Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

An article by CBS sportsline that talks about their oppinions on Joe Gibbs.

[url=http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10514290/rss]National Football League - CBSSports.com[/url]

They bring up some valid points.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

Those guy are IDIOTS!! He should do neither, we need him to come back and finish the job. If next year is like this, then he can retire.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

With coaching, the question for me always comes down to this: is there someone available who can do the job better?

I'm up in the air on that. In order to do better next season, I think a degree of continuity is required amongst the coaching staff. If GW takes over as head coach, and Saunders stays as OC, then I'd probably be alright with it. But if we're talking about bringing in a Bill Cowher, or someone else who will likely totally revamp the staff and the offensive and defensive systems, then that's foolish.

Gibbs definitely doesn't seem to have his act together. How good can the communication process between Gibbs and GW be if Gibbs doesn't even know about the 10-man tribute? How can an NFL coach not know the two timeout rule on icing kickers? How can somebody with such a killer instinct in his first stint play things so conservative now in the 2nd half of games?

That said, I think he's still probably one of the better coaches in the league, even though he's clearly not what he was. So getting rid of him is not the answer for me, unless the organization REALLY thinks GW could do a better job. Hiring someone else would be the worst case scenario for me.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

Both Prisco (overall MORON) and Judge are basing their argument almost entirely on overall record. And that's not totally wrong. Bottom line, as far as W's and L's are concerned Gibbs hasn't gotten it done this time around.

At least Judge can bring up how hard he's worked. At least Judge can reinforce his overall record argument by referencing HOW we've lost and keep losing these agonizing, close games. That said, I'm not sure where he's going by calling us "unfixable." We lose shitty, but I think we're on our way to being fixed.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;389371]Gibbs definitely doesn't seem to have his act together. How good can the communication process between Gibbs and GW be if Gibbs doesn't even know about the 10-man tribute? How can an NFL coach not know the two timeout rule on icing kickers? How can somebody with such a killer instinct in his first stint play things so conservative now in the 2nd half of games?[/QUOTE]

Has anybody given it some thought as to what's going on in Joe's head? Grandson diagnosed with lukemia, team swamped with key injuries, your best player gets murdered in the middle of the season. How would most of you guys that criticize Gibbs react if that happen to you? To boot a lot of the media and fans chant Joe must go. I think this man deserves more than a break, such as letting him fulfill his contract. You can't compare Joe with Cowher, Williams, Phillips, etc. none of those guys could do what Joe has done in his career even if it was in the past. We all wanted him to comeback? Didn't we? Then lets give him the decency of fulfilling his contract and then post this kind of posts if he fails.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;389381]Has anybody given it some thought as to what's going on in Joe's head? Grandson diagnosed with lukemia, team swamped with key injuries, your best player gets murdered in the middle of the season. How would most of you guys that criticize Gibbs react if that happen to you? To boot a lot of the media and fans chant Joe must go. I think this man deserves more than a break, such as letting him fulfill his contract. You can't compare Joe with Cowher, Williams, Phillips, etc. [B]none of those guys could do what Joe has done in his career even if it was in the past.[/B] We all wanted him to comeback? Didn't we? Then lets give him the decency of fulfilling his contract and then post this kind of posts if he fails.[/quote]

Re the bolded part, Joe Gibbs has shown that he can't even do what Joe Gibbs has done in the past.

You keep harping on the great accomplishments of Joe Gibbs, but with four seasons in the books, proof's in the pudding at this point.

Now I'm not saying can him now, but I'm only saying that because I don't see candidates out there that would be a better fit or would do a better job. By default, that means I still hold him in decent regard to other coaches available.

But you're giving him carte blanche because he won Super Bowls in the 80s and 90s. I love him for those wins, but he has proven to be mediocre in the last four years. While I love looking back on the past, I'm not thrilled with the prospect of seeing the team mired in mediocrity for the foreseeable future.

In the end, I'm on the same page as you, but for different reasons. Keep him next year for continuity's sake. But I'm not super thrilled with him as our head coach right now.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[QUOTE=SFREDSKIN;389381]Has anybody given it some thought as to what's going on in Joe's head? Grandson diagnosed with lukemia, team swamped with key injuries, your best player gets murdered in the middle of the season. How would most of you guys that criticize Gibbs react if that happen to you? To boot a lot of the media and fans chant Joe must go. I think this man deserves more than a break, such as letting him fulfill his contract. You can't compare Joe with Cowher, Williams, Phillips, etc. none of those guys could do what Joe has done in his career even if it was in the past. We all wanted him to comeback? Didn't we? Then lets give him the decency of fulfilling his contract and then post this kind of posts if he fails.[/QUOTE]

I love Gibbs. The biggest reason (next to my brother) that I became and remain a Redskins fan. However, apart from the murder of Taylor, who are we to say other coaches don't deal with adversity in their personal lives beyond injuries on the field? Take Tony Dungy losing his son to a suicide for example, or Andy Reid's issues with his kids.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;389392]I love Gibbs. The biggest reason (next to my brother) that I became and remain a Redskins fan. However, apart from the murder of Taylor, who are we to say other coaches don't deal with adversity in their personal lives beyond injuries on the field? Take Tony Dungy losing his son to a suicide for example, or Andy Reid's issues with his kids.[/quote]

Yeah, I mean who in life hasn't or won't go through adversity off the field/off the job at some point in their life? I don't think we should give the man a pass just because he's dealt with some tough times. I'm not saying Taylor's murder and his grandson's leukemia aren't awful things, but I don't think we can make excuses for his performance as a head coach because of them.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;389380]That said, I'm not sure where he's going by calling us "unfixable."[/QUOTE]

Either Prisco is a total idiot for saying we are "unfixable," or he is inarticulate because he doesn't really mean what he writes.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

He'll probably hang it up after his contract expires (I'm not gonna act like I know when that is cause I don't, so someone please inform me of when it does). I'm not a backer of Gibbs 2.0 but there's no denying that Gibbs knows his stuff. Synder grew up a Skins fan so there's no chance in hell of him kicking Gibbs to the curb. Gibbs is going to hang it up when he knows he has nothing left to give as a coach or when he feels he's done an adequate job. So there's no point in what if's.

Gibbs is here to stay.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;389396]Either Prisco is a total idiot for saying we are "unfixable," or he is inarticulate because he doesn't really mean what he writes.[/quote]

It was actually Clark Judge who called us "unfixable." Which is kind of surprising because he makes a pretty decent argument right up until that point. It's something I would expect to hear from Prisco.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=GMScud;389395]Yeah, I mean who in life hasn't or won't go through adversity off the field/off the job at some point in their life? I don't think we should give the man a pass just because he's dealt with some tough times. I'm not saying Taylor's murder and his grandson's leukemia aren't awful things, but I don't think we can make excuses for his performance as a head coach because of them.[/quote]

In fact, I'll go one step further, if little Taylor's health is expected to be a continuing problem, and Joe Gibbs is having trouble dealing with the adversity, then that's MORE reason to get rid of him, not less reason.

That said, I don't think Gibbs is having trouble dealing with adversity at all. I think he's great at that part. He's great at focusing, and he's FANTASTIC at bringing men together through a tragedy like the Taylor situation. But he has not been good at establishing a running game that can run out the clock in the second half like he prefers to, and he has not been good at adjusting his strategy in the second half to make up for the fact that his run game isn't great. He also has not been good with clock/game management. In the end, those are the things contributing to our 5-7 record, not his grandson. He's trying his damndest, and he's focusing all he can. In the end, it's not getting done.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Schneed10;389401]In fact, I'll go one step further, if little Taylor's health is expected to be a continuing problem, and Joe Gibbs is having trouble dealing with the adversity, then that's MORE reason to get rid of him, not less reason.

That said, I don't think Gibbs is having trouble dealing with adversity at all. I think he's great at that part. He's great at focusing, and he's FANTASTIC at bringing men together through a tragedy like the Taylor situation. But he has not been good at establishing a running game that can run out the clock in the second half like he prefers to, and he has not been good at adjusting his strategy in the second half to make up for the fact that his run game isn't great. He also has not been good with clock/game management. In the end, those are the things contributing to our 5-7 record, not his grandson. He's trying his damndest, and he's focusing all he can. In the end, it's not getting done.[/quote]

Agreed. And the thing is, he may be dealing with the adversity wonderfully as a man. But football coaches are measured with wins and losses. So people may say he couldn't cope. It may not be true, but it's all about those wins.

Your sig is funny by the way.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

I do want to make sure I'm being fair to Gibbs. He's had to deal with some ridiculous injuries. Jansen and Thomas are the biggest, IMO. They're absolutely huge. With those two guys playing, I'll bet we have enough of a run game in the 2nd half to win at least two of those games in which we saw a collapse. So that explains some of it.

That said, the game management and the 2nd half adjustments have not been good. Without Jansen and Thomas, knowing our running game isn't great, we should be adjusting strategy. And since he's team president as well, he's responsible for finding depth that can fill in adequately. You have to do one of two things, either acquire the depth necessary in the offseasons to keep running the ball in the 2nd half when your star linemen get hurt, or shift your strategy. If you can't succeed at either one, then you're failing. Hence 5-7.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

Has anyone ever thought that it isn't entirely Gibbs fault. I mean, who turns over the ball constantly in the final quarters of EVERY game??? The players!!! lol.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;389395]Yeah, I mean who in life hasn't or won't go through adversity off the field/off the job at some point in their life? I don't think we should give the man a pass just because he's dealt with some tough times. I'm not saying Taylor's murder and his grandson's leukemia aren't awful things, but I don't think we can make excuses for his performance as a head coach because of them.[/QUOTE]

We were better off with Bill Musgrave :)

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Schneed10;389371]....I'm up in the air on that. In order to do better next season, I think a degree of continuity is required amongst the coaching staff. If GW takes over as head coach, and Saunders stays as OC, then I'd probably be alright with it.......

Gibbs definitely doesn't seem to have his act together. How good can the communication process between Gibbs and GW be if Gibbs doesn't even know about the 10-man tribute? How can an NFL coach not know the two timeout rule on icing kickers? How can somebody with such a killer instinct in his first stint play things so conservative now in the 2nd half of games?
[/quote]
Obviously the Head Coach takes the heat when a team is losing, especially the way we have since 2005 (excluding the 6 game run at the end of 2005). But I think a majority of the blame is on the coordinators. IMO since Gibbs returned he has been more of a "manager" similar to what he was doing in NASCAR. I think he has "empowered" his coordinators (not sure what level with Saunders) and they have made bad decisions and not produced. Gibbs is not going to throw these guys under the bus even if it means he retires because of their poor performance. Regarding the 10-man tribute, GW should have made sure Gibbs knew what was happening, if he didn't, it is disrespectful and shows what type of ego GW has. I don't think many of us would make a major decision that would effect our companies, in the public eye, without our management knowing what we were planning to do, if we did we wouldn't be employed very long. I also know for a fact that coordinators at the high school or college level wouldn't make this type of move without the Head Coach knowing about it.

I've said this before, if Gibbs steps away he should move into the front office and get rid of GW. Bring in a new HC (defensive minded) and give Saunders a year with complete control of the offense as OC. If Saunders doesn't like it then get a new OC also. Continuity is important if you see the organization moving in a postive direction with the right building blocks in place. With Gibbs off the sidelines and GW / Saunders running the show, IMO that would be a step backwards.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

if this was anyone else we'd all be calling for his head. i love gibbs to death but enough is enough. i hope he retires. it's almost getting painful to watch. he's just not a good nfl coach anymore. sometimes the truth hurts.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;389430]if this was anyone else we'd all be calling for his head. i love gibbs to death but enough is enough. i hope he retires. he's just not a good nfl coach anymore. sometimes the truth hurts.[/QUOTE]

I think the biggest problem is that no one can pinpoint what exactly he does. I mean he says he doesn't call the plays on offense, other than 4th down decisions. Yet people are on his case all the time about playcalling. He has input on defense and special teams but it's more of a consultancy role.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;389442]I think the biggest problem is that no one can pinpoint what exactly he does. I mean he says he doesn't call the plays on offense, other than 4th down decisions. Yet people are on his case all the time about playcalling. He has input on defense and special teams but it's more of a consultancy role.[/quote]

Here is where he does or could have input. Sending in that silly ass jumbo package that never ever works on the goaline or in the redzone. None of the guys on the field are a threat to score except Cooley and the RB. As the head coach, and a man who was king, I mean king of halftime adjustments and innovative offense, he should change it up and try something else. There is no excuse for that. Bringing in all the heavy guys is just bunching up everything and the line can't create any holes. Yet he still sends it in, or even worse allows it to be sent in. That's just dumb ass coaching. If I could pin point one area where he has failed this is it. It has costed us games this year and he has not made any adjustments at all.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

Prisco makes the understatement that if it weren't for his name our head coach would be on the firing line. That's retarded IMO - if our head coach were anyone BUT Gibbs his ass would be long gone, and that's true not only w/ Danny boy but probably with any team owner in the league. Over his second stint Gibbs has lost 18 games in which he led at halftime, which is 7 more than any other coach in the league. Big money acquisitions have come up bust about half the time, putting the organization in salary cap hell. But more than anything, it's the week to week issues that have been simply appalling, from playcalling that even the half-interested announcers easily predict to dumbfounding clock-management and now ignorance of basic rules.

Gibbs, IMO, knows he would be gone if it weren't for special treatment and that fact more than anything else bothers him (as it would for anyone with strong character, which he has). So here's the big question I ask myself: will Gibbs ultimately accept his failure in this second tour and leave football behind forever OR will he redouble his efforts, sharpen his wits, and learn what it takes to be successful today (rather than what it took before salaries mattered)? I don't think there is an in-between for Gibbs. If he returns after this year we'll see a much sharper tack and probably a much better football team. If he doesn't return than all bets are off for Redskins football in '08; could be better, could be worse (though not by much).

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

We do have quite a number of issues (salary cap, quality depth, play calling, clock management, etc) but nothing is un-fixable...and last time I checked this team was in the playoffs in 2005 with the same bunch of people (less Saunders). The real issue we seem to be having this year is with injuries, which can be addressed by keeping more of our draft picks.

I don't buy the notion that this team needs to clean house. This team has talent, they just need to get it together and I still have faith in Gibbs.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

Man, I thought this was done for the year, please no more Gibbs must go threads.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[QUOTE=saden1;389460]We do have quite a number of issues (salary cap, quality depth, play calling, clock management, etc) but nothing is un-fixable...and last time I checked this team was in the playoffs in 2005 with the same bunch of people (less Saunders). The real issue we seem to be having this year is with injuries, which can be addressed by keeping more of our draft picks.

I don't buy the notion that this team needs to clean house. This team has talent, they just need to get it together and I still have faith in Gibbs.[/QUOTE]

That pretty well sums up my feelings, though I'd add "failure to execute called plays". Nicely done saden (notice how I didn't capitalize :) )

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=saden1;389460]We do have quite a number of issues (salary cap, quality depth, play calling, clock management, etc) but nothing is un-fixable...and last time I checked this team was in the playoffs in 2005 with the same bunch of people (less Saunders). The real issue we seem to be having this year is with injuries, which can be addressed by keeping more of our draft picks.

I don't buy the notion that this team needs to clean house. This team has talent, they just need to get it together and I still have faith in Gibbs.[/quote]

The O-line is getting old. How many more years can we keep this group together? The wr position has to be addressed. AGAIN. Although we are faster on defense we still do not have any playmakers on the front 7. We need someone coming off the edge. I like Daniels but he just can't rush the passer. At all. And the secondary is a mess. Springs is hurt again and he probably isn't going to be here next year. And replacing Taylor is really going to be hard. He was the one player that opposing offenses feared.

We may not need a total house cleaning, but we might need a mini one.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

I'm an old school Joe Gibbs fan but i do think we need to move in a different direction although if JG wants to coach next year, so be it.

I've heard alot of excuses for JG over the last 4 years, but the fact is he hasn't gotten it done in a mediocre NFC. Talk all you want about the injuries and any other excuse but it hasn't worked. Maybe someone can do some homework, but how many games have we lost due to conservative play down the stretch...trying to run out the clock...playing conservative w/ a lead? I would take a guess and say 5 or 6 minimum in the last 2 years.

If JG's wants one more crack at it next year I'm ok w/ it, but I don't know that next year will be much different. It really hasn't changed much over the last 4 years and that's pretty sad.

My 2 cents is GW. That guy has got a pair and wants to win. He most likely won't leave the game in the hands of the defense every week. Al Saunders...he hasn't been calling plays much at all here and especially not in crunch time.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;389381]Has anybody given it some thought as to what's going on in Joe's head? Grandson diagnosed with lukemia, team swamped with key injuries, your best player gets murdered in the middle of the season. How would most of you guys that criticize Gibbs react if that happen to you? To boot a lot of the media and fans chant Joe must go. I think this man deserves more than a break, such as letting him fulfill his contract. You can't compare Joe with Cowher, Williams, Phillips, etc. none of those guys could do what Joe has done in his career even if it was in the past. We all wanted him to comeback? Didn't we? Then lets give him the decency of fulfilling his contract and then post this kind of posts if he fails.[/quote]
Well the issue with is grandson is a sad one but he is paid to win football games and if he has personal issues getting in the way then he sould retire. Using ST as an excuse is very poor because we have only played one game sense his death and what did Gibb's do? You also say give him a chance and only post these post if he fails. Right now what is his record? Do you call that not failing? I have backed Gibbs from day one and only until the past couple of weeks have I started to think that maybe its time for him to retire. If he stayes another year I'm not going to throw a fit but the thought of him retiring has crossed my mind.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

I'm so tired of hearing this B.S.. There is absolutely no way that Joe Gibbs should be fired or even quit. We are not that good, but we are better than when we were before he got here. Joe probably isn't going to come back after next season anyway. Let him go on his own terms. He is the Joe Pa. and Bobby Bowden of the skins. He deserves to stay as long as he wants. He is not as interactive as other head coaches, the coordinators run there unit. So it really doesn't matter anyway. I love Coach Gibbs and I know any true skins fan does too, leave him alone he is a hof and a legend.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

Does everyone understand that at some point we have to hold the players accountable for how they play? Perhaps part of the reason they keep making the same mistakes is that all the heat is focused on Gibbs and they continually skate. The game is played on the field. Gibbs has made some mistakes, but the players have made a lot more. Those guys have it pretty sweet it seems to me. They get paid millions, deliver nothing, and Coach Gibbs shoulders all the scrutiny. The ass clowns will be lined up around the block again this off-season hoping for a contract to play for the Washington Redskins - the easiest gig in football.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;389547]Does everyone understand that at some point we have to hold the players accountable for how they play? Perhaps part of the reason they keep making the same mistakes is that all the heat is focused on Gibbs and they continually skate. The game is played on the field. Gibbs has made some mistakes, but the players have made a lot more. Those guys have it pretty sweet it seems to me. They get paid millions, deliver nothing, and Coach Gibbs shoulders all the scrutiny. The ass clowns will be lined up around the block again this off-season hoping for a contract to play for the Washington Redskins - the easiest gig in football.[/QUOTE]

I heart you

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;389550]I heart you[/quote]

Right back at you slick. (And by the way, I love me some channel 208)

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=70Chip;389547]Does everyone understand that at some point we have to hold the players accountable for how they play? Perhaps part of the reason they keep making the same mistakes is that all the heat is focused on Gibbs and they continually skate. The game is played on the field. Gibbs has made some mistakes, but the players have made a lot more. Those guys have it pretty sweet it seems to me. They get paid millions, deliver nothing, and Coach Gibbs shoulders all the scrutiny. The ass clowns will be lined up around the block again this off-season hoping for a contract to play for the Washington Redskins - the easiest gig in football.[/quote]
What you just described is an example of a coach not doing his job getting players ready or motivated to play. I can only think of one player that Gibbs let go drun the season because of poor play on the field. I think his name was Brown something the WR we were using as a return man and he fumbled twice in a game.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Vulta121;389536]I'm so tired of hearing this B.S.. There is absolutely no way that Joe Gibbs should be fired or even quit. [B]We are not that good, but we are better than when we were before he got here[/B]. Joe probably isn't going to come back after next season anyway. Let him go on his own terms. He is the Joe Pa. and Bobby [B]Bowden[/B] of the skins. He deserves to stay as long as he wants. He is not as interactive as other head coaches, the coordinators run there unit. So it really doesn't matter anyway. I love Coach Gibbs and I know any true skins fan does too, leave him alone he is a hof and a legend.[/quote]

Is this really what we are reduced to when evaluating progress? Stating that the criteria of judgment for a Hall of fame coach with one of the most expensive payrolls in the league is whether or not we are subjectively "better off" now (which i believe, but we were 5-11 in 2003, 6-10 in 2004, 10-6 in 2005, and 5-11 in 2006, at 5-7, which year looks like the anomoly? ), 4 years later, than we were when he came- yet we are still bad? Really? when did guiding a team from bad to still bad, but marginally better than 4 years earlier amount to progress? I'm not saying that we need to be a great team, but i'm struggling to find substantive progress under Gibbs second term. I'm not asking to take a jet to the superbowl, but i don't think walking (three steps forward, 2 steps back) is working well either. At this rate, we'll be good just in time to need to replace the entire offensive line. Management must be held accountable- now that does not mean I want him fired, but I do think he should hire a GM, cede all play calling, and basically function as the aforementioned Bowden at FSU.

PS- I'm not saying Gibbs hasn't done anything...we are a competitive in each game now, we've got a QB for the future (i hope), and he's made some decent moves in the draft and free agency...but honestly, for every good move in the free agency market, he's probably done one that was poor.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

My point is... Does anyone here think that next year things will change drastically? Is this a Superbowl caliber team? After 4 years this team makes the same errors and loses games they should win, will keeping gibbs around change things, no he has been in charge for the 4 years. Cut ties now and put someone else in charge. No one debates the fact that JG is a great man, and brought years of winning and 3 championships to the skins, BUT in a "what have you done for me lately" league, he hasnt done much.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

One issue with cleaning house that I have not heard addressed (which doesn't mean it hasn't been addressed) is what happens to Jason Campbell. Anecdotally at least, it seems that often times when a team changes course early on in the development of a young QB that QB drifts off into oblivion. The group that drafted him, had faith in him, and had staked their reputations to him are gone and the proverbial chain tends to get a lot shorter. The new staff will sometimes bring in their own guy, who they want to develop, and they just aren't willing to weather the storms with someone else's choice. Obviously if Gregg Williams were to take over it would be different, but other than that what happens?

Two that come to my mind immediately are J.P. Losman and Phillip Rivers (err, Pat Ramsey?), and maybe I'm extrapolating too much, but it just seems that when teams change direction before a young QB has really established himself it doesn't work too well for the QB.

Edit: and add Matt Leinart this season prior to his injury.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Vulta121;389536]I'm so tired of hearing this B.S.. There is absolutely no way that Joe Gibbs should be fired or even quit. We are not that good, but we are better than when we were before he got here. Joe probably isn't going to come back after next season anyway. Let him go on his own terms. He is the Joe Pa. and Bobby Bowden of the skins. He deserves to stay as long as he wants. He is not as interactive as other head coaches, the coordinators run there unit. So it really doesn't matter anyway. I love Coach Gibbs and I know any true skins fan does too, leave him alone he is a hof and a legend.[/quote]
Gibbs four years here around .43% win record and 4 years prior to Gibbs .44. We are no better.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=Stacks42;389555]My point is... Does anyone here think that next year things will change drastically? Is this a Superbowl caliber team? After 4 years this team makes the same errors and loses games they should win, will keeping gibbs around change things, no he has been in charge for the 4 years. Cut ties now and put someone else in charge. No one debates the fact that JG is a great man, and brought years of winning and 3 championships to the skins, BUT in a "what have you done for me lately" league, he hasnt done much.[/quote]That's the point Stacks, he doesn't really have to do anything for us. He just has to guide the team, keep them on the right track, and let the players do the winning.

The cold hard facts are that in our injured state, we've played one of the three toughest schedules in the league. While we missed a few crucial chances to turn 5-7 into 7-5 with average luck (or even better than 7-5 with great fortune), you can't say we haven't played at least 7 games where we were outtalented. Think about it: Philadelphia twice, Dallas, New England, Tampa, Green Bay, and arguably the Giants. When the team is beset by injuries and mediocre overall talent, then the expectation for winning is tampered.

To all but you apparently.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=firstdown;389557]Gibbs four years here around .43% win record and 4 years prior to Gibbs .44. We are no better.[/quote]

While this is a very simplistic way of breaking it down, in the end, the bottom line is what matters and the fact that we haven't won any more games under Gibbs' guidance is a very telling statistic. I do thank him for making us competitive in every game for drafting JC, Taylor, cooley and Rocky among other things...

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=firstdown;389553]What you just described is an example of a coach not doing his job getting players ready or motivated to play. I can only think of one player that Gibbs let go drun the season because of poor play on the field. I think his name was Brown something the WR we were using as a return man and he fumbled twice in a game.[/quote]

No. What I am describing is an attitude among the fans that it's never the fault of the players. Why should they care how they play when they know that they can turn the ball over 6 times and people will still spend the whole week talking about Gibbs decision to go for it on 4th and 1? For that matter, why should they care wether or not they even get the 4th and 1? We can have all these Fire Gibbs! threads, they are unavoidable. What boggles my mind is why there aren't an equal number of threads directed at players. There are people in here still defending Brandon Lloyd, for crying out loud.

Also, he cut Walter Rasby mid-season in 2004.

Re: Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;389556]One issue with cleaning house that I have not heard addressed (which doesn't mean it hasn't been addressed) is what happens to Jason Campbell. Anecdotally at least, it seems that often times when a team changes course early on in the development of a young QB that QB drifts off into oblivion. The group that drafted him, had faith in him, and had staked their reputations to him are gone and the proverbial chain tends to get a lot shorter. The new staff will sometimes bring in their own guy, who they want to develop, and they just aren't willing to weather the storms with someone else's choice. Obviously if Gregg Williams were to take over it would be different, but other than that what happens?

Two that come to my mind immediately are J.P. Losman and Phillip Rivers (err, Pat Ramsey?), and maybe I'm extrapolating too much, but it just seems that when teams change direction before a young QB has really established himself it doesn't work too well for the QB.

Edit: and add Matt Leinart this season prior to his injury.[/quote]Ben Roethlisberger (4th season), Peyton Manning (5th season), Tony Romo (5th season), Drew Brees (6th season), all flourished under new coaching, but I see your point. My list of guys are considerably older than your list of guys.

Seems like there is something there that unestablished great QB prospects regress in a new offense in the short term, but in the long term they seem to be just fine.