Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1192550]Scherff is going to cash in hard next year[/quote]

I still can't believe we drafted a fricking guard with the 5th pick, but at least he's been very good.

What do we think he's getting next year money-wise?

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1192563]Moving on from these fucktards Overthecap...moving on[/QUOTE]Yea. Such a silly write up. The only way to evaluate an off-season is how the players perform in a teams system compared to their cost.

This is as stupid as grading a team's draft the day after.

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Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=simbosargos75;1192581]I still can't believe we drafted a fricking guard with the 5th pick, but at least he's been very good.

What do we think he's getting next year money-wise?[/quote]

They thought he was a tackle. And he is signed for two more years.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Scherff[/url]

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1192590]They thought he was a tackle. And he is signed for two more years.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Scherff[/url][/quote]

Picking him also turned Moses' career around as well. Moses was heavy footed and slow off the ball until the Skins brough Scherff in. Those two together have turned into a great tandem.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1192590]They thought he was a tackle. And he is signed for two more years.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Scherff[/url][/quote]

Yeah, I know they thought he was a tackle. Which is disturbing in itself.

My bad on the years. Brain fart.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1192559]Not good if we go 13 vita and he turns out to be Shelton...[/QUOTE]



I agree. I’d prefer Payne.


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Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/36286/vernon-davis-happy-to-be-reunited-with-alex-smith-says-qb-has-improved]Vernon Davis happy to be reunited with Alex Smith, sees improved QB - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url]

forgot about this connection...hopefully Smith can raise Davis's play.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1192560]I really like Overthecap, but think this is a pretty Glass half empty review:

[url]https://overthecap.com/2018-free-agency-review-redskins[/url][/QUOTE]



Seems like a pretty fair write-up to me. We’ve made some moves, sure... but we lost quite few good players from a very average 2017 team. I know we had a lot of injuries last year, but i honestly can’t say i think we’d have been that much better if we hadn’t. Talent wise, i think we’ve taken several steps back from where back in 2016. As a fan, I’m always hopeful, but it’s going to take a miraculous draft for us to be any better than 9-7.


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Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;1192600]Seems like a pretty fair write-up to me. We’ve made some moves, sure... but we lost quite few good players from a very average 2017 team. I know we had a lot of injuries last year, [B]but i honestly can’t say i think we’d have been that much better if we hadn’t[/B]. Talent wise, i think we’ve taken several steps back from where back in 2016. As a fan, I’m always hopeful, but it’s going to take a miraculous draft for us to be any better than 9-7.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

- Really? We wouldn't have won [B]at the very least 3 more games[/B] if our defense had stayed as effective as it was when [U]Allen, Ioannidis and Foster[/U] all were healthy, and our Oline had stayed Williams, Lauvao, Long, Scherff, Moses instead of [U]TJ Clemmings, Arie Kouandjio, Tony F'in Bergstrom, Tyler Catalina and Moses-on-one-leg[/U] ?



- As for the OTC review, I think it's too early to judge.

[B]+[/B]
Bringing AS was the best possible solution to get out of our QB mess IMO.
Signing Brown and Foster was necessary and was done at fair prices.
Richardson is a nice addition on a reasonable contract.

[B]-[/B]
Not crazy high on the Scandrick deal (but we had to bring in someone).
Losing Fuller s*cks (but I think it's safe to say it pretty much was the only way to get Smith)
Wished we kept Spencer Long and Trent Murphy (but not at 7M/y each, they both should have been extended earlier)

Come September, our offseason could be anything from an [B]A[/B] if we sign Hankins, trade down, draft Payne, a baller LG, a stud RB and a promising CB to a [B]D[/B] if we sign nobody else and have a shitty draft...

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

Depth along the Oline is a fucking issue...FO has sat on its hands so far. Not good.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1192602]Depth along the Oline is a fucking issue...FO has sat on its hands so far. Not good.[/QUOTE]Who would you have had them pick up?

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1192605]Who would you have had them pick up?[/quote]

After seeing what happened last year, there is no one in a pool of free agents who could help? It maybe still too early for my criticism with the draft a couple weeks away....late rounders who the team likes could certainly fill that need.

But we need a couple guys and a starting left guard.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1192608]After seeing what happened last year, there is no one in a pool of free agents who could help? It maybe still too early for my criticism with the draft a couple weeks away....late rounders who the team likes could certainly fill that need.

But we need a couple guys and a starting left guard.[/QUOTE]We had this discussion before. Last year all the injuries put a huge strain on our line, and gave Callahan a ton of tape on all our backups. Our line when healthy was very good, and with a new off season i trust our depth. I do want to get a left guard in the 4th/5th but we have 4 picks at least in those two rounds.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1192609]We had this discussion before. Last year all the injuries put a huge strain on our line, and gave Callahan a ton of tape on all our backups. Our line when healthy was very good, and with a new off season i trust our depth.[B] I do want to get a left guard in the 4th/5th but we have 4 picks at least in those two rounds[/B].[/quote]

We only have 3. The trade with the Broncos just made us move up a couple of spots in both the 4th and the 5th, and get an extra 5th.

This is why I'd like to trade down in the first, to use an extra 2nd on a guard.

Guys for depth on the OL can be found later in FA, we know Nsekhe and Kouandjio are real quality back ups, but TJ Clemmings and Catalina are just flat out awful. Bergstrom is ok to fill the gap if needed.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[QUOTE=FrenchSkin;1192611]We only have 3. The trade with the Broncos just made us move up a couple of spots in both the 4th and the 5th, and get an extra 5th.

This is why I'd like to trade down in the first, to use an extra 2nd on a guard.

Guys for depth on the OL can be found later in FA, we know Nsekhe and Kouandjio are real quality back ups, but TJ Clemmings and Catalina are just flat out awful. Bergstrom is ok to fill the gap if needed.[/QUOTE]I would not be shocked at all if we trade back.

We need a starting LG. Thats a must but i think the rest of the OL is good, and barring another injury season where we are literally signing OL off rhe street to dress for that week's game, we have solid backups as well.

Unfortunately, as long as we play on Fedex's abysmal field we may stay in the top 10% of injured teams.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1192612]I would not be shocked at all if we trade back.

We need a starting LG. Thats a must but i think the rest of the OL is good, and barring another injury season where we are literally signing OL off rhe street to dress for that week's game, we have solid backups as well.

Unfortunately, as long as we play on Fedex's abysmal field we may stay in the top 10% of injured teams.[/quote]

We should, but at this time we don’t. And that is simply a fact. Until it actually happens, we don’t have quality depth at Oline.

We should have last year, but we didn’t. And that’s a fact too.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[QUOTE=Chico23231;1192613]We should, but at this time we don’t. And that is simply a fact. Until it actually happens, we don’t have quality depth at Oline.

We should have last year, but we didn’t. And that’s a fact too.[/QUOTE]No team in the league has the depth at OL to account for 5 starters and 2 or more backups having multi game injuries wuthin one season. That is also a fact.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1192614]No team in the league has the depth at OL to account for 5 starters and 2 or more backups having multi game injuries wuthin one season. That is also a fact.[/quote]

You realize we do not have the 5 starters. We do not have a starting caliber LG on our roster, Arie K. is not good enough.
Our starting Center has started just 7 games and is still in the unproven category. He looks promising but still unproven.
We have good back ups at Tackle. That is all.
Not sure what you are seeing?
Spending a 4th or later round pick on a starting guard is poor planning.
Poor prioritizing when we over spend on an injury prone WR and CB when we a have massive a hole at LG. WR's are easier to find in draft than starting guard.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

We def need a LG more so than a DL imo, which is why I hate not being able to draft Nelson (who is the best player in the draft).

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1192617]We def need a LG more so than a DL imo, which is why I hate not being able to draft Nelson (who is the best player in the draft).[/quote]

Billy Price might be another good option

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=GridIron26;1192618]Billy Price might be another good option[/quote]

True and the kid from UTEP as well. Nelson probably wouldn't be so highly valued due to being a G but since Dallas took Z Martin that has all changed. I remember the "experts" all clowning Jerry for that pick.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

Payne and Price, nice ring to it

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=MTK;1192620]Payne and Price, nice ring to it[/quote]

Id take it.

draft a couple more Oline later in the draft. Re-Sign Luavo to a non-guarantee and tell him he wont see the field unless someone is injured.

The Lines would be set.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

Has there been any news on Bree or Junior? Wonder if we would bring those guys back

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1192622]Has there been any news on Bree or Junior? Wonder if we would bring those guys back[/quote]

Scandrick and McPhee signings should have closed the books on those 2.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1192623]Scandrick and McPhee signings should have closed the books on those 2.[/quote]

Yeah I guess so, but nobody has even seemed interested in those guys lol

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=Chico23231;1192621]Id take it.

draft a couple more Oline later in the draft. Re-Sign Luavo to a non-guarantee and tell him he wont see the field unless someone is injured.

The Lines would be set.[/quote]

I am not a fan of Luavao.
When healthy he is barely ok. I think we need to do better and younger with a development guy, instead and injury prone underachieving older guy like Luavoa or however you spell his name.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;1192616]You realize we do not have the 5 starters. We do not have a starting caliber LG on our roster, Arie K. is not good enough.
Our starting Center has started just 7 games and is still in the unproven category. He looks promising but still unproven.
We have good back ups at Tackle. That is all.
Not sure what you are seeing?
Spending a 4th or later round pick on a starting guard is poor planning.
Poor prioritizing when we over spend on an injury prone WR and CB when we a have massive a hole at LG. WR's are easier to find in draft than starting guard.[/quote]

I said we need a starting LG, although I trust Callahan enough to know that he sees more than I do. Prioritizing our current starting needs, I would put NT 1, RB 2, and LG 3. And those are the rounds I would draft each one in. There was no FA guard that I would have wanted the Skins to spend money on that would be noticeably better than Arie, or any of our other backups from last year. (I would not have been a fan of a big money signing for a guard).

The WR was a position of need, and sorry but PR is a fantastic pickup on a good deal. I'm not a fan of Scandrick, so I won't give a positive on that.

I absolutely disagree with your statement that a WR is easier to find then a guard in the draft, that's just crazy talk. ESPECIALLY when you are looking at players in the 4-7 rounds where we will have picks to burn. We aren't taking a WR or a guard with our first two picks. Atleast we better not!.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;1192625]I am not a fan of Luavao.
When healthy he is barely ok. I think we need to do better and younger with a development guy, instead and injury prone underachieving older guy like Luavoa or however you spell his name.[/quote]

True...its just at this point of the market...he's probably the best available depth guy at interior Oline on the market.

Most teams with actual plans took about 15-17 guys depth guys off the market so far at Oline. Another 10 depth guys went off the market at slightly larger rates who may compete to start...say 1 or 2 year deals at about Nsheke cost or slightly greater. He is the one depth guy we have who is extremely solid.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;1192616]You realize we do not have the 5 starters. We do not have a starting caliber LG on our roster, Arie K. is not good enough.
Our starting Center has started just 7 games and is still in the unproven category. He looks promising but still unproven.
We have good back ups at Tackle. That is all.
Not sure what you are seeing?
Spending a 4th or later round pick on a starting guard is poor planning.
Poor prioritizing when we over spend on an injury prone WR and CB when we a have massive a hole at LG. WR's are easier to find in draft than starting guard.[/quote]

Also, our line consists of a [B]Allpro LT[/B], scrub LG, [B]solid C[/B] (may be better than solid, but he isn't bad), [B]Probowl RG[/B], [B]Solid to Very Good RT[/B].

So as a unit, they are definitely capable when healthy.

Our backups include a Strong backup tackle, a solid backup guards (maybe not starters, but solid backups), and I'm not sure about the backup center right now.

We also have a very strong OL coach.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1192617]We def need a LG more so than a DL imo, which is why I hate not being able to draft Nelson (who is the best player in the draft).[/quote]

There is no way we need LG more than a run stopping DL.

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/36311]Jonathan Allen absence showed Washington Redskins they need DL help - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url]

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1192628]Also, our line consists of a [B]Allpro LT[/B], scrub LG, [B]solid C[/B] (may be better than solid, but he isn't bad), [B]Probowl RG[/B], [B]Solid to Very Good RT[/B].

So as a unit, they are definitely capable when healthy.

Our backups include a Strong backup tackle, a solid backup guards (maybe not starters, but solid backups), and I'm not sure about the backup center right now.

We also have a very strong OL coach.[/quote]

So why can't we run the ball with all these good players and an outstanding OL coach? Are you ready to blame it on the RB's? I mean, how bad must those RB's (and their coach) be? Shouldn't even a pedestrian RB be able to gain yardage behind this good line coached by a stellar OL coach, which you presume them to be?

To all of those people I say: [B]Show me the production![/B] Until that happens, the [U]unit[/U], which is what counts in an O-Line, and the OL coach (and run coordinator, BTW) are failing to do their jobs.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1192629]There is no way we need LG more than a run stopping DL.

[url=http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/36311]Jonathan Allen absence showed Washington Redskins they need DL help - Washington Redskins Blog- ESPN[/url][/quote]

If we can get a true stud at LG then that can make the entire line better. It helps control the clock and keep the defense fresh if we have a better running game. When it's always 2nd and 10 or worse when there's a run on 1st down then that puts a strain on the entire offense and makes it tough to keep the chains moving. I'm so sick and tired of not being able to run the ball.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;1192632]If we can get a true stud at LG then that can make the entire line better. It helps control the clock and keep the defense fresh if we have a better running game. When it's always 2nd and 10 or worse when there's a run on 1st down then that puts a strain on the entire offense and makes it tough to keep the chains moving. I'm so sick and tired of not being able to run the ball.[/QUOTE]I agree but being last in run defense keeps the team D on the field instead of making critical stops

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

But were we last in run defense with Allen Ioannidis and Foster healthy?

We were last (or close to it) [U]because[/U] they were hurt.

I'm not saying we don't need even more depth, but it's not clear cut to me that we must use our 1st rounder on the DL.

Best player available, please.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

the problem with trying to address both in the draft is theres a lot of talent at other positions, if we go DT in rd 1 -- when do you take a G that you expect to make a true impact in year 1? rd 4+ ? or do you go DT, then G in 1 and 2 ? I feel like theres a lot of talent that we'd be leaving behind on our 2nd pick if we went G

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1192634]But were we last in run defense with Allen Ioannidis and Foster healthy?

We were last (or close to it) [U]because[/U] they were hurt.

I'm not saying we don't need even more depth, but it's not clear cut to me that we must use our 1st rounder on the DL.

Best player available, please.[/quote]

This is my argument of why we need LG over DT, when Allen and Foster were playing we were better and we were surprised at way the Defense played early in the yr. We cant run the ball for shit

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1192628]Also, our line consists of a [B]Allpro LT[/B], scrub LG, [B]solid C[/B] (may be better than solid, but he isn't bad), [B]Probowl RG[/B], [B]Solid to Very Good RT[/B].

So as a unit, they are definitely capable when healthy.

Our backups include a Strong backup tackle, a solid backup guards (maybe not starters, but solid backups), and I'm not sure about the backup center right now.

We also have a very strong OL coach.[/quote]

I'm not sure who's your starting LG right now, Arie Kouandjio? I think he's your solid back up guard. But if he's your scrub starting LG, and Nsekhe is your strong back up tackle, then who's your solid back up guard? It sure isn't Catalina ^^

[url=http://www.redskins.com/team/roster.html]Redskins.com | Players[/url]

Anyway, I do agree with you our OL is a pretty good unit. I blame a lot of the lack of running game on our TEs' poor blocking, and the lack of vision of our backs. And of course the injuries last year.

If we improve at LG (and I do hope we draft one in the first 3 rounds) and we [B]stop calling running plays that rely on our TE blocking well[/B], which they almost never do, we could see our running game improve.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1192639]This is my argument of why we need LG over DT, when Allen and Foster were playing we were better and we were surprised at way the Defense played early in the yr. We cant run the ball for shit[/quote]

Agree with the run defense piece. I'd happily take Vea at 13 but I'm not married to it.

But I'm not sure a good LG will solve the run game problem though. With Scherff and Trent on the line there has to be a way to run the ball better, even with Lauvao in the lineup. I can't reconcile in my mind why we're not already better on the ground.

I think it's a combination of:

- We don't play with a fullback, so tight ends need to block well, and Reed doesn't

- Kelley and Perine aren't a serious breakaway threat

- When DeSean Jackson left there was no threat whatsoever to keep the safeties from creeping forward. Richardson should help here.

- I think Jay's formations tend to broadcast whether we're running or passing. When we line up to throw, the tackles are quite often lined up a half step back from the center. When they line up on the ball with hand in the dirt, it's a run almost all the time. This is just my perception of it, I haven't chopped up tape and I haven't counted how often this is true. So there's my disclaimer. But I think there's some broadcasting of run vs pass.

- Little individual line issues. Trent and Scherff are big enough and athletic enough to run either zone (emphasizes mobility) or power (emphasizes brute force). But Spencer Long was a power guy and failed to reach on stretch zones. And Moses, as much as I love him, is more of a pass blocker than a run blocker, which makes matters real tough when he's got Reed lined up next to him. Lauvao was too inconsistent.

So there's a lot more at play here than drafting a LG will fix. You hope Roullier will be better than Long, I feel optimistic there. And I think Richardson reintroduces the speed aspect vs the safeties. And I think Alex Smith's athleticism and abilities with the RPO and read option will threaten defenses in different ways. But tight end is going to remain a problem, Moses needs to flat out improve as a run blocker, and we need a RB that scares defenses. There are a lot of reasons.

Re: Redskins Offseason Thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;1192642]Agree with the run defense piece. I'd happily take Vea at 13 but I'm not married to it.

But I'm not sure a good LG will solve the run game problem though. With Scherff and Trent on the line there has to be a way to run the ball better, even with Lauvao in the lineup. I can't reconcile in my mind why we're not already better on the ground.

I think it's a combination of:

- We don't play with a fullback, so tight ends need to block well, and Reed doesn't

- Kelley and Perine aren't a serious breakaway threat

- When DeSean Jackson left there was no threat whatsoever to keep the safeties from creeping forward. Richardson should help here.

- I think Jay's formations tend to broadcast whether we're running or passing. When we line up to throw, the tackles are quite often lined up a half step back from the center. When they line up on the ball with hand in the dirt, it's a run almost all the time. This is just my perception of it, I haven't chopped up tape and I haven't counted how often this is true. So there's my disclaimer. But I think there's some broadcasting of run vs pass.

- Little individual line issues. Trent and Scherff are big enough and athletic enough to run either zone (emphasizes mobility) or power (emphasizes brute force). But Spencer Long was a power guy and failed to reach on stretch zones. And Moses, as much as I love him, is more of a pass blocker than a run blocker, which makes matters real tough when he's got Reed lined up next to him. Lauvao was too inconsistent.

So there's a lot more at play here than drafting a LG will fix. You hope Roullier will be better than Long, I feel optimistic there. And I think Richardson reintroduces the speed aspect vs the safeties. And I think Alex Smith's athleticism and abilities with the RPO and read option will threaten defenses in different ways. But tight end is going to remain a problem, Moses needs to flat out improve as a run blocker, and we need a RB that scares defenses. There are a lot of reasons.[/quote]

FB would really help like when Sellers was around, man I miss that guy. I know we usually tend to run left mostly due to TW but I'd have to find a breakdown of the % of which way we run most. I agree about Moses he's like a Tyron Smith but Smith is a better run blocker not as great of a pass blocker. Lauvao just lacks the strength/athleticism, nothing else to say about the guy, he is a gamer but he's a backup on most teams. Roullier did look good last yr when he played so that is a good sign, and Jay has said good things about him in past interviews. Reed can't block me and you, he looks like he doesn't even try, VDavis isn't much better. No doubt it's more than LG we also lack a true RB1 but still, having Nelson on the line would just be NASTY.

Also yes the knock on Jay is he never commits to the run and didn't in Cincy either, so lets hope that can change with a RB1/LG combo