No Audibles
 

Are we the only team in the NFL that does not call audibles?
E-girls blitz all day and we never adjust.
I never see an audible.
We just totally suck.

Re: No Audibles
 

[QUOTE=rickmmrr;243918]Are we the only team in the NFL that does not call audibles?
E-girls blitz all day and we never adjust.
I never see an audible.
We just totally suck.[/QUOTE]

That would require Brunell to think about it. He is too worried about getting hit, and throwing the ball away.

Re: No Audibles
 

It has nothing to do with Brunell, blame Saunders for no audibles in his system.

Lay off Brunell, we know he sucks.

Re: No Audibles
 

Too many pages in the playbook!

Re: No Audibles
 

maybe he didn't think he needed to change the play.

Re: No Audibles
 

All those passing plays have plans for what to do when the D blitzes. It worked fine in KC--and recall that Brunnell wasn't sacked toaday. The iggles blitzed on that one long throw to Lloyd, so if the blitz is handeled properly, it's an opportunity to make plays. We didn't handle the blitz well, no doubt. But it's not like this system isn't designed for blitzes. My guess is MB gets "happy feet" and misses the hot read. And the line missed some blitz pickups. Sure, we could have seen better play-calling. BUt without execution, it won't help.

As for the short throws, there is always more than one wideout in those sets. Brunnell just takes the first thing he sees, and that's that. MB doesn't want to get hit, so he takes the quick short read unless he clearly has all day. My guess is Campbell will take more hits and make more plays. And that will slow the blitz.

Re: No Audibles
 

He's Right I Never See Any Audibles Get Called

Re: No Audibles
 

The problem with hot reads against the Eagles is that they want to force you into them. That's the idea. Same with Greg Williams. They blitz to get the ball out of the QB's hand quickly. Based on the formation, they can pretty well guess who the hot read is and get on top of it right away. That's why Rogers being 15 yards off the receiver is so bizarre. The hot read can be a fade which is what they must have thought the Eagles would try to do to Rogers, but it's usually not when you give them all that room. Our corners need to show different looks. Start off giving a cushion and then come up right before the snap or vice versa. We made it easy at times.

There were a couple of times in the first half today when Brunell didn't need to check or audible but just call a TO. Everyone watching could see the blitz coming and could tell we wouldn't be able to stop them. Go to the sideline and get another play. Sometimes the defense will back off figuring you will max protect. And, timeouts are not so valuable in the first half. Points are.

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote=3rd ID SOLDIER;243982]He's Right I Never See Any Audibles Get Called[/quote]

Again, this offense does not have audibles.

Re: No Audibles
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;244004]Again, this offense does not have audibles.[/QUOTE]

boggles me this can happen in the modern NFL. KC never called audibles??

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote=illdefined;244005]boggles me this can happen in the modern NFL. KC never called audibles??[/quote]

I think that Saunders tries to design his plays so that they are immune to any look the defense gives. Shades of Spurrier. Spurrier would have tried to block Demarcus Ware with Christian Fauria too.

What a depressing thought. Saunders is Steve Spurrier without the combination routes. He's Horizontal Spurrier.

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote=JWsleep;243977]All those passing plays have plans for what to do when the D blitzes. It worked fine in KC--and recall that Brunnell wasn't sacked toaday. The iggles blitzed on that one long throw to Lloyd, so if the blitz is handeled properly, it's an opportunity to make plays. We didn't handle the blitz well, no doubt. But it's not like this system isn't designed for blitzes. My guess is MB gets "happy feet" and misses the hot read. And the line missed some blitz pickups. Sure, we could have seen better play-calling. BUt without execution, it won't help.

As for the short throws, there is always more than one wideout in those sets. Brunnell just takes the first thing he sees, and that's that. MB doesn't want to get hit, so he takes the quick short read unless he clearly has all day. My guess is Campbell will take more hits and make more plays. And that will slow the blitz.[/quote]

What the good QB's do is they move and slide in the pocket. Brady, Brees and Manning do it really well. They can feel the pressure, slide and stand tall in the pocket and make an accurate throw under pressure. Audibles are something that are needed in any offense so I'm not sure why this system does not have any. I played highschool football and we even had audibles in our system. Simply pathetic.

Re: No Audibles
 

i think if the redskins had run the same offense they did last year this season with gibbs calling the plays,the redskins may have been undefeated up to this point.i think gibbs misjudged what a good play caller he was,and overestimated saunders!

Re: No Audibles
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;244009]I think that Saunders tries to design his plays so that they are immune to any look the defense gives. Shades of Spurrier. Spurrier would have tried to block Demarcus Ware with Christian Fauria too.

What a depressing thought. Saunders is Steve Spurrier without the combination routes. He's Horizontal Spurrier.[/QUOTE]

at least Spurrier knew the direction of the endzone. christ did i just say that??

i don't believe Saunder's offense was purely horizontal, i remember plenty of downfield, over the middle shots to Gonzalez. Cooley should be that guy here, he has some of the same ability.

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote=illdefined;244045]at least Spurrier knew the direction of the endzone. christ did i just say that??

i don't believe Saunder's offense was purely horizontal, i remember plenty of downfield, over the middle shots to Gonzalez. Cooley should be that guy here, he has some of the same ability.[/quote]

You guys have to realize that Saunders is not running the offese he want's to. KC the last four or five years were always a top ten rushing/passing offense. It all starts with the QB. And if you don't have the trigger man then it just does not work.

Re: No Audibles
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;244064]You guys have to realize that Saunders is not running the offese he want's to. KC the last four or five years were always a top ten rushing/passing offense. It all starts with the QB. And if you don't have the trigger man then it just does not work.[/QUOTE]

oh that last part i think we ALL realize.

Re: No Audibles
 

Why audible? its not like the line blocks anyway.

Re: No Audibles
 

Forget Audibles, they don't even seem to have hot reads. On good teams, the WRs and QB have this look they give each other. We on the other hand have this Nazi system that has no flexibility. You can't blame the players for that. I wish Gibbs would take over. Perhaps then we might win.

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote=redskinsfanatic;244030]i think if the redskins had run the same offense they did last year this season with gibbs calling the plays,the redskins may have been undefeated up to this point.i think gibbs misjudged what a good play caller he was,and overestimated saunders![/quote]

I actually thought Gibbs was not doing a good job calling plays. Way too conservative.

Re: No Audibles
 

[QUOTE=Crat92;243929]Too many pages in the playbook![/QUOTE]

Audibles are on pages 710-715 of the 700 page playbook

Re: No Audibles
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;244064]You guys have to realize that Saunders is not running the offese he want's to. KC the last four or five years were always a top ten rushing/passing offense. It all starts with the QB. And if you don't have the trigger man then it just does not work.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.. Trent Green is twice the QB Brunold is. He's not afraid to throw the ball down the field, stand in the pocket and take a hit to deliver the ball, use that huge green area between the hash marks, throw to more than 2 receivers in one game. Doing those things and using the screen game (where is the HB screen?) open up the running game significantly.

Re: No Audibles
 

So if Brunell was to be allowed to call audibles what is it that you guys think he would audile to? A quick check-down maybe? Is that what we want? I think that these are already built into the play.

If anything, he should call out his protections the way Manning does.

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote]i think if the redskins had run the same offense they did last year this season with gibbs calling the plays,the redskins may have been undefeated up to this point.i think gibbs misjudged what a good play caller he was,and overestimated saunders![/quote]

I hope this is a joke. Did you see our offense last year? Our PPG was awful, the playcalling was awful, and we broke an NFL record for lowest offense in a playoff game. After that tampa playoff game both teams should have been eliminated.

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote=Paintrain;244197]Exactly.. Trent Green is twice the QB Brunold is. He's not afraid to throw the ball down the field, stand in the pocket and take a hit to deliver the ball, use that huge green area between the hash marks, throw to more than 2 receivers in one game. Doing those things and using the screen game (where is the HB screen?) open up the running game significantly.[/quote]


You should check your statistics before you spout off and try to tell us things you do NOT know.
# 8 Mark Brunell [URL="http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/WAS"][IMG]http://images.nfl.com/images/helmets/134x121/WAS.gif[/IMG][/URL] [IMG]http://images.nfl.com/images/players/60x80/1032.jpg[/IMG] Position: QB
Height: 6-1
Weight: 217
Born: 09/17/1970
College: Washington
NFL Experience: 14






31,826 career passing yards compared with Trent's 25,711

p.s. Look it up, they both were born in 1970.
sorry you lose

Hail
44

Re: No Audibles
 

[QUOTE=PhxRedSkin;244319]You should check your statistics before you spout off and try to tell us things you do NOT know.
# 8 Mark Brunell [URL="http://www.nfl.com/teams/news/WAS"][IMG]http://images.nfl.com/images/helmets/134x121/WAS.gif[/IMG][/URL] [IMG]http://images.nfl.com/images/players/60x80/1032.jpg[/IMG] Position: QB
Height: 6-1
Weight: 217
Born: 09/17/1970
College: Washington
NFL Experience: 14






31,826 career passing yards compared with Trent's 25,711

p.s. Look it up, they both were born in 1970.
sorry you lose

Hail
44[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the Brunell profile, and it is relevant how? At any point in the past 6 years I'd rather have Trent Green over Brunell.. He is a better QB, especially for this system..

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote=Mattyk72;244004]Again, this offense does not have audibles.[/quote]
how do you know this? was it something that saunders or coach gibbs said? if its true, which i doubt, we are the only team in organized football that doesnt have some sort of audible system. i guess our playcalling is so indestructable that no matter what defense is being played, the offense will work. what a ajoke

Re: No Audibles
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;244325]how do you know this? was it something that saunders or coach gibbs said? if its true, which i doubt, we are the only team in organized football that doesnt have some sort of audible system. i guess our playcalling is so indestructable that no matter what defense is being played, the offense will work. what a ajoke[/QUOTE]

I don't know the answer to your first question. But how do you know we are the only team in organized football that doesn't audible?

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote=dmek25;244325]how do you know this? was it something that saunders or coach gibbs said? if its true, which i doubt, we are the only team in organized football that doesnt have some sort of audible system. i guess our playcalling is so indestructable that no matter what defense is being played, the offense will work. what a ajoke[/quote]

It's been pretty well documented, here's some chatter from a Chiefs board when Saunders was there.

[quote]All scheme, no adjustments. The fact this offense has no audibles is Exhibit A that Saunders is just like Mike Martz...arrogant.[/quote]

[url=http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/archive/index.php/t-127862]ChiefsPlanet[/url]

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote=TAFKAS;244348]I don't know the answer to your first question. But how do you know we are the only team in organized football that doesn't audible?[/quote]
all teams at least make adjustments at the line of scrimmage, at least to change the direction of the running plays, against the overloaded side of the formation. my son played a team midget football last year, and that team had audibles. i wonder why an nfl team, with the top athletes in the world, wouldnt have the power to audible out of a play that they know is doomed to fail, right from the beginning? is al saunders that egotistical that he thinks his plays will work no matter what defense is being used?

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote=dmek25;244325]how do you know this? was it something that saunders or coach gibbs said? if its true, which i doubt, we are the only team in organized football that doesnt have some sort of audible system. i guess our playcalling is so indestructable that no matter what defense is being played, the offense will work. what a ajoke[/quote]

Read something by Lombardi, Allen, Baugh, Jurgensen....Cooke....about the traditional system. NO AUDIBLES. Look at Gibbs at San Diego State and Tampa Bay. NO AUDIBLES. Gibbs allowed Ramsey to audible 2 years ago....jog your memory and do your history before you spew nonsense.

Hail
44

Re: No Audibles
 

p.s. We do have an audible system now.

Hail
44

Re: No Audibles
 

Spurrier didn't have audibles or hot reads. Gibbs had them. That's what the yellow 30 and green 60 business was all about. Most of them were nothing but there were always a few that were live for that game.

Rypien used to change the play all the time at the line in 1991. He used hand signals. It was very effective that year.

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote=70Chip;244380]Spurrier didn't have audibles or hot reads. Gibbs had them. That's what the yellow 30 and green 60 business was all about. Most of them were nothing but there were always a few that were live for that game.

Rypien used to change the play all the time at the line in 1991. He used hand signals. It was very effective that year.[/quote]

rypien was the only qb for gibbs i ever saw use them frequently,theismann,williams,and schrodeder sure did'nt!is this me or
if payton manning did'nt call an audible every play,would'nt that be unusual?

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote=PhxRedSkin;244366]Read something by Lombardi, Allen, Baugh, Jurgensen....Cooke....about the traditional system. NO AUDIBLES. Look at Gibbs at San Diego State and Tampa Bay. NO AUDIBLES. Gibbs allowed Ramsey to audible 2 years ago....jog your memory and do your history before you spew nonsense.

Hail
44[/quote]
of course the traditional system had no audibles. the defenses got set, and stayed in that formation. there was no moving around, and hardly any blitzing. the defenses of today are constantly moving around, and blitzing probably 50% of the time. audibles are needed in todays game. and if you think this is nonsense, watch yesterdays game tape, and see how many plays were run directly into the teeth of the defense. im not about nonsense, im about results. and so far, the results i see out of our redskins arent favorable

Re: No Audibles
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;244353]It's been pretty well documented, here's some chatter from a Chiefs board when Saunders was there.

[url=http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/archive/index.php/t-127862]ChiefsPlanet[/url][/QUOTE]

damn...arrogant is the word.

Re: No Audibles
 

last year we used audibles and it worked out well. saunders uses pre snap movement instead, except we haven't been using it since week 2 (and a couple times vs dallas), so we've got the worst of both worlds. joy.

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote=That Guy;245487]last year we used audibles and it worked out well. saunders uses pre snap movement instead, except we haven't been using it since week 2 (and a couple times vs dallas), so we've got the worst of both worlds. joy.[/quote]

I have a question for you That Guy. Is it just me or has Saunders been a blinding disappointment. I know he's had some constraints and I know it's only nine games but factoring that in, I still see his hiring as a mistake. I thought he would run the Gibbs system and slowly add his flavor to the mix. Instead it was a complete overhaul. I also get the vibe that he is not fitting in well with the other assistants and it's creating tension. Don't know who exactly, no specifics, just a feeling I have. I'm beginning to the think we should have listened to that tubby sportswriter from KC - J. Whitlock. Your thoughts?

Re: No Audibles
 

[quote=70Chip;245520]I have a question for you That Guy. Is it just me or has Saunders been a blinding disappointment. I know he's had some constraints and I know it's only nine games but factoring that in, I still see his hiring as a mistake. I thought he would run the Gibbs system and slowly add his flavor to the mix. Instead it was a complete overhaul. I also get the vibe that he is not fitting in well with the other assistants and it's creating tension. Don't know who exactly, no specifics, just a feeling I have. I'm beginning to the think we should have listened to that tubby sportswriter from KC - J. Whitlock. Your thoughts?[/quote]

Whitlock has integrity (he wasn't saying that just for ratings)... he said saunders is good at what he does, but he's a backbiter, and it's proven to be true (he's complained publicly that brunell can't do a lot of things, that campbell isn't smart enough or ready to run his offense, that portis should never take himself out of games, etc etc). seems there's always a reason things don't work out, and it's NEVER HIS FAULT. that's what i don't like, and that's why he should never be a head coach. if he can't take responsiblity for anything he does, why wouldn't his players follow that example?

I mean, if betts made that 3rd and 1, do you think he would have taken the time to call out portis in the post-game interview? I doubt it.

It has been a blinding failure, but it's not entirely saunders fault. he can't use the personnel he wants, i'm not sure how much gibbs is interfering with his game plans and playcalling, etc. I do know that it looks like he's calling plays for the KC personnel and he's failed to make meaningful adjustments in a timely manner (ie, brunnel is a much better passer out of the shotgun (where he's not watching the rush), so it takes 9 weeks before we see a single shotgun snap (which worked well enough, btw)). Saunders uses motion instead of audibles to create mismatches, but we haven't really seen any motion except on a limited basis in week 1, 2, and 9.

BUT, you can't expect a new system to work right off the bat. that said it should be performing better by now... brunell and the OL may be bottlenecks though which does make it harder to judge, and campbell probably won't run a full offense right away either.


that said, if he does leave after this year, i won't miss him.

Re: No Audibles
 

Lots of teams call no audibles. In fact in the West Coast offense it is common. The alt is of course the hot read which everyone so desperately wanted instead of audibles when Spurrier was here.

Audibles aren't an issue. The execution of hot reads is difficult but very rewarding when done right. I think we have struggled with it. I think Brunell wasn't in the proper mind set to execute them and I think it a function of his lack of confidence in his physical abilities. I really think he just didn't believe he could make some of the throws so he just checked down when he knew a proper hot read was needed and he couldn't get it done.

It really seemed that way to me. A few times announcers, who mostly have a very poor understanding and recognition of hot read I have noticed, pointed out that a hot read didn't work right. I think it happened far more than anyone has talked about.

Maybe Campbell will be braven enough to just make the proper reads and do what is supposed to be done. Or maybe he will struggle with reads. I have no idea. But I am excited that there is a chance he can get it done. Brunell didn't have that chance anymore.
Any team involving Saunders never has. St Louis and KC didn't.