Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Ruhskins;988870]I keep looking at the play when Ngata hit RG3 and the way RG3's knee got twisted. I don't care if you are Cam Newton, [B]Russell Wilson (who is way smaller than RG3)[/B], Colin K., Big Ben, or any other mobile or running QB, your knee is going to get f'ed up. My point is that whether RG3 is 6'2"/217 lbs. or 6'5"/230 lbs., if your knee bends that way, you are screwed.

I think there is legitimate concern about him having his knee injured again. But plenty of people have come back from injuries such as Rivers back in 2007 or Willis McGahee. People forget how McGahee shredded his knee at the Fiesta Bowl in 2003 (he tore just about every CL there is on his knee). And was able to come back to have a good career.

I would first like to see how he recovers before I make outlandish statements about trading RG3 and keeping Cousins and all the other non-sense you keep hearing.[/quote]wilson (5'11" 206) is way smaller than griff (6'2" 217) like mike tyson (5'10" 230) is way smaller than brock osweiler (6'7" 242)

*edit, added heights and weights of these fellas

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Ruhskins;988879]I don't see anything wrong with RG3 becoming a mobile (not running) QB like Big Ben or Rodgers. I am not saying that RG3 is going to be healthy forever, but some people act like he's going to be Ryan Matthews or someone like that.[/quote]

Strait talk... No question he will be back. No doubt he can be a dangerous mobile QB. He has demonstrated he can also be dangerous in the pocket. I guess the question is going to be, can he limit himself and still play all out? Bigger question is, will he limit himself or go back to what he does best?

Definitely a wait and see.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=44ever;988881]Strait talk... No question he will be back. No doubt he can be a dangerous mobile QB. He has demonstrated he can also be dangerous in the pocket. I guess the question is going to be, can he limit himself and still play all out? Bigger question is, will he limit himself or go back to what he does best?

Definitely a wait and see.[/quote]

RG3 and limit don't even go together.

The guy is going to go back out there and push himself. Unless that knee is really killing him or Shanahan explicitly tells him that it's okay to run around but limit the long runs, Griff is going to try to be the Griff he was prior to the injury.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Ruhskins;988879]I don't see anything wrong with RG3 becoming a mobile (not running) QB like Big Ben or Rodgers. I am not saying that RG3 is going to be healthy forever, but some people act like he's going to be Ryan Matthews or someone like that.[/quote]

I think later in his career he has the arm and the ability to become a mobile, but not running QB. I think the next few years he will continue to be a running QB. The problem isn't the fact that RG3 is a running QB, the problem is he is a reckless runner. He's constantly looking for an extra 2 yards, a cut back lane, etc.

Even in the playoff game, he took multiple hits he could have avoided. Learn to slide. Learn to run out of bounds. Learn to throw the ball away. Live to fight another day. We get it. You're tough. You're also a bit stupid. Don't fight for those extra 2 yards in the 2nd quarter when you already got a first down.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=44ever;988881]Strait talk... No question he will be back. No doubt he can be a dangerous mobile QB. He has demonstrated he can also be dangerous in the pocket. I guess the question is going to be, can he limit himself and still play all out? Bigger question is, will he limit himself or go back to what he does best?

Definitely a wait and see.[/quote]

Why will it matter if Kirk Cousins is the future though?

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=los panda;988880]wilson (5'11" 206) is way smaller than griff (6'2" 217) like mike tyson (5'10" 230) is way smaller than brock osweiler (6'7" 242)

*edit, added heights and weights of these fellas[/quote]

Point taken. Still my argument is that no matter how big or small your body frame is, I think a knee bending the way it shouldn't is going to get injured.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=mooby;988889]why will it matter if kirk cousins is the future though?[/quote]

zing!

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Daseal;988886][B]I think later in his career he has the arm and the ability to become a mobile, but not running QB. I think the next few years he will continue to be a running QB.[/B] The problem isn't the fact that RG3 is a running QB, the problem is he is a reckless runner. He's constantly looking for an extra 2 yards, a cut back lane, etc.

Even in the playoff game, he took multiple hits he could have avoided. Learn to slide. Learn to run out of bounds. Learn to throw the ball away. Live to fight another day. We get it. You're tough. You're also a bit stupid. Don't fight for those extra 2 yards in the 2nd quarter when you already got a first down.[/quote]

I think that you are right.

Sooner or later Gryphon is destined to become less of a runner. Running backs burn out and leave the league early; running QB's who can throw have much longer careers during which they become less mobile and become more pure pocket passers (I'm thinking Moon, Cunningham, Elway, or perhaps McNair here).

It seems to me that the worst-case scenario of Gryphon's recovery is the hastening of his becoming more of a pure pocket passer earlier in his career - a pocket passer who is a beast, by the way.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Ruhskins;988890]Point taken. Still my argument is that no matter how big or small your body frame is, I think a knee bending the way it shouldn't is going to get injured.[/quote]i can dig it, it's true

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Mattyk;988601]I think this speaks to the warrior mentality players have. When we ask why RG3 didn't take himself out, consider this

[URL="http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/01/13/v-fullstory/3179926/dan-le-batard-jason-taylors-pain.html"]Dan Le Batard: Jason Taylor’s pain shows NFL’s world of hurt - Dan Le Batard - MiamiHerald.com[/URL][/quote]

For a sport? That's way beyond what I would have expected.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=RedskinRat;988894]For a sport? That's way beyond what I would have expected.[/quote]it's all relative, it's not a sport to them.

Funny story: my mom slipped at work a few days ago and is going to have surgery on her knee for it. Well thats not funny but I brought her in to her doctor today and he is also a sports doctor that does surgery on many athletes that go to OU. He saw my skins jacket and asked of course about RG3, well he said he thinks that Griffin will be fine because of his prior surgery in 2009, basically he said griff will be fine as long as there is no setback in the knee. Now of course this is just a random docs opinion but it was funny because he agreed with all of us saying. " I swear u would think this was 1970 the way they say Griffin won't be the same, in 2013 we have so much advancement with knee surgery "

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Ruhskins;988870]I keep looking at the play when Ngata hit RG3 and the way RG3's knee got twisted. I don't care if you are Cam Newton, Russell Wilson (who is way smaller than RG3), Colin K., Big Ben, or any other mobile or running QB, your knee is going to get f'ed up. My point is that whether RG3 is 6'2"/217 lbs. or 6'5"/230 lbs., if your knee bends that way, you are screwed.

I think there is legitimate concern about him having his knee injured again. But plenty of people have come back from injuries such as Rivers back in 2007 or Willis McGahee. People forget how McGahee shredded his knee at the Fiesta Bowl in 2003 (he tore just about every CL there is on his knee). And was able to come back to have a good career.

I would first like to see how he recovers before I make outlandish statements about trading RG3 and keeping Cousins and all the other non-sense you keep hearing.[/quote]


I do agree with your point, however, its not just RGIIIs frame - its his style of play. He has a slight frame (in the context of a football player), but he plays like he's the Hulk. He's far too fearless and doesnt have the awareness of his surroundings that Russell Wilson has.

I think wilsons size works to his advantage... he's so small, he's always had to be extremely careful with his body and how he moves, what hits he takes, how he goes down, how he reacts when contacted, etc. If he hadnt learned those skills years ago, he wouldnt have made it this far.

RGIII, on the other hand, has had the body type to be able to deal with the smaller, slower, less powerful defenders he's gone up against in college. This is the NFL. Defenders are smarter, faster, and stronger. RGIII cant "get away" with playing the way he played in college. And its not just a matter of this injury making him "learn his lesson." Its going to take him years to develop the "6th sense," instincts, and muscle memory hell need to have a safer (yet still lethal) game.

I also dont think the comparsions to McGahee and Rivers work. Rivers is a statue of a quarterback. McGahee is a pounder. he doesnt cut and isnt as shifty as RGIII, and never has been. Sure, RGIII can - and will - adjust his style of play, but then he wouldnt quite be the guy we traded for either.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=los panda;988895]it's all relative, it's not a sport to them.[/quote]

Judging by my behavior during a game it's not a sport to me either.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=mooby;988889]Why will it matter if Kirk Cousins is the future though?[/quote]

It wouldn't, Kirk leading this team in the future is my opinion based on certain variables that I have observed, that is all.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

if kirk cousins reigns supreme, i'll regret selling my #8 michigan state jersey. (was tj duckett, but no nameplate)

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;988903]I do agree with your point, however, its not just RGIIIs frame - its his style of play. He has a slight frame (in the context of a football player), but he plays like he's the Hulk. He's far too fearless and doesnt have the awareness of his surroundings that Russell Wilson has.

I think wilsons size works to his advantage... he's so small, he's always had to be extremely careful with his body and how he moves, what hits he takes, how he goes down, how he reacts when contacted, etc. If he hadnt learned those skills years ago, he wouldnt have made it this far.

RGIII, on the other hand, has had the body type to be able to deal with the smaller, slower, less powerful defenders he's gone up against in college. This is the NFL. Defenders are smarter, faster, and stronger. RGIII cant "get away" with playing the way he played in college. And its not just a matter of this injury making him "learn his lesson." Its going to take him years to develop the "6th sense," instincts, and muscle memory hell need to have a safer (yet still lethal) game.

I also dont think the comparsions to McGahee and Rivers work. Rivers is a statue of a quarterback. McGahee is a pounder. he doesnt cut and isnt as shifty as RGIII, and never has been. Sure, RGIII can - and will - adjust his style of play, but then he wouldnt quite be the guy we traded for either.[/quote]

I wouldn't say RG3 lacks awareness, I think he's fully aware of what he's doing, he just needs to dial back on being so aggressive and get the heck out of bounds.

McGahee suffered a really major injury in college, torn ACL, LCL, and PCL. I mean his knee was just toasted, for a RB to come back from that is pretty significant. A RB takes a lot more abuse than a QB.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Mattyk;988933]I wouldn't say RG3 lacks awareness, I think he's fully aware of what he's doing, he just needs to dial back on being so aggressive and get the heck out of bounds.

McGahee suffered a really major injury in college, torn ACL, LCL, and PCL. I mean his knee was just toasted, for a RB to come back from that is pretty significant. A RB takes a lot more abuse than a QB.[/quote]

McGahee came back from an injury that was 10x worst than the one RG3 came back from...

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92ifz2qqtm8[/url]

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=donofriose;988936]McGahee came back from an injury that was 10x worst than the one RG3 came back from...

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92ifz2qqtm8[/url][/quote]

:vomit:

Yikes. That's awful.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=donofriose;988936]McGahee came back from an injury that was 10x worst than the one RG3 came back from...

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92ifz2qqtm8[/url][/quote]

I remember watching that game and almost getting sick to my stomach, just horrible

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

I don't know which is worse Lattimore or Mcgahee.

Speaking of Lattimore, would you all be oppossed to spending a 4th round pick on him?

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Mattyk;988933]I wouldn't say RG3 lacks awareness, I think he's fully aware of what he's doing, he just needs to dial back on being so aggressive and get the heck out of bounds.

McGahee suffered a really major injury in college, torn ACL, LCL, and PCL. I mean his knee was just toasted, for a RB to come back from that is pretty significant. A RB takes a lot more abuse than a QB.[/quote]

Running backs take a lot of abuse, but I'm thinking specifically about the knees. McGhee is pretty much a north and south runner. Rg3 does a lot of side stepping, lateral movement,rolling one way and then darting back the other, quick shifts in direction... That's more taxing in the knees.

Additionally, mcgahees recovery was remarkable... Just like petersons. I think some set unreasonably high expectations for rg3s recovery. I prefer to take a more cautious, conservative approach. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;988952]I don't know which is worse Lattimore or Mcgahee.

Speaking of Lattimore, would you all be oppossed to spending a 4th round pick on him?[/quote]


Lattimore no doubt

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

Me too ;)

The guy will be out at least a year while he rehabs, but I can see Shanny taking a flyer on him.

Worst case scenario RG III sits out a year and comes back to having both Morris and Lattimore in the backfield. Apparently those two are friends, there was an article down here with quotes RG III had about thier friendship.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[YT]LT4kAKB2CT8[/YT]

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

Damn Matt that was bad

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

Lattimore? No I didn't like him when he was healthy, now that he has no knee I really don't like him.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;988955]Running backs take a lot of abuse, but I'm thinking specifically about the knees. McGhee is pretty much a north and south runner. Rg3 does a lot of side stepping, lateral movement,rolling one way and then darting back the other, quick shifts in direction... That's more taxing in the knees.

Additionally, mcgahees recovery was remarkable... Just like petersons. I think some set unreasonably high expectations for rg3s recovery. I prefer to take a more cautious, conservative approach. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.[/quote]

RBs spend about as much time blocking, which requires similar lateral movement. I'd say their knees, in general, take much more abuse than any QB, including a guy like RG3.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

MattyK - ouch, that was a gruesome video. If McCallum can run after that, it makes me optimistic that RG3 will come back stronger than ever..

[QUOTE]"[url=http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/18/sports/la-sp-crowe18-2010jan18]After grim NFL injury, Napoleon McCallum remained buoyant - Los Angeles Times[/url]

...He'd suffered a dislocated knee. Three ligaments had been torn, ripping his calf and hamstring muscles from the bone, and he'd suffered nerve and artery damage as well.

If surgery didn't go well, a terrified McCallum was told, his left leg probably would have to be amputated.

McCallum says he runs, cycles, swims and even plays basketball. Someday soon, he says, he hopes to try a half-triathlon.

...It's just part of the game," McCallum says. "It wasn't a vicious play. I was playing football, and sometimes you get hurt."[/QUOTE]

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Mattyk;988943]I remember watching that game and almost getting sick to my stomach, just horrible[/quote]

I made the mistake of getting into a one up contest with my coworkers who were talking about a college player for Georgia who recently had a terrible knee injury. Of course I had to respond with McGahee's injury and show a video to prove my point. After watching the video I became lightheaded. Lol, serves me right.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Mattyk;988959][YT]LT4kAKB2CT8[/YT][/quote]

I remember that clearly, I hate Ken Norton Jr. To this date. Can't stand that guy.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

That's just about the most horrible thing I've ever seen. Did he ever play again?

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=Mattyk;988959][YT]LT4kAKB2CT8[/YT][/quote]

That looked worse than Theismann's injury.....

[QUOTE=artmonkforhallofamein07;988952]I don't know which is worse Lattimore or Mcgahee.

Speaking of Lattimore, would you all be oppossed to spending a 4th round pick on him?[/QUOTE]

Yes based mainly on the fact that we have much greater needs than a rb.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

Lattimore prob will be great but i trust shanny with rbs.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;988952]I don't know which is worse Lattimore or Mcgahee.

Speaking of Lattimore, would you all be oppossed to spending a 4th round pick on him?[/quote]

I think either fans are going to be pleasantly surprised or extremely let down. For the season this year I said 8-8, the team exceeded my expectations so I'm happy with our out come. The RG3 injury I'm figuring 12 months, if he comes back prior to the season then he has exceeded my expectations.

But like you I think fans see a few guys make it back in 6 months and automatically believe RG3 WILL be back for the start of the season. I have a friend who says everytime some one says "up to a year"....."no, he WILL be back, he's an athlete and is in tip top shape, and because he's RG3." Then he brings up AP. I try to tell him as many AP cases that are out there there are cases of players NEVER being able to come back. And I get "no he WILL be back on time."

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

Bill Parcells had a good segment on the Read Option offense and he basically said it won't work long in the NFL because teams next year will focus on punishing the QB everytime it's ran. Jason Taylor basically said the same today on ESPN.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

Why is no one talking about Russell Wilson or Colin Kaepernick or Cam Newton when they discuss the read-option and guys getting hurt. Its always RGIII. I guess because he is the one that got hurt. Are not those guys in just as much danger?

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;989037]Bill Parcells had a good segment on the Read Option offense and he basically said it won't work long in [B]the NFL because teams next year will focus on punishing the QB everytime it's ran[/B]. Jason Taylor basically said the same today on ESPN.[/quote]

Parcells and Taylor are stupid
1) you cant punish a QB if you cant catch him when he runs
2) you cant punish a QB if he slides and/or runs out of bounds to avoid contact, unless you want a flag
3) I noticed Wilson and Kaepernick doing the same thing RGIII does - after handing the ball off to the RB, when defenders are near, they quickly lift their hands up to show defenders they dont have the ball - if theyre touched, its 15 yards.

Unless the rules change, anything defenses do to try to "punish" QBs running the option will result in first downs for the offense.

Re: RGIII undergoing total reconstructive surgery: out 6-8 months
 

Not even going to watch that video of the knee injury. Brings back memories. In other news, the London times had this writeup after the Skins loss.


[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/yIXoJ.jpg[/IMG]


You would have had to play Skyrim or know about the internet meme to get the title's reference.