 if he hits the open market. Is that alot? - yes. But he'll be the #2corner available and anyone who doesnt want to give that oakland dude 30M+ garaunteed would gladly pay Hall 20-22.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

I think if ryan clark was still with the redskins - he wouldn't be the player he is now. Just a feeling. What does this say (about the redskins)?... I don't exactly know.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=warriorzpath;523915]I think if ryan clark was still with the redskins - he wouldn't be the player he is now. Just a feeling. What does this say (about the redskins)?... I don't exactly know.[/quote]

All it says is people seem to think everyone on other teams are great and our players suck. It's all about perspective. And what kind of player is Clark right now anyway? He's a solid player, as he was here. It's not like he turned into Sean Taylor in Pittsburgh.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=Mattyk72;523917]All it says is people seem to think everyone on other teams are great and our players suck. It's all about perspective. And what kind of player is Clark right now anyway? He's a solid player, as he was here. It's not like he turned into Sean Taylor in Pittsburgh.[/quote]

Actually, judging by the jarring hits that he has made recently - especially the one on McGahee - I think he HAS turned into the Sean Taylor of Pittsburgh.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;523887]

When we let Clark go, he was a very good starting safety asking for a very reasonable amount of money. we had the cap space, but we let him go to sign Archuletta to a deal where his [I]garaunteed [/I]money was more than the [I]total [/I]contract money it would have cost to keep Clark.

If we had kept Clark, not only would we have not drafted Archuletta, but we also wouldnt have needed to draft Landry either. So thats not one, but TWO huge contracts we had to sign because we didnt pay Clark his worth. Those two contracts (and draft pick in the case of Landry) could have been used to upgrade other areas of our team. At the time, DL was a very pressing need and it still is now.

If we had kept Clark, we could have signed one of the many DT/DEs available in place of Archuletta) and drafted another in 2007 place of Landry. Taking it a step further, with our DL situation pretty much set, we wouldnt have traded next years 2nd rounder and 2010s 6th rounder to Miami last year for Jason Taylor when Phillip Daniels got hurt. We also wouldnt have traded a 7th to the Vikings for James.

Entering this years draft, our DL would be set and we would have picks in rounds 1, 2, 3, 5, 6 and 7.

Some can try to overlook snubbing ryan clark as being just one small mistake, but the way I see it, the trickle down effect was huge. Even if we chose to address different areas in free agency and the draft, our team would be stronger today.

This team has shown over the past decade that it overvalues other teams' free agents and our own old, decling veterans, while undervaluing our homegrown young guys. This team would be much younger, stronger, and in better salary cap shape right now if we had decided to pay guys like Antonio Pierce, Dockery, and Clark to stick around. All of them were the definition of "core skins" at the time and were offering us a hometown discount to stay. instead, we let them go and replaced them by signing older FA Vets, trading picks away for older vets (Kendall to replace Dockery), and spending high draft picks to replace them.[/quote]
Some really good points here dude and as unpopular as it is to say around these parts, this is yet another indication how Joe Gibbs' 4 years probably set us back at least 8. In his 4 years as team president, the triumverate of Gibbs, Cerrato and Snyder made our core much older, more stale and less cap solvent than the team he inherited in '04. As a result in '08 and seemingly in '09 we won't be players in the free agent market.

As you mentioned, roster holes created or not addressed during his tenure have forced us to address roles that we got worse at with their replacements (more on that in a minute) AND we don't have an adequate number of picks to replenish what we need.

3 of Gibbs/Vinny/Snyder's moves had a huge detrimental effect on our current roster and will linger for years.

1. Antonio Pierce-Biggest blunder of the Gibbs era outside of Mark Brunell. To let a young MLB entering his prime go to a division rival is unacceptable. Not only have we seen Pierce blossom into a Pro Bowler and win a SB in NY while we wasted 2 years on Lemar Marshall, we've also created a hole within a hole with Fletcher. Yes, he's been great since he got here but he's going to be 35 next year which means a high draft pick or significant money is going to have to be spent within the next 2 years which wouldn't have been necessary.

2. Fred Smoot-He was a much better CB his first time around than he is now. Simply re-signing him would have allowed us to address what was a pressing matter then, still is now and likely will be for the foreseeable future-rushing the passer. With Smoot and Springs settled at CB we would have had our pick of Shawn Merriman or DeMarcus Ware. Instead, in a top 10 filled with underachieving CB (Pac Man Jones, Antrell Rolle & Carlos Rogers) we got a decent #2 CB, which is exactly what we already had in Smoot.

3. Ryan Clark-We won't even get into the Ryan Clark/Adam Archuleta discussion, that's too easy. Let's look at what might have been in the draft. If we didn't have to replace Clark AND Archuleta with Landry in the 1st round numerous options could have presented themselves. We could have packaged the #6 pick with others to try to move up for Calvin Johnson, instead of signing London Fletcher we could have picked Patrick Willis or we could have been more aggressive and forward thinking and tried to actively shop the pick for suitors for Adrian Peterson or even (if Cerrato is true to 'best player available') drafted Peterson and had a hell of a backfield. Then again, if smarter moves were made previously we probably wouldn't have been picking 6th!

Of course hindsight is 20/20 and we can play the woulda, shoulda, coulda all night long. I'm no fan of Matt Millen, I mean Vinny Cerrato, but our current problems log back to our prior failings from our 'leadership' team.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=warriorzpath;523920]Actually, judging by the jarring hits that he has made recently - especially the one on McGahee - I think he HAS turned into the Sean Taylor of Pittsburgh.[/quote]

He was never afraid of throwing his body around when he was a Redskin either. Regardless he is still no #21, not even close.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=Mattyk72;523923]He was never afraid of throwing his body around when he was a Redskin either. Regardless he is still no #21, not even close.[/quote]

I disagree - as a redskin, he may have been looking to make some tackles, but now he's looking to put people out on the stretcher with the way he hits. There's a big difference.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=horny4zorny-nohomo;523898]am i the only one that thinks jason taylor is bad luck

@ the dolphins 1-15

redskinz he got hurt, and only 3.5 sacks even though the previous year he had over 15...
and we were 8-8 after a 6-2 start with a rookie coach.. if we get him back i hope he gets 3x as much sacks![/quote]

I think Taylor has bad luck in general. He goes from having a good season in a bad team to getting that calf injury that turned out to be more serious than it looked.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=warriorzpath;523926]I disagree - as a redskin, he may have been looking to make some tackles, but now he's looking to put people out on the stretcher with the way he hits. There's a big difference.[/quote]

Ryan Clark is [B]no[/B] ST. Sean had speed, range, instincts and hands, which Clark lacks in all. It was not just his hits that made him good, it was the ability to cover and catch ints ('07). Ryan Clark is good for a few hits but his cover skills and speed are very mediocore.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;523909]I'm tired of seeing other teams win with guys we drafted or let go. It's just sad.[/quote]

That happens to every team in the league, I mean look at Randy Moss, sucked in Oakland, did a helluva job in New England. Hall sucked in Oakland, did a good job for us. (And come to think of it, it could be way worst...we could be Oakland)

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=vallin21;523935]Ryan Clark is [B]no[/B] ST. Sean had speed, range, instincts and hands, which Clark lacks in all. It was not just his hits that made him good, it was the ability to cover and catch ints ('07). Ryan Clark is good for a few hits but his cover skills and speed are very mediocore.[/quote]

I wouldn't dare compare him to Sean Taylor - even if I thought he was a better player. The thought has never crossed my mind - (a major reason is out of respect).

Saying he's the Sean Taylor of Pittsburgh is putting his abilities in relation to his impact on his team in Pittsburgh (and his way of playing) and entirely different than making a comparison to THE Sean Taylor.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=Mattyk72;523917]All it says is people seem to think everyone on other teams are great and our players suck. It's all about perspective. And what kind of player is Clark right now anyway? He's a solid player, as he was here. It's not like he turned into Sean Taylor in Pittsburgh.[/quote]

He has improved alot and is one of the hardest hitters in the NFL right now. For the price, id take him over Landry in a heartbeat (assuming we had our #6overall pick back.)

This is somewhat unrelated, but I don't like Landry and Horton in their current roles. They both need to play SS. If we had the same corners we had now, i'd take Clark (FS) and Horton (SS) with our 2007 1st rounder back and used on a DE or DT over our current configuration and be deliriously happy. For what its worth, I'd also trade Horton for a 2nd rounder in a heartbeat if someone offered as much.

This team simly does not know how to select (and keep) the right defensive players and then use them effectively. The failure is two-fold. Its a failure in Vinny in giving Blache (and previously Williams) the right personnel for their system and its a failure in Blache (and previously Williams) in failing to adapt their system to fit the players Vinny gave them. Now that I think of it, the problems plagued our offense too. In the end, we've hired coaches to run a certain system, but we have never given them the right players to make their system work. Great coaches adapt their systems to their players, but it would be a whole lot easier for the FO to just pick the right players in the first place. its not that the FO NEVER picks the right players, it just does it about 50% of the time. thats simply not good enough.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;523939]He has improved alot and is one of the hardest hitters in the NFL right now. For the price, id take him over Landry in a heartbeat (assuming we had our #6overall pick back.)

This is somewhat unrelated, but I don't like Landry and Horton in their current roles. They both need to play SS. If we had the same corners we had now, i'd take Clark (FS) and Horton (SS) with our 2007 1st rounder back and used on a DE or DT over our current configuration and be deliriously happy. For what its worth, I'd also trade Horton for a 2nd rounder in a heartbeat if someone offered as much.

This team simly does not know how to select (and keep) the right defensive players and then use them effectively. The failure is two-fold. Its a failure in Vinny in giving Blache (and previously Williams) the right personnel for their system and its a failure in Blache (and previously Williams) in failing to adapt their system to fit the players Vinny gave them. Now that I think of it, the problems plagued our offense too. In the end, we've hired coaches to run a certain system, but we have never given them the right players to make their system work. Great coaches adapt their systems to their players, but it would be a whole lot easier for the FO to just pick the right players in the first place.[/quote]

Don't forget that things would be different in our defense if Sean Taylor was still alive. I would say that the team did know how to select a good player when they picked ST. I mean this conversation about Clark would not be happening if we had the ST/Landry combination at safety.

Also, people forget that Clark is playing alongside Polamalu, so I'm sure that adds to him (Clark) being a good player now.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=horny4zorny-nohomo;523898]am i the only one that thinks jason taylor is bad luck

@ the dolphins 1-15

redskinz he got hurt, and only 3.5 sacks even though the previous year he had over 15...
and we were 8-8 after a 6-2 start with a rookie coach.. if we get him back i hope he gets 3x as much sacks![/quote]

Isn't this the second time youve mentioned that? Was he bad luck in his 7winning seasons with the Dolphins with 5 playoff appearances? And where did you get over 15 sacks from?

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=SmootSmack;523948]Isn't this the second time youve mentioned that? Was he bad luck in his 7winning seasons with the Dolphins with 5 playoff appearances? [B]And where did you get over 15 sacks from?[/B][/quote]

Good observation SS, Taylor had 11 sacks his previous year.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=Ruhskins;523944]Don't forget that things would be different in our defense if Sean Taylor was still alive. I would say that the team did know how to select a good player when they picked ST. I mean this conversation about Clark would not be happening if we had the ST/Landry combination at safety.

Also, people forget that Clark is playing alongside Polamalu, so I'm sure that adds to him (Clark) being a good player now.[/quote]

Good point on Taylor, but we would have been facing a different set of problems if he hadnt been murdered. We likely wouldnt have been able to keep Taylor here... or if we did, it would have cost us bigtime and other areas of our team would have suffered. (on the other hand, it could have forced the FO to make some tough choices, like cutting some of our older vets last year and not extending guys like Thomas and Portis... but that would be giving Cerrato too much credit.)

anyway, just remember that Clark was a good player when he was playing alongside sean Taylor too. Its not like he THAT much better of a player now... he was always good. He fit the system we ran. I imagine one of the reasons we let him go was that we wanted to move Taylor to FS, but in doing so, we created a huge hole that idiotboy Cerrato decided to fill by signing ArchDeluxe to a ridiculous contract - then when that was a colossal failure, we overcompensated by picking Landry.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;523966]Good point on Taylor, but we would have been facing a different set of problems if he hadnt been murdered. We likely wouldnt have been able to keep Taylor here... or if we did, it would have cost us bigtime and other areas of our team would have suffered. (on the other hand, it could have forced the FO to make some tough choices, like cutting some of our older vets last year and not extending guys like Thomas and Portis... but that would be giving Cerrato too much credit.)

anyway, just remember that Clark was a good player when he was playing alongside sean Taylor too. Its not like he THAT much better of a player now... he was always good. He fit the system we ran. I imagine one of the reasons we let him go was that we wanted to move Taylor to FS, but in doing so, we created a huge hole that idiotboy Cerrato decided to fill by signing ArchDeluxe to a ridiculous contract - then when that was a colossal failure, we overcompensated by picking Landry.[/quote]
I dislike Cerrato as much as the next guy, but blaming Arch Deluxe on him is a mistake. Gregg Williams was the one pulling for Archuleta.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

we blew that one antonio peirce was another mistake

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;523939]He has improved alot and is one of the hardest hitters in the NFL right now. For the price, id take him over Landry in a heartbeat (assuming we had our #6overall pick back.)

This is somewhat unrelated, but I don't like Landry and Horton in their current roles. They both need to play SS. If we had the same corners we had now, i'd take Clark (FS) and Horton (SS) with our 2007 1st rounder back and used on a DE or DT over our current configuration and be deliriously happy. For what its worth, I'd also trade Horton for a 2nd rounder in a heartbeat if someone offered as much.

This team simly does not know how to select (and keep) the right defensive players and then use them effectively. The failure is two-fold. Its a failure in Vinny in giving Blache (and previously Williams) the right personnel for their system and its a failure in Blache (and previously Williams) in failing to adapt their system to fit the players Vinny gave them. Now that I think of it, the problems plagued our offense too. In the end, we've hired coaches to run a certain system, but we have never given them the right players to make their system work. Great coaches adapt their systems to their players, but it would be a whole lot easier for the FO to just pick the right players in the first place. its not that the FO NEVER picks the right players, it just does it about 50% of the time. thats simply not good enough.[/quote]

Clark is a solid player but nothing special. This is just another example of people overrating other team's players while underrating our own.

Correct me if I'm wrong but over the past few years the D has pretty much carried this team, so they must be doing something right on that side of the ball. It's amazing they can continue to overcome these horrible personnel decisions and bad coaching. :rolleyes:

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

[quote=Mattyk72;524039]Clark is a solid player but nothing special. This is just another example of people overrating other team's players while underrating our own.

Correct me if I'm wrong but over the past few years the D has pretty much carried this team, so they must be doing something right on that side of the ball. It's amazing they can continue to overcome these horrible personnel decisions and bad coaching. :rolleyes:[/quote]

Agreed Matty. It's not like Clark left, the defense fell apart, and they've been at the bottom of NFL defenses. Once again, some posts here are just beating that dead horse of bashing the front office on things that happened in the past.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

Everyone needs to get over Ryan Clark being let go. The guy is not even a pro-bowl caliber player. In fact in his last season as a Redskin, his signature play was being stiff-armed to the ground by Tomlinson on LT's way to a Td run in overtime that sealed a vistory for the Chargers. I'll take a young Horton over an aging Clark any day.

BTW- There is no way the organization would have let Sean Taylor go if he were still alive. Portis and Moss would have helped prevent it. Danny would have made him the highest paid safety in history, deservingly so.

Re: Sometimes Its Who You Keep Not Who You Sign
 

I think the one point that can't be desputed is the fact that while our defense didn't fall apart, it didn't become dominate either. We have had to double or in some cases triple our efforts to fill holes we had already plugged solidly.

The FO was in such a hurry to win now that it influenced terrible draft and trade stratedgies. And now the mistake(s) have finally been realized. So what will FO do now? Well basically the same mistakes but not for the sake of the instant win, but for trying to play mistake catch up.

Because desicions on JT and others have cost us to give up draft pics, VC will now try to compensate by trading down. Again not being in position to comfortably pick from our current slots. Probably signing guys we would have normally pass on if we still had the resorces too.

So yeah Clark leaving didn't kill our D. But just imagine how much better we would be with him. Not to mention the domino effect choices like this cause.

Vinny still has some fall out to deal with

The FO needs to develop patience and forsight