'Overpaying' reality check
 

:rant:
I'm already tired of reading about how the Redskins 'overpaid' for Randle El and Lloyd.. You are worth what someone is willing to pay you or what you are willing to pay.. The writers on CBS Sportsline said paying that much money is crazy but so is paying $2 million for assistant coaches.. They are probably paid 6 figures for being nationally syndicated sportswriters and that's not 'crazy'? Is it going to kill our cap? Of course not, Snyder, Shafer, Ceratto know how to massage the cap to maximize it.. Is signing a 26 yr old and a 24 yr old to long term deals 'crazy'?

Please don't feed into this crap by talking about the dollar signs involved.. Ok, I'll get off my :soapbox:

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

Good post--this point has been made elsewhere (see Schneed's posts): the new CBA has jacked up saleries, so they look very high to folks. ANd I completely agree: everyone is gonna say the skins overpaid, we'll be in cap hell, etc. as if they haven't noticed the last season AT ALL, and think EVERYTHING we do is Deion, Bruce Smith, ETC ETC.

Not worth getting excited about. We'll do our thing, and they can keep yapping.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain]:rant:
I'm already tired of reading about how the Redskins 'overpaid' for Randle El and Lloyd.. You are worth what someone is willing to pay you or what you are willing to pay.. The writers on CBS Sportsline said paying that much money is crazy but so is paying $2 million for assistant coaches.. They are probably paid 6 figures for being nationally syndicated sportswriters and that's not 'crazy'? Is it going to kill our cap? Of course not, Snyder, Shafer, Ceratto know how to massage the cap to maximize it.. Is signing a 26 yr old and a 24 yr old to long term deals 'crazy'?

Please don't feed into this crap by talking about the dollar signs involved.. Ok, I'll get off my :soapbox:[/QUOTE]

Sounds like CBS and other media giant (a$$es) are sour grapes because Danny's media machine breaks the news before they do and they end up getting sloppy seconds. I say lay into em Snyder and B-slap em a few times for me!:woot:

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

The media can't figure out how we spend so much money and are not in cap hell. They don't like that we are the richest team in the league and we have an owner who spends the money to get who we want. They also don't like how snyder is not some owner who's family has owned the team for ever and is actually doing well. Also We don't treat the media like they are someone special

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

they're paying young guys with lots of upside. its MUCH better than paying 35 year olds with 7 year contracts.

moss out played his contract, and over the last two years the only real underperformers were guys that got injured. As long as you're getting talent in return for your money, its not overpaying. the WR market sucked this year. R'El has the best character of the WRs, and lloyd has the best talent. all thats left is TO, bryant, and givens (who wants 5mill a year when patten only got 2.6, granted he's younger, but the production was similar).

the fact that we got 2/5 worthwhile WRs in 2 days is a boon. if we waited or tried to save money now, we'd have to overpay someone like givens who isn't as good.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

Notice that the $ is in signing bonus & roster bonuses. That "guaranteed" money isn't always guaranteed, see Lavar's situation.
Snyder never dolls out the entire signing bonus in 1 hit, he leaves some of it in later years as a roster bonus to give players some incentive. Snyder's a lot smarter in these deals than he's often portrayed. Does he pay players well? Of course.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

i like how this is going to keep up the skins rep of paying people. we're always the first stop on a free agents list, and that's A Good Thing (TM).

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

[QUOTE=JWsleep]Good post--this point has been made elsewhere (see Schneed's posts): the new CBA has jacked up saleries, so they look very high to folks. ANd I completely agree: everyone is gonna say the skins overpaid, we'll be in cap hell, etc. as if they haven't noticed the last season AT ALL, and think EVERYTHING we do is Deion, Bruce Smith, ETC ETC.

Not worth getting excited about. We'll do our thing, and they can keep yapping.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I think the reporters that are ripping us, like Priscoe and Judge, have yet to realize the effects of the new salary cap. The cap went from $85 million to $102 million, which amounts to a 20% increase. If you want to see what Randle-El's contract would have been worth last year, you have to dial it down by 20%.

The contract is $11.5 million in bonus, and $31 million overall. Last year, adjusting down by 20%, that would have amounted to $25.8 million over 7 years, with a $9.6 million bonus.

Those are the kind of numbers we're used to seeing and if you look at it in last year's terms, it puts it in better perspective. If it helps you put things in perspective, just divide all dollars of a contract by 1.2. I'll probably need to do this until I get used to the new cap. Looking at Randle-El's contract that way, I think the overall value seems reasonable. The guaranteed $ still seems high to me, but I guess that's what it took to get him signed, and I guess it can be justified based on the return abilities and the trick play potential he also brings.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

keep them talking, let them continue to get the word out... the skins are THE place to visit in free agency.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

Didn't all the "experts" say that we were crazy for giving Moss the contract we did last year too? I trust Gibbs and the rest of the staff on this one. If they saw something in Lloyd and Randel El the same way they saw something in Moss when they went after him, then I'm happy and content with the contracts.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

It's easier to fill your alloted time and appeal to the masses if you suspend disbelief and act like a player is going to receive every cent of a contract. It gives them something to bray about for a day or two.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

It does seem like we overpaid, but:

1. It is hard to figure out what the market is, given the new CBA extension.
2. We're not paying them for what they've done, we are paying them for what they will do.
3. The Bears offered Randle El a very similar contract.
4. The Redskins FO has managed to keep us out of salary cap hell for years now.
5. Who cares what the media thinks of us?

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

oh i dont care what the media thinks so much as im worried about what happens next year. someone brought up in another thread that the prices seem high due to the new CBA. thatll just be my kool aid for now.

OH YEAH!!!!!

[img]http://jarrett-the-awesome.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/koolaidman.jpg[/img]

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

Yes, these reports are the experts and know everything. Think of all thier keen insight from last year... For instance:

The game has passed Gibbs by
No way the Skins make the playoffs
The Skins will be in salary cap hell
The skins are going to have to field 25 rookies
The Coles for Moss trade was a terrible decision


Feel free to pile on...

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]Yes, these reports are the experts and know everything. Think of all thier keen insight from last year... For instance:

The game has passed Gibbs by
No way the Skins make the playoffs
The Skins will be in salary cap hell
The skins are going to have to field 25 rookies
The Coles for Moss trade was a terrible decision


Feel free to pile on...[/QUOTE]

Portis isn't a Gibbs running back....

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

Right now, we don't have enough details on the contract to be able to really say if anyone has gotten overpaid or not. That said, these deals are probably very reasonable in terms of a cap perspective. More importantly, the cost isn't as important as the value to the team. These are very exciting signings for the Skins. Are offense got much, much better.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

how much was lloyd sign for? also great wa yto attack your needs in FA I tought you wouldn't be as agressive as other year I stand corrected. Great pick ups .... the only thing that I question is why give a #3 receiver #2/ #1 type money?

Don't you believe that with Moss, Lloyd and Randall you have to much money straped in 1 position?

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

The main reason all of these good players with a lot of upside are considering the Redskins over other teams balls down to a well organized group of guys Gibbs and Synder have around them. First, we get Brunell, Portis and Springs to restructure their contracts before the CBA extension. That freed up over 10 million between the three of them. Add 4.5 million from Lavar and 7.5 million with the CBA Agreement now we're cooking. Ramsey will free up 1.9 million with additional money coming from Ryan Clark, Ladell Betts, and at least one of the RF Agents.

When I heard about Synder sending a plane to the Carribean to talk to Collins I knew what Gibbs meant by having an aggressive free agency mission.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

[QUOTE=D'BOYZ]how much was lloyd sign for? also great wa yto attack your needs in FA I tought you wouldn't be as agressive as other year I stand corrected. Great pick ups .... the only thing that I question is why give a #3 receiver #2/ #1 type money?

Don't you believe that with Moss, Lloyd and Randall you have to much money straped in 1 position?[/QUOTE]

Absolutely not. When Gibbs kicked Coles,McCants and Gardner out of D.C. last year he had a plan to get those free agents that you now see in D.C.
The money is available through cooperative restructring via Brunell, Springs and Portis. With that restructuring before the CBA agreement, it allowed us to get on the job quicker than most teams. Lets face it, it's hard to get almost one player to re-structure today. Next on our target John Abraham or Andre Carter. Then Collins (QB) and then wait for the draft.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

[QUOTE=D'BOYZ]how much was lloyd sign for? also great wa yto attack your needs in FA I tought you wouldn't be as agressive as other year I stand corrected. Great pick ups .... the only thing that I question is why give a #3 receiver #2/ #1 type money?

Don't you believe that with Moss, Lloyd and Randall you have to much money straped in 1 position?[/QUOTE]

And what exactly is Dallas going to do in FA?

I've got a great idea. Why don't you bring in a 33 year old WR who is a known coach and QB killer who once did a jig on the Dallas Star. That should really help build some locker room chemistry.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

[QUOTE=RiggoRules]And what exactly is Dallas going to do in FA?

I've got a great idea. Why don't you bring in a 33 year old WR who is a known coach and QB killer who once did a jig on the Dallas Star. That should really help build some locker room chemistry.[/QUOTE]

that was sucha great moment in skins history when he went after the star.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

[QUOTE=mcalderone10]that was sucha great moment in skins history when he went after the star.[/QUOTE]

ok why was it such a great moment in skins history, it had nothing to do with your team??? or player? in my opinion beating us last year at home a thing you hadn't do in 10 years losing 13-0 had more meening but hey what ever gets you high.

Also I agree with the TO call I'm not in favor of it..... but that doesn't answers the question I placed before why pay #2 or #1 wr money to a #3? and also you have 4 wr with the same body frame and type of game play you don't have an actual posesion recevier.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]Yes, these reports are the experts and know everything. Think of all thier keen insight from last year... For instance:

The game has passed Gibbs by
No way the Skins make the playoffs
The Skins will be in salary cap hell
The skins are going to have to field 25 rookies
The Coles for Moss trade was a terrible decision


Feel free to pile on...[/QUOTE]

"Sideline" Santana is soft.

GW wont be back as Skin's DC.

Joe Gibbs isn't a football coach anymore, he wont ever coach again...EVER.

Brunell is done, the worst QB in the NFL(okay I said that too).

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

[QUOTE=D'BOYZ]
Also I agree with the TO call I'm not in favor of it..... but that doesn't answers the question I placed before why pay #2 or #1 wr money to a #3? and also you have 4 wr with the same body frame and type of game play you don't have an actual posesion recevier.[/QUOTE]
Explaining things to Dallas fans is never easy, but I'll give it a shot. ;-)

Saunders big body possession receiver in KC was Gonzo. Here it is Cooley.

The reason why it is worth it to pay what it takes to get those new #2 and #3 receivers is that it is an automatic upgrade at the following positions:

WR2
WR3
WR1
QB
RB
TE/H-Back

As TO fails to understand, this is a team game. The passing game has been improved for less money and at less risk than going out and buying another QB.

These moves should be much easier to grasp than most of the ones The Crypt Keeper (J. Jones) has made over the years.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

[QUOTE=D'BOYZ]ok why was it such a great moment in skins history, it had nothing to do with your team??? or player? in my opinion beating us last year at home a thing you hadn't do in 10 years losing 13-0 had more meening but hey what ever gets you high.

Also I agree with the TO call I'm not in favor of it..... but that doesn't answers the question I placed before why pay #2 or #1 wr money to a #3? and also you have 4 wr with the same body frame and type of game play you don't have an actual posesion recevier.[/QUOTE]

Hey, I knew you were out there somewhere!
I think Moss had possesion when he torched your "golden boy" safety on MNF.

How was that ride home when it was 35-0???

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

[QUOTE=D'BOYZ]ok why was it such a great moment in skins history, it had nothing to do with your team??? or player? in my opinion beating us last year at home a thing you hadn't do in 10 years losing 13-0 had more meening but hey what ever gets you high.

Also I agree with the TO call I'm not in favor of it..... but that doesn't answers the question I placed before why pay #2 or #1 wr money to a #3? and also you have 4 wr with the same body frame and type of game play you don't have an actual posesion recevier.[/QUOTE]

You're absolutely right about the Monday Night Miracles. That was undoubtedly one of the best Redskins moments in recent history.

But, I fail to see how it matters that we lack a possession wideout when we have one of the best WR corps in the league. Moreover, I think Cooley will fill the "possession receiver" role quite nicely.

I don't want to make any bold predictions right now, but I'd venture to guess that your defense will have its hands full the next time we meet. Who wouldn't? Moss, Portis, Cooley, Randle El, Lloyd, Patten, et al form a pretty powerful punch.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

Here's my guess--you give a guy like Saunders weapons, and he makes it work. There is no one fixed way to play football; the good coaches adapt their schemes to the players they have. These were the pieces they felt would work best, and off we go. So we don't have a classic possession WR--wonder if Saunders and Gibbs have figured that out and have a plan for it? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they do...

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

[QUOTE=GoSkins!]Yes, these reports are the experts and know everything. Think of all thier keen insight from last year... For instance:

The skins are going to have to field 25 rookies
[/QUOTE]

at the time that report was correct.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

The Cowgirls better sign some corners or we are going to knock down their stadium on Turkey day...

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

[QUOTE=SUNRA]Absolutely not. When Gibbs kicked Coles,McCants and Gardner out of D.C. last year he had a plan to get those free agents that you now see in D.C.
The money is available through cooperative restructring via Brunell, Springs and Portis. With that restructuring before the CBA agreement, it allowed us to get on the job quicker than most teams. Lets face it, it's hard to get almost one player to re-structure today. Next on our target John Abraham or Andre Carter. Then Collins (QB) and then wait for the draft.[/QUOTE]

when they kicked mccants i highly doubt they knew R'El and lloyd and fauria wouldn't sign extensions etc. the restructuring pre cba DIDN'T happen. it was contigent on the CBA failing, and with a new cba, none of them went through.

most of the cash is prorating an extra year and turing all kinds of bonuses to SB to prorate that.

i think carter is the guy so we save a pick to address one need (OL most likely, possibly LB or CB) cheaply. the others need a FA solution.

Re: 'Overpaying' reality check
 

[QUOTE=D'BOYZ]ok why was it such a great moment in skins history, it had nothing to do with your team??? or player? in my opinion beating us last year at home a thing you hadn't do in 10 years losing 13-0 had more meening but hey what ever gets you high.

Also I agree with the TO call I'm not in favor of it..... but that doesn't answers the question I placed before why pay #2 or #1 wr money to a #3? and also you have 4 wr with the same body frame and type of game play you don't have an actual posesion recevier.[/QUOTE]

its not #1 money. moss produced 8$mill worth of stats last year, he got paid 1.5mill base. its cause the skins believe the other two will perform better in the future than they have up to this point. 24 and 26 year old WRs in 7 year contracts.

the new cba has prices going up by 15-20% instead of 5% like normal years. 3 years from now (should they not bust) these deal will be considered cheap as well.


and lloyd IS a possession receiver. he can jump insanely high and get his arm up for a one hand catch. he's not as fast as the other 3, but he's about as shifty and as good at getting yards after the catch.

TEs can also be possession guys.