Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

A few predictions on the salary cap situation.

First, there is almost no way the NFL wins the greivance case against the Skins and Pokes, but will most assuredly file an appeal.

2nd is the 2 teams will be forced into a settlement with the league to avoid further delay of their cap configurations.

And 3rd is they will receive some relief with cap space this year, and most likely extra compensation next year. No idea what that relief will be, but have to figure it will be less than but close to half. The extra compensation next year will be an additional allowance on their 2013 cap number similar to what they gain this year.

Meaning the $18 Million cap penalty will end up being like a $3 million penalty, although it completely destroyed the team's free agency plans this year. Which is what the league wanted all along. My opinions only

Case was dismissed.......skins and cowboys lost their case.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=Gtothearry;918041]Case was dismissed.......skins and cowboys lost their case.[/quote]

AAAAAAAAAAA. No they didn't lose their case, they didn't even lose their appeal. The Arbitrator ruled that he was not the proper venue to have heard the case. Basically the NFL got the case dropped based off their arguement that he couldn't hear the case.

The question is will DS take it further. If I were him I would. I'd file through the courts and force the NFL's hand. They don't want to lose their exemption and they don't want to lose this case. I think if filed they will come to some agreement in order to keep it out of court which then the Skins can drop their case.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

Actually who knows what the actual ruling is cause I'm seeing two different ways its being presented
1- That Burbank dropped the appeal
2- That Burbank ruled against our appeal.

So WTF?

[url]https://twitter.com/#!/JasonColeYahoo/status/204959718492475393[/url]

Dismissed to me is construde to mean he could not hear the case.

then there is Adam Schefter saying the case was dismissed.

[url=http://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/statuses/204960056725348352]Twitter / Adam Schefter: Professor Burbank dismisse ...[/url]

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

Let's keep this talk over here

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/47910-redskins-cowboys-salary-cap-challenge-dismissed.html[/url]

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

So where do we stand now on the cap?

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

The cap is expected to decline next year and, with the penalty, well have less tha 100m in cap space. We're screwed

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;918392]So where do we stand now on the cap?[/quote]After accounting the rookie pool ($7.484 million), we'll be about $0.5-1.5 million under. There's a lot of vet min deals that aren't counted for in the analysis in this thread yet, as well as the John Beck release (about $1 million freed up in cap). Plus, we don't know if the Redskins designated anyone a post June 1 cut (I suspect they did not, but unless it gets reported, it's private info).

The Redskins can still free up money under the cap by extending Fred Davis before the season, but the more interesting issue is the 2013 cap info, which I might throw something together tomorrow on for interested parties. Unless they want to acquire a veteran salary in a trade though, this is a non-issue. They can pretty much set their roster as they choose from the existing pieces.

In a week, PFT or some other source will likely do a post June 1 cap update using the NFL's numbers. Then we'll be up to date.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

My very best bet for our current cap room is $2.065 million. That's not an official number by any means, but it's not pulled out of my ass either, and should be fairly close to the real number.

That number will be accurate as to after the Redskins sign their rookies.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=GTripp0012;918604]The Redskins can still free up money under the cap by extending Fred Davis before the season, but the more interesting issue is the 2013 cap info, which I might throw something together tomorrow on for interested parties.[/quote]


Count me in as an interested party. 2013 is not looking good.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;918648]Count me in as an interested party. [B]2013 is not looking good.[/B][/quote]

I'm struggling to understand why this is thought to be the case.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;918648]Count me in as an interested party. 2013 is not looking good.[/quote]

You say goodbye to Hall, Brown, Grossman, maybe Moss and Cooley too.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;918653]You say goodbye to Hall, Brown, Grossman, maybe Moss and Cooley too.[/quote]

Well its mos def Moss and D Hall's last year with their contracts. Cooley and Brown kinda depends on their healthy, but Browns is kinda friendly if he somehow plays well this year. Rex only has a one year deal.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=Schneed10;918652]I'm struggling to understand why this is thought to be the case.[/quote]

with the cap penalty, our salary cap is expected to be around 98MM (as the nfl salary cap is expected to go down next year). We currently have 96MM committed to 2013 according to your figures on the site. Granted, we can get rid of a good portion by cutting:

[quote=SFREDSKIN;918653]You say goodbye to Hall, Brown, Grossman, maybe Moss and Cooley too.[/quote]

however, if we get rid of those players, and taking into account our projected needs, we'd still need to sign 2 starting caliber cornerbacks (Hall is the only one currently on our roster), 2 starting caliber safeties, 1-2 starting caliber OTs (i am not optomistic about williams future) and a starting interior lineman, depending on how our players shake out this year. if we dont resign/extend davis between now and 2013 and/or he cant stay away from the weed, you can add starting TE to that list too.

Those are alot of needs to fill with limited cap space. And considering we wont have first round draft picks the next two years, ALL of our starting needs are going to have to be filled through free agency in 2013 and 2014. sure, we could get lucky with a 2nd or 3rd rounder, but you cant count on it.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

Been running around lately but will try to get some updated cap sheets up in the next week.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=Chico23231;918659]Well its mos def Moss and D Hall's last year with their contracts. Cooley and Brown kinda depends on their healthy, but Browns is kinda friendly if he somehow plays well this year. Rex only has a one year deal.[/quote]

It's a pretty good situation for us regardless. Hopefully Moss and Hall play lights out this season for their next contract. Brown could well be replaced in next year's draft too.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;918648]Count me in as an interested party. 2013 is not looking good.[/quote]They can move a ton of 2013 salary to 2014 if they need to in order to make a big move or two. Most notably, Fletcher has a 5.5 million salary in 2013, if he's back, but they can move about 3.5 million of that into the future when he won't be on the team (they'll still have to pay it of course).

The big issue is that the 2012 roster has to be strong. We know it's young. If it's young and weak, 2013 is going to be a tear-down rebuilding year under a reorganized front office. If it's a young, strong roster in 2012, then 2013 will largely be about staying the course and trying to maintain gains (Shanahan might try to take the next step, but I think the most prudent use of 2013 is to attempt to maintain any gains made this season). The cap won't prevent the Redskins from keeping their young players. It's just going to prevent going outside the organization to get core pieces that every team could use.

Here's a list of all free agents next year (not including anyone still on the market this year):

[url]https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak_E9cWbxU3HdG5IUEdMQnU1SkZ1eXJGSGNFOWFITGc[/url]

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=The Goat;918677]It's a pretty good situation for us regardless. Hopefully Moss and Hall play lights out this season for their next contract. [B]Brown could well be replaced in next year's draft too[/B].[/quote]

Find a day 1 starting right tackle with a (hopefully) late 2nd round pick - at best? how often does that happen?

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;918703]Find a day 1 starting right tackle with a (hopefully) late 2nd round pick - at best? how often does that happen?[/quote]

Draft to draft it's a possibility though not a probability. Or maybe it's a guy already on the roster...

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

I think the Redskins can expect about three starters total from the next two drafts. If I told you all you could CHOOSE (the Redskins obviously cannot) which three need positions you would take into the 2015 offseason, which positions would you fill?

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;918660]with the cap penalty, our salary cap is expected to be around 98MM (as the nfl salary cap is expected to go down next year). We currently have 96MM committed to 2013 according to your figures on the site. Granted, we can get rid of a good portion by cutting:



however, if we get rid of those players, and taking into account our projected needs, we'd still need to sign 2 starting caliber cornerbacks (Hall is the only one currently on our roster), 2 starting caliber safeties, 1-2 starting caliber OTs (i am not optomistic about williams future) and a starting interior lineman, depending on how our players shake out this year. if we dont resign/extend davis between now and 2013 and/or he cant stay away from the weed, you can add starting TE to that list too.

Those are alot of needs to fill with limited cap space. And considering we wont have first round draft picks the next two years, ALL of our starting needs are going to have to be filled through free agency in 2013 and 2014. sure, we could get lucky with a 2nd or 3rd rounder, but you cant count on it.[/quote]

CC does an amazing job keeping the cap figures updated on this site, but he will be the first to tell you that while the numbers shown for 2013 are a very accurate reflection of the way the 2013 books look today, they will look much much different come March 2013.

There is so much opportunity to create cap space in those 2013 figures that it's not even worth putting any thought into at this point.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=GTripp0012;918718]I think the Redskins can expect about three starters total from the next two drafts. If I told you all you could CHOOSE (the Redskins obviously cannot) which three need positions you would take into the 2015 offseason, which positions would you fill?[/quote]

Easy. A right tackle, a safety, and cornerback.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=GTripp0012;918718]I think the Redskins can expect about three starters total from the next two drafts. If I told you all you could CHOOSE (the Redskins obviously cannot) which three need positions you would take into the 2015 offseason, which positions would you fill?[/quote]

CB, safety and right-tackle...probably in that order for need but draft-wise I'm a BPA believer.

I would love to see us replace Hall next year and we need starter CB talent regardless.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

That's probably what I would go with too, although I would make sure MLB was in mine if the exercise was *only* three starters. You can find quality MLBs later in the draft (even Cerrato found HB Blades in the 5th), but if your team doesn't have one, then your defense ends up looking like the 2006 Redskins or 2011 Buccaneers -- just an absolute sieve. I'd definitely address MLB in the 2013 draft, even if I like the season that Bryan Kehl or Jonathan Goff has.

So I'd probably go: MLB, Slot corner (which is a CB/S hybrid kind of like Rich Crawford), and right tackle. And of the three, I'd say right tackle is both the least immediately pressing issue, and the longest standing weakness on the Redskins.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

My definition of "starter" (btw) just means that if you changed your coaching staff and organization entirely and had the existing roster in an entirely new scheme, a 'starter' would remain in the lineup because he's too good to be sitting on the bench. Obviously some later round picks (think Justin Tryon) can grow into roles and play a lot, but he's a free agent now four years in. So not a "starter" by definition, even though both the Redskins and the Colts used him as such.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

What's all this "if you had a new regime" talk? You better be knocking on wood as you say that stuff, GTripp!

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=Schneed10;918749]What's all this "if you had a new regime" talk? You better be knocking on wood as you say that stuff, GTripp![/quote]Just a definition. Not a loaded hypothetical.

A loaded hypothetical would be wondering how many changes this team would need if they can't win this year. But until they lose their fourth game, I wouldn't rush the evaluation process. There's plenty of time to be thorough.

Anyway, I'm on record saying the Redskins [B]can[/B] win a whole bunch in 2012. Not going to say 'will'. Not enough faith in the coaches yet to not screw this up. But this team is leaning towards the young side (at last), talented enough at the critical positions (QB, pass rusher, TE, MLB, LT) to compete with the top teams in the NFL, and might even have enough depth to weather the injuries of a long NFL season. That last one is the key. They are deeper than they were in 2010 and 2011, but are they deep enough?

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

How 'bout let's see how our 2012 draft pics and FA pick-ups perform this year before we decide that 2013 is doomed due to what we may or may not have to spend. I, for one, am optimistic that regardless the salary cap, we will be able to field a competetive and progressively better team each year with the current regime. Just because you don't have a first rounder, doesn't mean you can't find starters in the draft or elsewhere for that matter. You don't need 22 superstars to be a contender...

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;918751]How 'bout let's see how our 2012 draft pics and FA pick-ups perform this year before we decide that 2013 is doomed due to what we may or may not have to spend. I, for one, am optimistic that regardless the salary cap, we will be able to field a competetive and progressively better team each year with the current regime. Just because you don't have a first rounder, doesn't mean you can't find starters in the draft or elsewhere for that matter. [B]You don't need 22 superstars to be a contender...[/B][/quote]No, in fact, even the best teams are incomplete, which is why it doesn't make any sense to try and build a complete team that can't ever get any better. It's also why I'm cautiously optimistic about the Redskins this year. They're not better than 20-22 teams in the NFL, but they also can play top ten teams pretty evenly with their current roster.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

I'll show work on Monday or something, but if the salary cap stays at $120.6, I have the Redskins $8.2 million over the cap in 2013 (after all re-signings and rookie signings, so that's not a figure they'll have to comply with at the start of free agency).

No resignings are in that figure though. We'll have five players eligible for RFA (Armstrong, Banks, Gano, Young, Paulsen) if they make the team this year. Also if we want to franchise Fred Davis again, the tender will be $6.5 million (120% increase).

That's really not that high of a number. The Raiders were more than $30 million over the cap this past year AND that didn't include their rookie signings or re-signings. I think they cut just 5 or 6 players, and only really 3 of them could be deemed true cap casualties.

The bottom line is this: Moss, Cooley, and Hall aren't likely to be back in 2013 at their current salaries, but I'm not sure that wasn't always the case, even before the cap penalty.

The cap may be 120mm but we've got an 18mm penalty... And the cap is projected to go down. The sky is not falling but were back to the days of "salary cap hell" year in and year out due to the penalties

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;918764]The cap may be 120mm but we've got an 18mm penalty... And the cap is projected to go down. The sky is not falling but were back to the days of "salary cap hell" year in and year out due to the penalties[/quote]But getting $18 million artificially added to our cap in 2014 will keep this tight cap situation from becoming a tight cap cycle.

They are going to pour a lot of 2013 salary into 2014 and beyond to make ends meet, but probably not $18 million worth of salary. Probably closer to $10 million.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;918764]The cap may be 120mm but we've got an 18mm penalty... And the cap is projected to go down. The sky is not falling but were back to the days of "salary cap hell" year in and year out due to the penalties[/quote]

As usual, you're just not listening when it comes to cap situations.

The Redskins' cap next year will be $102 million (assume $120M less the $18M penalty). We currently have $96M tied up in players for 2013, but hardly any of that money is guaranteed.

The following players could be restructured or cut to save approximately

- DeAngelo Hall - Max Savings of $8.0M
- Chris Cooley - Max Savings of $4.0M
- Josh Wilson - Max Savings of $3.9M
- Santana Moss - Max Savings of $4.2M
- Adam Carriker - Max Savings of $3.0M
- Brandon Meriweather - Max Savings of $2.5M

There's $25M in potential savings on that group of players. And what GTripp is saying, because in 2014 there is no more $18M penalty, if they want to the Redskins could restructure all of these guys instead of cutting them. That would kick more of the cap hit into 2014, but an extra $18M in space makes that extremely affordable.

As usual, they will be in position to make whatever free agent moves they see as a priority. They will not be in position to buy every top free agent on the market, but that has not been their strategy under Shanahan and Allen, nor should it ever be. They will continue to build through the draft and sign only a handful of players. It's quite easy to see how their current track is 110% sustainable.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=Schneed10;918771]As usual, you're just not listening when it comes to cap situations.

The Redskins' cap next year will be $102 million (assume $120M less the $18M penalty). We currently have $96M tied up in players for 2013, but hardly any of that money is guaranteed.

The following players could be restructured or cut to save approximately

- DeAngelo Hall - Max Savings of $8.0M
- Chris Cooley - Max Savings of $4.0M
- Josh Wilson - Max Savings of $3.9M
- Santana Moss - Max Savings of $4.2M
- Adam Carriker - Max Savings of $3.0M
- Brandon Meriweather - Max Savings of $2.5M

There's $25M in potential savings on that group of players. And what GTripp is saying, because in 2014 there is no more $18M penalty, if they want to the Redskins could restructure all of these guys instead of cutting them. That would kick more of the cap hit into 2014, but an extra $18M in space makes that extremely affordable.

As usual, they will be in position to make whatever free agent moves they see as a priority. They will not be in position to buy every top free agent on the market, but that has not been their strategy under Shanahan and Allen, nor should it ever be. They will continue to build through the draft and sign only a handful of players. It's quite easy to see how their current track is 110% sustainable.[/quote]I will say this: if they choose to give new long term contracts to both Orakpo and Fred Davis next offseason, that's probably the limit in terms of cap flexibility for contracts in excess of $5 million annually.

But if they choose to extend Orakpo and Davis and just go out and make a flurry of one year signings for competition, it's likely that they've earned that course of action with strong play on the field in 2012.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

any word on fred davis contract negotiations?

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=GTripp0012;918799]I will say this: if they choose to give new long term contracts to both Orakpo and Fred Davis next offseason, that's probably the limit in terms of cap flexibility for contracts in excess of $5 million annually.

But if they choose to extend Orakpo and Davis and just go out and make a flurry of one year signings for competition, it's likely that they've earned that course of action with strong play on the field in 2012.[/quote]

I don't think I agree with that, GTripp. There's so much more opportunity than that to clear space. Davis and Orakpo don't have to be the only significant moves.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

are we really sitting at $4.5M in cap room?

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

[quote=los panda;933255]are we really sitting at $4.5M in cap room?[/quote]cool

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/08/team-by-team-cap-space-as-of-september-7/]Team-by-team cap space as of September 7 | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[QUOTE=los panda;937737]cool

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/08/team-by-team-cap-space-as-of-september-7/]Team-by-team cap space as of September 7 | ProFootballTalk[/url][/QUOTE]

How amazing is it that even after the cap penalty we are in better shape than the Giants.

Re: Redskins 2012 Salary Cap Status
 

Pretty funny how little some teams are now spending under the new CBA.