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Draft: Need vs. Best Player
There wouldn't be this dilemma for a team if the best available choice in the draft was also at a need position, but that is a best case scenario.
The Redskins seem to be in a difficult situation, where there isn't much in terms of elite players at their "need" position (defensive line). So to them, there isn't much value to them with picking at the 6 overall spot. Getting someone lower in the first round would probably get them the same kind of value without giving up too much as far as defensive line talent appears to be in this draft. Question to you all: If the redskins have no other option other than to stay put and draft at #6, would you pick for need or best available (immediate impact or otherwise)? |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=warriorzpath;293864]There wouldn't be this dilemma for a team if the best available choice in the draft was also at a need position, but that is a best case scenario.
The Redskins seem to be in a difficult situation, where there isn't much in terms of elite players at their "need" position (defensive line). So to them, there isn't much value to them with picking at the 6 overall spot. Getting someone lower in the first round would probably get them the same kind of value without giving up too much as far as defensive line talent appears to be in this draft. Question to you all: If the redskins have no other option other than to stay put and draft at #6, would you pick for need or best available (immediate impact or otherwise)?[/quote] need without a doubt |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
With this high of a pick, you absolutely go for need.
Within reason of course, you can't reach for someone with this high of a pick either. |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=Mattyk72;293867]With this high of a pick, you absolutely go for need.
Within reason of course, you can't reach for someone with this high of a pick either.[/quote] Matty, who do you think would be best "need" player at the 6 spot ? |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
You take the best available at a position of need.
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Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
I would say either Branch or Adams
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Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=warriorzpath;293871]Matty, who do you think would be best "need" player at the 6 spot ?[/quote]
Personally I would go for the best available DE/DT |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=FRPLG;293872]You take the best available at a position of need.[/quote]
nice response |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
I always would draft for the best available player.
If each player has a certain amount of wattage in terms of their ability to positively effect their teams performance, would you pick a 10 watt player over a 1000 watt player, just because the 10 watt player is where you have a "need?" The best thing is in my view to accumulate the most overall wattage for your team. Then, with the most wattage possible, you are in the best position to trade other players and so forth to bring your team into balance. |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
One reason I ask this is what happened in last year's draft. It appeared that after the draft, there was a lot of criticism for Houston by picking based on need instead of best available player (Mario Williams instead of Reggie Bush) - enough to pressure (self-imposed ?) Casserly to quit soon after.
Basically, if you were given this scenario again, would you pick Williams or Bush ? And it's okay to cheat and use last year's performance of both the team (Texans/Saints) and players (Williams/Bush) to decide. |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
It depends on the situation of your team. Besides defensive line, we don't have a ton of really weak areas. We should go for the best player available. I don't like it, but we've hidden our defensive line for all but one year. While I think we need to address it eventually, if there's a top tier player there I wouldn't pass it up.
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Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
Alan Branch = Jimmy Kennedy
Amobi Okoye = Fixture at DT for the next 13 years. |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=Dirtbag359;293894]Alan Branch = Jimmy Kennedy
Amobi Okoye = Fixture at DT for the next 13 years.[/quote] I agree. Branch has underacheiver written all over him. |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
we need defense. its plain and simple. Calvin Johnson might bring hi-lites, but adds no more wins. for me, the wins are the thing
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Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=dmek25;293902]we need defense. its plain and simple. Calvin Johnson might bring hi-lites, but adds no more wins. for me, the wins are the thing[/quote]
What about Landry instead of the best defensive lineman/dt/de (whatever you prefer) ? |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=Oakland Red;293878]I always would draft for the best available player.
If each player has a certain amount of wattage in terms of their ability to positively effect their teams performance, would you pick a 10 watt player over a 1000 watt player, just because the 10 watt player is where you have a "need?" The best thing is in my view to accumulate the most overall wattage for your team. Then, with the most wattage possible, you are in the best position to trade other players and so forth to bring your team into balance.[/quote] Wattage. Interesting. Well, if my choices are 1000 "watts" vs 10 "watts", what you're really telling me is one guy is 100 times better than the other. Well yeah, duh, I'll take the 1000 watt guy. But there are no prospects on the board who are 100 times better than the others. Not even close. Calvin Johnson included. Of course, Calvin is a moot point for us, he'll be gone by the time we pick. With that in mind, I'd stick to need. Our biggest need is depth at multiple spots, DT being the biggest need IMO. I'd trade down if possible. Otherwise, stick at 6 and pick DT. |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
I don't like the idea of trading Betts but the deal brings you a 3rd round pick that you don't have. If Lloyd could be substituted for Betts then yeah lets do it. Calvin Johnson upgrades your entire offense. Teams would have to pay attention to him which opens up the offense for Cooley, Moss, Portis, and Randel El. Campbell has a big target receiver that he can work with. No more stacking 8 in the box because you have to back up for wither Moss or a 4.3 running 6'5 tall Calvin Johnson. Who's left to cover Cooley underneath or Portis in the flat ? Seriously, the passing game would be upragded. Given the chance that it's Lloyd instead of Betts now, you use your 3rd round pick to get your DL. I know it's not going to be a baller like Okoye but you never know. Just like you never know about Johnson or any other player out of the draft.
This all given the fact that it's not Ladell Betts. It depends on the situation. But if you can ship Lloyd out instead of Betts then you do that to get Calvin Johnson,....AND A 3RD ROUNDER !!!!!! Oh yeah, take that one. So in that case draft player but anyother I say need. However, in the case of Madden. DRAFT CALVIN JOHNSON !!!! Not since the days of Darnerian McCants have I had a tall WR to throw to. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF MADDEN 08 DRAFT CALVIN JOHNSON !!!! |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[QUOTE=dmek25;293902]we need defense. its plain and simple. Calvin Johnson might bring hi-lites, but adds no more wins. for me, the wins are the thing[/QUOTE]
why couldn't he bring wins? I mean a good wide reciever changes offense, Santana Moss pretty much won us the jag game last year and the dallas game the year before that |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=warriorzpath;293906]What about Landry instead of the best defensive lineman/dt/de (whatever you prefer) ?[/quote]
in my opinion, Gaines Adams works the best for the redskins. instant pass rush = better secondary play. with fletcher, we have a bon a fide run stopping middle linebacker. Landry is a nice player, but will be making too many tackles 10+ yards down field. why do you thing Sean Taylor had so many tackles last season? no resistance from the front four. and how long has it been since the skins had a pass rusher? dexter manley? |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=dmek25;293924]in my opinion, Gaines Adams works the best for the redskins. instant pass rush = better secondary play. with fletcher, we have a bon a fide run stopping middle linebacker. Landry is a nice player, but will be making too many tackles 10+ yards down field. why do you thing Sean Taylor had so many tackles last season? no resistance from the front four. and how long has it been since the skins had a pass rusher? dexter manley?[/quote]
Do you think that Gaines Adams will equal to instant pash rush ? (Not being argumentative, just interested in different perspectives) |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[QUOTE=warriorzpath;293906]What about Landry instead of the best defensive lineman/dt/de (whatever you prefer) ?[/QUOTE]
If the outer walls and the drawbridge to your castle are crumbling, what good is it to strengthen the King's quarters? |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
I'd go with best player available. We need a defensive tackle with some talent to pair alongside Griffin as well as a defensive end who can rush the passer. Which is a bigger need? Not that who's the better player is any easier of a question...
If the Skins stay put, which means that the Danny has resisted his urge to make a splash, then any pick outside of the d-line will be redundant. Can't pick Calvin Johnson after having spent $60 mil and two picks on wideouts last year. I think D-end, d-tackle in that order. |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=warriorzpath;293929]Do you think that Gaines Adams will equal to instant pash rush ? (Not being argumentative, just interested in different perspectives)[/quote]
yes. it seems like some players just have it. the ability to get to the qback. i think adams has it |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
It's ok to buy a new TV even though the couch could use an upgrade.
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Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=Beemnseven;293940]If the outer walls and the drawbridge to your castle are crumbling, what good is it to strengthen the King's quarters?[/quote]
I don't know - I guess to hold off the orgs until Frodo gets to the top of the volcano and throws the precious in. Sorry for the little tongue-in-cheek, but I'm not really familiar with medieval warfare and strategies. |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
Maybe the best thing for the redskins right now is some simplicity. And the simple choice is picking out of "need", which is defensive line and more specifically at defensive end.
Hopefully, the redskins don't have another archuletta year at strong safety and the defensive end that is drafted is able to spark some pash rush. |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[QUOTE=dmek25;293924]in my opinion, Gaines Adams works the best for the redskins. instant pass rush = better secondary play. with fletcher, we have a bon a fide run stopping middle linebacker. Landry is a nice player, but will be making too many tackles 10+ yards down field. why do you thing Sean Taylor had so many tackles last season? no resistance from the front four. and how long has it been since the skins had a pass rusher? dexter manley?[/QUOTE]
At least you are saying we need to address the DE situation. I say that no matter what we need to fill this hole, and it's a MASSIVE hole. I am flabbergasted that more people don't recognize this and we are still talking about other possibilities. That being said, I think Gaines would be the wrong choice. I like Jamaal Anderson better and think he'd be better over the long haul. Mainly because I think Gaines is too small weight wise. Anderson has 30 pounds on him and would be better at getting through the defender. DOn't get me wrong...if we take Gaines, I'll be happy, but I'll be happier if we take Anderson. |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=dmek25;293902]we need defense. its plain and simple. Calvin Johnson might bring hi-lites, but adds no more wins. for me, the wins are the thing[/quote]
Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne helped to bring a superbowl to Indy, and there defense sucked |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
All of this Draft/Trade/Briggs/Lemar/Betts/Gaines/CJ/Quinn talk is givin me a f****** headache. I am going to have to stop reading this forum for a couple of weeks. Drink myself into a coma and back to sobriety again, wake up on April 30th to watch the draft only to realize that "holy crap we did draft a DE!" You guys are killing me with speculation. By the way, Smootsmack, how long did it take you to change back to Smootsmack from TAFKAS? I wasn't here for that.
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Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[QUOTE=angryssg;294027]All of this Draft/Trade/Briggs/Lemar/Betts/Gaines/CJ/Quinn talk is givin me a f****** headache. I am going to have to stop reading this forum for a couple of weeks. Drink myself into a coma and back to sobriety again, wake up on April 30th to watch the draft only to realize that "holy crap we did draft a DE!" You guys are killing me with speculation. By the way, Smootsmack, how long did it take you to change back to Smootsmack from TAFKAS? I wasn't here for that.[/QUOTE]
Matter of minutes |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=SmootSmack;294028]Matter of minutes[/quote]
You are a dedicated and respectable fan, but you have no life. I mean that in the nicest way though. |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[QUOTE=angryssg;294029]You are a dedicated and respectable fan, but you have no life. I mean that in the nicest way though.[/QUOTE]
Wow. What? |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=SmootSmack;294030]Wow. What?[/quote]
Oh crap I just got banned! |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=GiantsSuck703;294020]Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne helped to bring a superbowl to Indy, and there defense sucked[/quote]
they didnt win the superbowl until they learned how to stop someone. |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
The point I wanted to make is that I think you want to draft for the most value - then you have the most value to work with, and can adjust your roster through free agency and trades later. To draft for need, you miss the much higher wattage player available when you make your pick if he isn't at your position of "need."
So, yes, last year the Texans could have drafted Reggie Bush. Most would say Reggie Bush was the higher wattage player than Mario Williams, who got 4 and a half sacks last year. The Texans would have had more overall team wattage if they had. They could have then engaged in trades and used free agency to balance their roster. No, I am not saying that Reggie Bush had 100 times more talent wattage than M. Williams - I wasn't being specific about any players, and was using a metaphor to make a point. [quote=Schneed10;293916]Wattage. Interesting. Well, if my choices are 1000 "watts" vs 10 "watts", what you're really telling me is one guy is 100 times better than the other. Well yeah, duh, I'll take the 1000 watt guy. But there are no prospects on the board who are 100 times better than the others. Not even close. Calvin Johnson included. Of course, Calvin is a moot point for us, he'll be gone by the time we pick. With that in mind, I'd stick to need. Our biggest need is depth at multiple spots, DT being the biggest need IMO. I'd trade down if possible. Otherwise, stick at 6 and pick DT.[/quote] |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
It's been said before, but the Lions ignored need, and drafted the "best player available" with Charles Rogers, Roy Williams and Mike Williams.
You cannot ignore your needs. |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
drafting a player based on a need works well in a perfect world....i say you draft the best player available when you pick. Regardless of position.
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Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=vaoutlaws2006;294044]drafting a player based on a need works well in a perfect world....i say you draft the best player available when you pick. Regardless of position.[/quote]So you'd take Brady Quinn if he fell?
Kinda useless when you have Campbell there. They are both going to be good QBs in a year or two, but you can only play one. |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
[quote=vaoutlaws2006;294044]drafting a player based on a need works well in a perfect world....i say you draft the best player available when you pick. Regardless of position.[/quote]
That makes no sense. Why would we spend the 6th overall pick on a QB or RB for example? |
Re: Draft: Need vs. Best Player
After reading some of these posts, I think what it comes down to is that it depends what situation the team is in and what is available. To me, this year's decision wasn't so obvious. There appeared to be some big concerns that needed to be addressed. One of these concerns would hopefully be resolved by the sixth overall draft pick.
I think there was an agreement that the biggest need for the redskins was defensive end (pash rush). But there wasn't an agreement for a draft prospect that clearly was the best, which to me meant that there wasn't an elite, sure-fire impact player at de. At wr (Calvin Johnson) and safety (Landry and maybe a couple of others), there are elite players that appear to have the talent to make an immediate impact. I think what matters the most is what you think would give you the most wins for the up and coming season (unless you were looking for a qb or olineman, which I think takes more time and investment). Even considering all of this, since the redskins have so much going on, I think that they should just try to simplify things as much as they can - which is picking the best defensive end in the draft. But that would be my approach to the draft, it is not basing everything on need and not basing everything on the best available player (regardless of position) - but to look at everything involved and pick based on what would give the team the most wins next season. |
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