Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

My initial impressions of the offense are it's definitely a fast tempo based offense. In and out of the huddle, very little pre-snap motion, and plenty of different formations and looks. It's not an offense designed to confuse the defense at the LOS, it's an offense designed to get into a groove quickly and it's one that will attack. I also liked what I saw in the running game, and I liked Zorn's balance in playcalling. What did you think?

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

Hmm..I think we saw a base offense. You know, just to get everyone comfortable. I think we'll see more pre-snap movement, but nothing like we saw with Saunders. You'll probably see the TE adjusting and in motion more.

I did notice that Campbell's stance wasn't as crouched under center, as Zorn said he would change when he took over.

You know we've talked a lot about Campbell learning a new offense again, this and that. But at some point, after 8 OCs, some of this stuff has to overlap. What I'm saying is football is football, and I'm not giving Campbell too much of a pass this year. I think he'll pick up this system just fine and roll with it.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

I thought the tempo was a lot quicker. I think that stood out more than anything. Campbell made some quick decisions and got the ball out in a hurry. You could tell that Campbell looked much more comfortable in the pocket. Could it be that WCO is a just a natural fit for him? I know its only one game, but damn did he look good out there.

I was also impressed with the running game. It was all a down hill style of attack. The zone blocking scheme I think is getting better now that we've been running for a couple of years now. We will definitely see more of that. If we do, CP will have a great year (possibly a career year if he stays healthy).

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

I posted this just now in another thread but it is applicable here too...

Besides the good outings of a number of players, it looks like the players REALLY like playing for Zorn. Maybe i'm jumping to conclusions, but it looks like they want to have some fun this year. Anyone else get that feeling?

You are always going to get player-speak when they talk about their coach, but it actually looks like they like Zorn and his relaxed attitude. This year could be a special year if we can get some wins early.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

Another thing to take note of, the TEs had eight receptions between them. Pretty darn good.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

[quote=redsk1;461410]I posted this just now in another thread but it is applicable here too...

Besides the good outings of a number of players, it looks like the players REALLY like playing for Zorn. Maybe i'm jumping to conclusions, but it looks like they want to have some fun this year. Anyone else get that feeling?

You are always going to get player-speak when they talk about their coach, but it actually looks like they like Zorn and his relaxed attitude. This year could be a special year if we can get some wins early.[/quote]

That is a good observation. It did look like the team is having fun. The sideline reaction of Richardson's touchdown interception was special. Also too, the respect given to Hall of Famer's Darrell Green and Art Monk by the current players was also special. I'm glad the team sealed Redskin weekend with a victory.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;461407]Hmm..I think we saw a base offense. You know, just to get everyone comfortable. I think we'll see more pre-snap movement, but nothing like we saw with Saunders. You'll probably see the TE adjusting and in motion more.

I did notice that Campbell's stance wasn't as crouched under center, as Zorn said he would change when he took over.

You know we've talked a lot about Campbell learning a new offense again, this and that. But at some point, after 8 OCs, some of this stuff has to overlap. What I'm saying is football is football, and I'm not giving Campbell too much of a pass this year. I think he'll pick up this system just fine and roll with it.[/QUOTE]

Good post and observations. I do, however, think the 8 OCs has stunted JC's growth. A QB can look a lot better if he has an additional fraction of a second to pass because he is reacting instead of thinking.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

[quote=redsk1;461410]I posted this just now in another thread but it is applicable here too...

Besides the good outings of a number of players, it looks like the players REALLY like playing for Zorn. Maybe i'm jumping to conclusions, but it looks like they want to have some fun this year. Anyone else get that feeling?

You are always going to get player-speak when they talk about their coach, but it actually looks like they like Zorn and his relaxed attitude. This year could be a special year if we can get some wins early.[/quote]
I agree that the sidelines and the starters seemed to be into and injoying the game. I guess its always more fun to watch the new guys when its preseason. I was impressed with how Zorn handled himself because these preason games are also important for him to ajust into the head coaching role.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins;461412]That is a good observation. It did look like the team is having fun. The sideline reaction of Richardson's touchdown interception was special. Also too, the respect given to Hall of Famer's Darrell Green and Art Monk by the current players was also special. I'm glad the team sealed Redskin weekend with a victory.[/quote]

Watching all of the veterans on the sidelines celebrating for Richardson's touchdown was my favorite part of the night. Many of the Colt's vets didn't even make the trip to Canton, meanwhile, our guys can't even stay off the sidelines they are so excited for this team!

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

There are many reasons why this was meaningless, which we are all aware.
BUT, what I was really struck by is the apparent comfort of our Offense ( to this point) with the new scheme.
I always felt the team had problems embracing Al's system, (at least to it's fullest). it seemed way complicated, and weighed down by it's own...........brilliance? This seems to have the potential for simple.......brillance?
FAST and EFFECTIVE

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

[QUOTE=redsk1;461410]I posted this just now in another thread but it is applicable here too...

Besides the good outings of a number of players, it looks like the players REALLY like playing for Zorn. Maybe i'm jumping to conclusions, but it looks like they want to have some fun this year. Anyone else get that feeling?

You are always going to get player-speak when they talk about their coach, but it actually looks like they like Zorn and his relaxed attitude. This year could be a special year if we can get some wins early.[/QUOTE]

I feel the same way. You hear the term "Player's Coach" thrown around so much. But here it really does apply I believe.

I'm actually very excited about it. They were talking about it on 980 this morning. Zorn looks very calm and relaxed on the sidelines and the players look like they really respect them. It's kind of a fresh change from the Gibbs regime where everything was very strict. It seems like this is more of a new school approach. I don't know, I just get that feeling.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

[quote=12thMan;461407]You know we've talked a lot about Campbell learning a new offense again, this and that. But at some point, after 8 OCs, some of this stuff has to overlap. What I'm saying is football is football, and I'm not giving Campbell too much of a pass this year. I think he'll pick up this system just fine and roll with it.[/quote]

Good point, and I agree. But last night was positive and it gave me a little bit of hope...

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

Hard not to like what we saw overall. My only real concern is pass protection. Not that we were horrible, but I didn't expect jansen and co to get beaten for any sacks against their backups. I know they only gave up the one, but they got creamed on both sides on that play. Run blocking looked good. I'm damn excited to see what we have in these tall fast rookie wideouts.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

Loved the tempo. I thought our mix between short/intermediate/downfield was particularly encouraging though I am sure some of the more aggressive stuff was due to Colt being a slinger playing scrubs. I was definitely stoked about our running. I know they said it was the same run attack but it seemed more dynamic to me. Not so much handoff, 3 yards and a cloud dust but some more zone blocking and using the younger guys more athletically.

In particular I loved the use of the WRs downfield in between the hashes. That's aggressive. I did think our line looked only ok and some guys looked downright craptastic but I have faith Bugel can get them tightened up.

All in all it was encouraging but Like 12th said it was only a base offense and it wont work against starters for a whole game so we don't much more than we did before other than that the tempo is up there and the players seem to like the offense. I think that'll help that are excited to be doing the things they are doing.

Another thing to me was our discipline. Not a whole lot of penalties along the line which can be expected at this point.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

I know it was just the HOF Game and it was the first preseason game AND the Colts didn't play a lot of guys, but I felt like that offense could be something special. Campbell looked about as good as I've seen him, no incompletions will do that and Colt ripped up the scrubs. I will say, I thought Collins looked bad, accurate when throwing the ball, but a bit indecisive.

I don't know why, I have a really good feeling about this team, right now. I'm hoping that Jim Zorn can become the kind of coach who sticks around for 10 years or so and that Jason Campbell is forever tied to him. The way Favre and Holmgren still are. I would love to see that happen, the Skins can't keep running through coaches and players the way they have since Snyder took over. I'm hoping that Zorn, Campbell, and Portis can be guys that this team builds around and this team returns to sustained respectability and occasional glory in the form of Super Bowl wins. Gibbs put them on the right track and Snyder is starting to "grow up" as an owner and it's up to Zorn to take them to the next level, imo.

Just so we're clear, I didn't come to all of these conclusions based on the HOF game, I've been thinking this for a little while. I'm really thinking/hoping that the Zorn regime can be great.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

agree with you all that the skins O worked at a nice pace and the players were into the game which should suggest they are buying into zorn's attitude and system.

i think it was sonny on radio who said one plus with zorn is that there is "no book" out on him so opposing coaches dont know what his tendencies are. good point, makes sense to me.

What a special start for our skins and the pre-season hasnt even started yet! i have not been this into a preseason game since spurrier's first season when we stomped the 49ers.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

The thing that made the biggest impression in my mind was the excitment leve. It was just a preaseason game (and the first one at that) and after the Brennan through that touchdown players were jumping up and down, greeting on the field. It was not just the younger players it was Clinton Portis leading the charge, with Springs and Smoot out there it was cool to see, there was a different enthusiasm level on that field.

Campbell looked smooth, and distrubuted the ball well to various recievers. He kept the ball up high, got back quick and delivered it quickly. There were no miss steps, no hesitation, just smooth. Brennan also looked comfortable but boy his throwing style is awkward, low and side armed in a way, but dead on the money.

Stephon Heyer got owned a few times, (once for the sack on Campbell) but the run blocking was tight across the line.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

i was was amazed at the few catches that fred davis made that guy with cooley are gonna kill people underneath that guy is huge!

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

I absolutely loved the two TE sets and the trips WR packages! Rock is the man, but he is a third stringer, and Mason was a beast but again, not even a third stringer. With Yoder/Davis and Cooley on one side can anyone imagine what Portis is capable of? And on pass plays we will have a guaranteed check-down reciever in Portis and/or Cooley. Its almost fool proof. Also, with the trips WR packages we will have the opportunity to show off our burners, our slots, or our TE or RB on the weak side. I like his style and he really didnt give much away. I cannot wait to see what Zorn has in store for us!

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

On certain things, you can't put any stock in the preseason. For example, how free our WRs were running, even ARE on that TD pass. If Bob Sanders was playing I highly doubt that happens.

But certain things you can judge and put a lot of stock into, and I thought Campbell graded really well:

- In Zorn's offense, which is basically very similar to Holmgren's, you look for the QB to drop back, plant, and throw. If the throw doesn't come out right away, you look for the QB to make his progressions quickly. I saw Campbell move his head from target to target very quickly. His decision making seems quick already. That's a sign that sacks (and hence turnovers) could be lower this season.

- Campbell's most impressive throw wasn't the floating TD to ARE. It was the little 7-yard hitch to Moss. Campbell dropped back, planted on the 3rd step, and gunned the ball out. Moss hadn't even broken his route off yet. When he did, he turned around and the ball was in his gut. This was despite pretty tight coverage from the CB. The guy wasn't playing press, but he wasn't giving a cushion either. JC quickly read that Moss was not getting pressed, hence his route would be clean, and when he broke off the route he'd create adequate separation. This showed excellent rapport with Moss, good timing, and that Campbell has great confidence in his reads already. While the aggressive style of play is great and everything, I'm more concerned about our ability to sustain drives. Quick decisions on quick-hitting passes are paramount to moving the chains in the WCO. Well-executed.

- I thought our starting offensive line run-blocked well, even if they didn't pass protect that well.

- I think we're deep. Our reserves kicked the crap out of the Colt's reserves. I'm not going to say our reserves can beat other teams' starters, but at a lot of spots we can get by if we get hurt.

- I don't care about Brennan's stats because it came against chumps. But man was he accurate. It's hard to teach accuracy, technique helps, but Colt just has a knack for getting the ball in there. Yeah his WRs were open, but he was still hitting them right in stride in very catchable locations, and fitting it into a few tighter windows. We got no sense of how good his decision making was, because it's easy to make decisions against chumps. But we did see accuracy, which is a very good building block.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

[QUOTE=bridaman51;461423]

[B]Stephon Heyer got owned a few times, (once for the sack on Campbell[/B]) but the run blocking was tight across the line.[/QUOTE]

i have to respectfully disagree with you here. Heyer's man tried to go inside on him and he stopped him so the DE then went outside (which is what a tackle wants, to push the guy outside or past the pocket). [B]Jansen was the one who got burned[/B] and it was his man that forced campbell to step to his left outside the pocket where heyers guy was.

i watched it a bunch of times but i could be wrong.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

1. Campbell having to learn so many different offenses and his familiarity with the WCO is paying off. I think that's why Collins is struggling, this is the first new offense he's had to learn in 10 years.

2. The tempo was great. Collins struggled when there was pressure as he is unable to evade pressure at all. Campbell looked like he knew where everybody was and quickly made decisions in the pocket, Collins didn't have that same feel.

3. Good run/pass mix, good control by Zorn, and the team looked like they were having fun. Great start, especially if Heyer and Wade only have sprains and not tears.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

I'm just glad we arent running that stupid WR screen on every first down, like we have done for the past 2-3 years.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

overall i liked the energy the team showed... the offense for the most part looked sharp.the rookies looked good also...

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

[QUOTE=over the mountain;461432]i have to respectfully disagree with you here. Heyer's man tried to go inside on him and he stopped him so the DE then went outside (which is what a tackle wants, to push the guy outside or past the pocket). [B]Jansen was the one who got burned[/B] and it was his man that forced campbell to step to his left outside the pocket where heyers guy was.

i watched it a bunch of times but i could be wrong.[/QUOTE]

Doesn't Heyer play RT -- same as Jansen? I could have missed it, but I don't remember seeing them both on the field at the same time.

Anyways, I do remember Jansen getting beat (not sure if a sack resulted) on the inside. He got the guy to the outside, and then fell over when the DE moved back inside.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

Heyer played some LT last night

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

I was definitely pleased with our performance overall. I want to make sure we keep things rather close to the vest though. I don't want us to show all or cards too early. Zorn seems like he has a lot of good ideas of how to use the talent on this team, but there's a fine balance between showing it all on day one of preseason (a la Spurrier) or waiting approximately 24 regular season games (a la Gibbs/Saunders).

That said, I don't have many complaints, if any. I thought Jansen looked a little off at times. To be expected though coming off a major injury for a minor game. I was a bit disappointed by Todd Collins. He looked a little lost out there. I've been convinced that he'd have no problem learning the WCO, but maybe it will take a bit more time than I thought.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

At a team level, the thing that impressed me most was the crispness and the discipline. This was the first preseason game and we didn't have a penalty until the 2nd quarter. That says a lot to me, because one worry with a "players' coach" is that people will take a casual approach and not be focused. That was most certainly not the case. We played against one of the best coached teams in the league (and one of the classiest from top to bottom) and looked just as good, IMO, in terms of professionalism. That comes from the coach, and from the players being psyched to play for the coach. We'll see how it all plays out, but that was a good sign.

As for playcalling, it's early, no doubt, but I loved the pace and I loved the 2 TE stuff. Seems like for years teams have used that on us but we've never struck back. With Cooley and Davis we're going to gobble up some yards. And that frees up everything else. (Davis looked good, btw.) Hard to judge much else, given the circumstances.

Remember, folks: it's VERY early and we are going to have set backs, trials, missteps, etc. We've got to give this thing time to gel, and we may have something good. But be ready for ups and downs. That's the nature of the game.

PS Very psyched to see how Zorn continues to coach and teach the QBs all game long. I am very confident that he'll correct any problems with JC et al. And if you have good QB play you can go far.

PPS How many of you screamed in sheer joy at the TV when we hit that first TD? Man, it's good to have some productive skins offense!

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

It definately seemed a lot faster paced than the past years which I like. I think this will be a pretty exciting offensive year for us and this offense can be effective.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

I just heard B. Mitch on John Thompson, and they pretty much agreed that this is a different team under Zorn; in terms of how they approach the preseason in general is what B.Mitch and Thompson pointed out.

B.Mitch said that under the "previous administration" (I chuckled) that the team approached preseason as if it was "a piece of gum stuck to the bottom of their shoe." This year, he said you can tell this team is preparing differently and they want to strike the right tone early. He also said he was impressed with Rock and Mason.

Thompson, too, pointed out how it's important for Zorn to get out to a good start so both the fans and the players will have a comfort level with him from the start.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

Can you believe we went a whole game without a false start or a delay of game. Utterly Amazing, i love Zorn already.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

It's preseason.......let's talk after first win........in regular season

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

I was very critical of this hire but I must say I'm very very impressed with Jim Zorn. I know it's only one pre season game but how come I get the feeling that we're going to see a lot less delay of game/false start / illegal shift penaties. No more calling TO's on 4th down to kick FG's. So far so good.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

I really like the formations and the routes the WR run. The blocking for the RB looks great. With healthy receivers and running backs, this offense looks incredible.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

[quote=DarkKnight;461508]It's preseason.......let's talk after first win........in regular season[/quote]

Puppy kicker.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

We seemed like a contemporary team the other night rather than a team stuck in a time warp. The players had a different swagger on offense, an enthusiasm not seen in years. Zorn called a nice game, I like that we weren't painfully predictable, yet only ran a few plays and formations (2 tight, 3 WR, Bunch). As the local media beats into our heads, there is a lot to learn and the offense is a 'work in progress', I think we're going to be just fine when we start the season.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

[quote=RedskinRat;461683]Puppy kicker.[/quote]


well put....LOL!!!! based on what i saw at the HOF game is that it was a great start... no stupid wr screens and no delay of game penalties. All and all it was the start Zorn needed.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

Aside from the actual playbook, I was blown away from the accuracy and efficiency from all three QBs. Coach Zorn seems to know how to work on fundamentals with the QBs. There is no other way to explain a total of 2 incomplete passes between all 3 QBs (won't count Devine, he won't be on the team). When Campbell threw passes, his arm had that same hitch we saw in the videos of drills Zorn was running. It was a textbook throwing motion in a real game situation. Even Colt Brennan, despite throwing into double and triple coverage had pinpoint accuracy. He's never faced NFL defenders before but you couldn't tell. You can make an excuse with how far down on depth charts those Colts defenders were, but, compare how well Zorn's QBs looked compared to the Colts' QBs. Lorenzen looked horrid. How he was ever a backup for the Giants is a mystery to me. He should be cut from the roster pretty soon. Grey looked good though and could make a case for starting ahead of Sorgi, although I doubt it. Sorgi is like Todd Collins, a safe veteran.

Beyond playcalling, I believe Zorn will make his players better, especially QBs.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

I like that the QB gets rid of the ball quickly. I do not like it when a QB holds on the ball too long. I am very happy with the offense system and the players.
The defense worries me. Our depth is a serious concern. I am also really concerned about our ability to stop the run. Many people are so happy about our improved pass rush, but if we do not stop the run first and foremost it will be a very long season. Who cares how many sacks we get if opponents are getting five yards a run.

Re: Let's talk Zorn/offense
 

The run D looked pretty good early on the other night considering a lot of the starters weren't in there.