[QUOTE=artmonkforhallofamein07;955237]Losing two of our best pass rushers in week two didn't help at all. We need more of them two. Hey at least now I hope the FO see the value in not teading a guy like Rak for some picks, unless said picks are used on more pass rushers which would seem rather redundant.[/QUOTE]

Every team has injuries though. Look at the Giants last year. Half their defense was hurt and they plugged other guys in and they didnt miss a beat. At some point you have to look at Haslett and his track record and stop making excuses.


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Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;955236]Yeah but if they don't have a bad day, they probably would not have been in that position at the end of the game. The offense had 3 turnovers, were 0-2 in the red zone and could only come up with 3 points off two turnover by the defense.

I think what the defense did at the end was terrible, but let's not forget those offensive miscues that would have made the game very different.[/quote]

Ruh I don't disagree with you on the fact that if we didn't have a Bunch of turnovers the game would have been different. I don't think the Giants would have had a chance to compete with us without all the TOs.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;955237]Losing two of our best pass rushers in week two didn't help at all. We need more of them two. Hey at least now I hope the FO see the value in not teading a guy like Rak for some picks, unless said picks are used on more pass rushers which would seem rather redundant.[/quote]

You can build super bowl teams around two good to great pass rushers. Ever since Orakpo went down Kerrigan has not been relevant except for the interception, but he is not primarily there to cover anyway. If Orakpo comes back healthy we need him, still we obviously need depth on this team. Our Defense is lacking in depth and it is showing in our secondary, our d-line and our linebackers, or in every single phase.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;955202]Really... Comparing this years team to last years... Go back and watch game two in giants stadium last year. If their WRs would have caught the ball we would have been pummeled.[/quote]

...but Eli was bad today until there were about 7 minutes to go in the game.
Either way, the Giants' offense hasn't clicked the last three times we've played em. Have no idea why...

[QUOTE=donofriose;955247]You can build super bowl teams around two good to great pass rushers. Ever since Orakpo went down Kerrigan has not been relevant except for the interception, but he is not primarily there to cover anyway. If Orakpo comes back healthy we need him, still we obviously need depth on this team. Our Defense is lacking in depth and it is showing in our secondary, our d-line and our linebackers, or in every single phase.[/QUOTE]

True, but i wouldn't call Orakpo and Kerrigan great pass rushers.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=The Goat;955253]...but Eli was bad today until there were about 7 minutes to go in the game.
Either way, the Giants' offense hasn't clicked the last three times we've played em. Have no idea why...[/quote]

Couldn't be [I]anything[/I] we were doing. <sarcasm font off>

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=redskins5044;955254]True, but i wouldn't call Orakpo and Kerrigan great pass rushers.[/quote]

Eh I said good to great, they are in between the two.

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;955258]Couldn't be [I]anything[/I] we were doing. <sarcasm font off>[/QUOTE]

It is strange though how we tend to make mediocre players and offenses look like hall of famers and than seem to (for the most part) contain the giants over the last three meetings.


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Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

Hey guys --- good night. Going to hang with the wife for a bit before bed. Honestly I think we are just saying the same things over and over in different ways. Nice talking to everyone see you around the board this week.

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;955258]Couldn't be [I]anything[/I] we were doing. <sarcasm font off>[/QUOTE]

I think we did and do a good job of capitalizing on Eli's back foot throwing tendency the last couple of years by making him throw a lot of those lateral passes he can't seem to hit instead of the vertical ones he seems to hit every time. In theory, the game winning throw shouldn't have even been a completeable ball. Cruz just won that too decisively.

[QUOTE=artmonkforhallofamein07;955261]Hey guys --- good night. Going to hang with the wife for a bit before bed. Honestly I think we are just saying the same things over and over in different ways. Nice talking to everyone see you around the board this week.[/QUOTE]

Yeah man. You too.


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The reason the redskins can't ever cover slot receivers is because they've always refused to admit they have an issue with it.

If Cooley passes a physical he is back.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

Garcon is now out with tear in his foot. Man, it's like his foot is degrading over time. 2-3 weeks

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;955265]The reason the redskins can't ever cover slot receivers is because they've always refused to admit they have an issue with it.[/quote]

Well stated -- what is more sickening is that it's not as though the Giants had a lot of options, they had to get down the field an Nicks was playing at 70-80%, Bradshaw had been pretty much bottled up all game (43 yards on 12 carries) so they had to go to Cruz...AND HE STILL GOT BEHIND THE COVERAGE!?!

It's refreshing to have a quarterback who gives you a chance every game. What's depressing is having no faith in your defense to make a stop when it really matters.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;955258]Couldn't be [I]anything[/I] we were doing. <sarcasm font off>[/quote]

You can't react to sarcasm with sarcasm man...that's just awkward lol.

[QUOTE=Bucket;955269]Garcon is now out with tear in his foot. Man, it's like his foot is degrading over time. 2-3 weeks[/QUOTE]

You don't think he tore it vs New Orleans?

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=rbanerjee23;955270]Well stated -- what is more sickening is that it's not as though the Giants had a lot of options, they had to get down the field an Nicks was playing at 70-80%, Bradshaw had been pretty much bottled up all game (43 yards on 12 carries) so they had to go to Cruz...AND HE STILL GOT BEHIND THE COVERAGE!?!

It's refreshing to have a quarterback who gives you a chance every game. What's depressing is having no faith in your defense to make a stop when it really matters.[/quote]

Well RG3 and the offense had to play heroics at the end of the game because of their earlier miscues.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=Bucket;955269]Garcon is now out with tear in his foot. Man, it's like his foot is degrading over time. 2-3 weeks[/quote]

Garcon should be our 3rd option anyway, and I'm not convinced there's any difference between his skill level and Josh Morgan's

i.e.

Moss (in the slot but first option), Hankerson, Garcon is probably equal to Moss, Hankerson, Morgan.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;955272]You don't think he tore it vs New Orleans?[/quote]

Maybe, but man.. That would add a bit of speculation to the "training staff hater posse"

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=The Goat;955220]No, you fire Kyle two years ago, one year ago, and today because he can't put a whole game-plan together and there are multiple examples in every game where the defense reads the play before the ball is snapped. The most important three today were all option reads btw, but even further down the line they're still important "misses." While I don't like Mike as a personnel guy, and I think he needs to rediscover his offensive genius, I'll take Mike running the offense completely over Kyle's game-day performances.

The calls for Hazlett's head are justified too IMO. Tell you what, Mike letting his kid, and the NFL, know Kyle's holding this offense back, and then booting the defensive coordinator because he's holding the defense back, could look desperate and I'm sure ESPN would try to spin it that way, but it would really show Mike is serious about finding a winning combo. We have the talent, get the "brains" on game-day sorted out and let's win a few against the good teams!![/quote]

There was absolutely NOTHING wrong with the play calling today minus one series. You just have this illogical hate towards the Shanahan's and it shows.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=The Goat;955275]Garcon should be our 3rd option anyway, and I'm not convinced there's any difference between his skill level and Josh Morgan's

i.e.

Moss (in the slot but first option), Hankerson, Garcon is probably equal to Moss, Hankerson, Morgan.[/quote]

Don't forget Robinson and I guess Briscoe's ass is about glued to the bench now.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;955277]There was absolutely NOTHING wrong with the play calling today minus one series. You just have this illogical hate towards the Shanahan's and it shows.[/quote]

I think people are equating RG3's/Morris' mistakes/turnovers to problems with the playcall? My only beef with the play calling is the inability of getting in the endzone during the first drive and that stupid option to Paul.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;955278]Don't forget Robinson and I guess Briscoe's ass is about glued to the bench now.[/quote]

True but this offense doesn't ever need more than three WRs playing out there.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=Gtothearry;955053]I love how one week the Skins are great if they win and the next week they're awful if they lose. The Skins lost a game they easily could've won against a team who just beat down a 49ers team regarded as the best in the NFL.

Griffin is no Cam Newton. The kid is a fantastic person who cares about winning and isn't a egotistical child.

It's not doom and gloom people. We should be very excited about the future.[/quote]

The Skins don't win games like this one today, they haven't in years, they find a way to lose these games. The Giants find ways to win these games, as most good teams do. They likely would have lost the Viking game if not for Griffin's spectacular run. Count the Tampa game as mostly a Griffin win as well.

It's time for brutal honesty, Shanahan's coaching record over the last 5 years is 29-41. Here he is 14-25. No way he is coaching any NFL team if not for the early Bronco years with John Elway. Any equity he had built up is gone now. I say that as a fan ecstatic when he was hired and even happier to have Kyle onboard as I thought he would follow as HC.

The defense and special teams are worse than when he arrived, and the entire offense is predicated on misdirection with Griffin's superior ability. It is unsustainable. For every good move they've made, I can point to 2 bad ones, probably 3.

RG could be a superstar, they have a handful of solid pieces to work around, and there is legitimate hope for the future. But in my opinion, Shanahan isn't going to take this team to the next step, and there is no logical reason for any fan to think so other than blind faith and desperate hope.

I'm predicting Haslett won't finish the season, and 5-6 wins means complete change which I am now all for. 7 or more wins will and should keep Mike here, I agree.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

We should have hung 40 on these guys today. I'm not excusing the blown coverage on the Cruz TD but it shouldn't have come down to that. 3 fumbles was just horrible.

[QUOTE=NC_Skins;955277]There was absolutely NOTHING wrong with the play calling today minus one series. You just have this illogical hate towards the Shanahan's and it shows.[/QUOTE]

Dont even want to go here but if you base your feelings on wins / losses than its actually the love thats illogical.


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Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;955294]We should have hung 40 on these guys today. I'm not excusing the blown coverage on the Cruz TD but it shouldn't have come down to that. 3 fumbles was just horrible.[/quote]

And a pick.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;955282]I think people are equating RG3's/Morris' mistakes/turnovers to problems with the playcall? My only beef with the play calling is the inability of getting in the endzone during the first drive and that stupid option to Paul.[/quote]

Yeah, I had a huge issue with that stupid ass option play with Paul. That play hasn't worked before and didn't work today, and likely will not work ever in the future. I've seen the Panthers try the same shit with Cam only to get it stuffed as well.

[QUOTE=jdc65;955290]The Skins don't win games like this one today, they haven't in years, they find a way to lose these games. The Giants find ways to win these games, as most good teams do. They likely would have lost the Viking game if not for Griffin's spectacular run. Count the Tampa game as mostly a Griffin win as well.

It's time for brutal honesty, Shanahan's coaching record over the last 5 years is 29-41. Here he is 14-25. No way he is coaching any NFL team if not for the early Bronco years with John Elway. Any equity he had built up is gone now. I say that as a fan ecstatic when he was hired and even happier to have Kyle onboard as I thought he would follow as HC.

The defense and special teams are worse than when he arrived, and the entire offense is predicated on misdirection with Griffin's superior ability. It is unsustainable. For every good move they've made, I can point to 2 bad ones, probably 3.

RG could be a superstar, they have a handful of solid pieces to work around, and there is legitimate hope for the future. But in my opinion, Shanahan isn't going to take this team to the next step, and there is no logical reason for any fan to think so other than blind faith and desperate hope.

I'm predicting Haslett won't finish the season, and 5-6 wins means complete change which I am now all for. 7 or more wins will and should keep Mike here, I agree.[/QUOTE]

Rite on man. Just hope RG-3 and morris and the few others can carry this team a long way - cus i personally dont care why we win - just that we win.


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Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;955277]There was absolutely NOTHING wrong with the play calling today minus one series. You just have this illogical hate towards the Shanahan's and it shows.[/quote]

No, I think Mike needs to takeover play-calling because errors there are costing us significantly. If/when you watch the replay you'll count multiple plays spread throughout the game in which the defense read it perfectly before the ball was snapped. The most obvious ones we're the option to Paul, the option where RG3 lost the ball, and the option that was nearly broken up. The other instances don't have the same trending pattern. Here and there on an obvious blitz from the defense and Kyle hasn't given RG3 a quick slant option to burn the blitz.

And then you get into how poorly we spread the field through the air. I swear, our run game is creating bigger space/holes than the air attack.

Where I was wrong, up to the Falcons game, was thinking we have a pedestrian WR corp. We have a pretty good corp IMO. Moss is stellar this season. Hankerson shows some impressive skill improvement every game. He's learning to create space a little like Moss, and his bigger frame helps him out. Garcon and Morgan, while neither guy is consistent enough, can be swapped out for whoever is on their game. Add Fred Davis and you have a pretty awesome group of pass-catchers. We won't be quite at lethal with Cooley and Paulsen splitting time, but it is most definitely a group that should be able to consistently move the ball AND score.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=Mattyk;955294]We should have hung 40 on these guys today. I'm not excusing the blown coverage on the Cruz TD but it shouldn't have come down to that. 3 fumbles was just horrible.[/quote]

players usually play the way they practice. multiple fumbles by different players makes me wonder what the redskins did to practice ball security this week - especially if there is limited contact at their practices.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=imaskin4life;955304]players usually play the way they practice. multiple fumbles by different players makes me wonder what the redskins did to practice ball security this week - especially if there is limited contact at their practices.[/quote]

Seemed more like a fluke day than anything. Fumbles weren't a problem coming into today. Hopefully they shake it off and get on track.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=punch it in;955296]Dont even want to go here but if you base your feelings on wins / losses than its actually the love thats illogical.


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He screwed up on the trying to "win now" in year 1. Even so, why would anyone expect the roster we had to be completely turned over and winning SB's in 3 years. When he was hired, I told myself that in year 3 is where we should start to see a turn around. Year 4 is when we are a playoff team. And so far, year 3, and that turnaround is looking like its happening. Get a secondary, and we are already a playoff team, so we are on course with what I expected.

I think the problem is that when you expect to take a horrible team with massive cap problems and expect 3 SB victories in the first 4 years. You are setting up yourself for disappointment.

I think everyone assumes that building a team in Madden franchise mode is the same as building a team in the NFL, so once they win a SB in Madden, they think they could pull off 3 SB's in 4 years in the NFL as a GM. And here in lies the biggest problem IMO.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=jdc65;955290]The Skins don't win games like this one today, they haven't in years, they find a way to lose these games. The Giants find ways to win these games, as most good teams do. They likely would have lost the Viking game if not for Griffin's spectacular run. Count the Tampa game as mostly a Griffin win as well.[/quote]

But the Redskins just won a game like this last week. And the Giants likely would have lost if not for Cruz' TD today. So what's your point?

I[QUOTE=Mattyk;955306]Seemed more like a fluke day than anything. Fumbles weren't a problem coming into today. Hopefully they shake it off and get on track.[/QUOTE]

Id have to agree with this. Very un - characteristic. We matched our season total today. Ugggh. They were all friggin unforced to. This wasnt osi comin around rex's blind side and swatting the ball away. These were just lack of focus.
Edit: most of them coming late in the game and its almost like the players were thinking the sane thing we were. Holy shit were really good and were gonna make a huge statement and the pressure got to em. I would think they will learn from that. So much of the game is mentally being able to accept that you belong on the damn field with whoever you are playing. That it is ok to win even if that goes against what people have come to expect when they are playing us.


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[QUOTE=Skinzman;955307]He screwed up on the trying to "win now" in year 1. Even so, why would anyone expect the roster we had to be completely turned over and winning SB's in 3 years. When he was hired, I told myself that in year 3 is where we should start to see a turn around. Year 4 is when we are a playoff team. And so far, year 3, and that turnaround is looking like its happening. Get a secondary, and we are already a playoff team, so we are on course with what I expected.

I think the problem is that when you expect to take a horrible team with massive cap problems and expect 3 SB victories in the first 4 years. You are setting up yourself for disappointment.

I think everyone assumes that building a team in Madden franchise mode is the same as building a team in the NFL, so once they win a SB in Madden, they think they could pull off 3 SB's in 4 years in the NFL as a GM. And here in lies the biggest problem IMO.[/QUOTE]

Lol. I dont play Madden but im pretty sure that video games have nothing to do with any problems with the Redskins.


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Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=punch it in;955313]Lol. I dont play Madden but im pretty sure that video games have nothing to do with any problems with the Redskins.


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The game doesnt have anything to do with any problems of the Skins. It has to do with fans thinking they can take a perennial doormat and have them winning SB's in a year or two so why cant an NFL GM.

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[url=http://washingtonexaminer.com/giants-27-redskins-23-ten-observations/article/2511372#.UITAeoZnF8F]Giants 27, Redskins 23: Ten Observations | WashingtonExaminer.com[/url]


Good read.


[quote]Let’s go right to the 77-yard touchdown pass. The knee-jerk reaction, clearly, is to blame defensive coordinator Jim Haslett. If you want to knock his schemes and the lack of pressure, go right ahead. If you want to question adjustments, go ahead. But it’s awfully difficult to blame him for the coverage mishap on this play. In fact, it’s misguided. A coordinator puts defenders in position and then it’s up to a player to do the rest. He assigned two players to stop the most dangerous target on the other team. Not a bad idea. In this case, corner Josh Wilson and safety Madieu Williams failed to execute a double team. Actually, Williams deserves more of the blame. It’s clear based on Wilson’s alignment at the snap he’s expecting – and needs – safety help over the top. Wilson is shaded inside and never looks at the quarterback. Williams, though, perhaps because of a receiver to the outside, was flat-footed. Here’s the thing: based on how Wilson was aligned, it’s easy to deduce there should have been no hesitation.


On this play, it’s an easy read for the receiver. With Wilson inside and Williams shaded to the outside, Victor Cruz runs a straight go-route. As Wilson said, Cruz hadn’t done much of anything before this catch – six catches for 54 yards. It wasn’t just Wilson covering him; Wilson would shadow him for a series but other times Wilson would show up and then drop into deep middle in a cover-3 look. But back to Haslett. Obviously the defense hasn’t produced enough under Haslett. They allow too many big plays. However, this one falls on the players, Williams in particular. If you don’t like Williams starting, that’s another matter. The Redskins did not have the best plan at safety, hoping Tanard Jackson – who had multiple drug suspensions before he signed – would be their starter. But Williams is the guy; the alternatives are few. Williams is a steady guy, but lacks speed. That’s been evident in other games and it impacts the coverage. I just don’t think the corners trust the safeties all that much right now to be where they need to be and at the right time.[/quote]

Re: Skins/Giants post game thread
 

[quote=redskins5044;955132]Yep fire all the coaches, sounds like a plan. Lets just pretend this year #1 with Shanahan, he's not going anywhere after the season. We have a rookie QB, building from the ground up starting from this year not 2 years ago.[/quote]

The question isn't just starting over again or not? The real question is can the current regime take this team to the next level? In my opinion, there is no rational reason to expect this team to significantly improve over the next few years with the current leadership. They are not building from the ground up, or shouldn't be. They have had 3 offseasons to build with no noticeable sign of improvement anywhere with the exception of Griffin's remarkable ability.

There are plenty of quality coaches in waiting who can work with Griffin and develope his game. Change should come sooner than later, and cutting your losses early is always the best path to take. It's not happening with Shanahan, it just isn't. Players have lost confidence whether they admit it or not in my honest opinion.