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Core group to be competitive-Worst case
With the CBA mess going on and the rumors that we may have as many as 20 rookies on the roster to get under the cap (which seems absolutely ridiculous to me), who are the players that we HAVE to keep around in order to at least compete in '06? My list (without doing cap calculations, someone smarter than me can tell me if it works) is:
QB-Brunell, Campbell RB-Portis, Nemo FB/HB-Cooley, Sellers TE-? LT-Samuels LG-Wilson C-Rabach RG-Thomas RT-Jansen WR-Moss, Patten P-Frost K-? DE-Daniels DT-Griffin DT-Saleva'a DE-Evans LB-Clemons LB-Marshall LB-Washington CB-Springs FS-Taylor SS-Stoutmire CB-Rogers PR/KR-Brown That's 25 players and with a 45 man roster that assumes the rest would be rookies.. That leaves us with NO veteran depth.. Additions/subtractions/other options? |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
I think the thing that could really hurt us, if we went with that group, would be that we would have Nemo backing up Portis, alone. I don't know if I have that much faith in a guy who didn't really see the field this year. I don't think that he can back Portis up by himself. I think we really need Rock or Betts on the roster.
I also think that, if need be, we could get by without Philip Daniels. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
I don't think you can be competitive without at least 1-2 veteran backups in the following:
O-line D-line LB Secondary I don't necessarily fear rotating rookies into the game. I fear 2-3 rookie starters. People are going to get hurt, and we need some vets to back them up. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
It would probably be a mistake to try to be competitive.
I think you'd have to look at it as sacrificing the 2006 season and lop off top-salaried vets who are on the downside of their careers: Brunell, Samuels, Springs, Daniels...keep as much young talent as possible. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=Paintrain]With the CBA mess going on and the rumors that we may have as many as 20 rookies on the roster to get under the cap (which seems absolutely ridiculous to me), who are the players that we HAVE to keep around in order to at least compete in '06? My list (without doing cap calculations, someone smarter than me can tell me if it works) is:
QB-Brunell, Campbell RB-Portis, Nemo FB/HB-Cooley, Sellers TE-? LT-Samuels LG-Wilson C-Rabach RG-Thomas RT-Jansen WR-Moss, Patten P-Frost K-? DE-Daniels DT-Griffin DT-Saleva'a DE-Evans LB-Clemons LB-Marshall LB-Washington CB-Springs FS-Taylor SS-Stoutmire CB-Rogers PR/KR-Brown That's 25 players and with a 45 man roster that assumes the rest would be rookies.. That leaves us with NO veteran depth.. Additions/subtractions/other options?[/QUOTE] wilson got cut before the season, it'd be doc (or a rookie). evans is gone (FA, can't resign), stoutmire is gone (FA), brown is gone, frost is gone (both are too expensive at their vet mins due to year played). we also get 7 draftees, so maybe toss doc and replace him with a rookie 2nd rounder, punter has to be a first year guy (koch), we have a 1st year kicker on roster already. the skins can draft a TE and OG in the 2nd and 3rd, keep doc and get a CB in the 5th (gerrick McPherson)... then see whose left in the 6th for DL or WR depth :/ not the best situation. our DL is going to kinda suck though griffin is good and daniels is okay (if he can be kept). |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
If there is no CBA extension, as appears will be the case, we will enter the final uncapped season.
The following players will NOT be considered potential cuts by the Redskins, because cutting them will cost more than keeping them: Shawn Springs Clinton Portis Mark Brunell Randy Thomas Cornelius Griffin Sean Taylor Santana Moss Carlos Rogers Jason Campbell Lavar Arrington Everyone else would get consideration for the axe, because cutting them would represent a savings. For the rest of the roster, here are the players with the potential to get cut, in an order based on my perception of most likely to be cut to the least likely to be cut. Player - Cap Savings Matt Bowen - $2 M Brandon Noble - $1.7 M Cory Raymer - $1 M Walt Harris - $2 M Patrick Ramsey - $1.7 M (assuming trade) John Hall - $1.2 M James Thrash - $875 K Pierson Prioleau - $550 K David Patten - $650 K Taylor Jacobs - $100 K Tom Tupa - $600 K Mike Sellers - $500 K Reynaldo Wynn - $400 K Casey Rabach - $1.1 M Ladell Betts - $550 K Manny White - $100 K Joe Salavea'a - $500 K Phillip Daniels - $800 K Lemar Marshall - $400 K Derrick Dockery - $450 K Jon Jansen - $800 K Marcus Washington - $500 K Chris Samuels - $300 K Chris Cooley - $200 K So I'm saying Bowen is the most likely to be cut, and Cooley is the least likely. If I were GM and I had to make cuts, I'd go straight down the list from the top until I got under the cap. Hopefully people restructure enough so that we don't have to go too far down the list. All the other players on the roster don't have signing bonuses, they just have the league minimum base salaries based on their level of experience. Guys like Ryan Boschetti could be replaced by rookies to save about $100 K apiece. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
lavar would save money cause of the roster bonus he wouldn't get. cutting the filler contracts (vet min guys) would also save nearly 6mill$ in space.
you'd lose money on TJ cause of his replacement cost. no way he goes. same with white and cooley. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[url=http://www.thewarpath.net/showthread.php?t=11183&page=2]Here's a basic outline that could keep most starters[/url]
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=That Guy]lavar would save money cause of the roster bonus he wouldn't get. cutting the filler contracts (vet min guys) would also save nearly 6mill$ in space.
you'd lose money on TJ cause of his replacement cost. no way he goes. same with white and cooley.[/QUOTE] On Lavar, the remaining portion of his signing bonus is so great that it outweighs the $6 million roster bonus. If you cut Lavar, his remaining prorated signing bonus will accelerate and hit us with $12.8 million in 2006. Keeping him, even paying him the roster bonus, will result in a hit of only $12 million. Hopefully they can get that roster bonus down in some sort of restructure. You're right about TJ, replacing him even with a rookie would be a net hurt to our cap. And White and Cooley are so far down the list that I don't think the Skins would ever have to get that deep in their cuts. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=Schneed10]On Lavar, the remaining portion of his signing bonus is so great that it outweighs the $6 million roster bonus. If you cut Lavar, his remaining prorated signing bonus will accelerate and hit us with $12.8 million in 2006. Keeping him, even paying him the roster bonus, will result in a hit of only $12 million.
Hopefully they can get that roster bonus down in some sort of restructure. You're right about TJ, replacing him even with a rookie would be a net hurt to our cap. And White and Cooley are so far down the list that I don't think the Skins would ever have to get that deep in their cuts.[/QUOTE] white and cooley would both be negative cuts. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=That Guy]white and cooley would both be negative cuts.[/QUOTE]
You're right, assuming that we're starting from a roster of 53 players. Which would mean we'd have to replace Cooley and White. But we're not, our roster is huge right now because of the chump FAs we signed in January, guys like Lumsden. They're already figured into the salary cap totals being reported by Clayton et al. It depends which cap number you're working from. Canuck's number nets out the guys on the roster beyond the first 53. So if you're working from that number and trying to get down to $95 million, you're right, you'd have to find replacements for Cooley and White, and include them in the Canuck number. That would make cutting Cooley and White pointless due to your replacement costs. But if you're starting from the Clayton number (which is a little higher than Canuck's) then the replacements are already on board. And I'm not totally sure, but I think NFL teams have to get their entire roster under the cap, not just the first 53 guys. Anyway, the point is pretty much moot. Cooley and White would stick around pretty much under any circumstances. They are two of the last guys the Skins would ever want to get rid of. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
k, here's a list for anyone that wants to try it...
copy and paste it between [ code ] [ /code ] tags to keep the formatting. [CODE]2006 Salary - Release Fee = Savings. Total savings must be > $21million. [b]Player 2006 Salary Release Fee[/b] LaVar Arrington $12,046 $12,846 Chris Samuels $10,218 $9,932 Jon Jansen $5,603 $4,809 Shawn Springs $5,558 $6,833 Clinton Portis $5,476 $7,723 Mark Brunell $5,433 $5,733 Marcus Washington $5,167 $4,677 Randy Thomas $4,912 $5,648 Cornelius Griffin $4,883 $5,533 Sean Taylor $4,690 $8,380 Santana Moss $4,260 $9,400 Renaldo Wynn $3,453 $3,057 Patrick Ramsey $2,882 $1,194 Casey Rabach $3,145 $2,000 Walt Harris $2,750 $750 Brandon Noble $2,630 $930 Phillip Daniels $2,600 $1,800 David Patten $2,447 $1,800 Matt Bowen $2,400 $400 Carlos Rogers $2,297 $9,104 John Hall $1,820 $640 Jason Campbell $1,341 $4,122 James Thrash $1,125 $250 Cory Raymer $1,118 $133 Tom Tupa $939 $338 Pierson Prioleau $850 $300 Taylor Jacobs $841 $724 Joe Salave'a $837 $333 Ladell Betts $810 $265 Lemar Marshall $759 $363 Mike Sellers $595 $100 Derrick Dockery $581 $121 Chris Cooley $549 $328 Karon Riley $460 Ethan Albright $485 $25 Derrick Frost $460 Antonio Brown $460 Jimmy Farris $460 Manuel White Jr. $416 $319 Jim Molinaro $409 $24 Ryan Boschetti $385 Jashon Sykes $385 Kerry Carter $385 Ron Johnson $385 Curry Burns $385 Nehemiah Broughton $324 $28 James Bethea $310 Nic Clemons $310 Robert McCune $310 Robert Johnson $310 Christian Morton $310 Ikechuku Ndukwe $310 Dimitri Patterson $310 Ataveus Cash $310 LaShaun Ward $310 Richard Smith $310 Casey Bramlet $310 Jim Jones $310 Aki Jones $310 Sean Guthrie $235 Jonta Woodard $235 Tyler Jones $235 Aric Williams $235 Steven Harris $235 Jonathan Alston $235 Calen Powell $235 Jesse Lumsden $235 Jonathan Combs $235 Nick McNeil $235 [/CODE] bleh, i'll calculate savings and repost in a second to save other people trying this time. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=Schneed10]You're right, assuming that we're starting from a roster of 53 players. Which would mean we'd have to replace Cooley and White. But we're not, our roster is huge right now because of the chump FAs we signed in January, guys like Lumsden. They're already figured into the salary cap totals being reported by Clayton et al.[/QUOTE]
it makes sense either way. you either cut cooley who costs 200k or you dump an extra rookie making at LEAST 235k to clear the extra space. the rookie nets you 35k or more extra space than cooley, so it'd still be a negative cut. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
I don't like that LaVar makes the most money on our team. His value is way off base.
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
k, here's the new improved list. anyone whose release results in under 235k savings is untouchable, since it'd cost more to get to X number of warm bodies without them on the roster. I believe you only need 40 guys on the roster right now, but after everything is said and done (draft, FA, undrafted rookies), the skins need 53 guys total at a minimum of 235k each.
I think the practice squad doesn't count against the cap (it has set salaries) so 8 1st or 2nd year guys can still be stashed there if you feel like naming them, but it won't really help the cap problem (shoving 310k guys there instead of 235k guys saves a bit, but the downside is the 310k guys can't actually help your team from the PS) ;) [CODE] Total savings must be > $21million. Player 2006 Savings Walt Harris $2,000 Matt Bowen $2,000 Brandon Noble $1,700 Patrick Ramsey $1,688 John Hall $1,180 Casey Rabach $1,145 Cory Raymer $985 James Thrash $875 Phillip Daniels $800 Jon Jansen $794 David Patten $647 Tom Tupa $601 Pierson Prioleau $550 Ladell Betts $545 Joe Salave'a $504 Mike Sellers $495 Marcus Washington $490 Derrick Dockery $460 Karon Riley $460 (445) Ethan Albright $460 (445) Derrick Frost $460 (445) Antonio Brown $460 (445) Jimmy Farris $460 (445) Renaldo Wynn $396 Lemar Marshall $396 Jim Molinaro $385 Ryan Boschetti $385 Jashon Sykes $385 Kerry Carter $385 Ron Johnson $385 Curry Burns $385 James Bethea $310 Nic Clemons $310 Robert McCune $310 Robert Johnson $310 Christian Morton $310 Ikechuku Ndukwe $310 Dimitri Patterson $310 Ataveus Cash $310 LaShaun Ward $310 Richard Smith $310 Casey Bramlet $310 Jim Jones $310 Aki Jones $310 Nehemiah Broughton $296 Chris Samuels $286 Sean Guthrie $235 Jonta Woodard $235 Tyler Jones $235 Aric Williams $235 Steven Harris $235 Jonathan Alston $235 Calen Powell $235 Jesse Lumsden $235 Jonathan Combs $235 Nick McNeil $235 Untouchables: Chris Cooley $221 Taylor Jacobs $117 Manuel White Jr. $97 Mark Brunell $-300 Cornelius Griffin $-650 Randy Thomas $-736 LaVar Arrington $-840 Shawn Springs $-1,275 Clinton Portis $-2,247 Jason Campbell $-2,781 Sean Taylor $-3,690 Santana Moss $-5,140 Carlos Rogers $-6,807[/CODE] Info gathered from: [url="http://www.thewarpath.net/WarpathRedskinsCap.htm"]Salary cap numbers[/url] |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
Tomorrow is going to be really ugly
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=Mattyk72]Tomorrow is going to be really ugly[/QUOTE]
Just stare at this and let your problems drift away... [img]http://img314.imageshack.us/img314/1515/wacky26ug2sr2ww.gif[/img] |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
This about sums up the CBA talks.
[img]http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/9989/514844943qh5rm.gif[/img] |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
hey, here's a problem... there's 13 uncuttable players. releasing everyone (EVERYONE) saves about 29,823k. Signing 40 players to complete the roster at 235k each costs 9,400k.
29,823k - 9,400k = 20,423k total savings with [b]40[/b] 1st year rookies. Not to alarm anyone, but here's our cap situation: 2006 total cap cost (dead money + 2006 salaries) - $116,793k 2006 cap - $95,000k 116,793k - 95,000k = 21,793k. since we can save a maximum of 20.4mill and we need to cut 21.8mill, this is a fool's erand. with restructures it simply can't be done. 40 rookies and we'll still be 1.4mill in the hole... we're totally hosed. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=That Guy]hey, here's a problem... there's 13 uncuttable players. releasing everyone (EVERYONE) saves about 29,823k. Signing 40 players to complete the roster at 235k each costs 9,400k.
29,823k - 9,400k = 20,423k total savings with [b]40[/b] 1st year rookies. Not to alarm anyone, but here's our cap situation: 2006 total cap cost (dead money + 2006 salaries) - $116,793k 2006 cap - $95,000k 116,793k - 95,000k = 21,793k. since we can save a maximum of 20.4mill and we need to cut 21.8mill, this is a fool's erand. with restructures it simply can't be done.[/QUOTE] Yep. We're going to lose at least a couple very valuable Redskins in the next few days. Prepare yourselves to shed some tears. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=Paintrain]With the CBA mess going on and the rumors that we may have as many as 20 rookies on the roster to get under the cap (which seems absolutely ridiculous to me), who are the players that we HAVE to keep around in order to at least compete in '06? My list (without doing cap calculations, someone smarter than me can tell me if it works) is:
QB-Brunell, Campbell RB-Portis, Nemo FB/HB-Cooley, Sellers TE-? LT-Samuels LG-Wilson C-Rabach RG-Thomas RT-Jansen WR-Moss, Patten P-Frost K-? DE-Daniels DT-Griffin DT-Saleva'a DE-Evans LB-Clemons LB-Marshall LB-Washington CB-Springs FS-Taylor SS-Stoutmire CB-Rogers PR/KR-Brown That's 25 players and with a 45 man roster that assumes the rest would be rookies.. That leaves us with NO veteran depth.. Additions/subtractions/other options?[/QUOTE] Is cutting Burnell a better thing for the cap and keeping Ramsey? If so it seems like a better idea so maybe we could keep others! |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=Schneed10]Yep. We're going to lose at least a couple very valuable Redskins in the next few days. Prepare yourselves to shed some tears.[/QUOTE]
some? we're going to lose all but 13, and even then there's not enough sasvings to be under the cap. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=That Guy]some? we're going to lose all but 13, and even then there's not enough sasvings to be under the cap.[/QUOTE]
That's assuming NOBODY restructures. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=RedskinPete]Is cutting Burnell a better thing for the cap and keeping Ramsey? If so it seems like a better idea so maybe we could keep others![/QUOTE]
sixteenth time, no, cutting brunell costs 300k more than keeping him and keeping ramsey costs almost 1.7mill more than dumping him. if we got a new CBA then it'd be flipped. but right now we don't, so that's nto an option. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=RedskinPete]Is cutting Burnell a better thing for the cap and keeping Ramsey? If so it seems like a better idea so maybe we could keep others![/QUOTE]
Can't cut Brunell. It would cost us more to cut him than to keep him. Have to let Ramsey go. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=Huddle]It would probably be a mistake to try to be competitive.
I think you'd have to look at it as sacrificing the 2006 season and lop off top-salaried vets who are on the downside of their careers: Brunell, Samuels, Springs, Daniels...keep as much young talent as possible.[/QUOTE] hate to say it but I think you are right! Keep the young talent and we will have to let go the older players! Worest case is here so deal with it! |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=That Guy]sixteenth time, no, cutting brunell costs 300k more than keeping him and keeping ramsey costs almost 1.7mill more than dumping him. if we got a new CBA then it'd be flipped. but right now we don't, so that's nto an option.[/QUOTE]
But we should cut Brunell right? ;) |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=That Guy]sixteenth time, no, cutting brunell costs 300k more than keeping him and keeping ramsey costs almost 1.7mill more than dumping him. if we got a new CBA then it'd be flipped. but right now we don't, so that's nto an option.[/QUOTE]
Thanks so he[Burnell] is sitting pretty!!! Well lets say that this happens and all these players have to be cut. Wouldn't you say the best way to look at this is not what we can get out of the 06 season but what will be left to rebuild in 07. So keep young talent and pass on guys that will be too old! So looking at the bottom line is not the only thing to look at! |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
we won't have a choice, we'll have to let just about everyone go.
springs, griffin, lavar will be forced to stay due to their contracts. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=Mattyk72]But we should cut Brunell right?
;)[/QUOTE] I'm sure it was part of Lord Gibbs evil master plan to rid the Redskins of Ramsey by structuring the deal that way since he knew the CBA wouldn't be extended.. (insert maniacal laughter and a Monty Burns-esque 'Excellent' here) |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=Paintrain]I'm sure it was part of Lord Gibbs evil master plan to rid the Redskins of Ramsey by structuring the deal that way since he knew the CBA wouldn't be extended.. (insert maniacal laughter and a Monty Burns-esque 'Excellent' here)[/QUOTE]
lets face facts a 34 year old QB will not last long with out help if we have to cut all these guys? The 06 season many be time to let a young QB ready himself for 07! GOOOOOOOOCampbell!!!!!! :towel: :towel: :towel: :towel: |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=That Guy]we won't have a choice, we'll have to let just about everyone go.
springs, griffin, lavar will be forced to stay due to their contracts.[/QUOTE] AND BRUNELL !!! How many times must we explain this to you? (insert smiley face) |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=Huddle]AND BRUNELL !!! How many times must we explain this to you? (insert smiley face)[/QUOTE]
I was happy to see Burnell help the Skins out!!! Way to be a team leader Mark!!! :towel: :towel: :towel: :towel: :towel: :towel: :towel: |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
please spare mike sellers from the cut list
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
Ugh. That's all I have to say. Ugh.
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Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=Schneed10]If there is no CBA extension, as appears will be the case, we will enter the final uncapped season.
The following players will NOT be considered potential cuts by the Redskins, because cutting them will cost more than keeping them: Shawn Springs Clinton Portis Mark Brunell Randy Thomas Cornelius Griffin Sean Taylor Santana Moss Carlos Rogers Jason Campbell Lavar Arrington Everyone else would get consideration for the axe, because cutting them would represent a savings. For the rest of the roster, here are the players with the potential to get cut, in an order based on my perception of most likely to be cut to the least likely to be cut. Player - Cap Savings Matt Bowen - $2 M Brandon Noble - $1.7 M Cory Raymer - $1 M Walt Harris - $2 M Patrick Ramsey - $1.7 M (assuming trade) John Hall - $1.2 M James Thrash - $875 K Pierson Prioleau - $550 K David Patten - $650 K Taylor Jacobs - $100 K Tom Tupa - $600 K Mike Sellers - $500 K Reynaldo Wynn - $400 K Casey Rabach - $1.1 M Ladell Betts - $550 K Manny White - $100 K Joe Salavea'a - $500 K Phillip Daniels - $800 K Lemar Marshall - $400 K Derrick Dockery - $450 K Jon Jansen - $800 K Marcus Washington - $500 K Chris Samuels - $300 K Chris Cooley - $200 K So I'm saying Bowen is the most likely to be cut, and Cooley is the least likely. If I were GM and I had to make cuts, I'd go straight down the list from the top until I got under the cap. Hopefully people restructure enough so that we don't have to go too far down the list. All the other players on the roster don't have signing bonuses, they just have the league minimum base salaries based on their level of experience. Guys like Ryan Boschetti could be replaced by rookies to save about $100 K apiece.[/QUOTE] If all the players on that bottom list were cut it would save us a total of only 18.975 million! |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=bigm29]If all the players on that bottom list were cut it would save us a total of only 18.975 million![/QUOTE]
i posted about that too... 34 1st year guys, 13 guys from the 2005 roster and only 47 players on the team this year... IF no one restructures. everyone that helps out now keeps more people on board and they'll probably all get danny love later on for it. we're lucky gibbs came back. I don't think norv or spurrier could give players the kinda religion about team they need to give money back. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=That Guy]i posted about that too... 34 1st year guys, 13 guys from the 2005 roster and only 47 players on the team this year... IF no one restructures. everyone that helps out now keeps more people on board and they'll probably all get danny love later on for it.
we're lucky gibbs came back. I don't think norv or spurrier could give players the kinda religion about team they need to give money back.[/QUOTE] Exactly, that's why I don't feel TOO bad about the lack of cba extension. I posted in another thread the same thought - Danny will give a couple of winks & hopefully he's a man of his word & takes care of some guys in 07. In addition, let's not forget that the grass is only greener in a few towns, like ARizona, Minn. & Cleveland, otherwise the free agent $ ain't lookin too fat in 06. It will be a buyer's market, in many cases players might be advised to pursure contracts that give them an option to hit the market in 07. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
[QUOTE=freddyg12]Exactly, that's why I don't feel TOO bad about the lack of cba extension. I posted in another thread the same thought - Danny will give a couple of winks & hopefully he's a man of his word & takes care of some guys in 07. In addition, let's not forget that the grass is only greener in a few towns, like ARizona, Minn. & Cleveland, otherwise the free agent $ ain't lookin too fat in 06. It will be a buyer's market, in many cases players might be advised to pursure contracts that give them an option to hit the market in 07.[/QUOTE]
right, the money in the drafts and FA is going to be terrible... i bet some starters end up as backups or vet min or taking a year off/cfl/etc... everyone wants to have a shot for the 2007 market though. |
Re: Core group to be competitive-Worst case
we are about to basically gut our team and berto is only worried about mike sellers?
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