Asante Samuel
 

Has anyone talked about this yet? He wants to be traded, the pats have 2 1st round picks, earlier then the bears #31. I think its hands down better then the Briggs deal. Any thoughts?

Re: asante samuel
 

Very good corner but the price tag is way too much.

Re: asante samuel
 

No thanks, too little, and not physical enough.

Re: asante samuel
 

for right now the skins are ok at corner. anyone know how old he is?

Re: asante samuel
 

Briggs will also come at a high price, I just think cornerback is more of a need for us.

Re: asante samuel
 

He's 26 and had 10 freakin interceptions last year.

Re: asante samuel
 

Good Corner. I don't see the need with our corner lineup.....hopefully all will stay healthy?

Re: asante samuel
 

Great cover guy, but a little too small against the run.

Re: asante samuel
 

he is 26 years old, already turned 26 this year
5'10" 185 lbs
65 tackles 10 INTs last year

Re: asante samuel
 

I thought they weren't planning on letting him go anyway

Re: asante samuel
 

Not a bad idea, but might crowd the lineup. Briggs would be starting if we got him, but he'd be replacing a guy that' started 2 games, whereas Rogers, Springs & Smoot are all starters & expect to start. Will be interesting to see who the nickel is.

Re: asante samuel
 

[quote=dmek25;294500]for right now the skins are ok at corner. anyone know how old he is?[/quote]


26

Re: asante samuel
 

I don't like it, with Smoot in house we should have enough CBs.

Re: asante samuel
 

Oh not again.....samuel, threatens to sit out. poor baby, stay home! :yeahright

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Re: asante samuel
 

I think every player thats been taged as the franchise player for their team is not going to play this year.

Must be tough to be one of the TOP paid players at any given position, and just say I want a trade OR I'm not playin? I think these players have a bone to pick with the union CBA that agreed to these terms, not the TEAMS problem......but it sure does end up being the TEAMS problem. What a Mess!

Re: asante samuel
 

Ok, I don't want to piss off any previous posters and start a big argument. But I think some of you are being a little hypocritical here. Many of us bag the front office for trying to do the one year fix, and that is exactly what your arguing here. Many are saying we are locked up right now for corner. Yes right now. Check it out;
Springs is over 30
Making Big $
Complaining about being a Skin and having to restructure
Injury Prone
Smoot Sucked with Minny
and Rogers was average at best last year

I hardly think this is locked up. And even if they perform great, it's only for this year. I would jump at this if we could get it. This dude is money. Plus you have a real problem on D if you expect your corners to make big tackles. Your D line and backers should be doing the big ugly work.
Just My 2C

Re: asante samuel
 

[QUOTE=IrishSkins Fan;294527]Ok, I don't want to piss off any previous posters and start a big argument. But I think some of you are being a little hypocritical here. Many of us bag the front office for trying to do the one year fix, and that is exactly what your arguing here. Many are saying we are locked up right now for corner. Yes right now. Check it out;
Springs is over 30
Making Big $
Complaining about being a Skin and having to restructure
Injury Prone
Smoot Sucked with Minny
and Rogers was average at best last year

I hardly think this is locked up. And even if they perform great, it's only for this year. I would jump at this if we could get it. This dude is money. Plus you have a real problem on D if you expect your corners to make big tackles. Your D line and backers should be doing the big ugly work.
Just My 2C[/QUOTE]
The guy doesn't fit our defensive system. We might as well trade for him and start him a LB. He's a strict cover guy and a good one at that. But our CBs are supposed to play the run and Samuel is pretty poor at that.

Re: asante samuel
 

Smoot's pretty crappy at run support also. Maybe his signing dictates a willingness to alter our philosophy?

Re: asante samuel
 

[quote=GTripp0012;294532]Smoot's pretty crappy at run support also. Maybe his signing dictates a willingness to alter our philosophy?[/quote]

fruity fruity delicious delicious man they are delicious skittles taste the rainbow

but at least smoot is willing to take on rbs while most corners his size are not

Re: asante samuel
 

I AM A VIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeah i am so happy

Re: asante samuel
 

[quote=IrishSkins Fan;294527]Ok, I don't want to piss off any previous posters and start a big argument. But I think some of you are being a little hypocritical here. Many of us bag the front office for trying to do the one year fix, and that is exactly what your arguing here. Many are saying we are locked up right now for corner. Yes right now. Check it out;
Springs is over 30
Making Big $
Complaining about being a Skin and having to restructure
Injury Prone
Smoot Sucked with Minny
and Rogers was average at best last year

I hardly think this is locked up. And even if they perform great, it's only for this year. I would jump at this if we could get it. This dude is money. Plus you have a real problem on D if you expect your corners to make big tackles. Your D line and backers should be doing the big ugly work.
Just My 2C[/quote]


The defense's biggest problem isn't the secondary it is the line. Bring in Samuel, or hell Deion in his prime, and you will see them get burned if the QB has all day. If they signed Samuel you would still see runningbacks torching them all day long.

They have three legitimate NFL corners. One is an upper tier corner when healthy, another still has a lot of upside and the third had his best year in this system. You have to feel pretty good going into the season with that.

Re: asante samuel
 

well if u want springs to move to safety we need another top corner, otherwise hes staying at corner

Re: asante samuel
 

[quote=Big C;294539]well if u want springs to move to safety we need another top corner, otherwise hes staying at corner[/quote]

Springs makes too much to do that. Springs will play his last year here at corner.

Re: asante samuel
 

The problem is, what would we give up? Sure, the 6th pick, but do the Pats need anyone projected to go that high? They already have Seymour at DE/DT, they just gave Adailus Thomas a big contract, they obviously don't need a QB, they added Stallworth and Wes Welker to the WR corps, they drafted Maroney is the 1st round last year... Unless they are really high on Laron Landry, but they could probably get Reggie Nelson with one of their two 1st round picks and still keep Samuel. And nobody seems to want our 6th pick b/c it has been too hard to trade it down.

Asante Samuel is an amazing story. And undrafted player out of Central Florida who has turned into a franchise player. He had more INTs than our entire friggin' team last year. I don't care about that run support crap. How many corners can take on an NFL running back one on one anyway? Pretty much all of them would get bowled over. If our D-line and linebackers are doing their job and the safeties come up in support, the corner should be the last defensive player responsible for the run. Imagine the trio of Smoot, Rodgers, and Samuel (the starters could be determined by the WR matchups week to week), with Springs and Taylor at the safeties? That's a wet dream. I'd love to have Samuel, but it ain't gonna happen.

Re: asante samuel
 

he is a product of the pats defense. Put him here and i just dont think he is physical enough.

Re: asante samuel
 

Too much money, but if the Skins were considering Briggs, I would rather have AS. We could never have too much talent at CB, just like WR. I wouldn't mind having Rogers behind him. I wasn't overly happy with the pass defense last year, so I say bring him on....but talk the price down some. We have enough money problems coming our way.

Re: asante samuel
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;294545]Asante Samuel is an amazing story. And undrafted player out of Central Florida who has turned into a franchise player. He had more INTs than our entire friggin' team last year. [B]I don't care about that run support crap. How many corners can take on an NFL running back one on one anyway? Pretty much all of them would get bowled over. If our D-line and linebackers are doing their job and the safeties come up in support, the corner should be the last defensive player responsible for the run. [/B][/QUOTE]

Bingo. I don't think anybody blows the "run-stopping corners" out of proportion more than we do here at The Warpath.

Sure it's nice to say that your corners can do that. If you are football player, one of the most basic things they teach you all the way back to pee-wee football is how to tackle. If you are that concerned about your cornerbacks being able to stop the run, then you have problems anyway.

I'm not saying one way or the other about whether we should go after Asante Samuel. Maybe he is too expensive. Maybe it would be nice to have a guy in the secondary who has demonstrated an ability to catch the football better than anyone we have now.

But can we please stop with the bullsh*t about not going after ball-hawking corners who can shut down a receiver because he supposedly can't "stop the run" ?

Re: asante samuel
 

[quote=Beemnseven;294556]Bingo. I don't think anybody blows the "run-stopping corners" out of proportion more than we do here at The Warpath.

Sure it's nice to say that your corners can do that. If you are football player, one of the most basic things they teach you all the way back to pee-wee football is how to tackle. If you are that concerned about your cornerbacks being able to stop the run, then you have problems anyway.

I'm not saying one way or the other about whether we should go after Asante Samuel. Maybe he is too expensive. Maybe it would be nice to have a guy in the secondary who has demonstrated an ability to catch the football better than anyone we have now.

But can we please stop with the bullsh*t about not going after ball-hawking corners who can shut down a receiver because he supposedly can't "stop the run" ?[/quote]

It may be something that gets blown out of proportion a bit around here, but there is some truth to it. Cover 2 corners are typically corners that are a bit more stout against the run. That doesn't mean we should completely rule out going after smaller corners who aren't known for playing the run, but history does show that a guy like Samuel probably isn't an ideal fit in a cover 2 system where he's going to be asked to stick his nose in there against the run quite a bit.

Re: asante samuel
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;294532]Smoot's pretty crappy at run support also. Maybe his signing dictates a willingness to alter our philosophy?[/QUOTE]

Well part of it is actual effort and Smoot showed a lot of that when he was here.

Re: asante samuel
 

Smoot has also bulked up since he left here, whether he keeps that weight on here is something to keep an eye on.

Re: asante samuel
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven;294556]Bingo. I don't think anybody blows the "run-stopping corners" out of proportion more than we do here at The Warpath.

Sure it's nice to say that your corners can do that. If you are football player, one of the most basic things they teach you all the way back to pee-wee football is how to tackle. If you are that concerned about your cornerbacks being able to stop the run, then you have problems anyway.

I'm not saying one way or the other about whether we should go after Asante Samuel. Maybe he is too expensive. Maybe it would be nice to have a guy in the secondary who has demonstrated an ability to catch the football better than anyone we have now.

But can we please stop with the bullsh*t about not going after ball-hawking corners who can shut down a receiver because he supposedly can't "stop the run" ?[/QUOTE]

How is it blowing it out of proportion? It is widely reported and hell we have all seen it with our own eyes. Our defense requires that corners actually be able to make a tackle in open field. It is a 100% pertinent point. Does anyone here actually think that the only reason we didn't go after Samuel was because he offers no help in run support? Had we been blowing it out of proportion something tells me the Skins would have been salivating to get him here yet we never heard word one about that.

Re: asante samuel
 

[quote=FRPLG;294560]Well part of it is actual effort and Smoot showed a lot of that when he was here.[/quote]

Definitely. Smoot showed a lot of toughness the first time around. He was pretty small coming out of college but I remember him playing hard and injured (bruised sternum?). I have confidence in him being a very solid contributor, especially due to the fact that he wanted to come back here after we refused to resign him at his asking price. Asante can go sulk with the Patriots, we don't need him.

Re: Asante Samuel
 

[B] another piece of eye candy that the redskins do'nt need![/B]

Re: Asante Samuel
 

I don't think Samuel is as good at his position as Briggs is at his. Briggs could seriously help shore up one side of the field (not advocating the trade btw), whereas Samuel is good enough to shut down a lot of #1 wr's, but he's not worth the $ he's looking for. If we could get him for under 15mil bonus I'd say it'd be a good deal, but based on what Clements & Bly got, I think Samuel will want something in between, say 18-19 mil. I don't think we need to put that kind of bonus toward anybody right now. IF we have to pay the #6 pick that kind of money, at least we have the draft & salary structure to blame for it since picks 1-5 will dictate salary terms. Another reason it would be good to move down & acquire more, cheaper talent.

Re: Asante Samuel
 

I think Asante Samuel is a good corner. And judging last year's performance, he is head and shoulders above Carlos Rogers.

Is he worth trading down for ? Considering what the redskins want at #6 (and I know that this has been discussed to death with a number of opinions), I think yes - he is worth trading down for.

Is he worth paying for at his probable asking price? I think no, because the redskins seem strapped against the cap, as it is, in future years. And I wouldn't want to unneccessarily sacrifice and cut a good player in the future or limit the options with cap space.

Re: Asante Samuel
 

... so I would not consider trading for him because of cap/salary issues.

Re: Asante Samuel
 

I am all for upgrading our team with any position. but I would have to vote no against this. Samuel is a good corner, but with our addition of smoot, that leaves 3 starting corners and dont think we need 4 starting caliber corners. i dont think that is much an area of concern as other portions of our team. Coverage is as good as the pressure up front. and we all know we had absolutely no pressure. I dont care who you are, champ, Dieon if you have to cover a WR in the NFL for 5 seconds or more, he will get open. If your corners know they only have 2 to 3 seconds before the ball is coming out, then they are much better, or appear to be much better than they are. With no pressure our secondary looked like swiss cheese, and pretty much any NFL team that generates no pressure will too. I think we are fine where we are right now. Hey, here is a crazy thought, if we had some picks we could probably pick up a decent corner in the 2nd or 3rd round! OOPS, i guess that wont happen.

Re: asante samuel
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;294563]How is it blowing it out of proportion? It is widely reported and hell we have all seen it with our own eyes. Our defense requires that corners actually be able to make a tackle in open field. It is a 100% pertinent point. Does anyone here actually think that the only reason we didn't go after Samuel was because he offers no help in run support? Had we been blowing it out of proportion something tells me the Skins would have been salivating to get him here yet we never heard word one about that.[/QUOTE]


I'm saying that I just don't think there's much to this notion that there are corners who are so lacking in run support abilities that they can't make it in [I]this defense.[/I] They won't make it in ANY defense!!! Everybody has to know how to tackle. People who can't won't make it in football. It's my belief that when we all say, "oh, we don't need this cornerback, he can't tackle" -- that's fan-speak. If Gregg Williams' defense is so nuanced to the point that it can't work with prototypical corners, then there would be no cornerbacks on his roster -- there'd be nothing but strong safeties.

And just where is it written that Asante Samuel "can't make a tackle in the open field"? Do we have actual proof of this claim? Would Bill Belichick keep someone on his roster than can't make an open field tackle? Of course not.

That's why all this talk of cornerbacks like Asante Samuel not being suitable for this particular defense in the judgement of Warpathers is absolute nonsense.

Re: asante samuel
 

[quote=Beemnseven;294615]I'm saying that I just don't think there's much to this notion that we cannot bring corners in who can't provide run support. Everybody has to know how to tackle. People who can't won't make it in football. It's my belief that when we all say, "oh, we don't need this cornerback, he can't tackle" -- that's fan-speak. If Gregg Williams' defense is so nuanced to the point that it can't work with prototypical corners, then there would be no cornerbacks on his roster -- there'd be nothing but strong safeties.

And just where is it written that Asante Samuel "can't make a tackle in the open field"? Do we have actual proof of this claim? Would Bill Belichick keep someone on his roster than can't make an open field tackle? Of course not.

That's why all this talk of cornerbacks like Asante Samuel not being suitable for this particular defense in the judgement of Warpathers is absolute nonsense.[/quote]

I think I tend to agree with you here. We talk up how specialized Gregg Williams defense is, but my God, we just need football players.

Re: Asante Samuel
 

Sorry, but there are guys that are cut out for playing in certain systems and I don't think that's fan speak at all.

Cover 2 corners are going to be your bigger corners, guys that can play the run but they don't have to be great in coverage because of the scheme and the help they get from the safeties.

Cover guys are more likely to be the smaller, quicker guys that can survive playing on an island with no help.

And guys like Champ or Clements can do it all.