Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;538394]Zorn has a year left to prove himself, I don't think he's going to want to risk it by teaching another QB his system all over again. And you overlook the fact that Cutler's 2nd year was under the same offense and coach.[/quote]

Campbell is like a large Millstone around Zorns neck. Zorns best change to extend his head coaching career beyond 2009 is to get a quarterback capeable of growing and improving in his system. If Zorn sticks with campbell all year, its almost 100% garaunteed that BOTH will be gone next year.

[quote=GTripp0012;538459]I agree that he won't be one of the top 3 or 4 in the league ever, but he can be everything that Cutler is and will be if we put the right team around him.[/quote]

which is easier - to invest everything you have and rework your entire offense to help make one mediocre quarterback look good.... or just go get yourself a good quarterback who can make everyone around him look better?

As far as Cutler wanting more money... he will, but not now. We wouldnt have to worry about extending him until next year if we brought him here.

That said, i dont really think we'd land Cutler, even if we were really going after him.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;538545]I'm not going to say that JC has no talent, I believe he does. However, I find it funny that when D. Hall and Haynesworth were signed, people were going off about character issues left and right about these guys despite their talents (even though IMO these "character issues" were blown out of proportion). Yet when it comes to this whole notion of bringing in Cutler, people are willing to throw character out the window for a player that may have slightly more talent Jason Campbell.[/quote]

Cutler never stomped on a anyones face to the point where the guy needed stitches. Cutler never kicked anyone from his own team. Cutler never got in a fight w/ a his own teammate and brought back a pole to smash the guy's head in. Cutler doesn't get arrested for a road rage incident. As far as I know Cutler doesn't get into screaming matches w/ coaches on the sidelines. Need I go on? Cutler may be acting like a baby but he doesn't do the shit Haynesworth and Hall does.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;538545]I'm not going to say that JC has no talent, I believe he does. However, I find it funny that when D. Hall and Haynesworth were signed, people were going off about character issues left and right about these guys despite their talents (even though IMO these "character issues" were blown out of proportion). Yet when it comes to this whole notion of bringing in Cutler, people are willing to throw character out the window for [B]a player that may have slightly more talent Jason Campbell.[/B][/quote]

Where is he more talented? That's my only question. His stats were the same as JC's with a better O-line. All we are getting is a latteral move. His passing yardage was the same, his completions were the same, his interceptions were higher then JC's.

I totally agree with the whole character issue thing. I'm so tired of people picking and choosing who they want to argue about character issues. Either you hire angels only or you learn to allow some issues to pass simply for having talent on the team. Everyone has their issues some greater then others.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;538436]So let me get this straight, you people want to...[/quote]
Not sure youre responding to alot of people, seems like just me, lol.

[quote=Ruhskins;538436]- Trade away our #13th pick for another player (after everyone bitches and whines about the FO trading away picks and not "building through the draft"), because I'm sure we'd be losing this pick in some sort of trade.[/quote]
Quarterbacks of Cutlers pedigree almost never make it to free agency. Cutler was drafted with the 12th overall pick in 2006. Cutler is worth two-first rounders, minimum. Trading the 13th overall pick and Campbell and a mediocre player like Horton (hypothetically) for Cutler would be the bargain of the centurey. Quarterback is one position where is universally agreed that you break the "rules" for - if you need a QB and theres a young pro-bowl quarterback out there, you go get him.

[quote=Ruhskins;538436]- Trade for a player who has caused a PR nightmare for his team and probably the reason why it is not seen as a big deal is b/c he's a QB (if he were a receiver, he'd be compared to TO).[/quote]
Eli Manning caused a "PR nightmare" for the Chargers and everyones forgotten about that now. QBs are a different type of player in the NFL. Cutler feels screwed over by some 32year old arrogant coach and he demanded a trade. That doesnt even begin to compare with the Crap TO has done. TO has been a lockerroom cancer on every team he's ever been on. Cutler is loved by his teammates - the beef in Denver is between Cutler and management - nothing else.

[quote=Ruhskins;538436]- Disrupt the continuity of having our current QB with the same coach and offense, something that hasn't happened in a while (don't tell me the Gibbs and Saunders had the same system).[/quote] Even if you foolishly think Gibbs and Saunders systems were incredibly dissimilar, the fact remains Jason Campell had two full years in Saunders system-one that suited his talents. JC failed in that system after two years. Why does everyone forget that fact?

[quote=Ruhskins;538436]- Completely disregard JCs performance during the first 8 games when he had a working line and a healthy CP..[/quote] JC had a far superior line and better running back situation in Saunders system for two years... youre forgetting about THAT.

[quote=Ruhskins;538436]- Officially putting Zorn on a short leash, since bringing Cutler here would give us the whole "when is Shanahan getting hired" talk all season.[/quote] What has Zorn done to prove he shouldnt be on a short leash? This isnt the 80s and 90s where teams give quarterbacks and coaches a minimum of 3 years to get going. Teams all around the league are having success with new coaches and quarterbacks in one season. Of all the rookie head coaches last year, Zorn was the worst. Every year, teams like the Ravens, Dolhphins, and Falcons, show a new QB and coach can turn a team around. Yet here everyone feels Campbell somehow deserves all this patience - Campbells last chance should have been in 2007. We foolishly gave him another year last year. Zorn needs to take this team to the playoffs this year or he SHOULD be demoted or fired.

[quote=Ruhskins;538436]Once again, I don't know why continuity for more than one or two seasons is undervalued. The only way we should bring someone like Cutler would be if the team decided to completely blow up the team, which that hasn't happened.[/quote]

Why do people keep speaking of continuity as if its some inherantly good thing? Continuity is not good for continuitys sake, just like Change isnt good just for the sake of change. Continuity is only a good thing if what is being continued is also good. Campbell has overextended his stay in Washington. I'm not saying Jay Cutler is the one and only answer to us - but he would be a dramatic improvement over Campbell and he's someone who Zorn could take to greater heights than Campbell could ever dream of. That said, Zorns going to have to pull off a miracle to be the coach of this team in 2010.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=SBXVII;538552]Where is he more talented? That's my only question. His stats were the same as JC's with a better O-line. [/quote]

You think Denvers o-line is better than ours? Maybe 5 years ago, but they sure as heck havent been dominant lately. Campbell has had far more tools surrounding him to help him succeed than Cutler ever has. Our O-line was one of the top 5-8 in the NFL when gibbs was here. It regressed alot in the latter part of last year (due to mostly to injury) but it was still one of the top 15 in the league. People trash our line, but its not that bad... its just not nearly as good as it used to be.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538549][B]Campbell is like a large Millstone around Zorns neck. Zorns best change to extend his head coaching career beyond 2009 is to get a quarterback capeable of growing and improving in his system. If Zorn sticks with campbell all year, its almost 100% garaunteed that BOTH will be gone next year[/B].



which is easier - to invest everything you have and rework your entire offense to help make one mediocre quarterback look good.... or just go get yourself a good quarterback who can make everyone around him look better?

As far as Cutler wanting more money... he will, but not now. We wouldnt have to worry about extending him until next year if we brought him here.

That said, i dont really think we'd land Cutler, even if we were really going after him.[/quote]

Would you have made the same argument about Hasselback when he was benched by Zorn? or, if you were a Seattle fan, would you have been happy when they went to the SB with Hasselback.

Something else about this: if Zorn wanted Campbell gone, I guarantee he would be gone. Why, 1) because his career is on the line, 2) his reputation is on the line, 3) Danny seems really to listen to his coaches (some may disagree, but I think he always has), and 4) I don't believe salary cap wise its impossible like CP or JJ. So you can't say JC is a millstone, it is more so the girl he has brought to the party.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Post on RI:

Well here’s the latest rumor on this Cutler saga so take it for what it’s worth. According to the Bleacher report, yes I know… risky, it’s a three-way trade with Cutler, Scheffler and a Browns 3rd round pick going to Washington, Chris Cooley, Jason Campbell and a Denver 5th rounder to Cleveland and Brady Quinn and Washington S LaRon Landry going to Denver

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=mredskins;538564]Post on RI:

Well here’s the latest rumor on this Cutler saga so take it for what it’s worth. According to the Bleacher report, yes I know… risky, it’s a three-way trade with Cutler, Scheffler and a Browns 3rd round pick going to Washington, Chris Cooley, Jason Campbell and a Denver 5th rounder to Cleveland and Brady Quinn and Washington S LaRon Landry going to Denver[/quote]
That's the article that started all this nonsense.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Here's something a little more reliable:

The Jay Cutler Speculation: We continue to hear nothing tangible about this "trade" whatsoever. Vinny Cerrato has denied it up and down, not just to the media but to football people around the league. He's also denied it to agents for some Redskins players, according to league sources, some of whom could be potentially directly affected by the alleged swap(s). It's one thing to be less that truthful with the media and fans, and quite another to do so with people you hope to maintain an ongoing business relationship with.

Make no mistake, there was some chatter going around the league earlier this week, unsubstantiated talk and not backed up by fact (the kind of gosspi that is a part of any business/corporation/league), that the Skins had a thing for the Denver QB. But it's quite another to report the inner workings of alleged three-way blockbuster deals as if they are potentially imminent. And, again, fitting a guy like Cutler under the cap, and absorbing massive cap hits from dealing guys like Chris Cooley, at a time when you only have the space to offer vet minimum deals for potential starters, is still something that seems impossible and render such deals as nonstarters.

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/2009/03/weekly_round-up_obligatory_cut.html]Weekly Round-Up: Obligatory Cutler Stuff, Free Agent Wrap, Etc. - Redskins Insider[/url]

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

^ NO makes to much sense! I won't beleive it.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=mredskins;538564]Post on RI:

Well here’s the latest rumor on this Cutler saga so take it for what it’s worth. According to the Bleacher report, yes I know… risky, it’s a three-way trade with Cutler, Scheffler and a Browns 3rd round pick going to Washington, Chris Cooley, Jason Campbell and a Denver 5th rounder to Cleveland and Brady Quinn and Washington S LaRon Landry going to Denver[/quote]

So we'd lose CC, JC, LL for Cutler, Scheffler, and a 3rd.

You just don't give up a talented young safety, a PB TE, and a solid QB for much less. It's all speculation anyway. I hope.

I wouldn't want this to happen, but i do happen to think the Jay Cutler is really good. Really good.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538549]which is easier - to invest everything you have and rework your entire offense to help make one mediocre quarterback look good.... or just go get yourself a good quarterback who can make everyone around him look better?

As far as Cutler wanting more money... he will, but not now. We wouldnt have to worry about extending him until next year if we brought him here.

That said, i dont really think we'd land Cutler, even if we were really going after him.[/quote]Okay, you've missed the point above. This isn't mediocre Jason Campbell vs. superior/all-mighty Jay Cutler. This is two players with the same exact skill set and career background, except one has a tendency to go downfield more often (higher YPA) and more efficiently, and is also far more prone to the big mistake (much higher INT rate) than the other.

And if you're asking which player fits better in Zorn's philosophy to micromanage the entire game, it's no question that Jason Campbell fits better.

But here's the really offensive thing: we have the undervalued player, and they have the overvalued player. So if there's anything serious about the trade talks, we've already committed an error. Well, the other offensive thing is that you think that Jay Cutler can be magically successful here if we don't rework the offensive line. Uh, no, no he cannot. Cutler is a young guy long on potential (like Campbell), but neither of them has ever posted a QB rating above 90. If you honestly think that coming here is going to put him over the hump into the elite "holier than Campbell" category, then you are very, very mistaken.

There's no question that Cutler will change the dynamic of our passing game. He just likely wouldn't make it any better.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

None of this is because Jay Cutler isn't a good quarterback. He is. The Denver offense around him isn't exactly the most impressive passing offense we've ever seen.

But the Redskins are a team with a weak OL and no go-to receiver. The QB and Running game is pretty much all this team has.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=redsk1;538591]So we'd lose CC, JC, LL for Cutler, Scheffler, and a 3rd.

You just don't give up a talented young safety, a PB TE, and a solid QB for much less. It's all speculation anyway. I hope.

I wouldn't want this to happen, but i do happen to think the Jay Cutler is really good. Really good.[/quote]

actually, the Browns dont have a thirds, so we'd lose all that for just Cutler and Shaffer... and theres no way the salary cap would allow that trade... which is why i stopped going to the bleacherreport... they made up crap and speculated to get hits on their website.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

BHA,

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CampJa00.htm]Jason Campbell Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

[url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CutlJa00.htm]Jay Cutler Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

I'm not making this up when I say they look very, very similar statistically. You can see for yourself. You just have to stop looking at it from the ABC (anyone but Campbell) mentality to see that Cutler is not a significant upgrade, and that we need to fix the problems around the quarterback to get pro-bowl type production.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Any good QB needs a good cast to be successful. If you took Brady or Manning and put them on the Bengals, they would struggle. Hell just look at Carson Palmer and the nosedive he's taken there. As the team has fallen apart so has his game.

I don't know why some think you can just plug a new QB in the same situation and expect drastically different results.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538596]Okay, you've missed the point above. This isn't mediocre Jason Campbell vs. superior/all-mighty Jay Cutler. This is two players with the same exact skill set and career background, except one has a tendency to go downfield more often (higher YPA) and more efficiently, and is also far more prone to the big mistake (much higher INT rate) than the other.

And if you're asking which player fits better in Zorn's philosophy to micromanage the entire game, it's no question that Jason Campbell fits better.[/quote]

How can you claim (with a straight face) that Campbell fits Zorns offense better? I cant think of many worse mis-matches in football today. Campbells improvement (primarily fewer fumbles and INTs) is nothing more than a testament to Zorns teaching ability combined with Campbell being too scared to make a mistake. Cutler is by far a better QB for Zorns system and I have no doubt Cutler would cut his INTs in half and fumble less here. Cutler also had far fewer offensive weapons and a weaker offensive line and running back than Campbell has been blessed with.

Campbell has been given more tools to succeed than most young quarterbacks and he continues to fall short.

[quote=]But here's the really offensive thing: we have the undervalued player, and they have the overvalued player. So if there's anything serious about the trade talks, we've already committed an error. Well, the other offensive thing is that you think that Jay Cutler can be magically successful here if we don't rework the offensive line. Uh, no, no he cannot. Cutler is a young guy long on potential (like Campbell), but neither of them has ever posted a QB rating above 90. If you honestly think that coming here is going to put him over the hump into the elite "holier than Campbell" category, then you are very, very mistaken.

There's no question that Cutler will change the dynamic of our passing game. He just likely wouldn't make it any better.[/quote]

I dont think Campbell is undervalued or Cutler is overvalued at all. Campbell is nothing more than a mediocre quarterback. He's average. Cutler has been extremely impressive on a team with a horrible defense, weak offensive line, weak running game, although with better receivers than what Campbell had in washington. If Campbell had been behind denvers line and with their defense last year, theres no question he'd have been cut or traded already. The Campbell/Zorn marriage is never going to be successful. So far, chosing Zorn to be OC and later HC while keeping Campbell, is by far the worst thing Cerrato and Snyder have done in recent memory.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;538605]Any good QB needs a good cast to be successful. If you took Brady or Manning and put them on the Bengals, they would struggle. Hell just look at Carson Palmer and the nosedive he's taken there. As the team has fallen apart so has his game.

I don't know why some think you can just plug a new QB in the same situation and expect drastically different results.[/quote]

I do know if Campbell made decisions as fast and released the ball as fast as Cutler, we'd have won more games last year. Campbell holds on to the ball far too long. Our offensive line declined last year but it was still above average. Campbell simply takes too long to make decisions and holds on to the ball too long. He's had the same problem in every system he's ever been in. Its unreasonable to think he's going to change all of a sudden. I

ts going to take YEARS to rebuild our offensive line so that its dramatically better than the one we had last year. So what do we do? keep a slow quarterback 3-4 years and hope when our lines better he can finally be a franchise QB? Or simply find a guy know who can make quicker decisions to compensate for your line?

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Well by year's end we'll know if JC is the real deal or not. Until then this debate is kinda silly considering the chance of Cutler coming here is pretty much zero.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538606]How can you claim (with a straight face) that Campbell fits Zorns offense better? I cant think of many worse mis-matches in football today. Campbells improvement (primarily fewer fumbles and INTs) is nothing more than a testament to Zorns teaching ability combined with Campbell being too scared to make a mistake. Cutler is by far a better QB for Zorns system and I have no doubt Cutler would cut his INTs in half and fumble less here. Cutler also had far fewer offensive weapons and a weaker offensive line and running back than Campbell has been blessed with.
[B]
Campbell has been given more tools to succeed than most young quarterbacks and he continues to fall short.
[/B]


I dont think Campbell is undervalued or Cutler is overvalued at all. Campbell is nothing more than a mediocre quarterback. He's average. Cutler has been extremely impressive on a team with a horrible defense, weak offensive line, weak running game, although with better receivers than what Campbell had in washington. If Campbell had been behind denvers line and with their defense last year, theres no question he'd have been cut or traded already. The Campbell/Zorn marriage is never going to be successful. So far, chosing Zorn to be OC and later HC while keeping Campbell, is by far the worst thing Cerrato and Snyder have done in recent memory.[/quote]I don't like the term "average" because too often, it is used to make an above average player seem worse than he really is. I don't know what you define as average, BHA, and it's very possible that Campbell is only average. But, then you see Cutler as better than average. But they are very similar players. So, you're putting one guy down (who happens to be the QB of your favorite team), to the point where you are clearly undervaluing his skill set in order to try to make a point.

Here's the thing: according to Football Outsiders, in 2008, the average performance from a quarterback was Dan Orlovsky/Trent Edwards

[URL="http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb"]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008[/URL]

In their stats, an average performance always seems to be weighed down by the very worst players of the year, so average always comes out between the 20-25th best player at the position. This is only one way to define average, but I do not reject their assumption that there are more above average QBs in this league that start than below average QBs.

As you can see, Cutler was clearly more effective in Denver's offense last year than Campbell was in the Redskins. I am not disputing this. I'm disputing two things:

1) Why you think that Zorn's conservative, fundamentals-heavy style will mesh better with Cutler's caution-to-the-wind playing style than Campbell's.

and

2) When you replace Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal with Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El, and replace the Denver OL with the Washington OL, how you don't account for a significant drop in Cutler's output.

Obviously, if we don't improve on offense, Cutler isn't going to be as good here as he was in Denver. If we DO improve, he probably would be. And obviously, Campbell will be much better as well.

[quote][B]
Campbell has been given more tools to succeed than most young quarterbacks and he continues to fall short.
[/B] [/quote]What he's been given is a bunch of different terminology, and short, underwhelming receivers, and an aging OL. That's a lot of tools, but I would argue that save for an expansion team, that's pretty much as tough a situation as it gets for a young QB.

I kept a straight face though most of your points, but that one there was a little over the top, wouldn't you say?

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

And before you inevitably chide Campbell for the mythical "locking onto WRs" criticism:

Brandon Marshall led the NFL in targets last year.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538614]I don't like the term "average" because too often, it is used to make an above average player seem worse than he really is. I don't know what you define as average, BHA, and it's very possible that Campbell is only average. But, then you see Cutler as better than average. But they are very similar players. So, you're putting one guy down (who happens to be the QB of your favorite team), to the point where you are clearly undervaluing his skill set in order to try to make a point.

Here's the thing: according to Football Outsiders, in 2008, the average performance from a quarterback was Dan Orlovsky/Trent Edwards

[URL="http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb"]FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Football analysis and NFL stats for the Moneyball era - Authors of Pro Football Prospectus 2008[/URL]

In their stats, an average performance always seems to be weighed down by the very worst players of the year, so average always comes out between the 20-25th best player at the position. This is only one way to define average, but I do not reject their assumption that there are more above average QBs in this league that start than below average QBs.

As you can see, Cutler was clearly more effective in Denver's offense last year than Campbell was in the Redskins. I am not disputing this. I'm disputing two things:

1) Why you think that Zorn's conservative style will mesh better with Cutler's caution-to-the-wind playing style than Campbell's.

and

2) When you replace Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal with Santana Moss and Antwaan Randle El, and replace the Denver OL with the Washington OL, how you don't account for a significant drop in Cutler's output.

Obviously, if we don't improve on offense, Cutler isn't going to be as good here as he was in Denver. If we DO improve, he probably would be. And obviously, Campbell will be much better as well.



What he's been given is a bunch of different terminology, and short, underwhelming receivers, and an aging OL. That's a lot of tools, but I would argue that save for an expansion team, that's pretty much as tough a situation as it gets for a young QB.[/quote]

It's the old grass is always greener philosophy.

I know a guy who is a Broncos fan and he thinks Cutler is a whiny little punk and he could really care less if they lose him.

It all depends on your perspective. Fans always undervalue their own players while they overvalue other team's players.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Dear God, is this thread still going???

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538608]I do know if Campbell made decisions as fast and released the ball as fast as Cutler, we'd have won more games last year. Campbell holds on to the ball far too long. Our offensive line declined last year but it was still above average. Campbell simply takes too long to make decisions and holds on to the ball too long. He's had the same problem in every system he's ever been in. [B]Its unreasonable to think he's going to change all of a sudden.[/B] Its going to take YEARS to rebuild our offensive line so that its dramatically better than the one we had last year. So what do we do? keep a slow quarterback 3-4 years and hope when our lines better he can finally be a franchise QB? Or simply find a guy know who can make quicker decisions to compensate for your line?[/quote]

It's also unreasonable to think that

a.) Campbell is the only problem the team has (which ppl arguing for Cutler make it look he is).

b.) Trading for Campbell and bringing Cutler is not going to affect the locker room.

c.) Cutler is going to make an immediate difference when he needs to learn the system, is not accustomed to our WRs, and needs to develop a rapport with Zorn (things that Campbell is expected to accomplish since...wait for it...he's in the SAME offense for the 2nd year in a row!).

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;538619]Dear God, is this thread still going???[/quote]

Until the Cutler situation is cleared up I see no end to the mindless speculation and wacky trade scenarios.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;538609]Well by year's end we'll know if JC is the real deal or not. Until then this debate is kinda silly considering the chance of Cutler coming here is pretty much zero.[/quote]Do you really think if Campbell improves to the point where he garners pro-bowl votes next year, that the haters are suddenly going to be nowhere to be found?

*We* already know what we have in Campbell. *They* are still hating anyway. And for Jay Cutler, none-the-less.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538622]Do you really think if Campbell improves to the point where he garners pro-bowl votes next year, that the haters are suddenly going to be nowhere to be found?

*We* already know what we have in Campbell. *They* are still hating anyway. And for Jay Cutler, none-the-less.[/quote]

It sure would be interesting to see what happens.

My guess is if he was a Pro Bowl type of QB people will either shut up, admit they were wrong and jump on the bandwagon, or insist they are still correct, kinda like offiss-style and his Portis hating (he's a 3rd down back LOL)

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;538617]It's the old grass is always greener philosophy.

I know a guy who is a Broncos fan and he thinks Cutler is a whiny little punk and he could really care less if they lose him.

It all depends on your perspective. [B] Fans always undervalue their own players while they overvalue other team's players[/B].[/quote]

That sounds like what Snyder use to be accused of and fans hated him for it.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=GTripp0012;538622]Do you really think if Campbell improves to the point where he garners pro-bowl votes next year, that the haters are suddenly going to be nowhere to be found?

*We* already know what we have in Campbell. *They* are still hating anyway. And for Jay Cutler, none-the-less.[/quote]


Won't make a difference who the Qb is, I suspect we will have the same record or a game +/- difference. We acquired Haynesworth, but have a ton of holes to plug up in terms of both starting talent and depth. What is with using the term hate anyway? Folks not thinking JC is going to get the job done, doesn't mean they hate him. Hate is an extreme emotion to have for a decent QB. That being said, I don't think Campbell is going to improve all that much. He has been in the league for 6 seasons and still has some of the quirks that rooks have. The different schemes that have been thrown at him would be a factor, but it is his mechanics that are under scrutiny, thus the offensive scheme is only a partial factor. Also, a QB is only as good as the guys around him. Our Wr corp are a bunch of underachievers minus Moss. Our line is suspect and Clinton is getting pounded on as the long seasons progress. We will address this via the draft I am sure, but do you think rooks are going to be playing like all pros their initial season? Cutler is not the answer, but face it we have been at this game since we drafted Schuler, putting our hopes in a young stud only to find out he doesn't have what it takes to be the next Theismann, Schraeder, or Rypien. I don't hate JC at all, I begged Gibbs to start him ASAP, just like I was glad Ramsey was drafted and thought he could get the job done. JC might surprise us so called "haters", but I had hope in Frerotte, Ramsey, and now JC and they have been average thus far. 2009 should be it for the JC experiment. If he produces finally, all bets are off and maybe we have found our man, but thus far I can't say that I am overly confident that is going to happen.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[IMG]http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/9610/cutler9297875.jpg[/IMG]

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

:lol: That's good.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;538556]Not sure youre responding to alot of people, seems like just me, lol.


[B] Quarterbacks of Cutlers pedigree[/B] almost never make it to free agency. Cutler was drafted with the 12th overall pick in 2006. Cutler is worth two-first rounders, minimum. Trading the 13th overall pick and Campbell and a mediocre player like Horton (hypothetically) for Cutler would be the bargain of the centurey. [/quote]
HA!

HAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHA

you mean a losing record, no playoff appearances and a high int %? I think you like cutler more than any bronco's fan i've ever met.

when drew brees was available - that's the guy you break the bank on. not a whiny QB that'd only be slightly better. once again, he's not bringing his WRs with him. or his OL. we don't have the money, especially if you're talking about trading away cap hit players, and he's not worth 2 first round picks AND players.

that's beyond stupid.

If you're going to sell the franchise on one player, can we at least make sure he's good before wasting 4000 pages discussing him?

I get it, you hate our QB, but saying cutler's a better fit makes me wonder if someone's paying attention - zorn is big on discipline and cutler gambles a LOT.

how many broncos games did you watch in full last season? just curious.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Highly unlikely we trade JC . Nobody knows if Culter is better or will be the better QB over the next few years . But , as long as we score 1 td a game , the QB will feel the heat , as will the head coach / OC . Denver scored 100 pts more than we did , and Cutler has thrown 45 tds the past two years vs 25 for JC . , we have a much better RB , they have the better OL . I just hope we can get the offence to get into the endzone a hell of a lot more in the coming years .

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

I wonder if McDaniels is trying to pull a Darth Hoody and keep Cutler just for the hell of it. Due to fines, he won't sit out, and they have Chris Simms as back ups. Although I'm sure whatever other teams are offering may tempt him in the end.

[url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/23/mcdaniels-on-cutler-hes-our-quarterback/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive McDaniels on Cutler: ‘He’s our quarterback’ «[/url]

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Ruhskins;539178]I wonder if McDaniels is trying to pull a Darth Hoody and keep Cutler just for the hell of it. Due to fines, he won't sit out, and they have Chris Simms as back ups. Although I'm sure whatever other teams are offering may tempt him in the end.

[url=http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/23/mcdaniels-on-cutler-hes-our-quarterback/]NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive McDaniels on Cutler: ‘He’s our quarterback’ «[/url][/quote]
McD's just trying to make Jay feel good and wanted. I'd expect Jay to be skeptical though.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

Looks like Cutler is going somewhere.....

Bowlen Says Broncos Will Trade Cutler
Posted by Mike Florio on March 31, 2009, 9:14 p.m.

Wow.

The calendar doesn’t yet say April 1, but we’re not sure that the Broncos haven’t gotten a head start on the process.

In a statement released Tuesday night, owner Pat Bowlen says that the team will accommodate quarterback Jay Cutler’s request for a trade:

“Numerous attempts to contact Jay Cutler in the last 10 days, both by [coach] Josh McDaniels and myself, have been unsuccessful.

“A conversation with his agent earlier today clearly communicated and confirmed to us that Jay no longer has any desire to play for the Denver Broncos.

“We will begin discussions with other teams in an effort to accommodate his request to be traded.”

Did we say, “Wow”?

If there was any doubt, the auction is open. Let the bidding begin.

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;540953]Looks like Cutler is going somewhere.....

Bowlen Says Broncos Will Trade Cutler
Posted by Mike Florio on March 31, 2009, 9:14 p.m.

Wow.

The calendar doesn’t yet say April 1, but we’re not sure that the Broncos haven’t gotten a head start on the process.

In a statement released Tuesday night, owner Pat Bowlen says that the team will accommodate quarterback Jay Cutler’s request for a trade:

“Numerous attempts to contact Jay Cutler in the last 10 days, both by [coach] Josh McDaniels and myself, have been unsuccessful.

“A conversation with his agent earlier today clearly communicated and confirmed to us that Jay no longer has any desire to play for the Denver Broncos.

“We will begin discussions with other teams in an effort to accommodate his request to be traded.”

Did we say, “Wow”?

If there was any doubt, the auction is open. Let the bidding begin.[/quote]

Boy, you sure love PFT. :smashfrea

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

dead thread

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

[quote=Josh Baker;613742]dead thread[/quote]

What gave you that idea? I thought Cutler was still on the trading block?

Re: Seems like Cutler might be available.
 

I hope you enjoyed your time here, Josh Baker. I imagine the end of it draws near.

FWIW: your attempt to cash in on the sad state of affairs with the team is fairly tasteless. And I'm sorry to say that website has to be one of the most garish things I've seen on the net in a long time.