[QUOTE=NC_Skins;1054592]Judging by this facial expression, you think Jay is having second thoughts?.....lol

[url]https://vine.co/v/h36EJqwFKAH[/url][/QUOTE]

I was not happy that my new coach reminded me of Vinny......at all. Lol

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1054572]After last season this team needs to stay low and out of the spotlight a while. Screw Hard Knocks.[/quote]

LOL. I was just thinking on the way in to work, shit I hope we are not chosen to be on Hard Knocks......

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

Can anyone verify this:
Chris Russell ‏@Russellmania980 10m
Still don't get the hate for Haz. 2011 - 13th ranked D, 2012 - NFCE title, 2013 - 18th ranked D overall (7th in #NFL since Week 3) #Redskins
Expand

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;1054616]Can anyone verify this:
Chris Russell ‏@Russellmania980 10m
Still don't get the hate for Haz. 2011 - 13th ranked D, 2012 - NFCE title, 2013 - 18th ranked D overall (7th in #NFL since Week 3) #Redskins
Expand[/quote]

that may work on a novice fan

Points allowed rank:

2013: 31st, .01 away from worst in the league

2012: 28

2011: 13

2010: 21

Its strange how the more Haz/Shanny guys turned over on the roster, the more they struggled. Sorry folks, dont insult me by listing crap stats and then somehow trying to re write history saying Defense wasnt an issue. Haz is not a not a good DC, he is just as responsible for the skins record as Shanny. This isnt a case where the defense showed up and the offense never did. Please dont feed me that bullshit.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

The defense had some really bad games this year, but one of the things that hurt the perception of the defense is that fans tend to lump defense and special teams together as one when they say "defense." And our defense and special teams combined has never been worse in the history of the franchise than it was this year.

Haslett, of course, does not coach the special teams, and the defense, while below average for an NFL unit, has not underachieved its talent level since he has been here.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

DC we need to consider right now:

1.Gregg Williams
2.Ray Horton
3.Wide Phillips
4.Todd Bowles (if somehow he wanted to come to Washington)

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1054621]The defense had some really bad games this year, but one of the things that hurt the perception of the defense is that fans tend to lump defense and special teams together as one when they say "defense." And our defense and special teams combined has never been worse in the history of the franchise than it was this year.

Haslett, of course, does not coach the special teams, and the defense, while below average for an NFL unit, has not underachieved its talent level since he has been here.[/quote]

So continue the course with Haz in place?

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1054623]So continue the course with Haz in place?[/quote]Depends on his contract situation. And what the head coach thinks.

If he's in the last year of his deal, I'd terminate and find someone else. If he has multiple years remaining, I'd stick with him in 2014.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1054621]The defense had some really bad games this year, but one of the things that hurt the perception of the defense is that fans tend to lump defense and special teams together as one when they say "defense." And our defense and special teams combined has never been worse in the history of the franchise than it was this year.

Haslett, of course, does not coach the special teams, and [B]the defense, while below average for an NFL unit, has not underachieved its talent level since he has been here.[/B][/quote]

I gotta disagree Tripp. We finished 31st in defense in 2013 - are there really 30 other teams with more talent on defense than us? Same argument goes for 2012, etc.

While we need talent, especially in the secondary, IMO the talent argument is quite limited.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1054581]Featuring Sally Jenkins as Daisy Duke.[/quote]

Ah man...don't ruin Daisy Duke's good name like that! LOL! :lol:

I understand the disappointment that some of you guys have with the notion that Jim Haslett is staying on as DC - at least for now. Believe me, it was a WTF moment for me as well. I would much rather Gruden bring in someone completely different to coach that side of the ball, but man, it is what it is. Let's see what Haslett and company can do with some better free agents this season.

So, can anybody confirm the coaches, other than the Shanahans of course, that were let go? Burns (ST) and who else?

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Lotus;1054625]I gotta disagree Tripp. We finished 31st in defense in 2013 - are there really 30 other teams with more talent on defense than us? Same argument goes for 2012, etc.

While we need talent, especially in the secondary, IMO the talent argument is quite limited.[/quote]31st in which ranking?

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

I think with Shanny gone and both Haz and Kyle were still around, much easier to make the arguement for Kyle to stay. The same arguement of special teams applys to both.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1054628]31st in which ranking?[/quote]

points allowed

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

So with the addition of talent coming with cap freedom, draft and Shanny's meddling, and better performing special teams(cant be worse than last year) we should expect a defense ranking of ?....at least top 15 right?

I think we are really kidding ourselves

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

FO has them at 22nd, about 4% below average

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2013 DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS[/url]

Be skeptical of anything that has them ranked bottom five, as that stat probably isn't adjusting for opponent.

Points allowed includes the worst special teams in the league in there when it's counts how many points this team allowed. That's what I'm saying: if you lump in the special teams with anything, this year's Redskins team becomes historically bad.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1054632]So with the addition of talent coming with cap freedom, draft and Shanny's meddling, and better performing special teams(cant be worse than last year) we should expect a defense ranking of ?....at least top 15 right?[/quote]Knowing nothing about the offseason they can have, my expectation would be 22nd-ish. Right about the same spot.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

Bottom line is we don't have one elite player on defense. Aldon Smith walks right out of some rehab joint and abuses Trent Williams. We don't have that player.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1054633]FO has them at 22nd, about 4% below average

[url=http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2013 DEFENSIVE EFFICIENCY RATINGS[/url]

Be skeptical of anything that has them ranked bottom five, as that stat probably isn't adjusting for opponent.[/quote]

You watch the Minnesota game? You watch the KC game? Hell, even the Chicago game we won?

Folks, 3-13 tied for worst record in the history of the Skins, heads roll

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1054636]You watch the Minnesota game? You watch the KC game? Hell, even the Chicago game we won?

Folks, 3-13 tied for worst record in the history of the Skins, heads roll[/quote]I did not watch the KC game. Knew at that point that nothing would be changing under Mike Shanahan.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1054635]Bottom line is we don't have one elite player on defense. Aldon Smith walks right out of some rehab joint and abuses Trent Williams. We don't have that player.[/quote]

Your gonna be really pissed if Orakpo leaves

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=GTripp0012;1054638]I did not watch the KC game. Knew at that point that nothing would be changing under Mike Shanahan.[/quote]

Packers and first Eagles game? just wow on those performances...I can keep going...Defense came out and played terrible at least 8 games of the season. I mean they played like the worse defense in the league half the games of the season

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1054604](Continuing the song)
Can't get Dalton to learn,
INTs aren't good will,
Someday we might win,
but with there two pro'lly never will.

Jay Gruden's team won,
on the strength of their D.
Why we take Gruden and Haslett,
seems wrong based on their history.

Just two average C's,
never did that much good.
Why didn't we get a Seahawks coach
or Whisenhunt, I think we should.

YeeeeeHaaaaaaaW!
[IMG]http://www.blueprintsys.com/images/uploads/car.jpg[/IMG]

(Here's hoping the Skins prove me wrong.)[/quote]

What do you get out of being so negative?

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1054622]DC we need to consider right now:

1.Gregg Williams
2.Ray Horton
3.Wide Phillips
4.Todd Bowles (if somehow he wanted to come to Washington)[/quote]

My sources tell me (and when I say source, I mean I heard it on the radio) they're considering bumping Haz up to assistant head coach and bumping Morris up to DC.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1054620]that may work on a novice fan

Points allowed rank:

2013: 31st, .01 away from worst in the league

2012: 28

2011: 13

2010: 21

Its strange how the more Haz/Shanny guys turned over on the roster, the more they struggled. Sorry folks, dont insult me by listing crap stats and then somehow trying to re write history saying Defense wasnt an issue. Haz is not a not a good DC, he is just as responsible for the skins record as Shanny. This isnt a case where the defense showed up and the offense never did. Please dont feed me that bullshit.[/quote]

Special teams and the offense also contribute to points allowed.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1054584]They're grown men, not a middle school team. It's not like the guy is Rutger's Mike Rice. If this is his style, so be it, just get out there and execute.[/quote]

I was a big fan of Bobby Knight. Sure choking kids and throwing chairs isn't conventional, but you can't deny his passion and he knows how to motivate a team to play for him, even if it's out of fear.

I'd take a coach who throws Gatorade jugs at the refs when they hand Dallas and the Giants points with horrible calls. Someone needs to care about winning around here. :D


Hey, lets bring back Gregg Williams as DC.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1054639]Your gonna be really pissed if Orakpo leaves[/quote]

I'd hate to see him go. However, he should not be paid elite money because he's not an elite player. He's one of the best players on a bad defense.

Someone mentioned this a while back, how many sacks does Rak have against NFC East opponents? Barely any...

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Chico23231;1054641]Packers and first Eagles game? just wow on those performances...I can keep going...Defense came out and played terrible at least 8 games of the season. I mean they played like the worse defense in the league half the games of the season[/quote]I mean, that's not true, but okay.

The thing with the first Eagles game is that we were getting our ass kicked at half, and then the D turned it around and kept us in it (a microcosm of the season, really). Also scored the first TD of the season.

I'm not defending the defense against anything but hyperbole. 22nd, or 25th or 27th or wherever it actually finished, is not very good. And some of the passing chunks they gave up were preventable with better communication, or the coaches at least acknowledging that this team has sucked in zone coverage for four years. Which is frustrating. But it doesn't get infuriating until you include the special teams. And a lot of people DO hang the ST performance on the defense. That's fine. I'm just pointing that out.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;1054616]Can anyone verify this:
Chris Russell ‏@Russellmania980 10m
Still don't get the hate for Haz. 2011 - 13th ranked D, 2012 - NFCE title, 2013 - 18th ranked D overall (7th in #NFL since Week 3) #Redskins
Expand[/quote]What the hell?

[url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG]NFL Stats: by Team Category[/url]

Haslett's D was tied for next to worst (#30) in giving up points in 2013. #18 ranked D in giving up yards.

For 2012, Haslett's D was tied for being ranked #20 in points given up. #28 ranked D in giving up yards.

For 2011, Haslett's D was ranked #21 in points given up. #13 ranked D in yards.

So Haslett's D was mediocre in 2011, and bad in 2012 and 2013. Sure, let's keep him on our staff! I don't understand the hate either! lol.

Is Chris Russel trolling, or what? Reminds me how how numbers are spun in politics: There's lies, damned lies, and statistics!

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1054604](Continuing the song)
Can't get Dalton to learn,
INTs aren't good will,
Someday we might win,
but with there two pro'lly never will.

Jay Gruden's team won,
on the strength of their D.
Why we take Gruden and Haslett,
seems wrong based on their history.

Just two average C's,
never did that much good.
Why didn't we get a Seahawks coach
or Whisenhunt, I think we should.

YeeeeeHaaaaaaaW!
[IMG]http://www.blueprintsys.com/images/uploads/car.jpg[/IMG]

(Here's hoping the Skins prove me wrong.)[/quote]

Isn't that the final scene from Thelma and Louise? lol come on you could've at least gotten a picture of the General Lee.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=punch it in;1054612]I was not happy that my new coach reminded me of Vinny......at all. Lol[/quote]

Ha...that was just the moment when he actually saw on the monitor who was asking these questions into his ear.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

London comments yesterday sealed it for me, noway I want Haz DC. Move up Morris or hire someone other than Spags. For the record Haz>Spags all day long.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1054667]Isn't that the final scene from Thelma and Louise? lol come on you could've at least gotten a picture of the General Lee.[/quote]

Yeah I mean come on. What is a Duke's of Hazzard reference without the General Lee?

[IMG]http://cdn.speednik.com/files/2012/04/general_lee_jump_video.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1054666]What the hell?

[url=http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&season=2013&seasonType=REG&role=OPP&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-p=1&conference=ALL&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_GAME_AVG]NFL Stats: by Team Category[/url]

Haslett's D was tied for next to worst (#30) in giving up points in 2013. #18 ranked D in giving up yards.

For 2012, Haslett's D was tied for being ranked #20 in points given up. #28 ranked D in giving up yards.

For 2011, Haslett's D was ranked #21 in points given up. #13 ranked D in yards.

So Haslett's D was mediocre in 2011, and bad in 2012 and 2013. Sure, let's keep him on our staff! I don't understand the hate either! lol.

Is Chris Russel trolling, or what? Reminds me how how numbers are spun in politics: There's lies, damned lies, and statistics![/quote]

He's going by yards allowed which is most commonly used when talking about D rankings.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;1054667]Isn't that the final scene from Thelma and Louise? lol come on you could've at least gotten a picture of the General Lee.[/quote]Thelma and Louise may be more appropriate in this case.

Did we really get the best coaching candidate anybody could in the NFL, or did we just hire a guy because of Bruce Allen's personal connections going back to Tampa Bay via Jon Gruden?

I mean, I would love to have Seattle's OC or DC, if that coach and not Pete Carrol is responsible for the offense Russel Wilson shines in, or the LEO defense. I always liked Ken Whisenhunt. Needs a great QB, but we have one, and he's done wonders resurrecting Kurt Warner and Phillip Rivers.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1054673]He's going by yards allowed which is most commonly used when talking about D rankings.[/quote]

I think you use both, but you also use takeaways as well. Haz has done ok imo in that department.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

I don't think anyone has made an argument that Haz is GOOD. Perhpas he isn't nearly as bad as some would like to believe though. I still hope we move on.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

I'm surprised the NFL does official offensive/defensive rankings. I mean, that's kind of an abuse of the word official, right?

Better stats were available as early as 2004, and by 2008, those stats were commonly used.

Yards allowed/points allowed always tells you something, sometimes, it can tell you something important. If you're facing the top ranked offense in yards gained, it's helpful to know if your defense is giving up a ton of yards that this is normal. But I don't think there's any difference between an official stat and an unofficial one. You have to use the one that best answers the question you are asking.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=Mattyk;1054673]He's going by yards allowed which is most commonly used when talking about D rankings.[/quote]Yeah, which I and I think some others disagree on. Holding teams to FGs for example matters a lot to me. If you aren't talking yds/game *and* pts/game, you aren't accurately describing a D's ranking in the league, IMO.

The Chris Russel quote cherry picks a couple favorable stats on a below average D the last couple years. "Don't understand the hate" he says? Guess he thinks we should be happy with a bottom third defense.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

Haslett seems to run a boom or bust kind of D. His guys will either get to the QB or cause a turnover...or give up a big play.

There were times, even late this season where the D made some great goal line stands and we do get plenty of TOs and sacks.

Part of me wants him to get out of town because his defenses could not stop ANYONE, and part of me wants to see what his schemes and blitzes can do with a roster that's up to par with the rest of the league cost-wise, which we'll see in 2014.

If we do keep him, it has to be his last chance.

Personally, I'd promote Raheem unless we can snag someone like Wade Phillips, Gregg Williams or one of Buddy Ryan's sons. I'd rather not have to look at Rob Ryan on our sideline though.

Re: Jay Gruden hired as head coach of the Redskins
 

[quote=FRPLG;1054677]I don't think anyone has made an argument that Haz is GOOD. Perhpas he isn't nearly as bad as some would like to believe though. I still hope we move on.[/quote]After four years, I think Haz is league average.

He sometimes outschemes the opponent. Sometimes his schemes get busted. Oftentimes the defense looks really prepared. Other times they look like they don't know how an opponent is going to try to beat them. He frustrates a lot of quarterbacks. He also frustrates me.

He's not as good as Gregg Williams, but he's better than Greg Blache.