FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[B]Peter King:[/B]

[URL="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/peter_king/04/17/mmqb.0417/index.html"]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/peter_king/04/17/mmqb.0417/index.html[/URL]

[QUOTE]
[B]2. Now we know how the Redskins play Houdini with the cap every year.
[/B]I hear it every winter -- from editors, readers, people in line at Starbucks. (True story: I got asked at an Orlando Starbucks during the league meetings how the Redskins were able to sign 10 guys to gigantic contracts every year.) The answer: They don't. It's 70 percent funny money. Take the case of linebacker [B]Andre Carter[/B], signed to a reported seven-year, $32.5 million contract on March 15. It's more accurately a one-year, $5.85 million deal, or a two-year, $10.18 million contract, or a three-year, $13.5 million deal. See, the Redskins sign players to long deals, but the contracts are back-loaded, meaning they would get most of the money in the final years of the contracts, if they get the money at all. And if Carter turns out to be the defensive force the Redskins hope he'll be, they'll almost certainly just let him play the first two years, then re-do the deal before the fat money kicks in. Specifically, in Carter's case, he has two major slices of money he may never see: $13.4 million, combined, in five separate roster bonuses to be earned if he's on the roster in 2008, '09, '10, '11, and '12; and salaries totaling $8.9 million between 2008 and 2012. Collectively, that's $22.3 million of a $32 million he may never see. Now the other question you have is this: Well, won't the Redskins get killed on the salary cap if they release Carter, say, after two years? The answer is not really, because the only part of his contract that's guaranteed is the signing bonus, which is $5 million.
[/QUOTE]

He stops short of saying it's a smart cap strategy, but from this little excerpt hopefully he spreads a little understanding to all those ignoramuses who love to bash the 'Skins' cap management.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

and its peter king of all people.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

Shocking.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

I'm in shock right now

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

I just signed on to post this same excerpt...I guess I was late doing it because I had to pick my jaw up off the floor. My exact thought as I read it was "Finally! Some sanity!"

But as I heard once, the Redskins are probably sitting there laughing at the media making such a fuss about our contracts. It is absolutely in their interest for the players, agents and free-agents-to-be out there to think that we are giving away absurd contracts. Then we can just sit there knowing that we have well-protected interests and top-notch players. Go Skins!

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

My question is, do these players willingly know this is going to happen to them down the road, and figure that getting any money at all is better than getting no money (hard to believe), or do they have the mindset to believe that this is an incentive for them to play "up to the contract" in hopes it won't get renegiotated down the road? I think it's great cap strategy, but if I was a player, I'm not sure I'd go for this. I'd like to know exactly what is being said to the players and their agents that make them go for this type of deal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining one bit, but I just find it interesting that players and their agents don't pick up on this stuff.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[quote]Now the other question you have is this: Well, won't the Redskins get killed on the salary cap if they release Carter, say, after two years? The answer is not really, because the only part of his contract that's guaranteed is the signing bonus, which is $5 million.[/quote]

For all the cap hell theorists, this is [U][B]exactly[/B][/U] how the Redskins are able to avoid cap hell year after year.

Finally some sanity, from Peter King no less.

Again, I'm still in shock.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[quote=skinsguy]My question is, do these players willingly know this is going to happen to them down the road, and figure that getting any money at all is better than getting no money (hard to believe), or do they have the mindset to believe that this is an incentive for them to play "up to the contract" in hopes it won't get renegiotated down the road? I think it's great cap strategy, but if I was a player, I'm not sure I'd go for this. I'd like to know exactly what is being said to the players and their agents that make them go for this type of deal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining one bit, but I just find it interesting that players and their agents don't pick up on this stuff.[/quote]

I was thinking the same thing back when it became clear that a lot players won't see the money they are reportedly signing for. Perhaps they know, but really you here comments like "I let me agent take care of all that". So, some of them may well be ignorant to this.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

I was annoyed by that kind of. PK sort of seperates himself from those that have predicted cap doom for all these years. I wanted him to acknowledge in there that he had been wrong all these years. I guess that's to much to ask.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[quote=skinsguy]My question is, do these players willingly know this is going to happen to them down the road, and figure that getting any money at all is better than getting no money (hard to believe), or do they have the mindset to believe that this is an incentive for them to play "up to the contract" in hopes it won't get renegiotated down the road? I think it's great cap strategy, but if I was a player, I'm not sure I'd go for this. I'd like to know exactly what is being said to the players and their agents that make them go for this type of deal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining one bit, but I just find it interesting that players and their agents don't pick up on this stuff.[/quote]I think the answer to your question is Yes they do know the chances of playing out their contract is very unlikely. Its an ego thing that they got such a big contract when in fact they will never see most of that money. So what we are doing is paying them what they are worth but they get the satisfation of hearing about the big contract they received. How we manage the cap has come to lite the past few years but I myself wish everyone was still guessing. Other teams will start to use these stratgies which will make them more competitive in the free agent market.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

This is the beginning of the "bandwagon jump" where all the national media will start saying how smart the deals were, blah, blah and how good of a team they knew they would be and Mark Brunell is not too old. We saw glimpses of it last year as the season went along. I call bullshit, keep hating like you have the last 10 yrs and piss off!

Maybe I should start a F...the National Media thread?

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

Wow......now all we need is big fatass Lenny P to give us some props.

That will probably never happen though.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

I have always been a Peter King apologist. Mr. King sometimes makes it exceedingly difficult to defend him (e.g. when he says Ark Monk shouldn't get into the H.o.F.), but he's usually pretty fair.

After Gibbs' returned, he praised him to the nth degree. After last offseason, he said he thought Coles was more talented than Moss, but still said Gibbs made the right choice. He really likes the entire coaching staff and has praised guys like Clinton Portis (calling him one of the league's toughest backs) and Santana Moss (calling him one of the league's top wideouts).
Mr. King doesn't seem to particularly care for Dan Snyder as a person, but who does.

There are definately Redskin haters in the media, and lots of them. But, Peter King isn't one of them. He might say some stupid things, but he's doesn't bash the Redskins just to bash them.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

I guess the Monk thing makes it REALLY hard to overlook.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[quote=Redskins_P]Wow......now all we need is big fatass Lenny P to give us some props.

That will probably never happen though.[/quote]

If you offer to let him eat your first born child, then maybe...

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

we still rack up deadcap every year. as long as its manageable until new tv/etc contracts come through to boost the cap, we avoid a roster meltdown. If the contract strategy is a year short though, its a death knell.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]I guess the Monk thing makes it REALLY hard to overlook.[/QUOTE]

No doubt. He deserves to be blasted for that opinion. I just think that is a reflection of his poor common sense than a function of any Redskins-bias.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

True, it's a sad fact but I know I, as well as many others I'm sure, only see the negative when it comes to sports writers.

We're a disillusioned bunch.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

Ladies and gentlemen we have a Easter miracle.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

I'm just mad he exposed our competitive adavantage and our stratagies for contracts.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]My question is, do these players willingly know this is going to happen to them down the road, and figure that getting any money at all is better than getting no money (hard to believe), or do they have the mindset to believe that this is an incentive for them to play "up to the contract" in hopes it won't get renegiotated down the road? I think it's great cap strategy, but if I was a player, I'm not sure I'd go for this. I'd like to know exactly what is being said to the players and their agents that make them go for this type of deal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining one bit, but I just find it interesting that players and their agents don't pick up on this stuff.[/QUOTE]
Yeah the players know but they don't care. They know if they make a deal like this that either they will rework the deal to get the money if they have played well or will get released if they have only played ok. That backend money forces the skins to pay the guys who have played well and get rid of thsoe who haven't. Most players are willing to bet on themselves being able to "earn" that backend money. The skins build in the dead money from the players who don't "earn" the money on a yearly basis.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

I believe the reason that the players do not mind these deals is what has been pointed out on many occasions, they recieve large signing bonuses. The guaranteed money is the key variable to every NFL contract and the skins are not afraid to give it out. An NFL player can go from all pro to afterthought on every snap of the ball and the guaranteed dollars are the only thing that they can hang their hat on. Couple that with the fact that if they produce they will be treated like rock stars by the fans.

As a follow up, they don't mind restructuring because they receive more guaranteed dollars and they get accolades for helping the team.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[QUOTE=That Guy]we still rack up deadcap every year. as long as its manageable until new tv/etc contracts come through to boost the cap, we avoid a roster meltdown. If the contract strategy is a year short though, its a death knell.[/QUOTE]
We end up getting guys for under value basically with the way they do the contracts though. That allows them to build in the dead space every year. As long as 50%+ FAs they sign end up being better than we are really paying them up front then the Skins have extra cap space that can be used for the the other FAs that didn't "earn" their money. The dead space is simply a by product of the strategy that is unavoidable but not nearly as negative as dead space would be in other cap strategies.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper]As a follow up, they don't mind restructuring because they receive more guaranteed dollars and they get accolades for helping the team.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. When they have played well they get this money in converted roster bounses. IE: they "earned" this money.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

The players are fine with this situation. First, Snyder's signing bonuses tend to be larger than the average team's (understatement alert).

Secondly, if players don't play up to the contract, they get cut and get to sign a new deal with another team. If they earn their keep, the Skins restructure and just give them another signing bonus a few years down the road.

Players like to get a big cash payment up front, and they like having the opportunity to get another big cash payment before they pass their prime.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper]I believe the reason that the players do not mind these deals is what has been pointed out on many occasions, they recieve large signing bonuses. The guaranteed money is the key variable to every NFL contract and the skins are not afraid to give it out. An NFL player can go from all pro to afterthought on every snap of the ball and the guaranteed dollars are the only thing that they can hang their hat on. Couple that with the fact that if they produce they will be treated like rock stars by the fans.

As a follow up, they don't mind restructuring because they receive more guaranteed dollars and they get accolades for helping the team.[/quote]

good post, I was looking for someone to mention the signing bonus/restructure strategy, which king didn't elaborate much on. As I understand it, "restructuring" actually seems to benefit the players as much if not more so than the org. It turns base salary $ into guaranteed $.
But there's a reason we can do that; Synder has the $ to pay the bonuses if need be, whereas if say Arizona were to use our strategy they wouldn't have or want to spend the $ to convert base salary to signing bonuses. I'd say the Skins strategy is a combination of creative cap structuring & big $.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[quote=skinsguy]My question is, do these players willingly know this is going to happen to them down the road, and figure that getting any money at all is better than getting no money (hard to believe), or do they have the mindset to believe that this is an incentive for them to play "up to the contract" in hopes it won't get renegiotated down the road? I think it's great cap strategy, but if I was a player, I'm not sure I'd go for this. I'd like to know exactly what is being said to the players and their agents that make them go for this type of deal. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining one bit, but I just find it interesting that players and their agents don't pick up on this stuff.[/quote]

I know your post has been quoted a lot of times but they do in fact know about the back end money. That's the real reason Smoot left. The final numbers had Minnesota edging Washington by $500,000 making the Skins look bad to the media. I heard my man Czaban ripping the Skins over $500,000 when it was that Minnesota gave him most of his money early and Washington wasn't. The Skins know what they are doing and for the folks who come aboard there is a lot of money to be made if they stay. They are so good even Peter King had to bow down show respect. Like Joe Gibbs said, Everyone can do what we are doing, they just choose not to !


F'n HAIL !!!!

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

The players like the sound of the big contracts to feed their big egos. It would not surprise me if some of these players end up making less as a skins than they would have if they went else where but their deals just don't sound as good as ours in the press.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life]I know your post has been quoted a lot of times but they do in fact know about the back end money. That's the real reason Smoot left. The final numbers had Minnesota edging Washington by $500,000 making the Skins look bad to the media. I heard my man Czaban ripping the Skins over $500,000 when it was that Minnesota gave him most of his money early and Washington wasn't. The Skins know what they are doing and for the folks who come aboard there is a lot of money to be made if they stay. They are so good even Peter King had to bow down show respect. Like Joe Gibbs said, Everyone can do what we are doing, they just choose not to !


F'n HAIL !!!![/quote]

That is exactly who i was thinking of. Smoot left because all the money was "back ended". I was always pissed about that but really is it possible that current players on the team have seen this stuff happen will be much more less likely to agree to these deals when it comes time to become free agents? We do an amazing job reworking contracts and just tacking on years and pushing back signing bonuses and money but if we do let a player become a free agent it must be hard if they really have seen what has happened.

We all know what we do. We all said this about brunell. We knew he wouldn't see a lot of his money. He reworked his contract but if he didn't i think he would have been cut this next year.

The rest of the league should be taking notes. The way we divide signing bonuses and push back money may not make us friends but it got us a hole lot of damn good players

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

Think of it this way. If a player wants to get paid before he proves himself would you consider that guy a "core" player? If you have a guy that is willing to work hard and then has a chance to be well rewarded then you have a guy worth having on your team. I foolishly believe that there are some players out there that are willing to prove their value.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

You're right about that BsB ! I don't think it bothers the players, or maybe it does. It seems to me that if a player produces they'll be here for a long time with the possibility of making alot of money. They want players to be Redskins as long as they play well. The way we must go about it can be cut-throat but it's all business. They give a player 3 years to show that they should get more money and if they can't prove that, then they are dismissed. Now granted sometimes the cap does bite a little bit and sometimes we lose a good player or two but with the CBA the way it is it's bound to happen. I think Washington should get a lot more credit for what they do, not picking on ANY one reporter or analyst but New England is praised for being cheap. So is Philli, they are given the benifit of the doubt when it comes to things like this. I guaran-damn-tee you that if the Colts were the Redskins and we let James go as if it were nothing after giving our Quarterback and #1 Reciever $90 mil each ( I could be wrong on the figures ) and then not sign your franchise RB then we would've gotten ripped. Like I said before they all must bow down !I love this team ! Hail to the Redskins, Hail Dan Snyder, the man with the cash !


KNEEL BEFORE GIBBS !!! KNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL !!!!

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

I think the worst move by some media people was to write off Gibbs and say he was over-the-hill, then cheapshot him while he was down, his first year back. That's a mistake, that I believe, will bite some of these guys in the arse. I think some of these same guys are now backing off slowly from their anti-redskins stance for some reason (maybe because they're cowards).

I don't think you should ever have a lack of respect for anyone so deserving of it. Gibbs, moreso than anyone, has earned every bit of respect that was ever given to him.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

I'm speechless.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[QUOTE=warriorzpath]I think the worst move by some media people was to write off Gibbs and say he was over-the-hill, then cheapshot him while he was down, his first year back. That's a mistake, that I believe, will bite some of these guys in the arse. I think some of these same guys are now backing off slowly from their anti-redskins stance for some reason (maybe because they're cowards).

I don't think you should ever have a lack of respect for anyone so deserving of it. Gibbs, moreso than anyone, has earned every bit of respect that was ever given to him.[/QUOTE]

I particularly want to see Pastabelly make his lame excuses and snide remarks when Joe wins his next SB. I would love to personally feed him his crow pie. I really do want to start collecting all the "He'll never make it" statements he made.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[quote=JoeRedskin]I particularly want to see Pastabelly make his lame excuses and snide remarks when Joe wins his next SB. I would love to personally feed him his crow pie. I really do want to start collecting all the "He'll never make it" statements he made.[/quote]

Lol if the redskins did win the superbowl pastabelly would probably say we paid off the commissioner or some other shit like that.

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

this is funny,for all you p king haters.all together now,p king is one of the greatest sports writers of all time:)

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[quote=mooby]Lol if the redskins did win the superbowl pastabelly would probably say we paid off the commissioner or some other shit like that.[/quote]

Can anybody else see Lenny P beginning to eat random objects around the house and begin to grow to the proportions of the Marshmallow Man and then proceed to try and eat FedEx?

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection]Can anybody else see Lenny P beginning to eat random objects around the house and begin to grow to the proportions of the Marshmallow Man and then proceed to try and eat FedEx?[/QUOTE]

Where are Bill Murray and Dan Aykroyd when you need them?

....when there's something strange in your neighborhood

Re: FINALLY! - A National Columnist Gets it Right
 

When there's something strange in my neighborhood, you KNOW what I do.

I pound a nice box of:
[IMG]http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/5306209/638108[/IMG]