Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=skinsguy;928369]I believe if you look closely enough, you'll find just as much hypocrisy on your end. Such as wanting all to recognize something they do not believe in as valid, which is how the Christian community would see legalized gay-marriage. So, you can't argue on both sides. If you truly want equality, you need to be arguing for the Marriage Law to end, not to be amended.

You can't expect everybody to see things the way you do, especially when you continue to spill hateful words and names their way. You'll never be taken seriously. Example, Fred Phelps. Nobody, including a large part of the Christian community, takes him and his group seriously. Until you recognize that you cannot force others, through your insults, to see and believe as you do, the issues will never be solved. That's a big part of a lot of these social issues. Both sides trying to force the other to see things the way they do, when everybody should have the right to their beliefs without ridicule.

The best thing to do is to end the marriage law completely. Nobody receives tax benefits, which of course would suck for married people, but ahh well...you'll adjust. Nobody is considered legally married, because marriage will be given back to the religious institution - where it was born from in the first place. The only caveat will be that everybody will be free to put whoever they wish on their insurance. It would no longer be a need for husbands and wives, since there would be no such thing, legally.

The legal system would be free of so many divorce cases, and those splitting up their "marriage" would not be forced to lose half of what they have earned over the years. Of course, you'd still need the legal system for custody of children, but divorce could be a lot less of a mess without the legal system in place (sorry for those here who are divorce lawyers.)

Finally, gays could come up with their own version of marriage if they so choose. Just like religious people would still continue to get married via a priest or pastor conducting the service. Religious people and others who are against homosexuality would no longer need to worry about ridicule from the PC "Lefties" who call them bigots for believing what the bible says. It would be none of your business. Just like gays being happily married would be none of the business of the religious right.

No harm no foul, one could go quietly observing his/her right-winged conservative ways, you could go on quietly hating religious people. :)[/quote]

The difference that you seem to be missing, is marriage isn't forcing a single thing on the churches. It is creating more freedom for the individuals to make decisions, while others are trying to constrict freedom. The amount of time and money taken up by gay marriage is beyond crazy to me. Let them get married so that they can be viewed legally as one for things like healthcare, next-of-kin, etc type decisions. It doesn't affect anyone in a negative manner if we do this. If this went live today, no one here (unless you're a gay person that gets married) has their life changed.

Most gay couples, and many non-gay couples, couldn't give half a shit if the 'church recognizes' their marriage. It's about the legal ramifications around not being married that matters; if this happens, non-gay couples need to have their title to the government changed as well. It is about fairness and consistency.

The church doesn't have to recognize marriage. Call it something else if you like -- as long as it fills the legal roles of a typical marriage. Your argument should have 0 credibility or influence on this decision because the church, and their values, should not be weighed or factored in when it comes to making governmental decisions. No Christians are being forced to do anything, they're just trying to force others from having something.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;928335]LMAO!

Watch this vid.
Vante exec makes video of himself harrasing a Chic Fil A employee.
His boss sees it and fires him.
What an idiot!

[url=http://www.businessinsider.com/vante-cfo-bullies-chick-fil-a-worker-then-promptly-gets-fired-for-it-2012-8]Vante CFO Bullies Chick-Fil-A Worker, Then Promptly Gets Fired For It - Business Insider[/url][/quote]

First class douche bag. It's one thing if you want to stand on the side and protest, but berating middle class workers who are trying to make a living isn't the way to go. They don't make company policy, they don't donate the money to the hate groups. Common man!!

Glad he got fired. I would say that backfired big time on him.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=Mattyk;928357]What an a-hole[/quote]


Without a doubt!I will tell you though he wasn't even close to being as big an rear end as some customers have been for other reasons,if you have ever worked in the food business the public can be down right stupid.:)

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=firstdown;928322]You have never been to a BBQ to raise money for a church which feeds the poor. People pack churches every week and they pass a tray to make donations. Hell just 3 months back we had over 500 people waiting in lines to buy food and beer to help the poor. Having a golf event on Sept 7 which will have around 140 golfers at $100 a man to raise money for the poor. I could a 100 pages on people gathering to help rais money for the poor so you can quit waiting. Maybe you should try joing an organization that helps the poor and you would actually see what people do to help them.[/quote]


Still waiting NC?

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

I've said this before and I'll say it again - remove the term "marriage contract" from the government's dictionary. Instead, the only thing [I]anyone[/I] can get from the govt. is a State sanctioned civil union performed by a government official and ending the authority of religious officers to provide the State's sanction to such conracts. Such a union would permit individuals to receive the benefits of the traditional marriage [I]contract[/I] while ending the government's involvement in the right of various churches to define their own requirements for the marriage [I]sacrament[/I].

Believe it or not, the marriage [I]contract[/I] was not originally a religious issue but an enforceable contract at law related to, but not the same thing as, the religious [I]sacrament[/I] of "marriage". Back when women were essentially considered property and/or were unable to hold title, enter into contracts and had other similar restrictions on their existence as a legal entity, breaking off a marriage [I]contract[/I] (i.e. terminating the contract on some basis other than fraud or other legally recognized basis for terminating a contract) had tangible legal damages. Whereas, the marriage [I]sacrament[/I] actually [I]encouraged[/I] people - man or woman - to break off an engagement if, upon reflection, they discovered that they could not live up to the sacrament's requirements (fidelity, love and honor, etc.). Such a termination, if believed by the priest/reverend, etc. to be authentic and the right course, carried no religious santion - [I]even if[/I] legal penalties were incurred. [I]i.e.[/I] It may have been illegal to break the [I]contract[/I], but it was not a sin to do so.

Eventually, in our civil society, as women began to be viewed differently under the law, they gained more individual rights under the marriage contract and, in fact, became a party to the contract in their own right [Originally, the woman's father, not the woman herself, was the contracting party - it's that women as chattel thing again - and it was he (or the woman's brothers) who was (were) entitled to the "benefit of the bargain" if the groom broke of the engagement].

B/c the evolution of marriage as a sacrament within religion developed in conjuction to its development as the legally binding contract, the concepts of marriage [I]contract[/I] and the [I]sacrament[/I] of marriage got intermingled to such a point that, now, religious officers (priests, reverends etc.) are actually officers of the State. When such individuals sign a marriage license, and in addition to completing the religious [I]sacramental[/I] rite, these religious officers convey the rights and liabilities of a governmentally sanctioned marriage [I]contract[/I]. Essentially, every religious officer is empowered by the State to act as an officer of the State similar to a Justice of the Peace. I believe this to be both wrong in principle and wrong as a violation of the Constitution's brilliantly insightful stricture requiring separation of Church and State

While the values of the sacrament, being timeless in their own way, have remained essentially the same, the marriage contract has evolved considerable since women were considered chattel.

I would suggest that, historically, the government is a party to such a contract b/c they are bound by law to give certain benefits to other parties to the contract [I]and[/I] these benefits cannot exist without a duly authorized govt. official (be it a sanctioned church official or a Justice of the Peace) approving the contract. Obviously, the legal rights of the parties and, in fact the parties themselves ([I]i.e.[/I] the woman individually rather than some other family member) have consistently been modified to recognize the changing [I]legal[/I] principles governing our civil society. I see no legal road block to further modification of this form of contract such that is consistent with the Constitutional requirement of equal rights regardless of race, religion or gender.

"Render unto Ceaser that which is Ceaser's, render unto God that which is God's." By the laws' of Ceaser, we are all entitled to enter into legally binding contracts which are not [I]inherently[/I] illegal (i.e. a contract to kill someone). IMHO, the best and most efficient way to delineate the separation of Church and State on this issue is to use the appropriate, legally neutral language entering into such a contract for all individuals regardless of race, creed, or gender. Just like the coin bearing Ceasar's image, a contract legally binding two people to each other for the tangible, material requirements of pooling of resources, incurring and sharing long term expenses & benefits (both personal and legal), tax considerations and all other consequential legal remafications of such a contract should require [I]only[/I] the tangible, material sanction of the State - not the intangible, spiritual sanction of God.

As to Chic-a-fil, my biggest issue is that everyone is entitled to their opinion -to me Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Religion are pretty high on my list of "Yes. This is important." Chic-a-fil's choice to exercise those rights as they see fit should be respected. You don't have to agree with it, but they have a right to say it and legally act upon it.

To be clear, and in my opinion, God doesn't care with whom we sleep - just that we keep the two great commandments (Love God above all others and love they neighbor as thyself). That's my opinion and I to the extent [I]my church[/I] feels differently, I will work to change that. At the same time, I also firmly believe each and everyone of us is entitled to speak their mind and state their opinions - no matter how offensive others find it. Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Speech are all equally important rights. Chic-a-fil wants to incorporate their religious beliefs into their business plan - fine. People wish to protest that decision, also fine. To me, it's all just confusing and distorting the underlying substantive issue.

Respecting and defining the Constitutional requiring the Separation of Church and State as it applies to the marriage contract would go a long way to furthering [I]everyone's[/I] freedom of religion and freedom of speech on this issue. As such, rather than (IMHO) unconstitutionally granting the legal benefits of the marriage contract to some and not others based on their gender, do away with the legally confusing marriage [I]contract[/I] and replace with civil unions for all. Then, let churches regulate the [I]sacrament[/I] of marriage as they see fit.

The brilliant men behind the Constitution created an evolving document with timeless truths - separation of Church & State being one of them. In concert with that brilliant intention, it is time to evolve and to separate the "rite" of marriage from the "right" of marriage.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;928261]I posted this on facebook the other day and the message applies greatly here.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/KJQDa.jpg[/IMG]

Most of the religious conservatives don't want the government to interfere in their lives, but have no problem insisting it does so in other people's lives. Irony. Hypocritical. Asinine.[/quote]Actually the message doesn't apply. The choice the woman is about to make affects more than just her (Child & father). Again, another issue that should be decided at the state and not federal level.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;928419]Actually the message doesn't apply. The choice the woman is about to make affects more than just her (Child & father). Again, another issue that should be decided at the state and not federal level.[/quote]

The message stands. It doesn't affect the guy with the picket sign that knows nothing about her situation.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;928292]I said it's a shame they can't "go out of their way" to help the homeless like this. If I'm wrong about that, can you please show me where any lines were 3 hours long or cars backed up for miles just to help out the homeless and needy? I'll pull up a chair and wait on this...

[IMG]http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/292319_10150927580966642_629690956_n.jpg[/IMG]
[/quote]There are millions of Christians who spend many more hours.....per week.....actually working helping others.

Now let's talk about donations. In one division, of one charity, of one specific faith, specifically Catholic Charities of NY, annual donations for individuals and businesses were over $ 16M in a year. At let's say an average pay rate of $ 17 / hr. after taxes, that would equate to over 940,000 hours of work/pay that were donated.

Let's not be obtuse here, Christians donate a great deal to help others and much more than the non-religious. Can I quantify that, not without more time than I'm willing to put into this discussion, but I can guarantee you can't come up with anything to refute that statement.

I'll be patiently waiting :)

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

I feel like in 10-15 years we'll look back and say wow, I can't believe gay marriage was actually a big deal.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=Mattyk;928426]I feel like in 10-15 years we'll look back and say wow, I can't gay marriage was actually a big deal.[/quote]

yup, hopefully be saying as i share a phillip morris premo blend spliff

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=Daseal;928380]The difference that you seem to be missing, is marriage isn't forcing a single thing on the churches. It is creating more freedom for the individuals to make decisions, while others are trying to constrict freedom. The amount of time and money taken up by gay marriage is beyond crazy to me. Let them get married so that they can be viewed legally as one for things like healthcare, next-of-kin, etc type decisions. It doesn't affect anyone in a negative manner if we do this. If this went live today, no one here (unless you're a gay person that gets married) has their life changed.

Most gay couples, and many non-gay couples, couldn't give half a shit if the 'church recognizes' their marriage. It's about the legal ramifications around not being married that matters; if this happens, non-gay couples need to have their title to the government changed as well. It is about fairness and consistency.

The church doesn't have to recognize marriage. Call it something else if you like -- as long as it fills the legal roles of a typical marriage. Your argument should have 0 credibility or influence on this decision because the church, and their values, should not be weighed or factored in when it comes to making governmental decisions. No Christians are being forced to do anything, they're just trying to force others from having something.[/quote]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I think you are completely misreading Skinsguy's post. I dont think he said anything at all about churches. Hes saying remove the federal govt. from marriage all together. That a marriage, gay, straight, poly or anything else shouldnt be recognized by our government. Because why should it?[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]And i almost completely agree with him and i think skinsguy put it very well. But not the tax thing.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Everyone thinks theres some big benefit to getting married tax wise. There really isnt. There used to be back in the day (pre-70's) when the tax scale for 1 person was twice as steep as it was for 2 married people. But they changed that and made the tax scale much steeper for married people.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]The last time i checked tax revenues are nearly identical when you compare actual numbers to the estimates of what total revenues would be if everyone had to file as single. This means a couple things:[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]-If you are low income or high income there is a almost always a Marriage Penalty[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]-Lower Middle and Middle income (i think 50-80k joint) there are usually some minor benefits. But not always (watch out if your incomes are very similar)[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]-Usually the differences change from year to year[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Also filing jointly usually:[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]-Means youre probably paying more if you make over 100k jointly, unless just one person is the income earner. Most people now a days especially the 100-500k range people are dual earners and are penalized. [/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]-Usually always hurt the poor. The IRS LOVES single moms. There are so many benefits poor people forgo by getting hitched. I think its never better (tax wise) to get married if youre poor. It may be worse, sometimes a lot worse (earned income credit), but never better. Very sad.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]Honestly the more i think about, the supposed "marriage benefit" is a pretty inconsequential thing for most of those who actually get the benefit. However it can really really f-over poor people. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana][COLOR=black]But it may not matter because the big Marriage Penalty is set to come back this year. GW Bush was the President that ended the original Marriage Penalty, but he didnt really replace it with a "marriage benefit". It was a revenue neutral thing, and its set to go away. [/COLOR][/FONT]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Also skinsguy, getting rid of marriage law doesnt mean getting rid of alimony, ex-wives, divorce court or any of that stuff. When someone gets married they are entering a contract. The marriage license is just a contract. We will still need contracts (which the "life-partner" crowd already uses) to bring 2 (or multiple) people together legally. If they separate it will be a breach of contract and shared achievements will need to be accounted for and divided.[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]OKay all that said there is one BIG benefit to being married tax wise. You can give your assets to your spouse tax free. This primarily effects estate taxes, which as we all know only affect those disgusting rich people. Maybe a provision of the contract people would enter into would allow for this? [/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=Chico23231;928430]yup, hopefully be saying as i share a phillip morris premo blend spliff[/quote]

lol could happen

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[url=http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/08/tolerant-left-strikes-again-bomb-threat-at-west-virginia-chick-fil-a/]Tolerant Left Strikes Again… Bomb Threat at West Virginia Chick-fil-A | The Gateway Pundit[/url]

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=firstdown;928415]Still waiting NC?[/quote]


Good luck! He still wont tell me if hes boycotting CFA or not.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=Daseal;928424]The message stands. It doesn't affect the guy with the picket sign that knows nothing about her situation.[/quote]I won't hijack and go down the whole abortion issue rat-hole, but her situation isn't what the gov't needs to protect. How about the Constitutional right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness for the unborn child.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=firstdown;928322]You have never been to a BBQ to raise money for a church which feeds the poor. People pack churches every week and they pass a tray to make donations. Hell just 3 months back we had over 500 people waiting in lines to buy food and beer to help the poor. Having a golf event on Sept 7 which will have around 140 golfers at $100 a man to raise money for the poor. I could a 100 pages on people gathering to help rais money for the poor so you can quit waiting. Maybe you should try joing an organization that helps the poor and you would actually see what people do to help them.[/quote]

I was raised in a Baptist church no beer my friend. You still didn't get the jest of my post. It wasn't to say that churches don't help the poor and needy, but I have NEVER EVER seen or heard about around the country where people waited in lines and went way out of their way to support the poor and needy. Holding a BBQ or a golf tournament isn't going out of the way. Waiting in line for 3 hours to get a chicken sandwich to "support" a group is going out of your way.

You could get 100 pages of people gathering money, and I could gather 1,000 times that of people gathering money and doing things for the poor and needy that don't believe in god.

[QUOTE=Mattyk;928426]I feel like in 10-15 years we'll look back and say wow, I can't gay marriage was actually a big deal.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;928425]There are millions of Christians who spend many more hours.....per week.....actually working helping others.

Now let's talk about donations. In one division, of one charity, of one specific faith, specifically Catholic Charities of NY, annual donations for individuals and businesses were over $ 16M in a year. At let's say an average pay rate of $ 17 / hr. after taxes, that would equate to over 940,000 hours of work/pay that were donated.

Let's not be obtuse here, [U][B]Christians donate a great deal to help others and much more than the non-religious.[/B][/U] Can I quantify that, not without more time than I'm willing to put into this discussion, but I can guarantee you can't come up with anything to refute that statement.

I'll be patiently waiting :)[/quote]


[B][SIZE="7"]O' RLY?[/SIZE][/B]



[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundation]Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

[quote]To maintain its status as a charitable foundation, it must donate at least 5% of its assets each year.[17] Thus the donations from the foundation each year would amount to over US$1.5 billion at a minimum.[/quote]

[quote]The President of the Global Health Program is Trevor Mundel. The Gates Foundation has quickly become a major influence upon global health; the approximately US$800 million that the foundation gives every year for global health approaches the annual budget of the United Nations World Health Organization (193 nations) and is comparable to the funds given to fight infectious disease by the United States Agency for International Development.[20] The Foundation currently provides 17% (US$86 million in 2006) of the world budget for the attempted eradication of poliomyelitis (polio).[21]

The Global Health Program's other significant grants include:

The Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization
The foundation gave The Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunization a donation of US$750 million on January 25, 2005.[22][23]

Children's Vaccine Program
The Children's Vaccine Program, run by the Program for Appropriate Technology in Health (PATH), received a donation of US$27 million to help vaccinate against Japanese encephalitis on December 9, 2003.[24]

University of Washington Department of Global Health
The foundation provided approximately US$30 million for the foundation of the new Department of Global Health at the University of Washington in Seattle. The donation promoted three of the Foundation's target areas: education, Pacific Northwest and global health. The foundation also lead a study to increase access to high education globally.

HIV Research
The foundation has donated a grand total of US$287 million to various HIV/AIDS researchers. The money was split between sixteen different research teams across the world, on the condition that they share their findings with one another.[25]

Aeras Global TB Vaccine Foundation
The foundation gave the Aeras Global TB Vaccine Foundation more than US$280 million to develop and license an improved vaccine against tuberculosis for use in high burden countries.[26][27]

Visceral Leishmaniasis Research
The foundation awarded the Hebrew University of Jerusalem Kuvin Center for the Study of Infectious and Tropical Diseases a $5 million grant in 2009 for research into visceral leishmaniasis, an emerging parasitic disease in Ethiopia where it is frequently associated with HIV/AIDS, and a leading cause of adult illness and death. The project is a collaborative effort with Addis Ababa University and will gather data for analysis to identify the weak links in the transmission cycle and devise methods for control of the disease.[28]

The foundation has also given The Institute for OneWorld Health a donation of nearly US$10 million to support the organization's work on a drug for visceral leishmaniasis. [/quote]


[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/09/warren-buffett-bill-gates-foundation_n_1659734.html]Warren Buffett Donates $1.52 Billion To Bill And Melinda Gates Foundation[/url]

[url=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/26/warren-buffett-42-million_n_1234571.html]Warren Buffett Donated $42 Million In Stock To Mystery Charities[/url]


[url]http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/03/15/havent-gates-and-buffett-given-away-their-billions/\[/url]



Yeah...and that's just two guys...lol Dude, you assertion that christians donate more than non-religious is a bogus claim to say the least. Buffet and Gates alone will most likely demolish any donations by any religious organization in the US. Guess what? Those two are agnostic.


SO can you show me the charity contributions made by churches or religious organizations in the US? I'm not talking about the tithing either. Tithing isn't a donation to a charity either. Religious people are supposed to give 10% of their income to the church as part of tithing. So how much of this money from tithing goes to charities to help other people?

I'll be patiently waiting. :Smoker:

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;928448]How about the Constitutional right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness for the unborn child.[/quote]



The irony is SO overwhelming my brain is starting to fry.



Christians: You gays can't have rights to marry.


Christians: How about the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness for a being who doesn't even exist or even considered a self sufficient life?


Let's not even go down this road. The picture I posted applies much like Daseal stated.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=mlmpetert;928436]Good luck! He still wont tell me if hes boycotting CFA or not.[/quote]

You nerds calm down. It's my birthday and answering your questions has been the least of my worries.


I think I explained my stance on "boycotting". I think it was pretty clear.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;928416]I've said this before and I'll say it again - remove the term "marriage contract" from the government's dictionary. Instead, the only thing [I]anyone[/I] can get from the govt. is a State sanctioned civil union performed by a government official and ending the authority of religious officers to provide the State's sanction to such conracts. Such a union would permit individuals to receive the benefits of the traditional marriage [I]contract[/I] while ending the government's involvement in the right of various churches to define their own requirements for the marriage [I]sacrament[/I].
[/quote]


JR, allow me to take you out for a beer the next time I'm in the area. I love you man. (no homo)


What he said is exactly what they should do in regards to marriage. Just so you know, I stood up and gave you a round of applause for that post.



[quote][U]Believe it or not, the marriage [I]contract[/I] was not originally a religious issue [/U]but an enforceable contract at law related to, but not the same thing as, the religious [I]sacrament[/I] of "marriage". [/quote]

Don't tell religious people that. :laughing-

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;928465]

You could get 100 pages of people gathering money, and I could gather 1,000 times that of people gathering money and doing things for the poor and needy that don't believe in god.[/quote]




...enough said!:food-smil

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;928472]
Yeah...and that's just two guys...lol Dude, you assertion that christians donate more than non-religious is a bogus claim to say the least. Buffet and Gates alone will most likely demolish any donations by any religious organization in the US. Guess what? Those two are agnostic.:[/quote]

Two agnostic multi-billionaires' donations is your response....lol

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;928473].
Christians: How about the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness for a being who isn't even exist or even considered a self sufficient life?


Let's not even go down this road.[/quote]Agree to not go down the road, disagree with your definition of "being that isn't even exist".

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;928474]You nerds calm down. It's my birthday and answering your questions has been the least of my worries.


I think I explained my stance on "boycotting". I think it was pretty clear.[/quote]

Nerds?! Youre the one who, while reading a post from your computer, stood up and gave an entire round of applause to a post you agreed with. PLEASE tell me there were othere people around! Please!

Either way regardless of our differences i hope you had a happy bday!

Speaking of which i thought this was pretty cute:

[url=http://www.theblaze.com/stories/rnc-sends-the-dnc-a-you-didnt-bake-this-cake-in-honor-of-obamas-birthday-and-the-dnc-sends-it-back/]RNC Sends the DNC a ‘You Didn’t Bake This‘ Cake for Obama’s Birthday…and the DNC Sends it Back | TheBlaze.com[/url]

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;928465]I was raised in a Baptist church no beer my friend. You still didn't get the jest of my post. It wasn't to say that churches don't help the poor and needy, but I have NEVER EVER seen or heard about around the country where people waited in lines and went way out of their way to support the poor and needy.[B] Holding a BBQ or a golf tournament isn't going out of the way. [/B]Waiting in line for 3 hours to get a chicken sandwich to "support" a group is going out of your way.

You could get 100 pages of people gathering money, and I could gather 1,000 times that of people gathering money and doing things for the poor and [B]needy that don't believe in god[/B].[/quote]

Really, you tell that to the people who spent hours upon hours organizing an event like those. We start 4 months prior to the golf outing getting it organized. Your just wrong and don't want to admitt it. Also I never injected god into this it was you.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

^ NCSkins is never wrong. NEVER

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

I wonder if God is a Callaway man.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=mlmpetert;928521]Nerds?! Youre the one who, while reading a post from your computer, stood up and gave an entire round of applause to a post you agreed with. PLEASE tell me there were othere people around! Please!

Either way regardless of our differences i hope you had a happy bday!
[/quote]


Nothing wrong with being a nerd. I said it without any negative attached to it. I'm a nerd as well. I use "kids" as well.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=firstdown;928526]Really, you tell that to the people who spent hours upon hours organizing an event like those. We start 4 months prior to the golf outing getting it organized. Your just wrong and don't want to admitt it. Also I never injected god into this it was you.[/quote]

*sigh*


What is it with you? Why is it so F'n hard to understand what I said? You take one statement, and turn it into something completely different that I didn't say nor implied.

Let me go over this one more time with you.

[quote]Also, I find it sad that christians can go out of their way to support anti-gay measures, yet can't do the same for say...homeless people or other individuals in need. Which would you consider a pressing issue?[/quote]

I even mentioned specifically the "waiting 3 hours in a line for chicken sandwich to support a homophobic individual" as a measure of "going out of your way.


[quote]It wasn't to say that churches don't help the poor and needy, but I have NEVER EVER seen or heard about around the country where people waited in lines and went way out of their way to support the poor and needy. [/quote]


SO again, can any of you religious people point out to me where the christians have united nationwide (much like they did here) for a cause to help the poor and homeless? Can you show me one instance where christians on a mass level waited 3 hours just to help out some poor guy or some homeless person?

I think I'm quite aware that christians and churches help the poor and needy, but never seen anything organized like what was done for Chick-fila to help the poor and needy. Your local BBQ and gold tournament isn't even remotely on the same level as what happened on August 1st.

FD, I realize that the few people involved with arranging the BBQ and golf tournament put in hard work, but the majority of the people showing up do so to eat and golf and that's about it. I've been to a number of of these events and did diddly squat. Guess what? My family holds a annual golf tournament to help fund scholarships for a church my grandmother attended. Sure there are about 10-15 people or so that put in a ton of work to market it, plan it, and execute it. This still isn't anything remotely what I'm referring to and you know it. Great so you got a handful of people busting their asses to get a BBQ and gold tournament. How about the rest of the people?

Stop taking my comments out of context and twisting them into something that I haven't said.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=mlmpetert;928530]^ NCSkins is never wrong. NEVER[/quote]

I admit when I'm wrong. However, I'm not wrong when you take something I said and twist it into something I have not and then act like I"m wrong. I'm still waiting for one of you guys so show me where the christians have united together (like they did for this chick-fila event) and support a worthy cause such as helping homeless or the needy. Any such event ever arranged? I'll be waiting.

I think the point was.(and still is) The churches can [B][U]collectively[/U][/B] get together to send their congregation down to chick-fila to support a bigot, yet they can't do the same for the homeless and needy?

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;928533]I wonder id God is a Callaway man.[/quote]


Ok , so when God is on the 18th green and about 12 to the hole and taps it,.....who does he pray to???

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;928568]I admit when I'm wrong. However, I'm not wrong when you take something I said and twist it into something I have not and then act like I"m wrong. I'm still waiting for one of you guys so show me where the christians have united together (like they did for this chick-fila event) and support a worthy cause such as helping homeless or the needy. Any such event ever arranged? I'll be waiting.

I think the point was.(and still is) The churches can [B][U]collectively[/U][/B] get together to send their congregation down to chick-fila to support a bigot, yet they can't do the same for the homeless and needy?[/qu

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;928565]*sigh*


What is it with you? Why is it so F'n hard to understand what I said? You take one statement, and turn it into something completely different that I didn't say nor implied.

Let me go over this one more time with you.



I even mentioned specifically the "waiting 3 hours in a line for chicken sandwich to support a homophobic individual" as a measure of "going out of your way.





SO again, can any of you religious people point out to me where the christians have united nationwide (much like they did here) for a cause to help the poor and homeless? Can you show me one instance where christians on a mass level waited 3 hours just to help out some poor guy or some homeless person?

I think I'm quite aware that christians and churches help the poor and needy, but never seen anything organized like what was done for Chick-fila to help the poor and needy. Your local BBQ and gold tournament isn't even remotely on the same level as what happened on August 1st.

FD, I realize that the few people involved with arranging the BBQ and golf tournament put in hard work, but the majority of the people showing up do so to eat and golf and that's about it. I've been to a number of of these events and did diddly squat. Guess what? My family holds a annual golf tournament to help fund scholarships for a church my grandmother attended. Sure there are about 10-15 people or so that put in a ton of work to market it, plan it, and execute it. This still isn't anything remotely what I'm referring to and you know it. Great so you got a handful of people busting their asses to get a BBQ and gold tournament. How about the rest of the people?

Stop taking my comments out of context and twisting them into something that I haven't said.[/quote]

By the way when did I ever say I was religious.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=firstdown;928703]By the way when did I ever say I was religious.[/quote]

You're not religous from what I gather. I should have stated. "Can any of you religious (or non)......" That was a my error for not adding that in.


In fact, I think you may be the first conservative I've ever come across that wasn't religious. (my impression of you from what you've said before anyways)

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=NC_Skins;928715]You're not religous from what I gather. I should have stated. "Can any of you religious (or non)......" That was a my error for not adding that in.


In fact, I think you may be the first conservative I've ever come across that wasn't religious. (my impression of you from what you've said before anyways)[/quote]

I have plenty of conservative friends that are not very religious or bible thumpers as some may call them. I guess if we take your statement about people waiting in line at a CFA for 3 hours to help the poor your right not very many examples if any. You came across (and I don't think by accident) sounding like religious people don't do anything to help the poor or the needy and that's 100% false. They do plenty day after day it just does not involve standing in a line for 3 hours.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=Giantone;928601]Ok , so when God is on the 18th green and about 12 to the hole and taps it,.....who does he pray to???[/quote]

He does it in third person.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=firstdown;928776]You came across (and I don't think by accident) sounding like religious people don't do anything to help the poor or the needy and that's 100% false. They do plenty day after day it just does not involve standing in a line for 3 hours.[/quote]


That wasn't, nor ever intended to be the implication from what I said. I grew up in a christian home, went to a christian school so I understand what the christian community does. We were talking about something on a national level that was coordinated by the mass christian community, and hence I made my comment about them going out of their way to do the same for something more worthy.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=Daseal;928380]The difference that you seem to be missing, is marriage isn't forcing a single thing on the churches. It is creating more freedom for the individuals to make decisions, while others are trying to constrict freedom. The amount of time and money taken up by gay marriage is beyond crazy to me. Let them get married so that they can be viewed legally as one for things like healthcare, next-of-kin, etc type decisions. It doesn't affect anyone in a negative manner if we do this. If this went live today, no one here (unless you're a gay person that gets married) has their life changed.

Most gay couples, and many non-gay couples, couldn't give half a shit if the 'church recognizes' their marriage. It's about the legal ramifications around not being married that matters; if this happens, non-gay couples need to have their title to the government changed as well. It is about fairness and consistency.

The church doesn't have to recognize marriage. Call it something else if you like -- as long as it fills the legal roles of a typical marriage. Your argument should have 0 credibility or influence on this decision because the church, and their values, should not be weighed or factored in when it comes to making governmental decisions. No Christians are being forced to do anything, they're just trying to force others from having something.[/quote]

I never said anything about the church being forced to recognize gay marriage. I said instead of the government deciding what the definition of marriage should be, get the government out of marriage completely and leave it up to the religious institutions to decide. That's pretty much where the sense of marriage came from in the first place. The gay community could have their own ceremony, and the straight, religious (and non-religious as well) could have whatever ceremony they wanted to have. This has gone on long enough anyway. You can't force either side to give up their stance, and getting the government involved is a waste of time and taxpayer money.

Re: North Carolina passes same-sex marriage ban
 

[quote=skinsguy;928883] I said instead of the government deciding what the definition of marriage should be, get the government out of marriage completely and leave it up to the religious institutions to decide. [U]That's pretty much where the sense of marriage came from in the first place.[/U] .[/quote]

I suggest you read JR's post on the prior page about marriage, religion, and government.