What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

I've been pondering that question in light of the fact that we're out of the playoffs and many of us on Warpath have begun to discuss the off season and the 2007 campaign.

But what would be considered a successful 2007 season for a team coming off a losing record? [B][COLOR=blue]Would 8-8 be considered a success? How about if we went 9-7, yet still missed the playoffs?[/COLOR][/B]

I'm torn between what I would [I]like[/I] the Redskins to do and what I should realistically [I]expect[/I] them to do.

Assuming modest upgrades here and there, and Jason Campbell progressing, how do we actually guauge whether this team turned it around.

Please feel free to weigh in, and Mods please feel free to start a poll.

[FONT=Courier New][COLOR=red]12M[/COLOR][/FONT]

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

i think that since jc got to play this year, next year will not be as rocky as i would of first imagined. thank gob gibbs saw the light about the future.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=dall-assblows;264247]i think that since jc got to play this year, next year will not be as rocky as i would of first imagined. thank gob gibbs saw the light about the future.[/quote]


But if you had to nail it down in down to an actual record, what would you say?

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

I think that we should have a good year next year. Our O looks as if they are starting to click, Betts will see more playing time, the line looks strong, and JC is starting to come around. Our special teams have played very strong and we do not have alot of players to re-sign. If our D can add a few players I think they will be ok and we will get an easy schedual.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=12thMan;264248]But if you had to nail it down in down to an actual record, what would you say?[/quote]

well we expected alot this year i would say 10-6 11-5. i expected a lot this year so i expect big things next year. our team has as much, if not more talent than any other team. there is no reason to be as bad as we look

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

I would consider a solid team that makes it to the playoffs a success. Not a team that must win the last 5 games for a shot but a team that typically wins 3 out of 4 games. In short, a 11-5 record would be great for me and I would be satisfied at 10-6. This is considering the talent that we already have and the fact that Coach has said he's going to fix "it" before he leaves.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

Top 5 offense
Top 15 defense
10+ wins

Campbell has shown very positive glimpses his skills and abilities that should greatly improve with a full offseason getting all of the snaps with the 1st string offense. Portis and Betts are a dangerous combo in the backfield, Sellers should have gotten some pro bowl consideration and I think will emerge next year as one of the elite blocking FB in the game. Moss and Cooley are reliable and Randel-El is a playmaker in the passing game. The OL is one of the top in the game so a top 5 offense isn't too far fetched.

The defense needs to remake the secondary, move Springs to FS, Taylor to SS, sign Clements and a strong 3rd CB & draft depth.. Try to find a MLB somewhere, start McIntosh from the OTAs so he gets all the reps.. Get a starting DE/DL with our top 10 pick and keep the DL depth we have. It's hard to beleive we won't get more than 12 turnovers again since the NFL record is 15 (which we will likely break).

On the field we were about 10 plays from being a 9 win team (Minn, Tenn, Philly, Atlanta, St. Louis were winnable games) so a rebound to 10+ wins is a stretch but not completely unfathomable.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=Paintrain;264256]Top 5 offense
Top 15 defense
10+ wins

Campbell has shown very positive glimpses his skills and abilities that should greatly improve with a full offseason getting all of the snaps with the 1st string offense. Portis and Betts are a dangerous combo in the backfield, Sellers should have gotten some pro bowl consideration and I think will emerge next year as one of the elite blocking FB in the game. Moss and Cooley are reliable and Randel-El is a playmaker in the passing game. The OL is one of the top in the game so a top 5 offense isn't too far fetched.

The defense needs to remake the secondary, move Springs to FS, Taylor to SS, sign Clements and a strong 3rd CB & draft depth.. Try to find a MLB somewhere, start McIntosh from the OTAs so he gets all the reps.. Get a starting DE/DL with our top 10 pick and keep the DL depth we have. It's hard to beleive we won't get more than 12 turnovers again since the NFL record is 15 (which we will likely break).

On the field we were about 10 plays from being a 9 win team (Minn, Tenn, Philly, Atlanta, St. Louis were winnable games) so a rebound to 10+ wins is a stretch but not completely unfathomable.[/quote]


Good breakdown. I'm hoping and wishing for 10-6...9-7 shouldn't break our hearts either.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

man if our defense could catch, we would hav at least 8 or 9 more picks

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

If we fix up the defense, then 10+ wins should be the expectation. If not, expect more like 7 wins.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

I'd say 10 wins next year would be a success. Like others have said - the last place schedule will be better - plus we are playing the AFC East next year which I think the Skins can easily go 3-1 (losing to the Pats and beating the rest). Plus is the kicking game goes smoothly that probably adds 2 wins right there.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

I agree with the general thoughts here. 10+ wins.
If we fail to reach the playoffs next year, we failed as a team.

If we see another 5-8 win season, expect HUGE changes. Gibbs retirement, being the biggest. Most coaches being fired. Probably an overhaul on offense and defense. Basically we don't want to see us fail next year for the fact of how far it will set us back in terms of changes.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

Anything less than the playoffs is always a disaster.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=jsarno;264263]I agree with the general thoughts here. 10+ wins.
If we fail to reach the playoffs next year, we failed as a team.

If we see another 5-8 win season, expect HUGE changes. Gibbs retirement, being the biggest. Most coaches being fired. Probably an overhaul on offense and defense. Basically we don't want to see us fail next year for the fact of how far it will set us back in terms of changes.[/quote]

Jsarno - does the changes you have in mind include a new GM/FO overhaul which would also include the firing of Vinny Cerrato?

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[QUOTE=Bill B;264267]Jsarno - does the changes you have in mind include a new GM/FO overhaul which would also include the firing of Vinny Cerrato?[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure, but I would certainly think those changes could occur. I really feel Snyder is on the edge of his seat. This team has been set up for success in terms of talent and coaching, if they fail again, 07 will be the last season we see with all these players and coaches. I think all the progression we've seen from Snyder will go out the window and his "we must win now" attitude will come back.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=dall-assblows;264258]man if our defense could catch, we would hav at least 8 or 9 more picks[/quote]
Every time they drop one I jusy say "Well we know why their not WR's" With that said we our coaches to work with them in catching drill which I do not know if NFL teams do but if any D needs the pratice its ours.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=jsarno;264263]I agree with the general thoughts here. 10+ wins.
If we fail to reach the playoffs next year, we failed as a team.

If we see another 5-8 win season, expect HUGE changes. Gibbs retirement, being the biggest. Most coaches being fired. Probably an overhaul on offense and defense. Basically we don't want to see us fail next year for the fact of how far it will set us back in terms of changes.[/quote]

If Joe Gibbs, Gregg Williams, and Al Saunders can't get it done here, who the hell can??? It's not the coaching. It's the QB position. Brunell wouldn't threaten deep down the field, and Campbell is still learning.

We go as far as Campbell takes us. I think he can win 10 games after a full offseason of work.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

Those hoping for an easy schedule are in for a rude awakening.

While we have pansies like Arizona and Detroit at home, and yet another away game at Tampa Bay, we'll be at New England, at the Jets, at Green Bay, and at Minnesota.

At home we've got Arizona, Buffalo, Miami, Chicago.

That's tough.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;264272]Those hoping for an easy schedule are in for a rude awakening.

While we have pansies like Arizona and Detroit at home, and yet another away game at Tampa Bay, we'll be at New England, at the Jets, at Green Bay, and at Minnesota.

At home we've got Arizona, Buffalo, Miami, Chicago.

That's tough.[/quote]

I have been wondering - why do we always have to play at Tampa Bay - when was the last time we got them at Fed EX?

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;264272]Those hoping for an easy schedule are in for a rude awakening.

While we have pansies like Arizona and Detroit at home, and yet another away game at Tampa Bay, we'll be at New England, at the Jets, at [B]Green Bay[/B], and at Minnesota.

At home we've got Arizona, Buffalo, Miami, Chicago.

That's tough.[/quote]
green bay isn't good. plus if farve is gone it will definetly be a W

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=Bill B;264274]I have been wondering - why do we always have to play at Tampa Bay - when was the last time we got them at Fed EX?[/quote]

portis's first game as a REDskins

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;264271]If Joe Gibbs, Gregg Williams, and Al Saunders can't get it done here, who the hell can??? It's not the coaching. It's the QB position. Brunell wouldn't threaten deep down the field, and Campbell is still learning.

We go as far as Campbell takes us. I think he can win 10 games after a full offseason of work.[/QUOTE]

EVERYTHING is about coaching! If Campbell doesn't produce (for instance) then the coaches need to break down what he's doing wrong and coach him to success. If they leave him alone to figure it out on his own, do you think he'll ever be successful? Heck no!
If the offense doesn't do well there are other reasons...we have all the tools, saunders said so himself. So it will be on his shoulders to succeed.
Williams is getting rammed for his defense this year, and in some cases, rightfully so. He hasn't made good adjustments for holes he has in his D, but he has had injuries. A bottom 3 defense is horrible. If something is not working, then the only way to fix it is by coaching. The coaches are the generals, they run the show...if they fail, then it's their flaws that failed. The players obviously have faults in this, but coaches need to adjust to the strengths and flaws of players.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

I'd like to see guys working harder in the off season. I seem to recall a very lackadaisical training camp, not playing in pads, no contact, etc. There seemed to be an attitude that the team was good last year, we'd be good this year, so why work hard in camp? There was a sense of entitlement that really shouldn't have been there.

I think this team is on the brink of being great. The offense is RIGHT there and only needs very minor adjustments. The defense needs some personnel adjustments, and most of all and attitude adjustment. If those elements come together, I think 11-5 is entirely possible.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

if we dont go undefeated, win the superbowl, and send 25 players to the probowl then i consider this year a failure. i mean wouldn't you?

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=mheisig;264286]I'd like to see guys working harder in the off season. I seem to recall a very lackadaisical training camp, not playing in pads, no contact, etc. There seemed to be an attitude that the team was good last year, we'd be good this year, so why work hard in camp? There was a sense of entitlement that really shouldn't have been there.

I think this team is on the brink of being great. The offense is RIGHT there and only needs very minor adjustments. The defense needs some personnel adjustments, and most of all and attitude adjustment. If those elements come together, I think 11-5 is entirely possible.[/quote]


I believe Gibbs has already commented that training camp will be very different next year - 2 a days will be starting a lot earlier and the Skins would be implementing/practicing a lot of their plays in preseason instead of trying to "hide things" like they did this year.

What will be different is the expectiation level will be very low for the team compared to this year. I would venture to say most publications will have our team coming in last in the NFC East and a record of 4-12 to 7-9 will be forecasted. Hopefully JC progresses fast and we come right out of the blocks with a smash mouth identity first and pound opponents into the ground. My thought is you got some pretty decent backs - why not run 35-40 times a game until the opposing defense surrenders - plus our lineman have already stated that this is what they love to do.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[QUOTE=Bill B;264293]I believe Gibbs has already commented that training camp will be very different next year - 2 a days will be starting a lot earlier and the Skins would be implementing/practicing a lot of their plays in preseason instead of trying to "hide things" like they did this year.
[/QUOTE]

That's what makes Gibbs a good coach, he's constantly trying to correct things...he realizes that he messed up and he's going to try to fix it.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;264266]Anything less than the playoffs is always a disaster.[/quote]


AMEN!

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

rather they win saturday night and go 6-10 or 5-11 i would like to see this team do a 360 and run the record the other way around in 2007 but i guess we will have to wait and see what happens before then.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=Schneed10;264271]If Joe Gibbs, Gregg Williams, and Al Saunders can't get it done here, who the hell can??? It's not the coaching. It's the QB position. Brunell wouldn't threaten deep down the field, and Campbell is still learning.

We go as far as Campbell takes us. I think he can win 10 games after a full offseason of work.[/quote]
this is the most logical, thought out posted here, ever

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

10-6 to me is a good team and it is usually good enough to make the playoffs. To me 10-6 is a good season...

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;264266]Anything less than the playoffs is always a disaster.[/quote]

Making the playoffs doesn't mean it isn't a disaster, though. 8-8 will make the playoffs this year - would that be a success next year? Obviously not. Playoffs are a component, and it's good you bring that up, but we need to rack up some wins too.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=onlydarksets;264310]Making the playoffs doesn't mean it isn't a disaster, though. 8-8 will make the playoffs this year - would that be a success next year? Obviously not. Playoffs are a component, and it's good you bring that up, but we need to rack up some wins too.[/quote]

This is what I'm trying to get at, sort of. Is a successful season gauged by total number of victories or a playoff appearance?

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

It's hand-in-hand. There have been 2 teams with 10+ wins that haven't made it to the playoffs in the last 5 years, and every 10+ win team this year will make the playoffs. If 97% of 10+ win seasons mean a playoff appearance, then 10+ wins next season almost guarantees a playoff spot.

So, I would say 10+ wins is a successful season. If we don't make the playoffs with 10 wins, it's a fluke. If we make the playoffs with 8 wins, then that's a fluke, and not a successful season.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

10-6 should definitely be expected whether if it is good enough to make the playoffs or not.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[quote=12thMan;264313]This is what I'm trying to get at, sort of. Is a successful season gauged by total number of victories or a playoff appearance?[/quote]
to me, its about getting into the playoffs. once in, anything can happen

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;264343]to me, its about getting into the playoffs. once in, anything can happen[/QUOTE]

I can sort of agree with that too, although having a better record is "Supposed" to make it easier for a team to get through the playoffs, but you are right...once in anything can happen.

I just want to go back to the feeling I had in Gibbs I where each and every Sunday, you expected the Redskins to win, and if they lost, then it was unusual!

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;264266]Anything less than the playoffs is always a disaster.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

With the talent we have on this team, thats gotta be a minimum. We have the talent to win in this league, and against the teams we play. I only really saw us outmatched once and that was against Indianapolis and the first game against Dallas/Philly; other than that there isnt a game I can look at and say we shouldnt have won.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

I'd say anything 10-6 and a playoff win would be a success. But if the NFC doesn't improve much on this season, our schedule works out in our favor a bit and we stay healthy I really really think we have 11-5/12-4 type talent. The key is that everything needs to click with no injuries. I do not think an NFC chapionship appearance is a stretch and if you make it to that game then who the heck knows. essentially I'll have similar expectations that I had this year. I see no reason to have lower expectations.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

I think the offense picks it up, gets into the top ten, and I'll even venture to say there will be slight improvement with the D (how much worse can it get?).

Still, there are too many problems with the team overall, and not enough solutions.

7 - 9.

Re: What's Considered Success for Next Season?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;264271]If Joe Gibbs, Gregg Williams, and Al Saunders can't get it done here, who the hell can??? It's not the coaching. It's the QB position. Brunell wouldn't threaten deep down the field, and Campbell is still learning.

We go as far as Campbell takes us. I think he can win 10 games after a full offseason of work.[/QUOTE]

I think it is a combo coaching and QB. I used to think it was more coaching but the last several seasosn around the league have made me a realize how black and white the qb position is for an NFL team. With a QB playing well you have a chance to win every game. With him playing poorly you have a chance to win maybe half your games if you have a good defense and decent players around him. To be successful with a poor or even mediocre QB you need a stellar defense. (See Balt and Chi)

It seems that a lot of people think the QB position is overrated but I think if anything it is underrated. Take Peyton off of Indy and they are a 8-8/9-7 team at best. Put him on Arizona and they win 11-12 games. Same in Minny.

I think though you also have to have good coaching with a solid scheme. The more and more I see Seattle and Philly play the more I realize how flawed their offenses are. I don't think it is a coincidence that their performance is all over the map the last 4 years. Even with good QBs they struggle to over come limited offensive shcemes and sometimes shoddy coaching.

The Pats are a perfect example. They really haven't been super talented but they have a great scheme on both sides of the ball, quality coaching and a super QB.

Basically to me good coaching and scheming overcome the spots where you have mediocre players. But the scheme or coach can't overcome having a poor QB. You need both to compete year in and year out.