How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Knowing what you know so far of the Vick case, and considering recent conduct decisions made on the likes of Pacman, Tank, and Chris Henry, if a decision had to be made today what would you do?

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

he should be able to play extra games

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Based on what we know [U]right now[/U], I would boot him for 4 games.

And honestly if I were the Falcons, I would seriously be considering dumping Vick completely and signing Culpepper.

This case is going to be a PR nightmare.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Good thread. The other Vick thread just had too much going on and I'm tired of politics.

I actually think he'll get suspended for the season, but Bush will commute said sentence and Vick will play entire season.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

I went with eight because it seems pretty clear that these horrific acts happened on his property and he's made the entire Falcons organization look bad.
If he is convicted of anything associated with these fights (financing them, betting on them, animal abuse, etc.) I think he should be out for the entire season.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Right now I'd have to say 0 games because it has not gone to trial. Now if I was the owner or coach it might be a good idea to ask Vick to stay at home because of the distraction this is going to cause. A better poll would have been how many news reporters are heading to Atlanta or how many times a day will reporters ask about this. The only other thing that the Falcons could do would be shut the gates and bar reporters but I think they have obligations which require them to allow the press in.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=Duffman003;330739]he should be able to play extra games[/QUOTE]

What does that mean?

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

I think he'll get booted for 8 games.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

4 games for now. That's 4 for lying to the commish and in general just causing major problems. Any type of felony conviction should add another 12 games to it.

And I concur with Matty. Atlanta ought to drop him now. I think the risk with dropping him is low and the reward would be relatively high.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;330748]Right now I'd have to say 0 games because it has not gone to trial. Now if I was the owner or coach it might be a good idea to ask Vick to stay at home because of the distraction this is going to cause. A better poll would have been how many news reporters are heading to Atlanta or how many times a day will reporters ask about this. The only other thing that the Falcons could do would be shut the gates and bar reporters but I think they have obligations which require them to allow the press in.[/QUOTE]

If this was an out of the blue situation I would say yes but based on some minor previous stuff and the basic embarrassment of the situation I think a suspension is in order right now. These guys need to start realizing that what they do, illegal or not, reflects on the league. He obviously knew what was going on at least. Trying to deny that is just even more embarrassing for him so that puts him right in the line of fire for a suspension to me.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

With the aiport incident and middle finger to his own fans on the field last year I would give hime the entire season off to clear his head.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Knowing what I know now, since the trial probably won't start until towards the end of the season, it's likely that he won't get suspended for any games at all (this year). I just don't know enough about it yet, other than the rumors that are going around. Obviously they think they have enough on him or they wouldn't have indicted him. It really all depends on when the trial starts. Once the trial starts, I don't think you'll see him on the field anymore for the simple fact that he can't be the QB of a national football league team, and be coming and going to court appearances. That being said, I'm sure his attorneys will do their best to make sure the trial doesn't start until after the season. Then they at least have an argument against any suspension threatened by the league (not that it wouldn't happen). I do have a feeling that once this plays out to the end, if Vick is found guilty, he may never play football again. Did you happen to see who the judge is assigned to the case? The dude is notorious for sentencing people for sometimes double the federal guidelines because he is willing to take into account the effect the crime has on a community.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

I voted 4 because I think that's what he'll get. As of right now, I don't think, if I were the commissioner, I would suspend him. I believe it's tough to justify suspending guys before their legal proceedings even take place, apparently Goodell disagrees. I don't like his "Suspend first, ask questions later" attitude, but I think Vick can expect to take a few weeks off because of all of this.

I do think that, if I were Arthur Blank, we would sit down and have a nice long chat about how he intends to move forward as the Falcons' quarterback and let him know that he could not be on a shorter leash, not based on his play, but his off-field behavior. Meaning: if this trial doesn't go well, he'd better have a good agent if he wants to continue playing.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

I think the Falcons can find a way to ease into this; they could give him/talk him into a leave of absence until it goes to court. His pay would be the difficult thing to work out; they could withhold game checks but pay any roster bonus or vice versa. Might be sticky, but he & his agent would probably rather bow out for the time being rather than get into a fight w/Falcons mgmt.

Goodell would then be more willing to withold any action until it goes to trial. Kind of saves face for everybody for the time being.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=FRPLG;330756]If this was an out of the blue situation I would say yes but based on some minor previous stuff and the basic embarrassment of the situation I think a suspension is in order right now. These guys need to start realizing that what they do, illegal or not, reflects on the league. He obviously knew what was going on at least. Trying to deny that is just even more embarrassing for him so that puts him right in the line of fire for a suspension to me.[/quote]
If the leaque suspended him because he was lying wouldn't they be finding him guilty before the trial takes place. I believe he is guilty and should be suspended but at this time I think it should be left up to the Falcons and not the NFL. I also think that the league is not going to have to suspend Vick as the judge is going to do that for them. An interesting thing I heard last night is that the judge will have the last word if he is found guilty of how much jail time he receives. Thats when the brutal things they did to these dogs will come back to bite him with a longer sentence.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Considering Pacman Jones’ suspension of 10 games, and what he has been accused of, I would recommend that Vick be tossed for the entire season. Of course we’ve all heard the arguments and comparisons between Vick and Pacman, and that Vick has not had the number of run-ins w/ the law, etc. etc., but Vick has apparently done immeasurable harm to those animals not to mention his teammates, his team owner, and God knows what else. If the NFL is going to be consistent with their new get tough policies, then they need to dish the same, if not similar, punishment to Vick that they have to Pacman.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=Dlyne8r;330765]Considering Pacman Jones’ suspension of 10 games, and what he has been accused of, I would recommend that Vick be tossed for the entire season. Of course we’ve all heard the arguments and comparisons between Vick and Pacman, and that Vick has not had the number of run-ins w/ the law, etc. etc., but Vick has apparently done immeasurable harm to those animals not to mention his teammates, his team owner, and God knows what else. If the NFL is going to be consistent with their new get tough policies, then they need to dish the same, if not similar, punishment to Vick that they have to Pacman.[/QUOTE]

That's sort of what I'm leaning toward as well. I have a feeling though that something will be worked out where he's suspended indefinitely but with pay, with no opportunity to return before the 5th game of the season.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

"SmootSmack: That's sort of what I'm leaning toward as well. I have a feeling though that something will be worked out where he's suspended indefinitely but with pay, with no opportunity to return before the 5th game of the season."

That is exactly what is being said here in Atlanta. If the Falcons (and Arthur Blank especially) place Vick on an “indefinite leave,” even with pay, the organization appears to be placing some type of disciplinary action toward Vick. But, they also would look like they were offering some amount of support for Vick in case he is exonerated. Finally, the scenario you mention would avoid the impending media frenzy and accompanying distractions to the team.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

I voted zero until he's proven guilty (which I think he is)...but unlike those in the other cases, this is his first time in serious trouble with the law/NFL, so I'm willing to give him the benifit of the doubt until his trial plays out.

If he is found guilty....than I dont think he should ever play again.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

all of them, other than some

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Dlyne8r;330773]"SmootSmack: That's sort of what I'm leaning toward as well. I have a feeling though that something will be worked out where he's suspended indefinitely but with pay, with no opportunity to return before the 5th game of the season."

That is exactly what is being said here in Atlanta. If the Falcons (and Arthur Blank especially) place Vick on an “indefinite leave,” even with pay, the organization appears to be placing some type of disciplinary action toward Vick. But, they also would look like they were offering some amount of support for Vick in case he is exonerated. Finally, the scenario you mention would avoid the impending media frenzy and accompanying distractions to the team.[/quote]

That's pretty much what I posted earlier. I read that they were considering a leave of absence, which makes sense. If I were his agent I would take the initiative to get him some leave w/pay.

Suspended or not, I just don't see how he can get on the field w/all of this going on. People will give him hell everywhere the falcons go, including their own home stadium.

I can bet you one thing for sure, Va. Tech has been getting offers from Metallica & Dave Mathews to play free before kickoff on their opener, 9/1. I bet VT won't be inviting Michael back anytime soon!

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

At this point I'd say zero.. Right now he's been indicted but not convicted of anything. This is his first ever offense with the law so there is not a history like there was with Pac-Man, Chris Henry or Tank Johnson.

Without an admission or a conviction, there is no proof he lied to the NFL or the Falcons.

If/when he is convicted or agrees to a plea deal then he will get his just punishment from the league. I expect him to agree to a plea and spend 4-8 months in jail and have at least an 8 game suspension.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Paintrain;330778]At this point I'd say zero.. Right now he's been indicted but not convicted of anything. This is his first ever offense with the law so there is not a history like there was with Pac-Man, Chris Henry or Tank Johnson.

Without an admission or a conviction, there is no proof he lied to the NFL or the Falcons.

If/when he is convicted or agrees to a plea deal then he will get his just punishment from the league. I expect him to agree to a plea and spend 4-8 months in jail and have at least an 8 game suspension.[/quote]


I hope you are wrong. I hope they give him more than the maximum which is six years I think. The judge assigned to his case has a track record of handing down stiffer sentences than what the federal guidelines are, and I would like to see him do the same here. No pleas, no deals...send him away for a long time and never see his ass on a football field again.

Of course only if he's found guilty.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Its a moot point because Vick is going to the slammer and by the time he gets out his career will be toast. Vick is done playing football.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;330778]At this point I'd say zero.. Right now he's been indicted but not convicted of anything. This is his first ever offense with the law so there is not a history like there was with Pac-Man, Chris Henry or Tank Johnson.

Without an admission or a conviction, there is no proof he lied to the NFL or the Falcons.

If/when he is convicted or agrees to a plea deal then he will get his just punishment from the league. I expect him to agree to a plea and spend 4-8 months in jail and have at least an 8 game suspension.[/QUOTE]

I heard a stat on sports talk 980 yesterday that said 99% of these Federal indictments end up in convictions. Now that the Feds are involved history says they take it all the way to the end. IMO Vick is finished.

Vick's bigger problem is that he is scheduled for court the day camp starts and the contract says that if he does not show up at camp (for whatever reason) all his bonus $ goes back to the team. First it will be his bonus money then his endorsements. Talk about going from the penthouse to the outhouse.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=irish;330786]I heard a stat on sports talk 980 yesterday that said 99% of these Federal indictments end up in convictions. Now that the Feds are involved history says they take it all the way to the end. IMO Vick is finished.

Vick's bigger problem is that he is scheduled for court the day camp starts and the contract says that if he does not show up at camp (for whatever reason) all his bonus $ goes back to the team. First it will be his bonus money then his endorsements. Talk about going from the penthouse to the outhouse.[/quote]

Irish, you may be on point with this. I'm hearing the same thing here on my end. Some people think this guy won't see the NFL ever again.

I'm hearing he could do like 3-6 years.

I think it's more like from the penthouse to the outhouse to the doghouse!

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=irish;330786]I heard a stat on sports talk 980 yesterday that said 99% of these Federal indictments end up in convictions. Now that the Feds are involved history says they take it all the way to the end. IMO Vick is finished.

Vick's bigger problem is that he is scheduled for court the day camp starts and the contract says that if he does not show up at camp (for whatever reason) all his bonus $ goes back to the team. First it will be his bonus money then his endorsements. Talk about going from the penthouse to the outhouse.[/quote]
I think Vick has made enough money that he is set for life and I know that he has a very good atty. who handles his money. The reason I know is because a relative of mine knows the atty and he's set for life.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Everyone on this board has offered very valid reasons for their choice in how many games Vick should be suspended, if any at all. That’s what makes this site so good: intelligent and informed conversation. But what frustrates me so much is this one simple thing: If this incident involved me or any one else on this board, we would be facing insurmountable obstacles. In fact, we most likely would lose our jobs, our income, and even worse, our families. Even if we had NOT been given the opportunity to go through the legal system. Why then should an athlete, or a celebrity, people that have huge amounts of income, be treated any different than we average people?

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Dlyne8r;330793]Everyone on this board has offered very valid reasons for their choice in how many games Vick should be suspended, if any at all. That’s what makes this site so good: intelligent and informed conversation. But what frustrates me so much is this one simple thing: If this incident involved me or any one else on this board, we would be facing insurmountable obstacles. In fact, we most likely would lose our jobs, our income, and even worse, our families. Even if we had NOT been given the opportunity to go through the legal system. Why then should an athlete, or a celebrity, people that have huge amounts of income, be treated any different than we average people?[/quote]

Good thoughts. Well for one, our legal system doesn't treat athletes like average people because we don't treat them like average people.

Unfortunately, money can buy you freedom in this country. In this case, however, I think he'll be prosecuted, if not to the full extent of the law, enough to make the average Joe happy about it.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=Dlyne8r;330793]Everyone on this board has offered very valid reasons for their choice in how many games Vick should be suspended, if any at all. That’s what makes this site so good: intelligent and informed conversation. But what frustrates me so much is this one simple thing: If this incident involved me or any one else on this board, we would be facing insurmountable obstacles. In fact, we most likely would lose our jobs, our income, and even worse, our families. Even if we had NOT been given the opportunity to go through the legal system. Why then should an athlete, or a celebrity, people that have huge amounts of income, be treated any different than we average people?[/QUOTE]

Welcome to America. $$ talks.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;330794]our legal system doesn't treat athletes like average people because we don't treat them like average people.[/QUOTE]

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Well stated.

Still, I think even the level of celebrity he is matters. Let's face it, if this is Sage Rosenfels he's probably suspended by now. Isn't he?

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Your poll doesn't list "suspend with out pay until resolved." And, if guilty "Suspend for Life."

To all you "don't rush to judgement, innocent until proven guilty, look at Duke" guys:

All absurd arguments. Vick is under federal indictment for multiple serious felonies. Included in this indictment are gambling charges. The league has every right to suspend Vick prior to conviction, but may choose not to. It's the wrong choice. By not acting- the league is tacitly giving preferential treatment to Vick and tarnishing the NFL's image. The reason this is the case, is because they have the power and precedent to suspend vick. There are multiple charges and illegal gambling is included in the charge. By not suspending Vick, the commish is in essence saying that the league doesn't think Vick's Federal Indictment is worthy of receiving the full force of his office.

As far as "Rushing to judgement" goes- Vick will get his day in court. The fact that he has been federally indicted is enough for any private or public company for that matter, to suspend an employee. Most companies would just fire you. If your employer found out that you were under Federal Idictment, would you not be fired or suspended? Innocent until proven guilty is the measurement used to convict. Civil matters in court are held to a lesser standard- Preponderance of the evidence. And, as far outside of a court room- Business makes it's own decisions and public opinion is for each of us to decide. So why would the NFL be rushing to judgement if they suspend Vick? They don't have to use the same criteria a courtroom does for an employee. And, ask yourself... would you invite a person charged with a violent felony to your home or work? Would you be "rushing to judgement" if you said no- because a court of law hasn't determined if he's been proven guilty? C'mon!

As far as, Duke goes. PLEASE! Just because there has been one injustice doesn't mean you have to throw out the entire system. And, in fact, there wasn't an injustice because the Duke players were proven innocent and let off in the end. The criminal Lawyer was punished. Did the players suffer in public opinion? YES! Was it wrong for the public to judge these guys negativley? NO! It was common sense based on experience. And, with the Duke case, I think there were many people besides myself who were more shocked that the case went as far as it did.

If the NFL decides it should spot light an accused felon as one of their "stars", so be it. I just hope the fans and more importantly the sponsers, show gumption enough to make the so called "get tough" commish suffer.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=irish;330786]I heard a stat on sports talk 980 yesterday that said 99% of these Federal indictments end up in convictions. Now that the Feds are involved history says they take it all the way to the end. IMO Vick is finished.

Vick's bigger problem is that he is scheduled for court the day camp starts and the contract says that if he does not show up at camp (for whatever reason) all his bonus $ goes back to the team. First it will be his bonus money then his endorsements. Talk about going from the penthouse to the outhouse.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that stat is 95% of federal indictments end up in convictions or pleas.. If he's at all involved, he's going to plea out. He'd have to have the worst lawyer in the history of law if he lets this go to trial. Even with the judge being a hard ass, unless there is irrefutable proof that Vick was organizing, participating and was 'hands on' for the majority of the crimes he's accused of, he will plea and get a greatly reduced sentence. 1st offense and he's blindingly rich. He'll serve less than a year in jail and even then it will be a country club jail, not a hardcore prison.

There will be so many pre-trial motions that this will not get to the court room until well into 2008 so he's going to be able to play this year.

I'm sure they will work something out for him not to lose his bonus money because he's not at the opening of camp. He will get bail and be back in Atlanta that evening so he won't be 'missing camp'.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

Yes, I understand the obvious, $$ talks and those with a lot of it can get away with anything (i.e.-OJ Simpson). I just hope that the NFL is consistent with the punishment they give out to ALL of the players.

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[quote=SmootSmack;330796]That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Well stated.

Still, I think even the level of celebrity he is matters. Let's face it, if this is Sage Rosenfels he's probably suspended by now. Isn't he?[/quote]

Sage would definitely be suspended by now. And I think the Commish and the Falcons are in a bit of quandry because it's Michael Vick and there are so many implications with suspending or kicking him out all together.
If they seem too harsh on him, then it's because they want to make an example of him. If their too soft, it's because of his name and his money.

People think that Pac Man was the precendent, but Pac Man is no Michael Vick. It wasn't until maybe 18 months ago that Vick's image began to suffer.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[quote=Paintrain;330799]Yeah, that stat is 95% of federal indictments end up in convictions or pleas.. If he's at all involved, he's going to plea out. He'd have to have the worst lawyer in the history of law if he lets this go to trial. Even with the judge being a hard ass, unless there is irrefutable proof that Vick was organizing, participating and was 'hands on' for the majority of the crimes he's accused of, he will plea and get a greatly reduced sentence. 1st offense and he's blindingly rich. He'll serve less than a year in jail and even then it will be a country club jail, not a hardcore prison.

There will be so many pre-trial motions that this will not get to the court room until well into 2008 so he's going to be able to play this year.

I'm sure they will work something out for him not to lose his bonus money because he's not at the opening of camp. He will get bail and be back in Atlanta that evening so he won't be 'missing camp'.[/quote]

True, but you forgot to throw PETA into the equation. They will put a tremendous amount of pressure on the prosecutor's office and the judge to act swiftly and in the best intrests of their organization.

Believe you me (as my mother would say), they won't just let Vick and his team of attorneys motion this into eternity.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;330799]Yeah, that stat is 95% of federal indictments end up in convictions or pleas.. If he's at all involved, he's going to plea out. He'd have to have the worst lawyer in the history of law if he lets this go to trial. Even with the judge being a hard ass, unless there is irrefutable proof that Vick was organizing, participating and was 'hands on' for the majority of the crimes he's accused of, he will plea and get a greatly reduced sentence. 1st offense and he's blindingly rich. He'll serve less than a year in jail and even then it will be a country club jail, not a hardcore prison.

There will be so many pre-trial motions that this will not get to the court room until well into 2008 so he's going to be able to play this year.

I'm sure they will work something out for him not to lose his bonus money because he's not at the opening of camp. He will get bail and be back in Atlanta that evening so he won't be 'missing camp'.[/QUOTE]

IMO Vick's atty already let him down by letting Vick allow this to get this far. He had a chance to "come clean" earlier but he tried to skate around the authorities. Now its at the Fed level and a media/PR nightmare. Hopefully Vick has the brains to find a new atty/advisor (but I doubt it).

I dont know about pre-trial motions or that stuff but football isnt like basketball because of the weekly prep work for every team and if the trial does go on during this season or any season Vick wont be able to be in court and prepare for games.

You assume Atl will want to work something out with this PR disaster. What does Atl have to gain by working with Vick to help ensure he gets his $? Its not like Vick has lead Atl to 2 Super Bowl wins or even yearly deep playoff runs. He's an overhyped underachieving QB. I dont look for Atl to cut any deals with Vick.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

well right now none. Who is the commish to play judge and jury? Now a few restrictions to what times he is to be out could be in order to keep him out of trouble but no suspension should be put down. If he breaks any rules set in place for him, then suspend him.

If he is guilty he has many more things to worry about. No need to ever suspend him, he'll be in jail. If he is guilty he is definitely spending some time iin jail, no way out of it. Hopefully there is no plea agreement with no jail time. That would upset a lot of people. If a plea deal does happen then suspend the bitch for a year.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=irish;330804]IMO Vick's atty already let him down by letting Vick allow this to get this far. He had a chance to "come clean" earlier but he tried to skate around the authorities. Now its at the Fed level and a media/PR nightmare. Hopefully Vick has the brains to find a new atty/advisor (but I doubt it).

I dont know about pre-trial motions or that stuff but football isnt like basketball because of the weekly prep work for every team and if the trial does go on during this season or any season Vick wont be able to be in court and prepare for games.

You assume Atl will want to work something out with this PR disaster. What does Atl have to gain by working with Vick to help ensure he gets his $? Its not like Vick has lead Atl to 2 Super Bowl wins or even yearly deep playoff runs. He's an overhyped underachieving QB. I dont look for Atl to cut any deals with Vick.[/QUOTE]
There's no way the trial happens during the season, the legal system doesn't work that quickly, especially when there is a rich defendant who can stall involved. He won't see the inside of a court room after next week for at least 8 months if not more.

I lived in Atlanta for 14 of the past 16 years (moved to Miami in '05) and it is hands down the worst "major" sports town in America.. Before Vick, the Falcons couldn't sell tickets for squat. Now, the Dome is sold out for every game. Don't be fooled by the media, if Vick is playing, they will continue to sell out because Atlanta fans follow their players, not their teams. For all of the morality the NFL and it's teams now want to profess, they are in business and what drives their business is asses in seats and TV revenue. Atlanta fans are going to continue to shell out their $ to watch (overhyped and underachieving or not) one of the most exciting players in football.

Re: How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;330802]True, but you forgot to throw PETA into the equation. They will put a tremendous amount of pressure on the prosecutor's office and the judge to act swiftly and in the best intrests of their organization.

Believe you me (as my mother would say), they won't just let Vick and his team of attorneys motion this into eternity.[/QUOTE]

While PETA (who I am no fan of) has a level of influence and pressure they can put on the prosecutors office, they (as my best friend's mother would say) have no nickel in this dime. The prosecutor and judge, who are appointed and not elected, have no allegiance or responsibility to cowtow to any special interest groups.