Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1115389]"Given time" is the key. I don't think he could run any of those offenses tomorrow with any degree of success. How much time is reasonable at this point?[/quote]

Not to mention that all of those offenses already have QB's who performed better than RGIII did last season.

Which NFL team might actually pick him up and start him? I ask that question because Robert isn't going to get any better by sitting on the bench. Unless someone can think of a team that is dying to have him as their starter, he must succeed here.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=30gut;1115317]Playcalling:
-inefficient playcall relay method--from Jay to McVay to Griffin
-predictability/lack of disguise; giving away tendency based on formation e.g. Trips w/ TE iso=pass almost 100%, base personnel I-form is almost always a run etc
-inconsistent playcalling rhythm, didn't set things up-this could be because 2 different people (Jay/Sean) both call plays (Jay himself confirmed that both he and Sean calls plays)
-not having faith in the QB e.g. vs 49ers called 2 QB draws and a WR throwback
pass on 3rd down

Gameplan:
-not enough commitment to the run
-too much straight drop back passing
-not enough comeback/stop routes
-not enough play-action
-not enough roll-out passes
-not enough sprint/motion passes
-not getting the ball to Garcon

Coaching:
-impatience with Griffin as early as training camp
-creating/adding to an circus atmosphere with his post game rant
-not being in sync with Griffin to create a gameplan that made him comfortable
-not having a QB coach
-going with a rookie OC created a staff devoid of experience and feedback
-not giving Morgan Moses help vs 49ers when he was playing LT

I think all of the above Jay/staff related issues played a role in Griffin's struggles.[/quote]

This is very good. The not having a QB coach combined with McVay's first coordinator job meant nobody was teaching Griffin appropriately. That was a big mistake. If you know you have a QB that needs to transition from a spread / first-read kind of offense, it seems utterly stupid to do anything but throw all the teaching and training resources you can at him.

Hopefully Cavanaugh helps.

But 30 your other points about the shortcomings in the gameplan are apt, there just wasn't enough movement of the QB (meaning shift the pocket or launch point, not look to run). It showed that Jay and the coaches did not get up to speed fast enough to learn what Robert could and could not do. They learned the hard way, which doesn't point to a coach who's ahead of the curve. A coach who was ahead of the curve would have seen that in training camp and developed a plan.

I still think Jay is a mediocre head coach at very best.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

I hope Griffin plays well and claims the QB spot for years to come. He has the talent, that neither Kirk nor Colt has, to dominate in this league. But he's got a lot to work on both on and off the field. He needs to show he can and prove many coaches, execs and players who have lost faith in him wrong. No more excuses for him

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

Even if Robert Griffin woke up tomorrow with Joe Montana's brain and picked up all of the mental parts of the game, can he stay reasonably healthy? Has he made it healthy through a single season in the NFL yet?
Even the $18.4 million option for next year is ton of cap space tied up on a player that honestly has trouble staying on the field.
I also want Robert G. to succeed but I have a problem with that one year option.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;1115389]"Given time" is the key. I don't think he could run any of those offenses tomorrow with any degree of success...How much time is reasonable at this point.[/QUOTE]Then I wasn't clear in my post. [QUOTE=30gut;1115372]...I think Griffin would fit just fine in any number of offenses: Philly, Seattle, Carolina, 49ers (previous), Maimi, KC, Vikings and others given time.[/QUOTE]I meant I think he can play well in any of those offenses right now. Each of those offenses is already more catered to what he does well then Jay's offense last year.

I think he could learn the offenses more predicated upon rhythm timing like Arians, Colts, Saints, Dallas, Chargers etc. But it wouldn't be as instant transition in those offenses like it would with the offenses that have spread and zone-read elements.


[QUOTE]...the QB must still drop back, make & be patient with his reads, get his timing right, and feel pressure. [B][U]RGIII simply does not and has not ever demonstrated consistent ability in [I]any[/I] of those phases. [/U][/B]His only success has come in a limited offense where he was generally required to make one or two reads.[/QUOTE]I disagree almost completely with portion bolded and underlined above. For the sake of comparison, since he's on the same team I'm going to compare Griffin or Kirk. Would you be surprised to know that the only season Kirk was better then Griffin on 3rd down or in "pure drop back passing situations" (i.e. non-play action known passing situations) was this current year under Jay? I can pull up the stats if you want, but going back to 2012 or 2013 Griffin has been the better drop back passer. Many consider Kirk to be a potential starting caliber QB or at a minimum a superior 'drop back passer' to Griffin yet the only time he was better was in Jay's offense which was more geared towards a rhythm drop back passer then Griffin.

So when you say that Griffin can't drop back, make reads, feel pressure its a lot of hyperbole. When you say that Griffin can't do those things you make his rookie year into an impossible fluke and you liken his skillset to any dime a dozen read-option QBs that come out every year. Do you really think Griffin is no different then Terrell Pryor or Darron Thomas or Quincy Carter or Tyrod Taylor or Tim Tebow or Eric Crouch. If Griffin is as limited in skillset as you say and was able to win rookie of the year (in a statistically historic fashion btw) then why don't other teams do the same thing with type of QB that you describe? Those QBs are everywhere in college football.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

Saying that no one in the NFL would want him is rather stupid.

I'll tell you this right now, I would hate to have to face RG III twice a year playing for the Eagles. I might not like Chip Kelly but rg III is custom made for his offense and I would be shocked if he didn't end up there if he is flat out released next year. (I don't think it Wil happen as I still have faith/hope that he is going to be our guy for a long time).

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=Defensewins;1115444]Even if Robert Griffin woke up tomorrow with Joe Montana's brain and picked up all of the mental parts of the game, can he stay reasonably healthy? Has he made it healthy through a single season in the NFL yet?
Even the $18.4 million option for next year is ton of cap space tied up on a player that honestly has trouble staying on the field.
I also want Robert G. to succeed but I have a problem with that one year option.[/quote]

This is my issue, lets say he plays well. He is still probably gonna miss 4-6 games a year. I don't think you can ever succeed with that, because you'll need to pay a good backup. The roster will suffer.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=30gut;1115450]
So when you say that Griffin can't drop back, make reads, feel pressure its a lot of hyperbole. When you say that Griffin can't do those things you make his rookie year into an impossible fluke and you liken his skillset to any dime a dozen read-option QBs that come out every year. Do you really think Griffin is no different then Terrell Pryor or Darron Thomas or Quincy Carter or Tyrod Taylor or Tim Tebow or Eric Crouch. If Griffin is as limited in skillset as you say and was able to win rookie of the year (in a statistically historic fashion btw) then why don't other teams do the same thing with type of QB that you describe? Those QBs are everywhere in college football.[/quote]


I'm not the person you were replying to, but RGIII is much better than those guys cause he's actually a pretty accurate passer, and he's shown flashes of good things, but he's also shown consistent problems. once he starts to scramble (not boot or roll out, but scramble), the play is already over, he pulls his eyes off the field and the ball is basically never going to go farther than 8 yards at that point. that's something wilson or rodger etc (ie, good QBs) don't do. his instincts are just bad there (pretty consistently too). he also has shown very little skill in predicting/sensing the rush, which compounds the problem by causing him to take off too early. I mean, the guy pulls down the ball and runs a bunch in 7 on 7 drills... no one does that.

that's really the issue that's holding him back the most. (he can be inconsistent reading D's etc, but that's not as hard to fix as bad instincts, which are REALLY hard to change). If he gets amazing protection, that hides it, and maybe allows him time to try and get it fixed, but the odds are generally against it.

I'm all for giving him another shot, I'd much rather be wrong and have him killing teams left and right, it's just hard to see that happening after seeing basically no progress the last two years.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

Rich Tandler wrote this about RGIII's first day of Training Camp: "On Robert Griffin’s first pass he dropped back, hesitated a half beat, and threw sidearm and off target."

If Tandler was trying to make me nervous, it worked.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=30gut;1115450]Then I wasn't clear in my post. I meant I think he can play well in any of those offenses right now. Each of those offenses is already more catered to what he does well then Jay's offense last year. [/quote]

I would respectfully disagree. RGIII’s success came from an offense specifically designed to cut down his choices and allowed him to rely on his athleticism. To be clear, it’s not that I think RGIII is a Tebow, Carter or any of the other QB’s you mention. He clearly has some skills and when forced into a traditional role has performed as an average starter. As others noted, he has some downfield accuracy and arm strength that simply didn’t exist for Crouch or Pryor. Add that to his (formerly) freakish speed and he is not the dime-a-dozen college QB you think I am describing.

I agree with That Guy’s take that RGIII simply lacks pocket awareness on an instinctual level. Can I prove it with stats? No. Can I infer from watching? Yes. Other things I can infer: he holds the ball too long; he doesn’t feel the rush well; he doesn’t step up to avoid the rush; and, as TG said, once he [i]does[/i] feel the pressure, the eyes are no longer looking downfield.

2012 was not entirely a fluke, but, as we have seen, it was also not the norm. The offense that worked for him has not worked as a base offense for anyone else since then. While still used, the pistol and read-option as done by RGIII/Shanahan is more than a gimmick but less than a solid base from which to run an offense. While RGIII might be an average QB in some of the offenses you mention, and based on his performance over the past two years, I would suggest he is – at best – an average to below average QB even in “offenses that have spread and zone-read elements.”

To be clear, I like RGIII and am very hopeful that he succeeds here. I believe that, right now, he is a very limited QB with exceptional athleticism, arm strength and, potentially, downfield accuracy. Some of his limitations may be overcome if he can accept coaching. Not sure if others can.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1115489]Rich Tandler wrote this about RGIII's first day of Training Camp: "On Robert Griffin’s first pass he dropped back, hesitated a half beat, and threw sidearm and off target."

If Tandler was trying to make me nervous, it worked.[/quote]

If you ask which am I more excited about, RG3 as our QB this year or all the excellent pro style QBs coming out of college into the draft this year....its clearly the latter.

FYI, im gonna be extremely tough on RG3 this year, he has zero excuses...health, system, oline, etc. I will also have a low tolerance for RG3 apologists.

I have a funny feeling this ends bad.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1115411]I hope Griffin plays well and claims the QB spot for years to come. [B][I][U]He has the talent[/U][/I][/B], that neither Kirk nor Colt has, to dominate in this league. But he's got a lot to work on both on and off the field. He needs to show he can and prove many coaches, execs and players who have lost faith in him wrong. No more excuses for him[/quote]

I'd say he HAD the talent before he blew out his knee,I've havent seen much evidence since then to suggest he still has it:(

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;1115502]I would respectfully disagree. RGIII’s success came from an offense specifically designed to cut down his choices and allowed him to rely on his athleticism. To be clear, it’s not that I think RGIII is a Tebow, Carter or any of the other QB’s you mention. He clearly has some skills and when forced into a traditional role has performed as an average starter. As others noted, he has some downfield accuracy and arm strength that simply didn’t exist for Crouch or Pryor. Add that to his (formerly) freakish speed and he is not the dime-a-dozen college QB you think I am describing.

[B][I]I agree with That Guy’s take that RGIII simply lacks pocket awareness on an instinctual level. Can I prove it with stats? No. Can I infer from watching? Yes. Other things I can infer: he holds the ball too long; he doesn’t feel the rush well; he doesn’t step up to avoid the rush; and, as TG said, once he [i]does[/i] feel the pressure, the eyes are no longer looking downfield.[/I][/B]

2012 was not entirely a fluke, but, as we have seen, it was also not the norm. The offense that worked for him has not worked as a base offense for anyone else since then. While still used, the pistol and read-option as done by RGIII/Shanahan is more than a gimmick but less than a solid base from which to run an offense. While RGIII might be an average QB in some of the offenses you mention, and based on his performance over the past two years, I would suggest he is – at best – an average to below average QB even in “offenses that have spread and zone-read elements.”

To be clear, I like RGIII and am very hopeful that he succeeds here. I believe that, right now, he is a very limited QB with exceptional athleticism, arm strength and, potentially, downfield accuracy. Some of his limitations may be overcome if he can accept coaching. Not sure if others can.[/quote]

Agree with everything in this post,especially the highlighted part.That goes back to college,most if not all the scouting reports on RG3 saw problems with his pocket awareness.Unfortunately I dont think its something he can learn,its just instinct and you feel it.When have you ever seen Griff feel the blindside rusher coming at him and spin out of it or move out of the way?I would say never,Romo probably does it once or more a game,its just having a feel and Griff doesnt have it.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1115505]Agree with everything in this post,especially the highlighted part.That goes back to college,most if not all the scouting reports on RG3 saw problems with his pocket awareness.Unfortunately I dont think its something he can learn,its just instinct and you feel it.[B]When have you ever seen Griff feel the blindside rusher coming at him and spin out of it or move out of the way?[/B]I would say never,Romo probably does it once or more a game,its just having a feel and Griff doesnt have it.[/quote]

Exactly. His first instinct is to pull the ball down and run, or to back peddle. Not sure they can coach that out of him and we won't really be able to tell if he's improved until he has a real pass rush coming at him.

Brady, who's as slow as a turtle is probably better than anyone at it..feeling the rush and making a small step or two to buy more time. Romo is also really good at it as well.

Re: Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015
 

[quote=htownskinfan;1115505]Agree with everything in this post,especially the highlighted part.That goes back to college,most if not all the scouting reports on RG3 saw problems with his pocket awareness.Unfortunately I dont think its something he can learn,its just instinct and you feel it.When have you ever seen Griff feel the blindside rusher coming at him and spin out of it or move out of the way?I would say never,Romo probably does it once or more a game,its just having a feel and Griff doesnt have it.[/quote]

I also think he lacks pocket awareness. And what a crying shame that is because if he felt the rush better he could use his athleticism and speed to turn broken plays into big plays for his team. When he was drafted, I thought he would be amazing as a scrambler.